Crooked I - Today's MCs Can't Even Last A Minute With The Older MCs

[Chamillitary Click]

^Today's artists are developing newer things; but the second they do, everybody runs, points fingers & says "That's so wack, Tupac is turning over in his grave".

Let's face it, "hood life" or "thug life" or whatever you want to call it, isn't an unlimited, infinite topic; eventually, everything that needed to have been said, will have been said & then all you got is people repeating themselves.

So basically, if you're a rapper today you're one of two things;

1. Somebody trying to have a unique sound & it's "wack".
2. Somebody trying to duplicate old records from the 90's & it's either "wack" or "blah, whatever; it's not as good as the 90's".

If you look into lists of "The Greatest Albums of All-Time", the last album to consistantly show up on people lists is "The Marshall Mathers LP"; a majority of people put that in their Top 10 & if it doesn't make the Top 10, it gets high recognition as a undeniable classic.

So what happened after that release? Was there some private meeting among rap fans saying "Alright, no more classics"; because if you look at it, impact is IMPOSSIBLE to acheieve 2010, so basically there can never be another classic again lol.

All you hear is "great album" or "oh, it's a personal classic, but I understand this isn't allowed to be in the discussion of 'greatest albums', I just like it a lot".

I'm not denying that better albums came out in the 90's, I'm not saying Nas/Pac/Cube/Wu/etc. in their 90's prime isn't better than almost anyone from today; just I don't like how ANY album from today is automatically second to 90's albums, just because of "impact".

Who should get more credit, the guy who invented the wheel, or a guy today who comes up with the latest brand of tires?

On the subject of innovation, I think there are plenty of areas that haven't been explored within hip hop. I just think most emcees feel safer following the status quo. Also the Marshal Mathers LP isn't the last album to be considered classic. The College Dropout, Speakerboxx/The Love Below, Get Rich or Die Tryin, etc. The past few years? Sure. Hip Hop album sales have decreases drastically and sales are one of the signs of impact. Basically if the album doesn't make an impact, it can't really  be a classic.

Credit is one thing, to say "this > that" because of impact is another.

To use your analogy, today's wheel > caveman wheel; the cavemen will always get the credit, but today's wheel still rolls as well & better.

The College Dropout & Get Rich or Die Tryin' are two classic albums, but I can't think of a time where somebodies list went:

"1. Illmatic
2. Doggystyle
3. College Dropout
4. 36 Chambers
5. Get Rich or Die Tryin'"

Maybe not in EVERYONE'S list because people dislike or "don't feel" Eminem's music, but a majority of the time MMLP gets credit for being one of the greatest.

The two you named are amazing albums; including both of Kanye's other albums too, but they are just "modern day/personal/near classic" albums.

umm....your analogy is wrong because the wheel IS considered one of the greatest inventions while the latest 2010 wheel isn't. Obviously creativity and impact play a crucial role. For instance, Rakim is considered one of the greatest emcees because of his caliber of lyricism compared to those around him when he came out. He was the best to do it at that time. Today there are many emcees on his level, but they will never attain that level of greatness because they didn't define lyricism like he did. They just took his style and ran with it.

Also I dont see the MMLP on a GOAT list that often, unless its the list of a hardcore Eminem fan. And I'd definitely say The College Dropout is a classic. Its the album that made Kanye an instant superstar. Even Rolling Stone recognized its greatness.

What's the difference between the OG wheel & a wheel today? Nothing, but date of release.

Basically all I'm getting from that is that is that today's rappers are in a lose-lose situation; they can't physically put out a classic album because they will be they are "taking styles & running with them".

You did say you feel that people could make something that has a different sound to it, but it seems like the more & more people go outside the comfort zone of traditional Hip Hop (I.E. - anybody on the radio) the more & more hate is given.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

^Today's artists are developing newer things; but the second they do, everybody runs, points fingers & says "That's so wack, Tupac is turning over in his grave".

Let's face it, "hood life" or "thug life" or whatever you want to call it, isn't an unlimited, infinite topic; eventually, everything that needed to have been said, will have been said & then all you got is people repeating themselves.

So basically, if you're a rapper today you're one of two things;

1. Somebody trying to have a unique sound & it's "wack".
2. Somebody trying to duplicate old records from the 90's & it's either "wack" or "blah, whatever; it's not as good as the 90's".

If you look into lists of "The Greatest Albums of All-Time", the last album to consistantly show up on people lists is "The Marshall Mathers LP"; a majority of people put that in their Top 10 & if it doesn't make the Top 10, it gets high recognition as a undeniable classic.

So what happened after that release? Was there some private meeting among rap fans saying "Alright, no more classics"; because if you look at it, impact is IMPOSSIBLE to acheieve 2010, so basically there can never be another classic again lol.

All you hear is "great album" or "oh, it's a personal classic, but I understand this isn't allowed to be in the discussion of 'greatest albums', I just like it a lot".

I'm not denying that better albums came out in the 90's, I'm not saying Nas/Pac/Cube/Wu/etc. in their 90's prime isn't better than almost anyone from today; just I don't like how ANY album from today is automatically second to 90's albums, just because of "impact".

Who should get more credit, the guy who invented the wheel, or a guy today who comes up with the latest brand of tires?

On the subject of innovation, I think there are plenty of areas that haven't been explored within hip hop. I just think most emcees feel safer following the status quo. Also the Marshal Mathers LP isn't the last album to be considered classic. The College Dropout, Speakerboxx/The Love Below, Get Rich or Die Tryin, etc. The past few years? Sure. Hip Hop album sales have decreases drastically and sales are one of the signs of impact. Basically if the album doesn't make an impact, it can't really  be a classic.

Credit is one thing, to say "this > that" because of impact is another.

To use your analogy, today's wheel > caveman wheel; the cavemen will always get the credit, but today's wheel still rolls as well & better.

The College Dropout & Get Rich or Die Tryin' are two classic albums, but I can't think of a time where somebodies list went:

"1. Illmatic
2. Doggystyle
3. College Dropout
4. 36 Chambers
5. Get Rich or Die Tryin'"

Maybe not in EVERYONE'S list because people dislike or "don't feel" Eminem's music, but a majority of the time MMLP gets credit for being one of the greatest.

The two you named are amazing albums; including both of Kanye's other albums too, but they are just "modern day/personal/near classic" albums.

umm....your analogy is wrong because the wheel IS considered one of the greatest inventions while the latest 2010 wheel isn't. Obviously creativity and impact play a crucial role. For instance, Rakim is considered one of the greatest emcees because of his caliber of lyricism compared to those around him when he came out. He was the best to do it at that time. Today there are many emcees on his level, but they will never attain that level of greatness because they didn't define lyricism like he did. They just took his style and ran with it.

Also I dont see the MMLP on a GOAT list that often, unless its the list of a hardcore Eminem fan. And I'd definitely say The College Dropout is a classic. Its the album that made Kanye an instant superstar. Even Rolling Stone recognized its greatness.

What's the difference between the OG wheel & a wheel today? Nothing, but date of release.

Basically all I'm getting from that is that is that today's rappers are in a lose-lose situation; they can't physically put out a classic album because they will be they are "taking styles & running with them".

You did say you feel that people could make something that has a different sound to it, but it seems like the more & more people go outside the comfort zone of traditional Hip Hop (I.E. - anybody on the radio) the more & more hate is given.

Hate given? such as? Who are these rappers being incredibly inventive that all this hate is given to? It certainly isn't any of the rappers who you frequently reference as your favorites.

Cmon dude, its fact that the invention of the wheel is considered one of the greatest inventions ever. A guy who comes up with a new brand of wheel isn't adding much, and hence will never get much attention. That's just common sense.

[BOX5 the best poster on this site yell]

a classic can be made today, i think jay electronica can do it and a few others, it's just after hearing something so long you get use to it, and alot of dudes today really be going over other's blue prints, i mean reciting they bars,lets be honest how can you say you spit a hot 16 when at least 4 bars are from somebody else? before if you did that,shit was called biting,now it's acceptable, shit is like baseball with the steriods era, alot of great players but the roids taint the accomplishments, same with the biting and following others blueprints to a tee, but still you can have a albert pujols break through, rap/hip hop is the same way yell

[Chamillitary Click]

^Today's artists are developing newer things; but the second they do, everybody runs, points fingers & says "That's so wack, Tupac is turning over in his grave".

Let's face it, "hood life" or "thug life" or whatever you want to call it, isn't an unlimited, infinite topic; eventually, everything that needed to have been said, will have been said & then all you got is people repeating themselves.

So basically, if you're a rapper today you're one of two things;

1. Somebody trying to have a unique sound & it's "wack".
2. Somebody trying to duplicate old records from the 90's & it's either "wack" or "blah, whatever; it's not as good as the 90's".

If you look into lists of "The Greatest Albums of All-Time", the last album to consistantly show up on people lists is "The Marshall Mathers LP"; a majority of people put that in their Top 10 & if it doesn't make the Top 10, it gets high recognition as a undeniable classic.

So what happened after that release? Was there some private meeting among rap fans saying "Alright, no more classics"; because if you look at it, impact is IMPOSSIBLE to acheieve 2010, so basically there can never be another classic again lol.

All you hear is "great album" or "oh, it's a personal classic, but I understand this isn't allowed to be in the discussion of 'greatest albums', I just like it a lot".

I'm not denying that better albums came out in the 90's, I'm not saying Nas/Pac/Cube/Wu/etc. in their 90's prime isn't better than almost anyone from today; just I don't like how ANY album from today is automatically second to 90's albums, just because of "impact".

Who should get more credit, the guy who invented the wheel, or a guy today who comes up with the latest brand of tires?

On the subject of innovation, I think there are plenty of areas that haven't been explored within hip hop. I just think most emcees feel safer following the status quo. Also the Marshal Mathers LP isn't the last album to be considered classic. The College Dropout, Speakerboxx/The Love Below, Get Rich or Die Tryin, etc. The past few years? Sure. Hip Hop album sales have decreases drastically and sales are one of the signs of impact. Basically if the album doesn't make an impact, it can't really  be a classic.

Credit is one thing, to say "this > that" because of impact is another.

To use your analogy, today's wheel > caveman wheel; the cavemen will always get the credit, but today's wheel still rolls as well & better.

The College Dropout & Get Rich or Die Tryin' are two classic albums, but I can't think of a time where somebodies list went:

"1. Illmatic
2. Doggystyle
3. College Dropout
4. 36 Chambers
5. Get Rich or Die Tryin'"

Maybe not in EVERYONE'S list because people dislike or "don't feel" Eminem's music, but a majority of the time MMLP gets credit for being one of the greatest.

The two you named are amazing albums; including both of Kanye's other albums too, but they are just "modern day/personal/near classic" albums.

umm....your analogy is wrong because the wheel IS considered one of the greatest inventions while the latest 2010 wheel isn't. Obviously creativity and impact play a crucial role. For instance, Rakim is considered one of the greatest emcees because of his caliber of lyricism compared to those around him when he came out. He was the best to do it at that time. Today there are many emcees on his level, but they will never attain that level of greatness because they didn't define lyricism like he did. They just took his style and ran with it.

Also I dont see the MMLP on a GOAT list that often, unless its the list of a hardcore Eminem fan. And I'd definitely say The College Dropout is a classic. Its the album that made Kanye an instant superstar. Even Rolling Stone recognized its greatness.

What's the difference between the OG wheel & a wheel today? Nothing, but date of release.

Basically all I'm getting from that is that is that today's rappers are in a lose-lose situation; they can't physically put out a classic album because they will be they are "taking styles & running with them".

You did say you feel that people could make something that has a different sound to it, but it seems like the more & more people go outside the comfort zone of traditional Hip Hop (I.E. - anybody on the radio) the more & more hate is given.

Hate given? such as? Who are these rappers being incredibly inventive that all this hate is given to? It certainly isn't any of the rappers who you frequently reference as your favorites.

Cmon dude, its fact that the invention of the wheel is considered one of the greatest inventions ever. A guy who comes up with a new brand of wheel isn't adding much, and hence will never get much attention. That's just common sense.

Name me one person besides Eminem or Jay-Z, who have been around for 10+ years each, who has a song on the radio that gets the same respect a guy from the 90's might; oddly enough the first two names that would likely come to mind are Eminem & Jay-Z lol.

& the wheel is the greatest invention; but in the past hundred million+ years, we haven't refined it? Smoothed out the edges?

[UCC]

the wheel IS considered one of the greatest inventions while the latest 2010 wheel isn't. Obviously creativity and impact play a crucial role. For instance, Rakim is considered one of the greatest emcees because of his caliber of lyricism compared to those around him when he came out. He was the best to do it at that time. Today there are many emcees on his level, but they will never attain that level of greatness because they didn't define lyricism like he did. They just took his style and ran with it.

Exactly

Also, like people said, Crooked is saying that those at the forefront are mostly not as good, not everyone

Like in the late '80s - early '90s the big rap superstars who were selling millions were people like Big Daddy Kane, Public Enemy, Rakim, then on to Wu-Tang, etc.
The "mainstream" people at the forefront of Hip-Hop were actually really dope lyrical MCs mostly.

There were a couple of wack guys, MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice, but no one in Hip-Hop circles considered them real Hip-Hop (unlike today where dudes wacker than those two are being hailed as the greatest rapper alive or whatever).

Even something like Naughty by Nature, "Hip-Hop Hooray", they're rapping circles around today's mainstream guys. Das EFX had CRAZY flows, most of the guys on the radio today are just talking and sound like they started rapping yesterday.

Of course there are still dope MCs, like Royce, Crooked, Tech N9ne, and a couple of guys in the mainstream, like Eminem or Jay-Z, but mostly it's really wack guys... the mainstream is mostly unskilled guys compared to the mainstream of the late 80s and early 90s.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

Crook sayin hes part of the old pack?

[J.E.]

again...

Crooked actually said.."today's MC's on the forefront of music..." etc.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

^Today's artists are developing newer things; but the second they do, everybody runs, points fingers & says "That's so wack, Tupac is turning over in his grave".

Let's face it, "hood life" or "thug life" or whatever you want to call it, isn't an unlimited, infinite topic; eventually, everything that needed to have been said, will have been said & then all you got is people repeating themselves.

So basically, if you're a rapper today you're one of two things;

1. Somebody trying to have a unique sound & it's "wack".
2. Somebody trying to duplicate old records from the 90's & it's either "wack" or "blah, whatever; it's not as good as the 90's".

If you look into lists of "The Greatest Albums of All-Time", the last album to consistantly show up on people lists is "The Marshall Mathers LP"; a majority of people put that in their Top 10 & if it doesn't make the Top 10, it gets high recognition as a undeniable classic.

So what happened after that release? Was there some private meeting among rap fans saying "Alright, no more classics"; because if you look at it, impact is IMPOSSIBLE to acheieve 2010, so basically there can never be another classic again lol.

All you hear is "great album" or "oh, it's a personal classic, but I understand this isn't allowed to be in the discussion of 'greatest albums', I just like it a lot".

I'm not denying that better albums came out in the 90's, I'm not saying Nas/Pac/Cube/Wu/etc. in their 90's prime isn't better than almost anyone from today; just I don't like how ANY album from today is automatically second to 90's albums, just because of "impact".

Who should get more credit, the guy who invented the wheel, or a guy today who comes up with the latest brand of tires?

On the subject of innovation, I think there are plenty of areas that haven't been explored within hip hop. I just think most emcees feel safer following the status quo. Also the Marshal Mathers LP isn't the last album to be considered classic. The College Dropout, Speakerboxx/The Love Below, Get Rich or Die Tryin, etc. The past few years? Sure. Hip Hop album sales have decreases drastically and sales are one of the signs of impact. Basically if the album doesn't make an impact, it can't really  be a classic.

Credit is one thing, to say "this > that" because of impact is another.

To use your analogy, today's wheel > caveman wheel; the cavemen will always get the credit, but today's wheel still rolls as well & better.

The College Dropout & Get Rich or Die Tryin' are two classic albums, but I can't think of a time where somebodies list went:

"1. Illmatic
2. Doggystyle
3. College Dropout
4. 36 Chambers
5. Get Rich or Die Tryin'"

Maybe not in EVERYONE'S list because people dislike or "don't feel" Eminem's music, but a majority of the time MMLP gets credit for being one of the greatest.

The two you named are amazing albums; including both of Kanye's other albums too, but they are just "modern day/personal/near classic" albums.

umm....your analogy is wrong because the wheel IS considered one of the greatest inventions while the latest 2010 wheel isn't. Obviously creativity and impact play a crucial role. For instance, Rakim is considered one of the greatest emcees because of his caliber of lyricism compared to those around him when he came out. He was the best to do it at that time. Today there are many emcees on his level, but they will never attain that level of greatness because they didn't define lyricism like he did. They just took his style and ran with it.

Also I dont see the MMLP on a GOAT list that often, unless its the list of a hardcore Eminem fan. And I'd definitely say The College Dropout is a classic. Its the album that made Kanye an instant superstar. Even Rolling Stone recognized its greatness.

What's the difference between the OG wheel & a wheel today? Nothing, but date of release.

Basically all I'm getting from that is that is that today's rappers are in a lose-lose situation; they can't physically put out a classic album because they will be they are "taking styles & running with them".

You did say you feel that people could make something that has a different sound to it, but it seems like the more & more people go outside the comfort zone of traditional Hip Hop (I.E. - anybody on the radio) the more & more hate is given.

Hate given? such as? Who are these rappers being incredibly inventive that all this hate is given to? It certainly isn't any of the rappers who you frequently reference as your favorites.

Cmon dude, its fact that the invention of the wheel is considered one of the greatest inventions ever. A guy who comes up with a new brand of wheel isn't adding much, and hence will never get much attention. That's just common sense.

Name me one person besides Eminem or Jay-Z, who have been around for 10+ years each, who has a song on the radio that gets the same respect a guy from the 90's might; oddly enough the first two names that would likely come to mind are Eminem & Jay-Z lol.

& the wheel is the greatest invention; but in the past hundred million+ years, we haven't refined it? Smoothed out the edges?

Frankly, there aren't that many rappers who have been around for 10+ years who still have songs on the radio.

As far as refining the wheel, certainly, but again, they aren't considered great inventions. The guy who designs a new brand of wheel will never be as great an inventor as whoever came up with the original idea.