Fred Wreck on a Death Row Album(2002-Gangsta Rap Instrumental????)

[love33]

Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)

Two things. "Gangsta Rap" wasn't a radio single. And your little made-up fact just came home to bite you in the ass because K-DAY WAS OFF THE AIR IN 2002! It went off the air in the 90's and didn't get ressurected until 2004.

"Gangsta Rap" was a radio single -- they made an instrumental, radio edit version, and Crooked had a radio version where he does a different extended verse, and it was sent out to radio stations because they announced that on tha row's old official site, tharow.com -- I think you were the one who just got bit

http://cgi.ebay.com/THA-DOGG-POUND-Gangsta-Rap-SEALED-Nate-Dogg-Dr-Dre-/180651206069?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item2a0fa6a5b5#ht_1534wt_1037

Next, Julio G liked that track, so it was on Power not KDAY (my bad) but they used to play it in the mix.

Next, you mentioned that people would look for it on Clue's album because he screamed on it.  Not necessarily true -- Clue was screamin on a lot of tracks and he was more known for his mixtape circus than dropping actual albums.  And yeah, while a few fans knew it was on Clue's album, a lot of people didn't know where to find it because it wasn't on Jay-Z's album and when Tha Dogg Pound "2002" dropped people knew it was on there (Are you going to look for the actual artist on the track or some mixtape DJ like Clue who just screams over everything?).  The problem was is that Death Row released the TAGGED version of the cut where Clue screamed on instead of untagging it.

Again, with JT Tha Bigga Figga, that dude is a nobody from a chart perspective.  So if you hear a track with Daz, Kurupt, and Jay-Z, are you going to look for JT The Bigga Figga or the actual artists catalogs to see if you can find it...the sales explain that.

Finally:  http://www.billboard.com/artist/tha-dogg-pound/chart-history/142260?f=333&g=Albums#/artist/tha-dogg-pound/chart-history/142260?f=333&g=Albums
The album peaked at #15 and was the third most successful Dogg Pound album only behind Cali Iz Active and Dogg Food.

[Jimmy H.]

Julio G liked that track, so it was on Power not KDAY (my bad) but they used to play it in the mix.

Again, where do you get this info from? Julio G never worked for Power 106 and the DJ's personal tastes don't dictate musical rotation at most radio stations anyway. They have some say during specific points when they do "mix shows" and such but the big radio stations all are driven by sponsors and ratings, they play top 40 singles.

Next, you mentioned that people would look for it on Clue's album because he screamed on it.  Not necessarily true -- Clue was screamin on a lot of tracks and he was more known for his mixtape circus than dropping actual albums.  And yeah, while a few fans knew it was on Clue's album, a lot of people didn't know where to find it because it wasn't on Jay-Z's album and when Tha Dogg Pound "2002" dropped people knew it was on there (Are you going to look for the actual artist on the track or some mixtape DJ like Clue who just screams over everything?).  The problem was is that Death Row released the TAGGED version of the cut where Clue screamed on instead of untagging it.

There has never been, to my knowledge, anything but a TAGGED version of the song as it was meant to be an "exclusive" for DJ Clue. Clue wasn't screaming on a lot of tracks. He tags his tapes and probably songs he plays on his mix shows but untagged versions of all that stuff are available. However if you have something that's only available on his album where another untagged version never surfaced, you would need to play that.

[love33]

Clue and Jay-Z has the untagged version and if Suge bought copies of the master recording (which I'm sure he did, he's not a dumb businessman who would drop a bunch of money for an mp3 file), then he likely had the untagged version too.  My guess is that they left the tagged version on there because the track might be more recognizable with the tags for appeal OR they forgot to remove it (Death Row is known to make mistakes on their albums, they did spell Snoop's names wrong on the original pressings of The Chronic and put a faulty tracklist on the back of the OG copies of Doggystyle, to name a couple examples).

As far as you asking me to prove an LA radio playlist from 2001, there's no way of that happening unless you can call Power106 or ThaBeat and ask them, but know this:  "Gangsta Rap" received minimal spins for a very short time in the LA market and "Change The Game Remix" got spins allover the country.  An album doesn't move the units "2002" moved without having some sort of single to go along with it, and for that album, it was a combination of the single and the advertisement they put into it (which was not bad, but wasn't Interscope by any stretch).

Also, ask yourself this: why would Suge spend his power and influence to secure that track if there was no sales that it would generate?  Suge's not a dumb businessman, I know you wouldn't buy anything that didn't have a return on it, and same with me or anyone else who has a half of brain wouldn't waste our money if we could just put some other track from the vault on it without having to deal or spend money.

[Jimmy H.]

Clue and Jay-Z has the untagged version and if Suge bought copies of the master recording (which I'm sure he did, he's not a dumb businessman who would drop a bunch of money for an mp3 file), then he likely had the untagged version too.

I doubt Suge bought the master though. He licensed it it. The same way JT did. He was still in prison when this album was put together and pressed so he had minimal involvement anyway.

As far as you asking me to prove an LA radio playlist from 2001, there's no way of that happening unless you can call Power106 or ThaBeat and ask them, but know this:  "Gangsta Rap" received minimal spins for a very short time in the LA market and "Change The Game Remix" got spins allover the country.
I'm not asking for a list. I'm asking for a source as to why you believe any of this to be factual. Any time a record is played on a major radio station, artists and record labels get residuals. Billboard keeps records. Death Row was shipping all their singles to radio but very little of them were being played. The remix of "Change The Game" was never released as a radio single so it's very odd that DJ's on both radio and in the club would randomly decide to play it, especially when it was never, to my knowledge, on the Billboard Hot 100.

An album doesn't move the units "2002" moved without having some sort of single to go along with it, and for that album, it was a combination of the single and the advertisement they put into it (which was not bad, but wasn't Interscope by any stretch).

"Dead Man Walking" sold more units than "2002" and Priority blocked radio from touching any of the singles on that one. Game's "Untold Story" sold very well and that didn't have radio singles or artist support. Good marketing and advertising will get you plenty of places in terms of selling.

Also, ask yourself this: why would Suge spend his power and influence to secure that track if there was no sales that it would generate?

What power and influence does it take to spend money, which Death Row had quite a bit of at that time, to license a fucking song? Get Low lincensed the same exact song so it's not like it required some huge stroke to get it. And a song doesn't have to be a hit radio hit to be a good investment. How many tracks on an album make it on to the radio? Usually one at most. Two if you're hot. Three if you're really fucking hot. And four, if you're a fucking superstar. Yet record labels still pay for every song on the album.

Suge's not a dumb businessman, I know you wouldn't buy anything that didn't have a return on it, and same with me or anyone else who has a half of brain wouldn't waste our money if we could just put some other track from the vault on it without having to deal or spend money.

Well, given that Jay-Z is a major name, licensing a song like that, is a no-brainer. It also has the added punch of being a newer Dogg Pound song and since the group wasn't fucking with Suge at the time, having some recent material without having to deal with them directly is worth something. Just because the song wasn't a smash radio hit, doesn't mean there isn't value on it. For Clue, it's probably all found money anyway. His album has been on store shelves for months, it's the same version with his tags on it that he put out.

Again, your big problem is there are no solid facts to re-enforce your theories here. Music is a billion-dollar industry, my friend. Radio stations and large-venue clubs with DJ's follow a specific formula. I don't need a playlist to tell me that next to nothing from post-Interscope-era Death Row got much play on any radio stations. I can in knowing how radio works tell you that if a record isn't breaking top 40 in either or both Los Angeles and New York that it's probably not getting too many spins on a nationwide level. Regional acts will get play in their region but you're not likely to have a major hit song in Kentucky, Phoenix, Alabama, and Miami that isn't a hit in NY or LA. Especially not in 2001. Being that you didn't know K-Day wasn't active at that time or what station Julio G. worked for, I'm drawing the conclusion that your knowledge on the L.A. radio scene probably isn't coming from first-hand experience. This is why I asked you where your info is coming from.

[love33]

Again, your big problem is there are no solid facts to re-enforce your theories here. Music is a billion-dollar industry, my friend. Radio stations and large-venue clubs with DJ's follow a specific formula. I don't need a playlist to tell me that next to nothing from post-Interscope-era Death Row got much play on any radio stations. I can in knowing how radio works tell you that if a record isn't breaking top 40 in either or both Los Angeles and New York that it's probably not getting too many spins on a nationwide level. Regional acts will get play in their region but you're not likely to have a major hit song in Kentucky, Phoenix, Alabama, and Miami that isn't a hit in NY or LA. Especially not in 2001. Being that you didn't know K-Day wasn't active at that time or what station Julio G. worked for, I'm drawing the conclusion that your knowledge on the L.A. radio scene probably isn't coming from first-hand experience. This is why I asked you where your info is coming from.

I just gave you the facts -- the sales and the single that was sent out to radio stations ("Gangsta Rap").  We both agree that "Gangsta Rap" got shit radio play the only difference is that you don't believe it got any spins and I know it was played at a minimal level in the LA market.  "Change The Game Remix" was a single from Clue that Tha Dogg Pound album piggybacked off of for sales.  That's it.

As far as your radio theory, it might be true in some circumstances but Love Rance "Beat The Pussy Up" is a #1 hit record on KMEL in Oakland/San Francisco and they don't even play it in Florida.

[OG Jaydc]

You typing something doesn't make it a fact.You've yet to add any actual proof of what you've written, all I see is just a ton of hearsay and Jimmy correcting all the lies you write.

[love33]

You typing something doesn't make it a fact.You've yet to add any actual proof of what you've written, all I see is just a ton of hearsay and Jimmy correcting all the lies you write.

I backed my shit up with facts and linked URLs.

[OG Jaydc]

You've proven gangsta rap was a single and that 2002 peaked at # 15 and nothing else.You've yet to provide proof of 2002 selling 400,00 or any of the other " facts"

[Quadruple OG]

You typing something doesn't make it a fact.You've yet to add any actual proof of what you've written, all I see is just a ton of hearsay and Jimmy correcting all the lies you write.

I backed my shit up with facts and linked URLs.

Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.

[Jimmy H.]

We both agree that "Gangsta Rap" got shit radio play the only difference is that you don't believe it got any spins and I know it was played at a minimal level in the LA market.  "Change The Game Remix" was a single from Clue that Tha Dogg Pound album piggybacked off of for sales.  That's it.

Allow me to break down what I believe so we're not confused. I tend to doubt that "Gangsta Rap" got any spins on LA radio but anything is possible. If a credible person said it got X amount of spins, I might believe it but I tend to think you don't have any idea one way or the other if it did or didn't so I don't believe you. You have this pattern of randomly throwing out stastics about what songs got how much play on what stations or at what clubs but you don't have any real way of knowing. You're basically guessing and trying to pass it off like you're in the know. "Change The Game" remix wasn't a single. It was an album cut from Clue's retail mixtape "Professional 2" that he happened to license to other labels for use on their projet (Death Row being one, Get Low being another). It didn't blow up the radio, hence why there is no record of it on the Billboard hot singles chart.

A lot of time has passed since those days so it's easy to mistake the Jay deal. I confused the two myself in another thread. But Suge was incarcerated when that album was being put together. He didn't have a deal with Jay-Z at that point and given that he ended up with the same tagged remix as everybody else, I doubt Death Row even talked to Jay and likely dealt directly with Clue. The song Suge got for clearing "Me and My Girlfriend" for Jay's album was the remix of "Hovi Baby" that showed up on the Dysfunktional Family soundtrack.

[Recognize]

Love33 is correct about one thing. Gangsta rap did get very minimal play on one of the LA stations (can't remember if it was power or the beat). I ado agree with Jimmy H about the Change Da Game Remix. I highly doubt that got major spin nationwide. I dont even remember really hearing it out here in Cali much. Whatever the album sales were for "2002" can most likely be attributed to marketing/promotion and the guest list. The singles didnt really create any buzz for this album.

[OG Hack Wilson]

Love33 is correct about one thing. Gangsta rap did get very minimal play on one of the LA stations (can't remember if it was power or the beat). I ado agree with Jimmy H about the Change Da Game Remix. I highly doubt that got major spin nationwide. I dont even remember really hearing it out here in Cali much. Whatever the album sales were for "2002" can most likely be attributed to marketing/promotion and the guest list. The singles didnt really create any buzz for this album.

yeah, I mean when you got 2pac, Crooked I, Snoop, Jay-z etc. guesting on your shit it's gonna sell

[OG Jaydc]

Lmao @ slipping crooked is name among them. He didn't help them sell.

[love33]

Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.

That can only be proved by asking Suge himself. All we do know is that "Change The Game Remix" sampled Makaveli "Hail Mary" so Clue/Jay-Z would've had to get Suge's permission to use the sample.  He could have traded 2 Makaveli samples for rights to release "Change The Game Remix" and a completely different track for Suge's dysfunktional family ("Hovi Baby") for the second sample ("Me and My Girlfriend").  Someone would have to ask Suge the exact deal.  But we do know that 2 Makaveli samples were authorized by Death Row that Jay-Z rapped on so of course they were doing business.

Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.

My source is Damon X, Above The Law's manager, and ThaRow.Com's admins on the forums for the official Row site confirmed that "Too Gangsta For Radio" and "2002" were "Gold Together."  TGFR sold around 30k last I heard, thus Tha Dogg Pound "2002" must be over 400k if they are "Gold Together," as confirmed by the official web admins and damon x.  Next, there is no way to RIAA this information because it wasn't a Gold album individually, and also Tha Row never sent in their paperwork so all we have are the billboard chart numbers.  D3 would know the exact units but they are now out of operation.

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

what kind of a debate is this?
arguin over if a song was a single or not for 3 pages? i dont get it..

"Change the game (remix)" was a great song, and the video to the "Dynasty"-version was classic (wit Beanie Sigel stopping the truck wit his body) - id like to hear the o.g. to the remix, wit Bad Azz and 40 Glocc someday