What do you think of LeBron's overall performance in the Finals?

[Sccit]

lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!

LMAO@acting like Kobe isn't up there amongst the GOATS. shame on u, especially since ur a Spurs fan and Kobe has shitted all over ur team a whole lot this past decade.

[Sccit]

Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.

And really, MJ far exceeds Magic.  MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed.  MJ never got swept in his prime.  Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender

are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.

[Sccit]

lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!

True. Kobe is a great player, top 10 ever j think.  But he has never put his stamp on a finals series, and doesn't have a defining finals game, definitely not one of the top 20 games ever. 

Game 5 of the 2000 NBA Finals could be considered a defining finals game. As for stamp on a finals series, he did average 26.8 points, 51.4% shooting, 5.8 rebounds, 5.3 assists in the 2002 Finals, but that was against the pathetic Nets.

LOL...Kobe had a defining Finals game at the age that MJ was still in college...these suckaz just don't know...............

[Chamillitary Click]

I love when NIK gets all emotional. Keep fighting those arguments you physically & statistically cannot prove.

[teecee]

Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.

And really, MJ far exceeds Magic.  MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed.  MJ never got swept in his prime.  Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender

are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.

First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash.  I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though.  I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments.  Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson?  As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed?   No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season.  Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three).  Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)

As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise.   Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them

[Sccit]

Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.

And really, MJ far exceeds Magic.  MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed.  MJ never got swept in his prime.  Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender

are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.

First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash.  I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though.  I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments.  Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson?  As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed?   No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season.  Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three).  Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)

As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise.   Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them

Magic's defense was not trash...it was like LeBron's defense is currently, sometimes on, sometimes off, depending on the match-up...But overall, he was a decent defender...regardless, the Showtime Lakers were never defensive oriented teams in the first place. What Magic lacked for in defense, he made up for in other areas...for instance, Jordan's court vision was no where near Magic's....Also, Magic had the luxury of Kareem, but Jordan had the luxury of Pippen, who was considered by many the best perimeter defender on the Bulls. Bottom line, Magic and Jordan are in the same category...same with Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, amongst others...Jordan had easy match-ups in the Finals, but he did have his struggles in the playoffs, when facing tougher oppositions....Also, lets not forget, Kobe, in his physical prime, was stuck on a D-League level roster for 3 straight years...different circumstances bring different situations, and that's exactly what it is....like u said, MJ was placed in a spot where he could immediately contribute amazing stats, the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect... the team he struggled with early on and collected all the jaw-dropping stats on during those down years were built into great teams by the time he reached his physical prime...as far as ability goes, there is nothing that makes MJ on another level compared to the other all-time greats...circumstances and marketing were nearly perfect, but as a player, he's right there with the other greats.

[teecee]

Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.

And really, MJ far exceeds Magic.  MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed.  MJ never got swept in his prime.  Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender

are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.

First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash.  I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though.  I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments.  Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson?  As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed?   No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season.  Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three).  Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)

As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise.   Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them

Magic's defense was not trash...it was like LeBron's defense is currently, sometimes on, sometimes off, depending on the match-up...But overall, he was a decent defender...regardless, the Showtime Lakers were never defensive oriented teams in the first place. What Magic lacked for in defense, he made up for in other areas...for instance, Jordan's court vision was no where near Magic's....Also, Magic had the luxury of Kareem, but Jordan had the luxury of Pippen, who was considered by many the best perimeter defender on the Bulls. Bottom line, Magic and Jordan are in the same category...same with Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, amongst others...Jordan had easy match-ups in the Finals, but he did have his struggles in the playoffs, when facing tougher oppositions....Also, lets not forget, Kobe, in his physical prime, was stuck on a D-League level roster for 3 straight years...different circumstances bring different situations, and that's exactly what it is....like u said, MJ was placed in a spot where he could immediately contribute amazing stats, the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect... the team he struggled with early on and collected all the jaw-dropping stats on during those down years were built into great teams by the time he reached his physical prime...as far as ability goes, there is nothing that makes MJ on another level compared to the other all-time greats...circumstances and marketing were nearly perfect, but as a player, he's right there with the other greats.

So Magic's defense was like Bron's?!  Let's move on then...

Again, when, besides against Orlando, did Jordan struggle, aside from a game here or there? 

NOw, i admitted that MJ was put in a situation that helped his stats.  You agree, saying " the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect"...his early years are similar then, to Kobe's "D-League" years? 

What you don't seem to respond to is the fact that both Magic and KOBE joined teams that had the best center in the league.  Yes, it likely impacted Kobe's stats in his first few years, but would he have 5 championships without joining a team WITH Shaq?  What would Kobe's career look like if he JOINED a shit team, like the one's Lebron and Jordan joined? 

[Sccit]

Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.

And really, MJ far exceeds Magic.  MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed.  MJ never got swept in his prime.  Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender

are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.

First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash.  I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though.  I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments.  Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson?  As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed?   No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season.  Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three).  Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)

As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise.   Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them

Magic's defense was not trash...it was like LeBron's defense is currently, sometimes on, sometimes off, depending on the match-up...But overall, he was a decent defender...regardless, the Showtime Lakers were never defensive oriented teams in the first place. What Magic lacked for in defense, he made up for in other areas...for instance, Jordan's court vision was no where near Magic's....Also, Magic had the luxury of Kareem, but Jordan had the luxury of Pippen, who was considered by many the best perimeter defender on the Bulls. Bottom line, Magic and Jordan are in the same category...same with Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, amongst others...Jordan had easy match-ups in the Finals, but he did have his struggles in the playoffs, when facing tougher oppositions....Also, lets not forget, Kobe, in his physical prime, was stuck on a D-League level roster for 3 straight years...different circumstances bring different situations, and that's exactly what it is....like u said, MJ was placed in a spot where he could immediately contribute amazing stats, the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect... the team he struggled with early on and collected all the jaw-dropping stats on during those down years were built into great teams by the time he reached his physical prime...as far as ability goes, there is nothing that makes MJ on another level compared to the other all-time greats...circumstances and marketing were nearly perfect, but as a player, he's right there with the other greats.

So Magic's defense was like Bron's?!  Let's move on then...

Again, when, besides against Orlando, did Jordan struggle, aside from a game here or there? 

NOw, i admitted that MJ was put in a situation that helped his stats.  You agree, saying " the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect"...his early years are similar then, to Kobe's "D-League" years? 

What you don't seem to respond to is the fact that both Magic and KOBE joined teams that had the best center in the league.  Yes, it likely impacted Kobe's stats in his first few years, but would he have 5 championships without joining a team WITH Shaq?  What would Kobe's career look like if he JOINED a shit team, like the one's Lebron and Jordan joined? 

if Kobe were given Jordan's opportunity and had an elite contending team built around him throughout all of his prime years, 8 straight titles woulda been very possible, considering he'd never retire for baseball ala Jordan....and i never said Magic's defense was like LeBron's, I only compared their defense in a sense that sometimes they defend really good and sometimes pay less attention on the d, depending on assignment....anyways, the bottom line is that Magic, Jordan, and Kobe are all in the same category, while LeBron isn't....dispute that all u want, but it's pretty obvious to those who know that marketing has unquestionably overinflated MJ's status amongst the NBA greats to the casual NBA fan and general public.

[Tha A]

I remember about that thread that had Bird vs LeBron skill wise... I said LeBron could reach and even surpass bird but now I take that back (at least until he proves me wrong, very hard now). I mean Larry averaged like 25/9.5/9.5 over 6 games in 86 finals. That's what a true champion does, even when he was being doubled or tripled team. LeBron had the team to take it all, and as great as the Mavs were playing (I congratulate them) they were not an all time great really strong team

First of all he wrecked his legacy by moving to the Heat, he was what Jordan was to the Bulls, Magic or Kobe to the Lakers, Bird to the Celtics, Wade to the Heat... or even more... now he lost that forever, but whatever, that's his decision, he's a grown man.

Now I was watching him through the playoffs thinking he took over the team and was gonna go all the way blowing by everybody but that finals performance was just horrible, not worthy of a true hall of famer or goat, even disspearing in the 4th quarter.

Gotta admit I was disappointed.

[Tha A]

And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.

[theremedy360]

And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.

It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).

[Tha A]

And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.

It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).

no doubt

[teecee]

And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.

It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).

no doubt

I saw Jordan play extensively; he's the best I've ever seen, and I started watching in the late 80's.  No one since is on his level.  As for before that, its a tough call.  A lot of shit is subjective, but intangibles, opinions, and MEDIA and ADVERTISING INFLUENCE aside, his 6 titles, 6 MVP's, career PPG, and numerous other accolades is all that is needed.  None of that shit has to do with marketing or media.

[teecee]

NIK:  I guess Kobe playing with Shaq really held Kobe back.  This would explain why, despite playing a few more games overall than Jordan, Kobe is

1000 STEALS,
1000 REBOUNDS
600  ASSISTS
300 BLOCKS
(Don't make me mention points, or any playoff stats.  It's not fair)

behind Jordan.


over 200 more turnovers too.  Must all be because of playing with Shaq.  Or the media.  Or advertising.  Or the refs.    No hyperbole, opinion, or any explanation needed.  Jordan was on some next shit.  If you guys only remember watching him on the Wizards, or even in his last few years with the Bulls, then you don't get it.  Yes, dude was a fucking asshole.  Most of these guys are.

[teecee]

Shaq at it again!!!  The media!!!  Nike and Gatorade!!!

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png

The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point.   He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games.  I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ.  And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).   


Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan.  People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts.  Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc.  Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.