Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
bird vs james
Chamillitary Click:
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 05, 2010, 06:49:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 04, 2010, 09:58:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 04, 2010, 08:10:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 04, 2010, 07:03:00 PM ---If LeBron James played in 1980, he would be considered the greatest thing to ever play a sport.
Same goes for Kobe before you absurd homosexuals start crying.
The game changed, people are more athletic. James's build is BEYOND what was thought possible back then.
Larry Bird is a legend, with "rings" & was caught up in a Laker/Celtic rivalry.
Put him on an insignificant team during the 80's & he wouldn't get such recognition.
Saying LeBron is better is a stretch because people are ignorant & can't put together that the game was completely different in terms of size. Nobody LeBron's build could dribble and pass like LeBron can.
So if you judge it "by the book", you can't even compare the two, it's Bird.
But if you have an open mind & think about it, James.
--- End quote ---
That's a crock of shit. Jordan wasn't any more athletic in the 90s than he was in the 80s and no one was calling him better than Bird and Magic in the 80s. And Jordan was never any less of a build than Kobe is now and Kobe s on top the league, just like Jordan would be if he played now. Whether it's Jordan 88 or Jordan 98. And if Larry Bird was on the Celts this and last year instead of Pierce, Kobe never would have gotten his 4th or 5th rings.
Larry was never the most athletic. He was the smartest. Yeah, I get it, LeBron has the build of an outside linebacker, but he wouldn't be any more dominant in the 80s than Jordan was.
--- End quote ---
I disagree and will continue to because you cannot provide substancial evidence to prove me wrong. It's not possible to have any, it's a question of faith.
And anyway, this is a question of LeBron or Bird. Bird has shooting, no question at all. But every other category goes to LeBron; driving, passing, handeling, defense, on the break, etc.
& nobody said Jordan was better in the 80's because Jordan didn't have any rings. I don't know who came up with this ring argument, but it's driving me crazy lol. It's like people are completely blind to the thought, regardless if Magic & Bird were the best players, they EASILY had the best support in the entire league. Magic had two future HOFers; as did Bird lol.
You used it for Peyton, it applies here. Hypothetically speaking, lets say LeBron won last year. I think it's basically safe to say that it would have been one of the worst overall teams to win a Final ever.
I can't really speak for before the 90's besides the 80's Lakers/Celtics, but if they won last year they easily would have been the worst overall team to win a Final in the past twenty years lol.
People need to get past the rings & realize this guy is averaging like 30, 7 & 7 in his career; obviously one of the greatest players.
--- End quote ---
You're really helping me out with the Jordan argument, that I was making. Debate my point with my point. Good move. Jordan was as good in the mid 80s as he was in the mid 90s, and mid 90s Jordan is as good as current Kobe. Current Kobe runs the league, so if 90s Jordan could run the league, then so could 80s Jordan, and 80s Jordan was as good as Bird, not better. So by simple deductive mathematical logic, 80s Bird would run the league in today's game.
Is that too complicated for you?
The Celts that won rings were great teams. But the rookie year for Bird had a terrible Celtics team that was at the bottom of the league the year before he got there. As a rookie he lead them from 29 wins to 61 wins and from no playoffs for a few years to the Eastern Conference Finals. No Parrish, no McHale, no Ainge, no shit. As a fucking rookie.
And don't even bother comparing the NFL to the NBA. Peyton is only one small aspect of an NFL team. So much of an NFL win and loss has nothing to do with a QB. The leader of an NBA team is on the court for every crucial moment and everything goes through him. Cleveland had Boston and Lebron gave up. I don't know or care what was going on at home. They needed him to step up and take charge and he stepped back. Larry Bird and the Cavs win that series (even if Larry walked in on Shaq and Ilgauskas DPing his mom). There is something to be said for grit. And I was a huge Lebron over Kobe supporter until I saw Lebron quit.
I don't care about rings or what happens in the end. I watch people play. And I'm not saying it's an obvious choice or anything, but from what I've seen with my own eyes, The Legend trumps the self proclaimed King.
--- End quote ---
LOL, don't give me that "he led them to the ECF". LeBron was completely alone & got to the Finals & people discredit that because they fight this "you need a ring" argument. Take that out of the equation & you NOTHING to say about LeBron. I couldn't tell you who Bird had his rookie year, but I'm willing to make a bet that overall they were a MUCHHHH better team than LeBron had when he made it to the Finals with Daniel "Booby" Gibson as his major number two player.
& I don't know if you were just being a smartass or serious, but if you truly meant 80's Bird would run today's league, that's insane. I'd say he'd be worse in every single statistically category. Just like how if Shaq played in the 70's-80's, he would undoubtedly be considered the greatest ever.
I'd compare Larry Bird to Dirk, just a better passer; if Larry was playing today. Now if you had the choice of Dirk or LeBron, who would you take?
Players today hit the gym daily, spend hours upon hours practicing, have coaches fine tune their game & overall just stay in much better top physical shape than they did.
Tha A:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 05, 2010, 11:40:34 AM ---
--- Quote from: Tha A on September 05, 2010, 07:28:51 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 05, 2010, 06:49:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 04, 2010, 09:58:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 04, 2010, 08:10:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 04, 2010, 07:03:00 PM ---If LeBron James played in 1980, he would be considered the greatest thing to ever play a sport.
Same goes for Kobe before you absurd homosexuals start crying.
The game changed, people are more athletic. James's build is BEYOND what was thought possible back then.
Larry Bird is a legend, with "rings" & was caught up in a Laker/Celtic rivalry.
Put him on an insignificant team during the 80's & he wouldn't get such recognition.
Saying LeBron is better is a stretch because people are ignorant & can't put together that the game was completely different in terms of size. Nobody LeBron's build could dribble and pass like LeBron can.
So if you judge it "by the book", you can't even compare the two, it's Bird.
But if you have an open mind & think about it, James.
--- End quote ---
That's a crock of shit. Jordan wasn't any more athletic in the 90s than he was in the 80s and no one was calling him better than Bird and Magic in the 80s. And Jordan was never any less of a build than Kobe is now and Kobe s on top the league, just like Jordan would be if he played now. Whether it's Jordan 88 or Jordan 98. And if Larry Bird was on the Celts this and last year instead of Pierce, Kobe never would have gotten his 4th or 5th rings.
Larry was never the most athletic. He was the smartest. Yeah, I get it, LeBron has the build of an outside linebacker, but he wouldn't be any more dominant in the 80s than Jordan was.
--- End quote ---
I disagree and will continue to because you cannot provide substancial evidence to prove me wrong. It's not possible to have any, it's a question of faith.
And anyway, this is a question of LeBron or Bird. Bird has shooting, no question at all. But every other category goes to LeBron; driving, passing, handeling, defense, on the break, etc.
& nobody said Jordan was better in the 80's because Jordan didn't have any rings. I don't know who came up with this ring argument, but it's driving me crazy lol. It's like people are completely blind to the thought, regardless if Magic & Bird were the best players, they EASILY had the best support in the entire league. Magic had two future HOFers; as did Bird lol.
You used it for Peyton, it applies here. Hypothetically speaking, lets say LeBron won last year. I think it's basically safe to say that it would have been one of the worst overall teams to win a Final ever.
I can't really speak for before the 90's besides the 80's Lakers/Celtics, but if they won last year they easily would have been the worst overall team to win a Final in the past twenty years lol.
People need to get past the rings & realize this guy is averaging like 30, 7 & 7 in his career; obviously one of the greatest players.
--- End quote ---
You're really helping me out with the Jordan argument, that I was making. Debate my point with my point. Good move. Jordan was as good in the mid 80s as he was in the mid 90s, and mid 90s Jordan is as good as current Kobe. Current Kobe runs the league, so if 90s Jordan could run the league, then so could 80s Jordan, and 80s Jordan was as good as Bird, not better. So by simple deductive mathematical logic, 80s Bird would run the league in today's game.
Is that too complicated for you?
The Celts that won rings were great teams. But the rookie year for Bird had a terrible Celtics team that was at the bottom of the league the year before he got there. As a rookie he lead them from 29 wins to 61 wins and from no playoffs for a few years to the Eastern Conference Finals. No Parrish, no McHale, no Ainge, no shit. As a fucking rookie.
And don't even bother comparing the NFL to the NBA. Peyton is only one small aspect of an NFL team. So much of an NFL win and loss has nothing to do with a QB. The leader of an NBA team is on the court for every crucial moment and everything goes through him. Cleveland had Boston and Lebron gave up. I don't know or care what was going on at home. They needed him to step up and take charge and he stepped back. Larry Bird and the Cavs win that series (even if Larry walked in on Shaq and Ilgauskas DPing his mom). There is something to be said for grit. And I was a huge Lebron over Kobe supporter until I saw Lebron quit.
I don't care about rings or what happens in the end. I watch people play. And I'm not saying it's an obvious choice or anything, but from what I've seen with my own eyes, The Legend trumps the self proclaimed King.
--- End quote ---
on point
I ain't trying to start some shit with chamilitary click over this but people gotta stop acting like there weren't great athletes in 80's nba. bird faced some of the best perimeter defenders ever like rodman, scottie and cooper, and they had a really tough time guarding bird mostly due to his smartness and "shooting ability the only little insignificant thing he got over lebron". the league had great competition like the bad boys who played really hard ball and the rules could damage lebron's driving a lot. lebron IS the best physical specimen(with his mobility and ballhandling abilities) in the nba no matter what year he played and that don't mean he would've been the best thing ever if he played on the 80's, he would've been the same as now, not saying that's not great.
--- End quote ---
Don't worry, fam. No disrespect at all, just a debate.
But the thing with Bird is that they were defending his shooting, they were probably hoping he pump faked & tried to drive. If you jump on a LeBron pump fake, you might as well just give him two points or at least call it a given he is going to the line.
Players are more atheltic today than they were in the 80's, it's basically a fact. Not saying there weren't any, but LeBron wouldn't have to face one every night; just occasionally.
--- End quote ---
it's all good.
the thing is larry was so deadly shooting that he could fake and drive(which he can also do) or pass. now that's why defenders rather have lebron shooting than driving because he's a beast attacking the basket, once he develops his game(specifically his jumpshot) and proves himself leading a team, racking mvp trophies and titles, and remaining consistent, then I would say he passed bird but not right now, he already tarnished his legacy a bit by moving to miami but let's see what happens. right now he ain't touching bird imo. of course players are more athletic today, the game changes, we developed, we now know much more. lebron would faced much more competition in terms of teams, I'll tell that much.
Tha A:
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 05, 2010, 11:50:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 05, 2010, 06:49:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 04, 2010, 09:58:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 04, 2010, 08:10:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 04, 2010, 07:03:00 PM ---If LeBron James played in 1980, he would be considered the greatest thing to ever play a sport.
Same goes for Kobe before you absurd homosexuals start crying.
The game changed, people are more athletic. James's build is BEYOND what was thought possible back then.
Larry Bird is a legend, with "rings" & was caught up in a Laker/Celtic rivalry.
Put him on an insignificant team during the 80's & he wouldn't get such recognition.
Saying LeBron is better is a stretch because people are ignorant & can't put together that the game was completely different in terms of size. Nobody LeBron's build could dribble and pass like LeBron can.
So if you judge it "by the book", you can't even compare the two, it's Bird.
But if you have an open mind & think about it, James.
--- End quote ---
That's a crock of shit. Jordan wasn't any more athletic in the 90s than he was in the 80s and no one was calling him better than Bird and Magic in the 80s. And Jordan was never any less of a build than Kobe is now and Kobe s on top the league, just like Jordan would be if he played now. Whether it's Jordan 88 or Jordan 98. And if Larry Bird was on the Celts this and last year instead of Pierce, Kobe never would have gotten his 4th or 5th rings.
Larry was never the most athletic. He was the smartest. Yeah, I get it, LeBron has the build of an outside linebacker, but he wouldn't be any more dominant in the 80s than Jordan was.
--- End quote ---
I disagree and will continue to because you cannot provide substancial evidence to prove me wrong. It's not possible to have any, it's a question of faith.
And anyway, this is a question of LeBron or Bird. Bird has shooting, no question at all. But every other category goes to LeBron; driving, passing, handeling, defense, on the break, etc.
& nobody said Jordan was better in the 80's because Jordan didn't have any rings. I don't know who came up with this ring argument, but it's driving me crazy lol. It's like people are completely blind to the thought, regardless if Magic & Bird were the best players, they EASILY had the best support in the entire league. Magic had two future HOFers; as did Bird lol.
You used it for Peyton, it applies here. Hypothetically speaking, lets say LeBron won last year. I think it's basically safe to say that it would have been one of the worst overall teams to win a Final ever.
I can't really speak for before the 90's besides the 80's Lakers/Celtics, but if they won last year they easily would have been the worst overall team to win a Final in the past twenty years lol.
People need to get past the rings & realize this guy is averaging like 30, 7 & 7 in his career; obviously one of the greatest players.
--- End quote ---
You're really helping me out with the Jordan argument, that I was making. Debate my point with my point. Good move. Jordan was as good in the mid 80s as he was in the mid 90s, and mid 90s Jordan is as good as current Kobe. Current Kobe runs the league, so if 90s Jordan could run the league, then so could 80s Jordan, and 80s Jordan was as good as Bird, not better. So by simple deductive mathematical logic, 80s Bird would run the league in today's game.
Is that too complicated for you?
The Celts that won rings were great teams. But the rookie year for Bird had a terrible Celtics team that was at the bottom of the league the year before he got there. As a rookie he lead them from 29 wins to 61 wins and from no playoffs for a few years to the Eastern Conference Finals. No Parrish, no McHale, no Ainge, no shit. As a fucking rookie.
And don't even bother comparing the NFL to the NBA. Peyton is only one small aspect of an NFL team. So much of an NFL win and loss has nothing to do with a QB. The leader of an NBA team is on the court for every crucial moment and everything goes through him. Cleveland had Boston and Lebron gave up. I don't know or care what was going on at home. They needed him to step up and take charge and he stepped back. Larry Bird and the Cavs win that series (even if Larry walked in on Shaq and Ilgauskas DPing his mom). There is something to be said for grit. And I was a huge Lebron over Kobe supporter until I saw Lebron quit.
I don't care about rings or what happens in the end. I watch people play. And I'm not saying it's an obvious choice or anything, but from what I've seen with my own eyes, The Legend trumps the self proclaimed King.
--- End quote ---
LOL, don't give me that "he led them to the ECF". LeBron was completely alone & got to the Finals & people discredit that because they fight this "you need a ring" argument. Take that out of the equation & you NOTHING to say about LeBron. I couldn't tell you who Bird had his rookie year, but I'm willing to make a bet that overall they were a MUCHHHH better team than LeBron had when he made it to the Finals with Daniel "Booby" Gibson as his major number two player.
& I don't know if you were just being a smartass or serious, but if you truly meant 80's Bird would run today's league, that's insane. I'd say he'd be worse in every single statistically category. Just like how if Shaq played in the 70's-80's, he would undoubtedly be considered the greatest ever.
I'd compare Larry Bird to Dirk, just a better passer; if Larry was playing today. Now if you had the choice of Dirk or LeBron, who would you take?
Players today hit the gym daily, spend hours upon hours practicing, have coaches fine tune their game & overall just stay in much better top physical shape than they did.
--- End quote ---
taking all the rings and mvp trophies away, comparing them both as players until lebron develops his game more(if he can do that, I believed he's not in his prime yet) bird is better. like I've said that celtics team had one of the worst records before bird got there and teams faced greater competition than they do today. you also gotta take in consideration that when lebron came into the league he was not that physical specimen that he is today despite being a great player, he developed his body and if he played in the 80's he would have not been like what he is today(that's why it is difficult to compare players from different eras). bird could develop much more in this day and age but even if he didn't all that much he would still dominate today, he didn't need no athleticism, he was deadly and too smart, just go watch games from the 80's celtics. don't even compare him to dirk man, dirk is big and a great shooter, bird could shoot better, pass better, rebound better, better at going to the hoop, better facilitator and he wasn't your typical pure shooter like ray allen or such, he developed his shooting with time and he could create his own shot, also dirk folds too much under pressure, bird didn't. and I agree completely with your last sentence, that's why you can't say lebron would dominate the 80's(it's not the 50's/60's were basketball was made mostly by skinny white boys) and that bird wouldn't dominate today. all in all it's a tough discussion but right now as a player bird is better(you gotta see him play really), in the end lebron can be greater as a player and career wise(though more difficult due to his recent transaction), we just gotta wait in see what happens.
theremedy360:
Different athletes in different eras, but it's obvious that LeBron is nowhere close to Bird in terms of achievements.
S P I C E:
LOL!! No comparison here, Larry Bird shits all over Bron Bron.
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