Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
YEA..... Lebron Is Much Better
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:09:48 PM ---You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
--- End quote ---
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
13th Duke:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on July 30, 2010, 06:23:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:09:48 PM ---You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
--- End quote ---
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
--- End quote ---
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:36:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on July 30, 2010, 06:23:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:09:48 PM ---You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
--- End quote ---
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
--- End quote ---
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
--- End quote ---
See heres the thing. There is no denying that as far as a career goes, Lebron has a lot of work to do still. But as far as on the court, it would take a very ridiculous person to say that these two arent neck and neck. I personally think Lebron is the better all around player. But obviously Kobe has had the better all around career so far. Its just funny to me when Kobestans try to claim Kobe is better and it isnt even close, when Lebron is the league MVP lol. All year long Lebron was being called the best player in the world by virtually everyone, media included. Analysts...included. He was called that for his skills on the court. The minute the LAKERS won the title, Kobe fans thought it now made sense to say Kobe is lightyears ahead of Lebron on the court lol. As if the LAKERS winning a title somehow changed Kobe's skill level on the court as a player. It made his career better. Not HIM personally.
And the reason I bring up stats...is because stats DO matter. Are they absolutely everything? No. But clearly they matter or we wouldnt keep track of them. Kobestans arguments have always been that he is better in the clutch than Lebron. Truth is, he isnt. Thats a black and white argument. If you had player A and player B. And player B during "clutch" minutes had more game winning shots, shoots a better percentage from the field, had more game winning assists, has more rebounds, more assists period..etc...etc...what is the argument for player A being a better clutch performer??
.:DaYg0sTyLz:.:
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:36:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on July 30, 2010, 06:23:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:09:48 PM ---You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
--- End quote ---
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
--- End quote ---
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
--- End quote ---
Oh, and no I didnt like the whole hour long sideshow to announce where Lebron was going either. I dont fault him for leaving though. I dont even fault him for not informing the team beforehand. None of us know what was going on there. And clearly, by Dan Gilberts actions, something could have been going on behind closed doors. The Cavs owner, in his attempt to make Lebron look bad, really made HIMself look like a classless piece of shit. So who knows what went on between him and Lebron.
13th Duke:
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on July 30, 2010, 06:56:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:36:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: .:DaYg0sTyLz:. on July 30, 2010, 06:23:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: 13th Duke on July 30, 2010, 06:09:48 PM ---You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
--- End quote ---
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
--- End quote ---
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
--- End quote ---
Oh, and no I didnt like the whole hour long sideshow to announce where Lebron was going either. I dont fault him for leaving though. I dont even fault him for not informing the team beforehand. None of us know what was going on there. And clearly, by Dan Gilberts actions, something could have been going on behind closed doors. The Cavs owner, in his attempt to make Lebron look bad, really made HIMself look like a classless piece of shit. So who knows what went on between him and Lebron.
--- End quote ---
Yeah what Dan Gilbert did was very stupid, and made his team look bad, but it doesn't excuse Lebron. He exploited his team and embarrassed them publicly. He showed absolutely no remorse or even respect for the franchise of the Cavs. I have no issue with him leaving, players switch teams all the time, its part of the game, but no-one else has gone out of their way to pretty much take the piss out of a team like he did. He's such a selfish man and selfish player that he didn't realise his own actions would be nothing more than a massive spit in the face to the team who gave him 7 years of their lives to him, and completely trusted him to lead everything at their own risk.
Also, with regards to your point on Lebron, he deserved the MVP in the regular season where he dominated most games with aplomb, but was he the Playoffs MVP? Definitely not....and isn't that really when it matters? For example, Boston did it the right way in saving their best for the playoffs and hitting their peak at the right time. Maybe Lebron needs to learn how to step it up a gear in the important games.
To be fair, he probably won't need to really, as D. Wade will be beside him the whole way.
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