Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Chamillitary Click:
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 10:02:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 09:58:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 09:50:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 04:37:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 04:28:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Javier on September 10, 2010, 09:41:22 AM ---I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team. My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one. Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent.
--- End quote ---
I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.
What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.
--- End quote ---
The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.
--- End quote ---
So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.
I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.
--- End quote ---
No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.
--- End quote ---
I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.
--- End quote ---
I will live them up for you, brah! 8)
We disagree..often, but when arguing sports amongst friends, I ask myself "What would Shallow say?" & nine times out of ten it works. You are a knowledgable sports mind. 8)
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 10:02:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 09:58:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 09:50:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 04:37:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 04:28:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Javier on September 10, 2010, 09:41:22 AM ---I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team. My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one. Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent.
--- End quote ---
I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.
What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.
--- End quote ---
The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.
--- End quote ---
So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.
I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.
--- End quote ---
No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.
--- End quote ---
I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.
--- End quote ---
True words, man I miss being 18-22, it was the funniest times, with the best girls.
Back to baseball, We talk about Ruth, I still am not sold on Ruth being the GOAT, but after a long look at baseball I am not sure anyone is the GOAT. Each era is so different. I mean you have the dead ball era, and I'd say if you look at surroundings Ty Cobbs is someone people should look at.
In an era where people couldn't hit, Cobbs went on to become the all-time hits leader until Pete Rose broke his record.
Coming out of the Dead Ball Era you have the Golden Era were Babe Ruth started a new style of power ball, of course become the home run king until Hank Aaron.
Those two eras come with their own asterisk as baseball was separated by color. In 1947 baseball breaks the color lines and we get a sort of racial integration era highlighted by my personal favorite, Willie Mays.
In 1960 baseball begins the Expansion Era and quality of play takes a hit, but that also lead to a pitching era lead by Sandy Koufax.
In the 70's, we have the Free Agency Era, and run production increases again and Reggie Jackson takes center stage among all the free agency controversy.
1994 sees the dawn of the Steroid Era. Every timeline I have seen usually calls this the Long Ball Era, usually dated 1994 because of the season ending strike. But I would argue that even though steroids were used in the 80's, it becomes unreal in the 90's, and every team had at least one player juicing. Barry Bonds is the poster child of that era.
So that's kind of how I see it, it's hard to compare Cobbs to Ruth to Mays to Koufax to Jackson to Bonds. Then you have players who were in their eras top 10 who you might say is better than another eras best. The game has changed too much.
Shallow:
Obviously you can never really compare people that didn't play against the same players. I don't put Ruth the hitter as GOAT above any of the names you mentioned. It's only when I factor in the pitching accolades that I have to call him the greatest. That's like a player being a QB and a middle line-backer and leafing the league in TDs and INTs. (I think there was one back in the really old days).
--- Quote from: M Dogg on September 11, 2010, 12:17:31 AM ---
1994 sees the dawn of the Steroid Era. Every timeline I have seen usually calls this the Long Ball Era, usually dated 1994 because of the season ending strike. But I would argue that even though steroids were used in the 80's, it becomes unreal in the 90's, and every team had at least one player juicing. Barry Bonds is the poster child of that era.
--- End quote ---
Now this I don't feel to be true. There were reports of the Yankees and Mickey Mantle taking amphetamine pills to get energized before games in the 50s. Steroids was used legally in the late 50s and early 60s for track stars. There's no reason for me to believe that steroids we, and have been used by at least 50% of professional athletes starting back in those days.
Again we are not dealing with steroids in the context of let's take this all the time so we can get huge. I'm talking about taking it in smaller doses or during crucial parts of the season so that your muscles aren't sore during games and your energy levels are way up. It's been rampant in the NFL since the beginning. Why would it take 30 years to get to the MLB?
and Cham; thank you sir. To your credit I initially thought you were around 25 by most of what you argued. And my friends call me Peter. Pete. Petey. Big Pete (I was 5'11 250 lbs in grade 8).
Halu Sination:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on September 11, 2010, 12:17:31 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 10:02:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 09:58:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 09:50:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 04:37:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 04:28:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: Javier on September 10, 2010, 09:41:22 AM ---I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team. My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one. Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent.
--- End quote ---
I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.
What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.
--- End quote ---
The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.
--- End quote ---
So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.
I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.
--- End quote ---
No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.
--- End quote ---
I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.
--- End quote ---
True words, man I miss being 18-22, it was the funniest times, with the best girls.
--- End quote ---
Lol real talk. I'm only 22 right now (just recently graduated college) and I'm actually in a pretty good place in my life, and yet even I would love to go back and re-do a small handful of things from within just one year ago. Sometimes you wonder if "pretty good place" could have been a "really good place."
And yea, the college bitches were a definite plus too haha. Speaking of which, I know American pop culture leads us to believe that these are the best bitches, but do they really not get better from here on up? I always thought that it was my own assumption and personal taste that made me chase the young tail, but if there really is no improvement as we get older, that's actually kind of depressing to know lol.
Back on topic, Bonds on steroids is the best player of all-time IMO, championship or not.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Halu Sination on September 11, 2010, 03:07:41 PM ---
Lol real talk. I'm only 22 right now (just recently graduated college) and I'm actually in a pretty good place in my life, and yet even I would love to go back and re-do a small handful of things from within just one year ago. Sometimes you wonder if "pretty good place" could have been a "really good place."
And yea, the college bitches were a definite plus too haha. Speaking of which, I know American pop culture leads us to believe that these are the best bitches, but do they really not get better from here on up? I always thought that it was my own assumption and personal taste that made me chase the young tail, but if there really is no improvement as we get older, that's actually kind of depressing to know lol.
--- End quote ---
I feel for you. I really do. It's all over and you don't even know it yet. It doesn't punch you in the face until that horrid 25th birthday, and until then you can still stretch out what you got going on now, but at 25 you'll see that pre-23 was where it was at.
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