Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Kobe for finals MVP...
teecee:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:57:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:30:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:23:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:05:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM ---What you guys don't understand is if he has a capable supporting cast,Kobe finds ways to win, no matter what. That's his greatness...If his shot is not falling, his defense is spectacular, and Kobe grabbed 15 boards last night, knowing that every team who had won the rebounding battle has won the game. People who are saying Artest or Gasol or any one of the supporting players meant as much to this title run as Kobe are really tryna downplay the greatness of the team leader...You take Kobe out of that series, and it changes the whole outcomes, 100%...you take any other player out, either team, and there would still be competition. Lakers played amazing, the supporting players stepped up, but there is clearly an incredible player driving our team, and some of you need to appreciate being spoiled with the chance to watch such greatness unfold before your eyes.
--- End quote ---
Like I said in this thread, and before, Kobe was Clearly the best player in this series...no other player was consistent. Kobe, in the biggest game maybe of his career, grabbed a shitload of rebounds and put forth a great effort. HOWEVER, he shot 25 percent...pretty bad for a game 7 of the NBA finals, right?
I respect Kobe for doing what he had to do to win the title; he DID miss some big shots in the playoffs, including two game winners where Gasol and Artest bailed him about, but that is what TEAMS are made of. If anything, Kobe stans are straight realizing how importand Gasol and Artest and Fisher are...Gasol was a n absolute beast in Lakers wins in the series.
I don't think Kobe played great last night- he himself said he was pressing too much, maybe a little nervous, and was therefore off. He played well enough to win...which makes him the best player by far in the series, and by far the most consitent. I have no problem with even calling him the best player in the game...what this series does do, however, is kind of remove Kobe from the GOAT talks, at least for a while. He just was not dominate, especially in moments during the playoffs where you expected him to be.
I MEAN, consistenly, from game to game...surely, you get that, right? The Lakers could be straight winning series 4 straight with their talent, like the Lakers in 2001. Ya dig?
NIK, I asked you the question before...WHAT DOES KOBE NEED TO DO, IN YOUR EYES, TO BE CONSIDERED BETTER THAN MJ?
--- End quote ---
You realize most of those shots Kobe took were extremely difficult shots, right? Celtics were smothering him with all their hearts, ALWAYS throwing 2 or 3 guys on him at once. he couldnt get ANY easy opportunities...It was the most amazing defense I have ever seen. But the offense was horrible BOTH WAYS...because, honestly, that was one of the greatest defensive efforts I've ever seen, from both teams. we shot 32% AS A TEAM, and still won..We did it on the defense and glass, and that doesn't get as appreciated as pretty offense, but it's just as big, especially in a grind it out game like that... Kobe has already matched or surpassed Jordan from a talent standpoint, in my eyes. what it will take for him to be considered GREATER would be more titles on the resume. if he takes this team to 2 or 3 more titles, it would be stupid not to put him up there...he's already in the discussion, no doubt, as Fisher said last night...but we'll really be able to judge once he reaches that ceiling, which is not any time soon. 8)
--- End quote ---
It was great defense by both teams, but also some horrible shots by both at times. And NIK, i do NOT give a FUCK about talent...its all about what you do on the court. There are a alot of smart people in the world who aren't as accomplished as others...lots of great tathletes who don't make it, etc
II'm saying, what does Kobe need to accomplish? What if the Lakers win two more titles, and Kobe gets two more MVP's? Then, he would likely have 4 finals mvp's to Jordan's 6, way less scoring titles, lless MVP's, lower averages in EVERYTHING, but one more title? Is Kobe then better? If so, Is Bill Russell better than Kobe?!
--- End quote ---
Look, stats don't mean shit...LeBron James will probably end his career breaking most of Jordan's scoring records, and will definitely break his rebounding and assists records...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. It seems as if Steve Nash has a chance at ending his career with more MVP awards than Kobe...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. In their prime, on the basketball court, Kobe has every ability Jordan did and then some...Sure, Kobe was brought into the league under different circumstances than Jordan, thus giving him less of a chance to capture all those scoring titles and early MVP awards...That's because he started out as a student of the game, and he played behind people and worked his way up, unlike Jordan, who was handed the Bulls franchise from day one...but that is part of Kobe's greatness...The fact that he had to climb that ladder is what made him peak so hard. Harder than anyone. Now, all he needs is those titles...that's what the great players play this game for. If he can take this team to a couple more titles, he's there. Fuck all the awards, the scoring titles, all that shit...doesn't mean shit...what can the player do for the team?...and clearly, Kobe is currently doing for the Lakers what Magic did for the Lakers in the 80s, and what Jordan did for the Bulls in the 90s...it's spectacular, and to try and take away from that is pretty stupid...PeACe
--- End quote ---
You are right, MJ and Kobe came into the league in different sistuations...Kobe was put on a team with SHAQ, the most dominant player at the time. MJ, like other top draftpicks, were put on shit teams and had to BE THE MAN FROM THE BEGINNING< WITHOUT THE GRACE PERIOD of throwing up airballs in the playoffs.
What, do you think if Kobe was put on a team as bad as the Bulls were at the beginining of his career, that he would have 5 chips right now?!
teecee:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:57:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:30:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:23:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:05:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM ---What you guys don't understand is if he has a capable supporting cast,Kobe finds ways to win, no matter what. That's his greatness...If his shot is not falling, his defense is spectacular, and Kobe grabbed 15 boards last night, knowing that every team who had won the rebounding battle has won the game. People who are saying Artest or Gasol or any one of the supporting players meant as much to this title run as Kobe are really tryna downplay the greatness of the team leader...You take Kobe out of that series, and it changes the whole outcomes, 100%...you take any other player out, either team, and there would still be competition. Lakers played amazing, the supporting players stepped up, but there is clearly an incredible player driving our team, and some of you need to appreciate being spoiled with the chance to watch such greatness unfold before your eyes.
--- End quote ---
Like I said in this thread, and before, Kobe was Clearly the best player in this series...no other player was consistent. Kobe, in the biggest game maybe of his career, grabbed a shitload of rebounds and put forth a great effort. HOWEVER, he shot 25 percent...pretty bad for a game 7 of the NBA finals, right?
I respect Kobe for doing what he had to do to win the title; he DID miss some big shots in the playoffs, including two game winners where Gasol and Artest bailed him about, but that is what TEAMS are made of. If anything, Kobe stans are straight realizing how importand Gasol and Artest and Fisher are...Gasol was a n absolute beast in Lakers wins in the series.
I don't think Kobe played great last night- he himself said he was pressing too much, maybe a little nervous, and was therefore off. He played well enough to win...which makes him the best player by far in the series, and by far the most consitent. I have no problem with even calling him the best player in the game...what this series does do, however, is kind of remove Kobe from the GOAT talks, at least for a while. He just was not dominate, especially in moments during the playoffs where you expected him to be.
I MEAN, consistenly, from game to game...surely, you get that, right? The Lakers could be straight winning series 4 straight with their talent, like the Lakers in 2001. Ya dig?
NIK, I asked you the question before...WHAT DOES KOBE NEED TO DO, IN YOUR EYES, TO BE CONSIDERED BETTER THAN MJ?
--- End quote ---
You realize most of those shots Kobe took were extremely difficult shots, right? Celtics were smothering him with all their hearts, ALWAYS throwing 2 or 3 guys on him at once. he couldnt get ANY easy opportunities...It was the most amazing defense I have ever seen. But the offense was horrible BOTH WAYS...because, honestly, that was one of the greatest defensive efforts I've ever seen, from both teams. we shot 32% AS A TEAM, and still won..We did it on the defense and glass, and that doesn't get as appreciated as pretty offense, but it's just as big, especially in a grind it out game like that... Kobe has already matched or surpassed Jordan from a talent standpoint, in my eyes. what it will take for him to be considered GREATER would be more titles on the resume. if he takes this team to 2 or 3 more titles, it would be stupid not to put him up there...he's already in the discussion, no doubt, as Fisher said last night...but we'll really be able to judge once he reaches that ceiling, which is not any time soon. 8)
--- End quote ---
It was great defense by both teams, but also some horrible shots by both at times. And NIK, i do NOT give a FUCK about talent...its all about what you do on the court. There are a alot of smart people in the world who aren't as accomplished as others...lots of great tathletes who don't make it, etc
II'm saying, what does Kobe need to accomplish? What if the Lakers win two more titles, and Kobe gets two more MVP's? Then, he would likely have 4 finals mvp's to Jordan's 6, way less scoring titles, lless MVP's, lower averages in EVERYTHING, but one more title? Is Kobe then better? If so, Is Bill Russell better than Kobe?!
--- End quote ---
Look, stats don't mean shit...LeBron James will probably end his career breaking most of Jordan's scoring records, and will definitely break his rebounding and assists records...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. It seems as if Steve Nash has a chance at ending his career with more MVP awards than Kobe...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. In their prime, on the basketball court, Kobe has every ability Jordan did and then some...Sure, Kobe was brought into the league under different circumstances than Jordan, thus giving him less of a chance to capture all those scoring titles and early MVP awards...That's because he started out as a student of the game, and he played behind people and worked his way up, unlike Jordan, who was handed the Bulls franchise from day one...but that is part of Kobe's greatness...The fact that he had to climb that ladder is what made him peak so hard. Harder than anyone. Now, all he needs is those titles...that's what the great players play this game for. If he can take this team to a couple more titles, he's there. Fuck all the awards, the scoring titles, all that shit...doesn't mean shit...what can the player do for the team?...and clearly, Kobe is currently doing for the Lakers what Magic did for the Lakers in the 80s, and what Jordan did for the Bulls in the 90s...it's spectacular, and to try and take away from that is pretty stupid...PeACe
--- End quote ---
So stats only mattered when Kobe scored 81 points against a shit team, or when he averaged 35- you've never used those as a basis for Kobe being the best scorer, or the MVP that year?
Sccit:
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 02:00:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:57:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:30:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:23:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:05:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM ---What you guys don't understand is if he has a capable supporting cast,Kobe finds ways to win, no matter what. That's his greatness...If his shot is not falling, his defense is spectacular, and Kobe grabbed 15 boards last night, knowing that every team who had won the rebounding battle has won the game. People who are saying Artest or Gasol or any one of the supporting players meant as much to this title run as Kobe are really tryna downplay the greatness of the team leader...You take Kobe out of that series, and it changes the whole outcomes, 100%...you take any other player out, either team, and there would still be competition. Lakers played amazing, the supporting players stepped up, but there is clearly an incredible player driving our team, and some of you need to appreciate being spoiled with the chance to watch such greatness unfold before your eyes.
--- End quote ---
Like I said in this thread, and before, Kobe was Clearly the best player in this series...no other player was consistent. Kobe, in the biggest game maybe of his career, grabbed a shitload of rebounds and put forth a great effort. HOWEVER, he shot 25 percent...pretty bad for a game 7 of the NBA finals, right?
I respect Kobe for doing what he had to do to win the title; he DID miss some big shots in the playoffs, including two game winners where Gasol and Artest bailed him about, but that is what TEAMS are made of. If anything, Kobe stans are straight realizing how importand Gasol and Artest and Fisher are...Gasol was a n absolute beast in Lakers wins in the series.
I don't think Kobe played great last night- he himself said he was pressing too much, maybe a little nervous, and was therefore off. He played well enough to win...which makes him the best player by far in the series, and by far the most consitent. I have no problem with even calling him the best player in the game...what this series does do, however, is kind of remove Kobe from the GOAT talks, at least for a while. He just was not dominate, especially in moments during the playoffs where you expected him to be.
I MEAN, consistenly, from game to game...surely, you get that, right? The Lakers could be straight winning series 4 straight with their talent, like the Lakers in 2001. Ya dig?
NIK, I asked you the question before...WHAT DOES KOBE NEED TO DO, IN YOUR EYES, TO BE CONSIDERED BETTER THAN MJ?
--- End quote ---
You realize most of those shots Kobe took were extremely difficult shots, right? Celtics were smothering him with all their hearts, ALWAYS throwing 2 or 3 guys on him at once. he couldnt get ANY easy opportunities...It was the most amazing defense I have ever seen. But the offense was horrible BOTH WAYS...because, honestly, that was one of the greatest defensive efforts I've ever seen, from both teams. we shot 32% AS A TEAM, and still won..We did it on the defense and glass, and that doesn't get as appreciated as pretty offense, but it's just as big, especially in a grind it out game like that... Kobe has already matched or surpassed Jordan from a talent standpoint, in my eyes. what it will take for him to be considered GREATER would be more titles on the resume. if he takes this team to 2 or 3 more titles, it would be stupid not to put him up there...he's already in the discussion, no doubt, as Fisher said last night...but we'll really be able to judge once he reaches that ceiling, which is not any time soon. 8)
--- End quote ---
It was great defense by both teams, but also some horrible shots by both at times. And NIK, i do NOT give a FUCK about talent...its all about what you do on the court. There are a alot of smart people in the world who aren't as accomplished as others...lots of great tathletes who don't make it, etc
II'm saying, what does Kobe need to accomplish? What if the Lakers win two more titles, and Kobe gets two more MVP's? Then, he would likely have 4 finals mvp's to Jordan's 6, way less scoring titles, lless MVP's, lower averages in EVERYTHING, but one more title? Is Kobe then better? If so, Is Bill Russell better than Kobe?!
--- End quote ---
Look, stats don't mean shit...LeBron James will probably end his career breaking most of Jordan's scoring records, and will definitely break his rebounding and assists records...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. It seems as if Steve Nash has a chance at ending his career with more MVP awards than Kobe...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. In their prime, on the basketball court, Kobe has every ability Jordan did and then some...Sure, Kobe was brought into the league under different circumstances than Jordan, thus giving him less of a chance to capture all those scoring titles and early MVP awards...That's because he started out as a student of the game, and he played behind people and worked his way up, unlike Jordan, who was handed the Bulls franchise from day one...but that is part of Kobe's greatness...The fact that he had to climb that ladder is what made him peak so hard. Harder than anyone. Now, all he needs is those titles...that's what the great players play this game for. If he can take this team to a couple more titles, he's there. Fuck all the awards, the scoring titles, all that shit...doesn't mean shit...what can the player do for the team?...and clearly, Kobe is currently doing for the Lakers what Magic did for the Lakers in the 80s, and what Jordan did for the Bulls in the 90s...it's spectacular, and to try and take away from that is pretty stupid...PeACe
--- End quote ---
You are right, MJ and Kobe came into the league in different sistuations...Kobe was put on a team with SHAQ, the most dominant player at the time. MJ, like other top draftpicks, were put on shit teams and had to BE THE MAN FROM THE BEGINNING< WITHOUT THE GRACE PERIOD of throwing up airballs in the playoffs.
What, do you think if Kobe was put on a team as bad as the Bulls were at the beginining of his career, that he would have 5 chips right now?!
--- End quote ---
If Kobe had the love and support MJ had from day 1, the possibilities are really endless, to tell you the truth...LOL
Sccit:
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 02:05:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:57:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:30:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 01:23:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 01:05:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM ---What you guys don't understand is if he has a capable supporting cast,Kobe finds ways to win, no matter what. That's his greatness...If his shot is not falling, his defense is spectacular, and Kobe grabbed 15 boards last night, knowing that every team who had won the rebounding battle has won the game. People who are saying Artest or Gasol or any one of the supporting players meant as much to this title run as Kobe are really tryna downplay the greatness of the team leader...You take Kobe out of that series, and it changes the whole outcomes, 100%...you take any other player out, either team, and there would still be competition. Lakers played amazing, the supporting players stepped up, but there is clearly an incredible player driving our team, and some of you need to appreciate being spoiled with the chance to watch such greatness unfold before your eyes.
--- End quote ---
Like I said in this thread, and before, Kobe was Clearly the best player in this series...no other player was consistent. Kobe, in the biggest game maybe of his career, grabbed a shitload of rebounds and put forth a great effort. HOWEVER, he shot 25 percent...pretty bad for a game 7 of the NBA finals, right?
I respect Kobe for doing what he had to do to win the title; he DID miss some big shots in the playoffs, including two game winners where Gasol and Artest bailed him about, but that is what TEAMS are made of. If anything, Kobe stans are straight realizing how importand Gasol and Artest and Fisher are...Gasol was a n absolute beast in Lakers wins in the series.
I don't think Kobe played great last night- he himself said he was pressing too much, maybe a little nervous, and was therefore off. He played well enough to win...which makes him the best player by far in the series, and by far the most consitent. I have no problem with even calling him the best player in the game...what this series does do, however, is kind of remove Kobe from the GOAT talks, at least for a while. He just was not dominate, especially in moments during the playoffs where you expected him to be.
I MEAN, consistenly, from game to game...surely, you get that, right? The Lakers could be straight winning series 4 straight with their talent, like the Lakers in 2001. Ya dig?
NIK, I asked you the question before...WHAT DOES KOBE NEED TO DO, IN YOUR EYES, TO BE CONSIDERED BETTER THAN MJ?
--- End quote ---
You realize most of those shots Kobe took were extremely difficult shots, right? Celtics were smothering him with all their hearts, ALWAYS throwing 2 or 3 guys on him at once. he couldnt get ANY easy opportunities...It was the most amazing defense I have ever seen. But the offense was horrible BOTH WAYS...because, honestly, that was one of the greatest defensive efforts I've ever seen, from both teams. we shot 32% AS A TEAM, and still won..We did it on the defense and glass, and that doesn't get as appreciated as pretty offense, but it's just as big, especially in a grind it out game like that... Kobe has already matched or surpassed Jordan from a talent standpoint, in my eyes. what it will take for him to be considered GREATER would be more titles on the resume. if he takes this team to 2 or 3 more titles, it would be stupid not to put him up there...he's already in the discussion, no doubt, as Fisher said last night...but we'll really be able to judge once he reaches that ceiling, which is not any time soon. 8)
--- End quote ---
It was great defense by both teams, but also some horrible shots by both at times. And NIK, i do NOT give a FUCK about talent...its all about what you do on the court. There are a alot of smart people in the world who aren't as accomplished as others...lots of great tathletes who don't make it, etc
II'm saying, what does Kobe need to accomplish? What if the Lakers win two more titles, and Kobe gets two more MVP's? Then, he would likely have 4 finals mvp's to Jordan's 6, way less scoring titles, lless MVP's, lower averages in EVERYTHING, but one more title? Is Kobe then better? If so, Is Bill Russell better than Kobe?!
--- End quote ---
Look, stats don't mean shit...LeBron James will probably end his career breaking most of Jordan's scoring records, and will definitely break his rebounding and assists records...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. It seems as if Steve Nash has a chance at ending his career with more MVP awards than Kobe...THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER PLAYER. In their prime, on the basketball court, Kobe has every ability Jordan did and then some...Sure, Kobe was brought into the league under different circumstances than Jordan, thus giving him less of a chance to capture all those scoring titles and early MVP awards...That's because he started out as a student of the game, and he played behind people and worked his way up, unlike Jordan, who was handed the Bulls franchise from day one...but that is part of Kobe's greatness...The fact that he had to climb that ladder is what made him peak so hard. Harder than anyone. Now, all he needs is those titles...that's what the great players play this game for. If he can take this team to a couple more titles, he's there. Fuck all the awards, the scoring titles, all that shit...doesn't mean shit...what can the player do for the team?...and clearly, Kobe is currently doing for the Lakers what Magic did for the Lakers in the 80s, and what Jordan did for the Bulls in the 90s...it's spectacular, and to try and take away from that is pretty stupid...PeACe
--- End quote ---
So stats only mattered when Kobe scored 81 points against a shit team, or when he averaged 35- you've never used those as a basis for Kobe being the best scorer, or the MVP that year?
--- End quote ---
thats not what makes Kobe's the best player, no...
Chamillitary Click:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on June 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM ---What you guys don't understand is if he has a capable supporting cast,Kobe finds ways to win, no matter what. That's his greatness...If his shot is not falling, his defense is spectacular, and Kobe grabbed 15 boards last night, knowing that every team who had won the rebounding battle has won the game. People who are saying Artest or Gasol or any one of the supporting players meant as much to this title run as Kobe are really tryna downplay the greatness of the team leader...You take Kobe out of that series, and it changes the whole outcomes, 100%...you take any other player out, either team, and there would still be competition. Lakers played amazing, the supporting players stepped up, but there is clearly an incredible player driving our team, and some of you need to appreciate being spoiled with the chance to watch such greatness unfold before your eyes.
--- End quote ---
Oh, so the one game Kendrick Perkins is out & the Lakers (as a team) grab a ridiculous amount of offensive rebounds & Kobe got in on that, that's not coincidental at all? :D
That's just "Kobe stepping up". :D
He had the worst imaginable game offensively after I can quote you 40 million times "he's the best scorer in Basketball history" & he's "so clutch" & "Kobe would never come up flat like LeBron in a game like that" & was LUCKY that Gasol & Artest came to play on both sides of the ball or else we would really be shitting on Kobe.
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 12:24:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on June 18, 2010, 11:46:59 AM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on June 18, 2010, 10:54:08 AM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on June 18, 2010, 09:53:10 AM ---They should of given the award to multiple people lol.
It's honestly a joke to give Kobe all the credit for what Gasol & Artest did throughout the series; especially in the deciding Game 7.
Kobe reffered to his teammates as his "supporting cast". :D
--- End quote ---
Lebron calls his teammates his supporting cast as well.
--- End quote ---
Deservingly so lol.
They are a supporting cast; Gasol, Artest & Odom are the reason why the Lakers won.
Sure, Kobe is the leader, Kobe is the best, they couldn't do it without Kobe; but likewise they couldn't do it without any of the people I named either.
They are a team, plain & simple; Kobe is as much Gasol's "supporting cast" as Gasol is part of Kobe's "supporting cast".
--- End quote ---
I am in no way a Kobe fan, but he IS the most important player on that team. Having said that, throughout the playtoffs, the rest of the team has had some biug moments, no ibgger than Artests and Gasol's game winners in the first and third round, and their play last night.
Whaty is scary is that team is so incredibly talented...what will happen if they learn to play cionsistently, as a team?
--- End quote ---
I'm not denying Kobe is the best, but he gets credit like he makes Gasol & he is the reason Artest came up big in Game 7; acting as if it could of been anybody in the world & they would of gotten the job done; don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but act as if he had the Cavs squad (minus LeBron) he could of had the same result.
It's not true, Gasol is arguably the best big man in the West (offensively), Artest is an elite defender & Odom would be the 2nd or 3rd best player on just about every other team in the league & he's coming off the bench; Derek Fisher is almost as big a leader as Kobe for them & without that core of guys, Kobe couldn't get it done.
He's blessed to be in the situation he's in; people give Kobe too much credit like he's the soul reason they win, he's the biggest piece, but then again, he's just a piece.
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