Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
YEA..... Lebron Is Much Better
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on August 13, 2010, 03:34:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on August 13, 2010, 11:19:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on August 11, 2010, 03:15:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on August 11, 2010, 09:09:52 AM ---=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
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Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
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lol Jordan played in an era where the defenses were actually better for the most part lol. The thing is, most of those defenses were in his own conference. So his defensive hurdles were in the playoffs, not the finals. Those Knicks teams he played against would hurt this Celtics team...who were just as good as the Lakers this last year. Oakley, Mason, Ewing lol. Cmon. The rules over the years have been changed to HELP offense, we all know that. Its the same in damn near every sport since offense gets ratings. The league doesnt like to do too much to give us more defensive battles, they want 120-119 games. The league likes having teams play zone defense because it forces offenses to have better ball movement to score, and more three pointers. More three point shooting leads to more fast breaks, and higher scores. The league doesnt want a ton of scoring in the paint unless its dunk. This is why we see less and less "back to the basket" bigmen and more faceup guys. The zone makes playing with your back to the basket as a bigman more difficult. Basically, the zones help create a more uptempo game and benefit perimeter guys...and we all know the league LOVES to promote perimeter guys.
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How are the Celtics as good as the Lakers when the Lakers won? LOL. you're something else...Jordan won rings over some great defensive teams, huh? the 90's Lakers with Divac as the anchor at center, amazing! The Phoenix Suns of the 90s, damn, who's ever faced defense like that? and lets not forget the Jazz and Sonics, holy shit, straight defensive oriented teams with amazing perimeter players to stop Jordan...LOL. Really, the toughest defense Jordan has ever faced was the Pistons of the 80s, and he wasnt able to beat them until they started aging. Offense is not at an all-time high, because winning teams are still always the ones who can play great defense...there will never be another player who averages 50 points for a season or a tripple-double, because offense is not the same as it used to be with all the youth, talent, and athleticism that EVERY team is stacked with nowadays. players, on average, are way more athletic nowadays, which is what forced the rule changes...zone defense also makes it a lot easier to stop players from going to the paint. that probably woulda been one of the main tactics used on Jordan, since his shot wasn't always so on-point and the zone gives up jumpshots. and again, nobody wants to acknowledge that Jordan's biggest rival on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler.......then again, I'm speakin to someone who still thinks "Lebron>Kobe" :-X
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This years finals came down strictly to who had homecourt advantage. Whoever did, would have won the series. And if Perkins wasnt out, I (and many) think the Celtics would have taken game 7. They were two evenly matched teams.
And read my post again. I said the dominant defenses Jordan had to face were in the Eastern Conference PLAYOFFS, not the finals. Most of the dominant defensive teams of that era were in the East. Not the West. The Knicks teams he was beating would make this current Celtics team look soft. And yeah no one is gonna average 50 points/game...but no one was in Jordans era either lol. You are all over the place with your argument. What does averaging 50/game have to do with Jordan? Bottom line is Jordan did more, and was more efficient against better defenses and rules that werent so geared to helping out overall offense in a game. Players get more athletic as time goes on...but typically not a HUGE difference in a matter of just 10-15 years lol. Again, youre comparing Kobe to Jordan as if Jordan played in the 50's. And you have to be completely out of your mind if you think the NBA made the change to allowing zone defense...in order to KEEP slashers from getting into the paint lol. They wanted to speed the game up, and the zone can do that. Like I said, it forces teams to shoot a lot of outside jumpers which creates more fastbreaks...and increases the tempo of the games. This is good for your athletic players (like Kobe). So he has an advantage now that he wouldnt have had if he played in the mid 90's. Again, the main players the zone is hurting are back to the basket bigmen. It is much easier to double team out of a zone and you dont have to worry about the illegal defense. Hurting bigs in turn HELPS perimeter offensive players.
And what do u mean Jordans biggest rival? They werent rivals. Jordan didnt have ANY real rivals on an individual level because he was head and shoulders above anyone in the league. Including Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Payton, Wilkins, etc...etc. Hell even Magic, Bird and Isaiah. You cant have a rivalry when no one is on your level. His rivalries were with TEAMS. The Knicks were his rivals. The Cavs were his rivals. Etc. Kobe has a rivalry with LeBron (not a real rivalry, just a media/fan created rivalry) because there is a debate as to which perimeter player is better.
Sccit:
^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
teecee:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on August 18, 2010, 06:01:57 PM ---^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
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If Bynum wasn't injured in 2008, the Lakers woulda had a chance, but really, didn't they get beat by 46 or some shit, and also blow a huge lead in another game? Bynu ain't THAT good.
As for this year, Game 7 woulda been VERY interesting if Perkins played, don't you think?
NIK: by ABOVE MJ, do you mean better, or just more titles? Cuz Russell has more titles, and he isn't "above" Jordan...
Sccit:
--- Quote from: teecee on August 19, 2010, 08:23:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on August 18, 2010, 06:01:57 PM ---^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
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If Bynum wasn't injured in 2008, the Lakers woulda had a chance, but really, didn't they get beat by 46 or some shit, and also blow a huge lead in another game? Bynu ain't THAT good.
As for this year, Game 7 woulda been VERY interesting if Perkins played, don't you think?
NIK: by ABOVE MJ, do you mean better, or just more titles? Cuz Russell has more titles, and he isn't "above" Jordan...
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I already think that Kobe has at least reached Jordan's level in terms of skill and ability...so when he gets 7 titles, in my eyes, he will be above Jordan in terms of skill, ability AND accomplishments, which would put him above Jordan in general. Lakers woulda not blown that 24 lpoint ead in Game 4 of the '08 Finals with Bynum there, and woulda followed that game up with an easy victory in Game 5 had Bynum AND Ariza not been injrued...that's just as legit as saying Boston woulda won with Perkins...Hoenstly, though, my whole point was that we can sit here and play the "what if" game all day, but it's simply not worth it...
teecee:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on August 19, 2010, 12:51:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: teecee on August 19, 2010, 08:23:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on August 18, 2010, 06:01:57 PM ---^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
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If Bynum wasn't injured in 2008, the Lakers woulda had a chance, but really, didn't they get beat by 46 or some shit, and also blow a huge lead in another game? Bynu ain't THAT good.
As for this year, Game 7 woulda been VERY interesting if Perkins played, don't you think?
NIK: by ABOVE MJ, do you mean better, or just more titles? Cuz Russell has more titles, and he isn't "above" Jordan...
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I already think that Kobe has at least reached Jordan's level in terms of skill and ability...so when he gets 7 titles, in my eyes, he will be above Jordan in terms of skill, ability AND accomplishments, which would put him above Jordan in general. Lakers woulda not blown that 24 lpoint ead in Game 4 of the '08 Finals with Bynum there, and woulda followed that game up with an easy victory in Game 5 had Bynum AND Ariza not been injrued...that's just as legit as saying Boston woulda won with Perkins...Hoenstly, though, my whole point was that we can sit here and play the "what if" game all day, but it's simply not worth it...
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IS skill and ability all that matters? What about results?!!! 7 titles will put Kobe above MJ in terms of accomplishments? Fine, but then, is Kobe still chasing Russell? Cuz we both know, aside from Kobe's 81 point game, Mamba has nothing on Jordan individually, and will still be trailing him 3 playoff MVP's.
Plus, has Kobe had a GREAT finals yet? How many GREAT finals games has he had?
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