Phil Jackson: "Kobe has patterned himself after Michael......he is not michael"

[Sccit]

So Kobe gets penalized for being part of the greatest 1-2 punch in history? lame argument, dicklickers.

Thats life. If Lebron wins a title alongside Wade, it wouldnt be viewed as great as it would if he did in Cleveland. Winning three titles as the #2 guy on the team will always be a part of Kobe's legacy, especially considering the fact that they sucked when Shaq left. Like it or not, thats just how it is. Like I said, he IS an all time great. But the bottom line is, he DOES have 2 titles as THE man for his team. He has 3 titles as the sidekick.

sidekicks don't average around 30 points...it was not a sidekick situation, it was a 1-2 punch, and it was the greatest 1-2 punch in history...discrediting kobe's titles because he played with shaq would be like discrediting magic's titles because he played with kareem. not happenin'.

Then why does the rest of the world see him as the #2 guy on those teams with Shaq? lol. The rest of the world doesnt see Magic as the #2 guy on his titles with Kareem. They DO with Kobe. Maybe the entire world is wrong, outside of Kobe fans.

maybe that's because the offense ran through shaq, as a triangle offense traditionally should.....okay, lets flip it around. are you gunna discredit karreem's 5 titles because he got them with magic? most people saw magic as the first option on that team, but that doesn't mean kareem wasn't just as vital. in fact, kareem is considered by most the greatest center of all time...try twistin that one up LOL.

I wouldnt discredit Kareems titles with Magic, because like most people...I dont see one of the two as being more of a focal point of those teams. There is a bit of a difference when you are looking at a PG anyways. Look at Stockton and Malone. The two arent in competition as to who the focal point is. With Shaq and Kobe, they were both score first guys. Their jobs, offensively, were to put the ball in the basket. Kobe was feeding off of Shaq though. And it has nothing to do with the triangle. That would have been the case in any offense. Shaq gets the ball first, tries to create..if he is doubled (which he was most of the time back then) he kicks it out to an open shooter, a slashing Kobe, etc.

If it makes you feel any better, Robinson is one of the greatest Centers ever. But a title withOUT Duncan would have meant more to his legacy than a title WITH Duncan. True any title is better than none at all. But not all titles are weighed evenly.

sorry to burst your kobe bashin bubble, blood, but magic been considered the focal point of them laker teams, even moreso than shaq of the threepeat era. in the magic days, it was always magic and the lakers. magic was the one with his picture on the cover and what not. in the threepeat era, it was always kobe AND shaq or shaq AND kobe, never shaq and the lakers. and they were always both publicized TOGETHER, if not, kobe maybe even a little more. point is, if u discredit kobe's titles, u gotta discredit kareems, because he was part of a 1-2 punch, a dynamic duo- NOT a sidekick.


as for shaq creating double teams, don't act like it didn't go both ways. kobe would drive and spoon-feed shaq wide open dunks left and right, if u even watched the lakers in those years. as for d-robinson, that is no comparison...d-robinson was already well out of his prime when he won his title, while kobe was entering his prime when he started winning. awful analogy.

[Sccit]

So Kobe gets penalized for being part of the greatest 1-2 punch in history? lame argument, dicklickers.

Thats life. If Lebron wins a title alongside Wade, it wouldnt be viewed as great as it would if he did in Cleveland. Winning three titles as the #2 guy on the team will always be a part of Kobe's legacy, especially considering the fact that they sucked when Shaq left. Like it or not, thats just how it is. Like I said, he IS an all time great. But the bottom line is, he DOES have 2 titles as THE man for his team. He has 3 titles as the sidekick.

With that being said, Kobe is a great player, the best the game has today and will go off as one of the all time greats BUT like Phil said - HE IS NOT MJ AND NEVER WILL BE. He's unique in his own way but comparing him and everyone else to Jordan is just unfair. If you look at what Michael did on and off the basketball court - it's just ridiculous to compare anyone to him and no matter what Kobe will do in the few more years he's got left, he will always be number 2 behind Mike.. and it's a great accomplish in it's own way - he's the closest one we've seen.

BUT Michael fuckin' Jeffrey Jordan is the G.O.A.T. - point blank.

i dunno if u watched the videos i posted, but if u did, phil clearly said kobe is more talented than jordan...the perception of the general public is exactly what u said, but that is what nike, the media, and the nba has embedded in everyones brain growing up in the take-off of the marketting era. from a basketball standpoint, kobe has accomplished feats just as amazing as jordan, and even outdid him in certain aspects...so yes, the comparison is still very much there, my dude.

[Sccit]

There are two things than make MJ better than Kobe : shooting efficiency and MJ first three finals are out of this world , Kobe production in the finals has been average ... but this topic didn't really to be discussed for the 14445855544 times

what about jordan's failed years in the playoffs? LOL. there were years when he wasn't even good enough to make it to the finals, so that is not a fair assessment. jordan never played in a finals series with a soft and inexperienced pau gasol getting punked as a second option, but rather had the best perimeter defender in the league and one of the 50 greatest players of all time playing with him in all 6 of those finals. as for the efficiency, once again, jordan was not capable of shooting the ball from long distances, as he wasn't good from outside, so most of his shots would come from in or around the paint. kobe has more range, thus naturally he shoots a lower percentage. no way jordan would be as efficient as he was in todays perimeter oriented game...not with the way teams are able to double and triple team nowadays, no way. in my opinion, kobe drafted to the bulls in 84 insteada jordan woulda won 8 straight titles (considering his competitive drive and love for basketball is much too strong to retire for baseball).

[Chamillitary Click]

LOL. You're reaching with that "lesser of a cast" shit.

Shaq didn't have a complimentary big man. Gasol & Bynum together is as effective, if not more than Shaq in his prime.

Odom arguably could have been the 3rd best player on that three-peat team if he was on it then & Artest is a lovely fit.

Not to mention, you're much deeper off the bench.

Enough excuses, son.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

So Kobe gets penalized for being part of the greatest 1-2 punch in history? lame argument, dicklickers.

Thats life. If Lebron wins a title alongside Wade, it wouldnt be viewed as great as it would if he did in Cleveland. Winning three titles as the #2 guy on the team will always be a part of Kobe's legacy, especially considering the fact that they sucked when Shaq left. Like it or not, thats just how it is. Like I said, he IS an all time great. But the bottom line is, he DOES have 2 titles as THE man for his team. He has 3 titles as the sidekick.

With that being said, Kobe is a great player, the best the game has today and will go off as one of the all time greats BUT like Phil said - HE IS NOT MJ AND NEVER WILL BE. He's unique in his own way but comparing him and everyone else to Jordan is just unfair. If you look at what Michael did on and off the basketball court - it's just ridiculous to compare anyone to him and no matter what Kobe will do in the few more years he's got left, he will always be number 2 behind Mike.. and it's a great accomplish in it's own way - he's the closest one we've seen.

BUT Michael fuckin' Jeffrey Jordan is the G.O.A.T. - point blank.

Kobe wont be considered #2 behind Jordan. I doubt Kobe is going to pass up Bill Russell, etc on the all time list lol. Again, Kobe is compared to Jordan because of his style of play...not necessarily the content of it. There have been times since Jordan left where the best player in the league was a bigman, but they are never compared to Jordan because they are bigs. So Kobe might end his career as the #2 SG behind Jordan, but not the #2 player.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

So Kobe gets penalized for being part of the greatest 1-2 punch in history? lame argument, dicklickers.

Thats life. If Lebron wins a title alongside Wade, it wouldnt be viewed as great as it would if he did in Cleveland. Winning three titles as the #2 guy on the team will always be a part of Kobe's legacy, especially considering the fact that they sucked when Shaq left. Like it or not, thats just how it is. Like I said, he IS an all time great. But the bottom line is, he DOES have 2 titles as THE man for his team. He has 3 titles as the sidekick.

sidekicks don't average around 30 points...it was not a sidekick situation, it was a 1-2 punch, and it was the greatest 1-2 punch in history...discrediting kobe's titles because he played with shaq would be like discrediting magic's titles because he played with kareem. not happenin'.

Then why does the rest of the world see him as the #2 guy on those teams with Shaq? lol. The rest of the world doesnt see Magic as the #2 guy on his titles with Kareem. They DO with Kobe. Maybe the entire world is wrong, outside of Kobe fans.

maybe that's because the offense ran through shaq, as a triangle offense traditionally should.....okay, lets flip it around. are you gunna discredit karreem's 5 titles because he got them with magic? most people saw magic as the first option on that team, but that doesn't mean kareem wasn't just as vital. in fact, kareem is considered by most the greatest center of all time...try twistin that one up LOL.

I wouldnt discredit Kareems titles with Magic, because like most people...I dont see one of the two as being more of a focal point of those teams. There is a bit of a difference when you are looking at a PG anyways. Look at Stockton and Malone. The two arent in competition as to who the focal point is. With Shaq and Kobe, they were both score first guys. Their jobs, offensively, were to put the ball in the basket. Kobe was feeding off of Shaq though. And it has nothing to do with the triangle. That would have been the case in any offense. Shaq gets the ball first, tries to create..if he is doubled (which he was most of the time back then) he kicks it out to an open shooter, a slashing Kobe, etc.

If it makes you feel any better, Robinson is one of the greatest Centers ever. But a title withOUT Duncan would have meant more to his legacy than a title WITH Duncan. True any title is better than none at all. But not all titles are weighed evenly.

sorry to burst your kobe bashin bubble, blood, but magic been considered the focal point of them laker teams, even moreso than shaq of the threepeat era. in the magic days, it was always magic and the lakers. magic was the one with his picture on the cover and what not. in the threepeat era, it was always kobe AND shaq or shaq AND kobe, never shaq and the lakers. and they were always both publicized TOGETHER, if not, kobe maybe even a little more. point is, if u discredit kobe's titles, u gotta discredit kareems, because he was part of a 1-2 punch, a dynamic duo- NOT a sidekick.


as for shaq creating double teams, don't act like it didn't go both ways. kobe would drive and spoon-feed shaq wide open dunks left and right, if u even watched the lakers in those years. as for d-robinson, that is no comparison...d-robinson was already well out of his prime when he won his title, while kobe was entering his prime when he started winning. awful analogy.

Magic wasnt the only focal point of those teams, Kareem was aswell. He was just the STAR of those teams. There is a difference. Magic was Showtime, he was Hollywood...etc. Im talking about ON the court. And the Robinson comparison is only in that, winning a title as THE man...is different than winning a title like Kobe did his first three. You would discredit any title won by Lebron with the Heat, because he is playing with Wade. Well Kobe wasnt even in his prime yet when the Shaq Lakers started winning titles. Shaq was. Those were Shaqs teams...and Kobe was there to help. These teams now, these are Kobe's teams. So the last two titles I give him full credit for as being THE man on these teams. His first three matter, but not as much. Period. You can argue all you want, but face it...youre just wrong. I know you think you never are. But everyone else always does, so its all good.

[Sccit]

So Kobe gets penalized for being part of the greatest 1-2 punch in history? lame argument, dicklickers.

Thats life. If Lebron wins a title alongside Wade, it wouldnt be viewed as great as it would if he did in Cleveland. Winning three titles as the #2 guy on the team will always be a part of Kobe's legacy, especially considering the fact that they sucked when Shaq left. Like it or not, thats just how it is. Like I said, he IS an all time great. But the bottom line is, he DOES have 2 titles as THE man for his team. He has 3 titles as the sidekick.

sidekicks don't average around 30 points...it was not a sidekick situation, it was a 1-2 punch, and it was the greatest 1-2 punch in history...discrediting kobe's titles because he played with shaq would be like discrediting magic's titles because he played with kareem. not happenin'.

Then why does the rest of the world see him as the #2 guy on those teams with Shaq? lol. The rest of the world doesnt see Magic as the #2 guy on his titles with Kareem. They DO with Kobe. Maybe the entire world is wrong, outside of Kobe fans.

maybe that's because the offense ran through shaq, as a triangle offense traditionally should.....okay, lets flip it around. are you gunna discredit karreem's 5 titles because he got them with magic? most people saw magic as the first option on that team, but that doesn't mean kareem wasn't just as vital. in fact, kareem is considered by most the greatest center of all time...try twistin that one up LOL.

I wouldnt discredit Kareems titles with Magic, because like most people...I dont see one of the two as being more of a focal point of those teams. There is a bit of a difference when you are looking at a PG anyways. Look at Stockton and Malone. The two arent in competition as to who the focal point is. With Shaq and Kobe, they were both score first guys. Their jobs, offensively, were to put the ball in the basket. Kobe was feeding off of Shaq though. And it has nothing to do with the triangle. That would have been the case in any offense. Shaq gets the ball first, tries to create..if he is doubled (which he was most of the time back then) he kicks it out to an open shooter, a slashing Kobe, etc.

If it makes you feel any better, Robinson is one of the greatest Centers ever. But a title withOUT Duncan would have meant more to his legacy than a title WITH Duncan. True any title is better than none at all. But not all titles are weighed evenly.

sorry to burst your kobe bashin bubble, blood, but magic been considered the focal point of them laker teams, even moreso than shaq of the threepeat era. in the magic days, it was always magic and the lakers. magic was the one with his picture on the cover and what not. in the threepeat era, it was always kobe AND shaq or shaq AND kobe, never shaq and the lakers. and they were always both publicized TOGETHER, if not, kobe maybe even a little more. point is, if u discredit kobe's titles, u gotta discredit kareems, because he was part of a 1-2 punch, a dynamic duo- NOT a sidekick.


as for shaq creating double teams, don't act like it didn't go both ways. kobe would drive and spoon-feed shaq wide open dunks left and right, if u even watched the lakers in those years. as for d-robinson, that is no comparison...d-robinson was already well out of his prime when he won his title, while kobe was entering his prime when he started winning. awful analogy.

Magic wasnt the only focal point of those teams, Kareem was aswell. He was just the STAR of those teams. There is a difference. Magic was Showtime, he was Hollywood...etc. Im talking about ON the court. And the Robinson comparison is only in that, winning a title as THE man...is different than winning a title like Kobe did his first three. You would discredit any title won by Lebron with the Heat, because he is playing with Wade. Well Kobe wasnt even in his prime yet when the Shaq Lakers started winning titles. Shaq was. Those were Shaqs teams...and Kobe was there to help. These teams now, these are Kobe's teams. So the last two titles I give him full credit for as being THE man on these teams. His first three matter, but not as much. Period. You can argue all you want, but face it...youre just wrong. I know you think you never are. But everyone else always does, so its all good.

sorry, but in my opinion, and many others who followed the lakers closely during the threepeat era, shaq and kobe were just as much 50-50 as magic and kareem. why would shaq consider himself and kobe the greatest DUO in history if it were otherwise...if u didnt watch the games where kobe clearly led the team, just look at numbers in comparison to shaq's...they are neck and neck, and kobe was talented enough to average 35+ a game in those days.

[Sccit]

LOL. You're reaching with that "lesser of a cast" shit.

Shaq didn't have a complimentary big man. Gasol & Bynum together is as effective, if not more than Shaq in his prime.

Odom arguably could have been the 3rd best player on that three-peat team if he was on it then & Artest is a lovely fit.

Not to mention, you're much deeper off the bench.

Enough excuses, son.

 come on, idiot, kobe is clearly playing with less of a cast than jordan did, and it's not even up for debate. the bulls minus jordan were a 55 win team. pippen was considered by many the 2nd best player in the league for some time while he played with jordan. you gotta be a total dumbshit to compare kobe's current cast to that of jordan's.

[Chamillitary Click]

LOL. You're reaching with that "lesser of a cast" shit.

Shaq didn't have a complimentary big man. Gasol & Bynum together is as effective, if not more than Shaq in his prime.

Odom arguably could have been the 3rd best player on that three-peat team if he was on it then & Artest is a lovely fit.

Not to mention, you're much deeper off the bench.

Enough excuses, son.

 come on, idiot, kobe is clearly playing with less of a cast than jordan did, and it's not even up for debate. the bulls minus jordan were a 55 win team. pippen was considered by many the 2nd best player in the league for some time while he played with jordan. you gotta be a total dumbshit to compare kobe's current cast to that of jordan's.

No, no, no. A few posts up you compared "Kobe's current cast" to his cast with Shaq. I'm talking about that.

[Shallow]

kobe was 20-22 in those 3peat years....there's no way magic, jordan, or bird would have done any better at that age. at that age, jordan, magic, and bird were still in college. what kobe was doing at that age was unheard of. in fact, one can go ahead and say that if shaq were replaced by kareem, hakeem, or wilt, kobe woulda won more titles during those years. argument can go either way, but it doesn't help to sit here and wonder "what if"...trust me, if you followed the lakers during those years, you would know just how special kobe's talent was, even in his younger days, and how vital that talent was to any success the lakers had.

I don't think more titles but maybe just as many, but those 3 Centers would have been the leaders on that team.

And what Larry did in that last year of college and that first year on the Celtics Kobe wasn't able to do until very recently. Fuck numbers, I could get in that all day with my QB debates, this is about being able to carry guys that wouldn't even know what playoffs were if anyone else was on that team. Not Jordan, not Magic, not fucking Ben Hur, could have taken that 79/80 Celtics to the playoffs in their rookie years. I wonder if they could have even done it in their prime. Had Larry started with Kareem, and Magic with a bunch of scrubs (no McHale or Parrish yet) there may not have even been much a rivalry.

I'll debate Magic vs Larry as players, but not as leaders. And that first year Celtic team needed a better leader than player.

LMAO...I don't think you realize that Magic, as a rookie, won the title without Kareem. when Kareem went down with an injury, Magic started the title game for the Lakers at CENTER, as a muthafuckin rookie...i'm sorry, but nothing Larry Legend did in his rookie year could rival that, no matter how hard u sit there and try pushing "Larry>Magic"...Magic was an amazing player, as was Bird, but Magic was able to do things Larry could only dream of.


still, neither Magic nor Bird were able to threepeate...Kobe is on the verge of doing it for a second time, with a lesser supporting cast.

Yeah but they were still up 3-2 in the finals with Kareem. Being greater in his rookie season in one game doesn't make it a better season. And still even with out Kareem the Lakers were way better than the Celtics (with out Larry). It's very simple, the 80 Lakers with out Magic still make the playoffs, the 79/80 Celtics do not, with out Larry.

[Sccit]

LOL. You're reaching with that "lesser of a cast" shit.

Shaq didn't have a complimentary big man. Gasol & Bynum together is as effective, if not more than Shaq in his prime.

Odom arguably could have been the 3rd best player on that three-peat team if he was on it then & Artest is a lovely fit.

Not to mention, you're much deeper off the bench.

Enough excuses, son.

 come on, idiot, kobe is clearly playing with less of a cast than jordan did, and it's not even up for debate. the bulls minus jordan were a 55 win team. pippen was considered by many the 2nd best player in the league for some time while he played with jordan. you gotta be a total dumbshit to compare kobe's current cast to that of jordan's.

No, no, no. A few posts up you compared "Kobe's current cast" to his cast with Shaq. I'm talking about that.

no...no, i didn't...and even if, the laker threepeat team is one of the greatest teams ever assembled in sports, so not many teams can compare to them, regardless.

[Sccit]

kobe was 20-22 in those 3peat years....there's no way magic, jordan, or bird would have done any better at that age. at that age, jordan, magic, and bird were still in college. what kobe was doing at that age was unheard of. in fact, one can go ahead and say that if shaq were replaced by kareem, hakeem, or wilt, kobe woulda won more titles during those years. argument can go either way, but it doesn't help to sit here and wonder "what if"...trust me, if you followed the lakers during those years, you would know just how special kobe's talent was, even in his younger days, and how vital that talent was to any success the lakers had.

I don't think more titles but maybe just as many, but those 3 Centers would have been the leaders on that team.

And what Larry did in that last year of college and that first year on the Celtics Kobe wasn't able to do until very recently. Fuck numbers, I could get in that all day with my QB debates, this is about being able to carry guys that wouldn't even know what playoffs were if anyone else was on that team. Not Jordan, not Magic, not fucking Ben Hur, could have taken that 79/80 Celtics to the playoffs in their rookie years. I wonder if they could have even done it in their prime. Had Larry started with Kareem, and Magic with a bunch of scrubs (no McHale or Parrish yet) there may not have even been much a rivalry.

I'll debate Magic vs Larry as players, but not as leaders. And that first year Celtic team needed a better leader than player.

LMAO...I don't think you realize that Magic, as a rookie, won the title without Kareem. when Kareem went down with an injury, Magic started the title game for the Lakers at CENTER, as a muthafuckin rookie...i'm sorry, but nothing Larry Legend did in his rookie year could rival that, no matter how hard u sit there and try pushing "Larry>Magic"...Magic was an amazing player, as was Bird, but Magic was able to do things Larry could only dream of.


still, neither Magic nor Bird were able to threepeate...Kobe is on the verge of doing it for a second time, with a lesser supporting cast.

Yeah but they were still up 3-2 in the finals with Kareem. Being greater in his rookie season in one game doesn't make it a better season. And still even with out Kareem the Lakers were way better than the Celtics (with out Larry). It's very simple, the 80 Lakers with out Magic still make the playoffs, the 79/80 Celtics do not, with out Larry.

you act like making the playoffs is some amazing feat LOL. brandon jennings led his team to the playoffs as a rookie last year...if larry won a title as a rookie, different story, but as it is, he definitely didn't do anything in his rookie season that puts him above magic.

[Shallow]

kobe was 20-22 in those 3peat years....there's no way magic, jordan, or bird would have done any better at that age. at that age, jordan, magic, and bird were still in college. what kobe was doing at that age was unheard of. in fact, one can go ahead and say that if shaq were replaced by kareem, hakeem, or wilt, kobe woulda won more titles during those years. argument can go either way, but it doesn't help to sit here and wonder "what if"...trust me, if you followed the lakers during those years, you would know just how special kobe's talent was, even in his younger days, and how vital that talent was to any success the lakers had.

I don't think more titles but maybe just as many, but those 3 Centers would have been the leaders on that team.

And what Larry did in that last year of college and that first year on the Celtics Kobe wasn't able to do until very recently. Fuck numbers, I could get in that all day with my QB debates, this is about being able to carry guys that wouldn't even know what playoffs were if anyone else was on that team. Not Jordan, not Magic, not fucking Ben Hur, could have taken that 79/80 Celtics to the playoffs in their rookie years. I wonder if they could have even done it in their prime. Had Larry started with Kareem, and Magic with a bunch of scrubs (no McHale or Parrish yet) there may not have even been much a rivalry.

I'll debate Magic vs Larry as players, but not as leaders. And that first year Celtic team needed a better leader than player.

LMAO...I don't think you realize that Magic, as a rookie, won the title without Kareem. when Kareem went down with an injury, Magic started the title game for the Lakers at CENTER, as a muthafuckin rookie...i'm sorry, but nothing Larry Legend did in his rookie year could rival that, no matter how hard u sit there and try pushing "Larry>Magic"...Magic was an amazing player, as was Bird, but Magic was able to do things Larry could only dream of.


still, neither Magic nor Bird were able to threepeate...Kobe is on the verge of doing it for a second time, with a lesser supporting cast.

Yeah but they were still up 3-2 in the finals with Kareem. Being greater in his rookie season in one game doesn't make it a better season. And still even with out Kareem the Lakers were way better than the Celtics (with out Larry). It's very simple, the 80 Lakers with out Magic still make the playoffs, the 79/80 Celtics do not, with out Larry.

you act like making the playoffs is some amazing feat LOL. brandon jennings led his team to the playoffs as a rookie last year...if larry won a title as a rookie, different story, but as it is, he definitely didn't do anything in his rookie season that puts him above magic.

If Larry as a rookie was the only rookie in league history that could have taken that 79/80 squad, to not only the playoffs, but the conference finals then yeah it is some amazing feat. But that's all speculation.

What isn't isn't speculation is winning the rookie of the year award. And who was the MVP that year again? Oh, yeah the guy Magic got to play with all year. It's very simple, if Kareem had been on Boston in 79/80 instead of LA, Larry would have started out his career with a ring. If you think anything else I will not respond to any of your posts ever again. I promise.

[teecee]

NIK, you dug up old posts to call me out or win or whatever the fuck; if I had time I'd do the same but its all good.



My point was that because Kobe will NEVER EVER be able to compete with MJ stats wise (except for games and seasons played), the only way he has a chance in hell of being as good as MJ is with playoff success.   And yes, he has 5 rings, so good on Kobe.  Even now, with two MVP's in playoffs (to MJ's six), its not really that logical to put Kobe up with MJ.  Kobe is top 10 all time definitely, and second best shooting guard ever.


Kobe is not Michael as he has more flaws in his game (decision making/bball sense being the biggest) but he is fucking good. 

[Sccit]

kobe was 20-22 in those 3peat years....there's no way magic, jordan, or bird would have done any better at that age. at that age, jordan, magic, and bird were still in college. what kobe was doing at that age was unheard of. in fact, one can go ahead and say that if shaq were replaced by kareem, hakeem, or wilt, kobe woulda won more titles during those years. argument can go either way, but it doesn't help to sit here and wonder "what if"...trust me, if you followed the lakers during those years, you would know just how special kobe's talent was, even in his younger days, and how vital that talent was to any success the lakers had.

I don't think more titles but maybe just as many, but those 3 Centers would have been the leaders on that team.

And what Larry did in that last year of college and that first year on the Celtics Kobe wasn't able to do until very recently. Fuck numbers, I could get in that all day with my QB debates, this is about being able to carry guys that wouldn't even know what playoffs were if anyone else was on that team. Not Jordan, not Magic, not fucking Ben Hur, could have taken that 79/80 Celtics to the playoffs in their rookie years. I wonder if they could have even done it in their prime. Had Larry started with Kareem, and Magic with a bunch of scrubs (no McHale or Parrish yet) there may not have even been much a rivalry.

I'll debate Magic vs Larry as players, but not as leaders. And that first year Celtic team needed a better leader than player.

LMAO...I don't think you realize that Magic, as a rookie, won the title without Kareem. when Kareem went down with an injury, Magic started the title game for the Lakers at CENTER, as a muthafuckin rookie...i'm sorry, but nothing Larry Legend did in his rookie year could rival that, no matter how hard u sit there and try pushing "Larry>Magic"...Magic was an amazing player, as was Bird, but Magic was able to do things Larry could only dream of.


still, neither Magic nor Bird were able to threepeate...Kobe is on the verge of doing it for a second time, with a lesser supporting cast.

Yeah but they were still up 3-2 in the finals with Kareem. Being greater in his rookie season in one game doesn't make it a better season. And still even with out Kareem the Lakers were way better than the Celtics (with out Larry). It's very simple, the 80 Lakers with out Magic still make the playoffs, the 79/80 Celtics do not, with out Larry.

you act like making the playoffs is some amazing feat LOL. brandon jennings led his team to the playoffs as a rookie last year...if larry won a title as a rookie, different story, but as it is, he definitely didn't do anything in his rookie season that puts him above magic.

If Larry as a rookie was the only rookie in league history that could have taken that 79/80 squad, to not only the playoffs, but the conference finals then yeah it is some amazing feat. But that's all speculation.

What isn't isn't speculation is winning the rookie of the year award. And who was the MVP that year again? Oh, yeah the guy Magic got to play with all year. It's very simple, if Kareem had been on Boston in 79/80 instead of LA, Larry would have started out his career with a ring. If you think anything else I will not respond to any of your posts ever again. I promise.

LOL..who cares. lets disclude that first title year.. when Bird got his cast, it was still Magic who came out on top with 4 titles to Larry's 3 (even with a career shortened due to aids). Magic was simply the better overall player. not to say that Bird wasn't up there, cuz he was, but my preference would most definitely be Magic over Bird.