Jordan never took tough shots the way Kobe does...

[Russell Bell]

LOL jor-don

[Sccit]

i stopped taking u seriously in the opening sentence, when u said "MJ didn't have better teammates"....LMFAO. and no, the main reason why Kobe's field goal percentage is lower is because he has three point range, while Jordan didn't. Players who shoot threes naturally have lower field goal percentages. you know, Shaq also shot more efficiently than Jordan...u know why? BECAUSE HE HAD LESS RANGE. as for teammates, i'm not talking about the kobe-shaq teams..those teams were amazing and on par with the Bulls....but ever since Shaq left, Kobe hasn't had ANY teams comparable to the Bulls. Scottie Pippen, at one point, was regarded the 2nd best player in the NBA behind Jordan. dude literally did EVERYTHING. on defense, he was assigned the best player on the perimeter and would typically lock them down. on offense, he was a point forward who ran the offense to perfection. If Kobe had a player like Pippen to play with for these past 10 years, believe that he would currently have more rings than just 5. then you have Horace Grant, who was also an all-star, so was BJ Armstrong...Dennis Rodman was the greatest rebounder in NBA history...Ron Harper was the perfect vet to run point in the triangle...dependable sharp shooters like Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Toni Kukoc, etc. who the Lakers NEVER had (especially not this year). and most of all, great team play. Those sort of luxuries open the game for players like Jordan, and Kobe has not had them in these past few years. I've said it before, the year Kobe went back-to-back, he did it with WAY less than Jordan ever did it with.

now, u say we had 2 of the top big men in the league when Kobe won....nope. Bynum was injured and didn't even play or got limited minutes. Gasol was playing big those years, but he hasn't been consistent, and in terms of a second option, he's NEVER been comparable to a player like Pippen. Jordan never had bigs? shiiit, he had Rodman, who locked down the opposing big night in and night out...thats more than we can say for Gasol. and yes, being the greatest rebounder of all time is pretty big, as well.


and the NBA today isn't "so much greater"...but the athleticism has definitely gone way up. Jordan played mostly against a bunch of slow aging players on the perimeter. It wasn't a superstar filled league like today where you have Durant, Wade, LeBron, Melo, etc. jumpin out the buildin...i dont care what the Pistons did in the 80s, zone defense rules were completely different back then, and yes, it was illegal. Like i said, defenses were way less crowded on the perimeter back then. this is just common sense.....oh yea, and despite the fact that he was old, Jordan was pretty mediocre during his run with the Wizards. Kobe schooled him in one game, I will never forget, I was there. Kobe scored 42 points in the first half against him! he rested most of the second, but that shit was straight mind-blowing back then. If Kobe had the same luxuries as Jordan, who knows how many rings he'd have?

I stopped taking you seriously after I read that BJ Amstrong was an All-Star... LOL.

I've said in my previous post, that Kobe never had a player like Pippen around him. But talentwise - his teamates had better basketball talent overall. If you think BJ Amstrong was an "All-Star" talent, or played at an "All-Star" level, then players like Artest should be called "Hall Of Famers" at least.

Michael had a solid 3-point range, but he didn't used it as much as Kobe simply because he had better shot selections than Mr. Bryant and was able to create better shot opportunities for himself due to his bigger body and higher athleticism. Michael was also more efficient and scored a lot easier because he let the triangle offense work for him, while Kobe is much more passive is his role, taking tougher shots and making his teamates just stand around and watch. I agree that Kobe is slightly better at 3-point shooting than MJ was, but he ain't a great 3-point shooter himself like you trying to pretend he is.

And please tell me, what's your definition of a BIG MAN? Cause Dennis Rodman was 6-7, 210 lbs and he wasen't a BIG MAN by any standars. Yes, he was a great rebounder and a great defender but on the other side of the floor - he was useless on offense and you know it. So don't compare his offensive contribution to Bynum and Gasol. Even if they're playing soft and with no heart - they still got better offensive numbers than Worm.

"Jordan played mostly against a bunch of slow aging players on the perimeter. It wasn't a superstar filled league like today..." - wrong again. Back then, the NBA had just as much talent as today. Jordan was guarded by Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Ray Allen, Latrell Sprewell, Hersey Hawkins, Nick Anderson and so on. Not to mention elite defenders like Payton or Dumars who were shorter than Mike but their defensive skills were incredible. Naming them "slow, aging players" is a ridiculous statement and it clearly shows you will turn everything around just to prove your point.

Oh, and since averaging 20 points, 6 rebounds, 4 asists for a 40-year old guy that's playing with an injured leg is "MEDICIORE", than LOL - I don't have anything else to say. But since you so in love with statistics, how your feeling with a fact, that a 40-year old Jordan had better steal & block shots numbers than Kobe had this & last season?

Plus Kobe didn't schooled Jordan in that 55-point game of his - most of Kobe's points were made when he was guarded by Jerry Stackhouse. He scored 42 points against Washington Wizards - not Michael Jordan. Get your facts straight and stop lying to people.

well, BJ Armstrong WAS an all-star, so wtf are u saying? u tryna argue whether he was an all-star or not? come on, now LOL. fact of the matter is, as Ted pointed out, Kobe has won with way less than Jordan, especially in his second three-peat. Kobe won with ZERO hall-of-famers on his team, while Jordan had TWO future hall-of-famers in his supporting cast. big difference. as for Kobe's three point range, it's true that he hasn't been as great recently, with his finger and wrist injuries...but prior to his last two seasons with the fucked up hand, he was regarded as one of the best and purest shooters in the game. shit, he even holds the NBA record for most threes made in a game.

And now Dennis Rodman isn't a big man? smh...what position did Rodman play? forget his height, dude was ALWAYS assigned to the opposing teams best big, and was a premier defender and rebounder playing POWER FORWARD. Charles Barkley was 6"4', was he also not a big man? height don't matter, if u play big, ur a big man. and they didn't need him in the offense...the Bulls ran their offense through the perimeter, Rodman was just there to clean up the glass and shut down the opposition, as he did. dude was HUGE.

now, look at the perimeter players of jordan's era that u named....the best ones were clyde drexler and joe dumars, and they were both out of their prime when jordan finally started winning. face it, the athleticism of the wings wasn't what it is today. theres no way around that. gary payton? LOL...he was a point guard. jordan was facing byron russell and hersey hawkins on the wing in the finals of his second threepeat. back then, most of the best players were bigs... today's league is much different.

and who cares if jordan averaged 20 points and better blocks n steals on a team that couldnt even make the playoffs? was he on any all-defense teams in those years?? come on..ur lookin kinda funny right about now tryna defend wizards jordan and pinnin him up against Kobe LOL. and I really don't give a fuck who Kobe scored 42 points in a half against. fact of the matter is, that shit was amazin, regardless. it was the final kobe vs. jordan showdown, and jordan's final game in LA. shit was epic.

[Mietek23]

well, BJ Armstrong WAS an all-star, so wtf are u saying? u tryna argue whether he was an all-star or not? come on, now LOL. fact of the matter is, as Ted pointed out, Kobe has won with way less than Jordan, especially in his second three-peat. Kobe won with ZERO hall-of-famers on his team, while Jordan had TWO future hall-of-famers in his supporting cast. big difference. as for Kobe's three point range, it's true that he hasn't been as great recently, with his finger and wrist injuries...but prior to his last two seasons with the fucked up hand, he was regarded as one of the best and purest shooters in the game. shit, he even holds the NBA record for most threes made in a game.

And now Dennis Rodman isn't a big man? smh...what position did Rodman play? forget his height, dude was ALWAYS assigned to the opposing teams best big, and was a premier defender and rebounder playing POWER FORWARD. Charles Barkley was 6"4', was he also not a big man? height don't matter, if u play big, ur a big man. and they didn't need him in the offense...the Bulls ran their offense through the perimeter, Rodman was just there to clean up the glass and shut down the opposition, as he did. dude was HUGE.

now, look at the perimeter players of jordan's era that u named....the best ones were clyde drexler and joe dumars, and they were both out of their prime when jordan finally started winning. face it, the athleticism of the wings wasn't what it is today. theres no way around that. gary payton? LOL...he was a point guard. jordan was facing byron russell and hersey hawkins on the wing in the finals of his second threepeat. back then, most of the best players were bigs... today's league is much different.

and who cares if jordan averaged 20 points and better blocks n steals on a team that couldnt even make the playoffs? was he on any all-defense teams in those years?? come on..ur lookin kinda funny right about now tryna defend wizards jordan and pinnin him up against Kobe LOL. and I really don't give a fuck who Kobe scored 42 points in a half against. fact of the matter is, that shit was amazin, regardless. it was the final kobe vs. jordan showdown, and jordan's final game in LA. shit was epic.

BJ Armstrong was voted in an All-Star Game ONCE, in 1994 when Bulls were playing without Jordan. Just cause he has ONE All-Star appearance, dosen't mean he's an ALL-STAR talent and can be consider one. Specially, when your career average is only 10 points, 2 rebounds and 3 asists - THAT IS NOT AN ALL-STAR LEVEL OF PLAY. Bill Cartwright also played in one All-Star game back in 1980, but you ain't going to consider him being and All-Star Player, will you? With that being said, BJ was a solid baller and he definitely had his role in Chicago first 3-peat.

Let's move on to the next subject.


"Kobe has won with way less than Jordan, especially in his second three-peat." So your suggesting, that when Lakers won their first 3-peat, they still had less talent than 91-93 Bulls? Even tho, you've said in your previous post that QUOTE: "i'm not talking about the kobe-shaq teams..those teams were amazing and on par with the Bulls". So which one is it?

Now to the Kobe's 3-point shooting. Prior to his last 2 seasons, he was 35% from 3-point line in 08-09 season which isin't great or even close to mind blowing. I agree, he has great range from beyond the line, but that does not mean he is a great 3-point shooter. Reggie Miller was a great 3-point shooter - Kobe is a good 3-point shooter, even if he holds the NBA record for most threes made in a game. Michael once had a record for most 3-pointers made in a half durning NBA Finals, but that dosen't mean he was a great 3-point shooter. He was GOOD, not GREAT - same goes for Kobe.


This is the part I really like. So your saying, that the only good players Jordan faced on the perimeter were Drexler and Dumars, and "they were both out of their prime when jordan finally started winning"... REALLY? Hmm, let's see.

When MJ started winning (1990-1991 Season) Drexler averaged 21.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 6.0 asists, 1.8 steals and 0.7 blocks per game. In 1992 season he moved up to 25 points per game, with 6.6 rebounds, 6.7 asists, 1.8 steals and 0.9 blocks following. He shot at least 47% from the field and 79% from the free throw line, not to mention he played about only 35 minutes a game in those years. Blazers finished with a 63-19 record in 90-91 and 57-25 in 91-92. In the finals against Bulls, he was balling even more going for 26.3 pts/per game, 7.4 rebounds and 7.0 asists.

Not bad for a player, that you said was "out of his prime" - LOL. Who your trying to fool around here?

Same goes for Dumars - yes, Pistons championship run was over, but Joe was still playing at a high level averaging at least 20 point and 4 asists durning Bulls first 3-peat. And I ain't even consider him to be in a Top 2 perimeter players Jordan faced durning Bulls first championship run.

You excluded one of the greatest pure shooters in NBA history in Reggie Miller, who played with even greater intense against MJ than Dumars in my opinion. Same goes for Mitch Richmond, one of the most underrated pure shooters in the history of the NBA, that been balling hard up until Jordan's final championship, averaging at least 22 points per game. And so what Gary Payton was a point guard? He was a great defender and was guarding MJ a lot, not only in NBA Finals and did a great job with it. Starks was 2 inches shorter than Michael, but he could guard like crazy. Plus don't forget that a prime Grant Hill was also playing on the perimeter, defending against Jordan i a lot of games. Not to mention prime Penny Hardaway or Latrell Sprewell, who was an explosive player durning his heyday. There was also a large group of good players that didn't used all of their potential in the NBA like Cedric Ceballos, Nick Anderson, Steve Smith or Kendall Gill, who put pressure on Jordan with their tough defense...

You like to pretend Michael only faced "short white guys" like Craig Ehlo, who didn't match his athleticism, but you like to forget that durning the 90's, NBA had some great pure shooters that were "white" and "unathletic" by your standards. Ever saw a prime Chris Mullin playing? Or Drazen Petrovic (who Reggie Miller once said he was the best shooter he ever play against)? I guess not, judging what ridiculous statements of yours I've been reading here in every topic regarding MJ for quite some time...


"who cares if jordan averaged 20 points and better blocks n steals on a team that couldnt even make the playoffs?" See, here you go again, trying to turn everything around to your favor in this argument.

So, let me get this straight - when a 40-year old Jordan is playing his last NBA season on a bad team with a bad leg, and he's still going head to head with most of the NBA players in their athletic prime, while putting All-Star numbers - it's "MEDICORE" because his team didn't make the Play-Offs. So how will you judge Kobe's 04-05 season, when he was NBA's 2nd best player with 27.6 points and a career-high 6 asists per game - he was balling on a bad team, so what do you have to say about it? Was it mind blowing, because he had great season individually, or you don't care because the Lakers didn't make the Play-Off?


If someone here is looking hella funny - it is you my friend. Let me QUOTE you again"

First you've said: "Kobe schooled him in one game, I will never forget, I was there. Kobe scored 42 points in the first half against him!" reffering to MJ last game in LA. Then, when I proved to you most of Kobe's points came when he was guarded by Jerry Stackhouse, and he scored 55 points against Washington Wizards, not just Michael Jordan - what do you do? You just turn things around to make a point in your favor, saying "I really don't give a fuck who Kobe scored 42 points in a half against." So please, make up your mind.



See, now I know why people get so irritated, trying to have a legit conversation with you. It's because your being 100% blind with your love for Kobe and you won't admit Mr. Bryant DOES mistakes on a basketball court, which he DOES by the way. So stop defend him all the time and face it he ain't a perfect basketball player neither is he THE GREATEST ONE.

He's ONE OF THE GREATEST in Basketball history - plain and simple.

[Chamillitary Click]

LOL, NIK is getting ethered.

This conversation will flip to NIK throwing personal insults, trying to change the subject from basketball within the next three posts lmao.

[Sccit]

well, BJ Armstrong WAS an all-star, so wtf are u saying? u tryna argue whether he was an all-star or not? come on, now LOL. fact of the matter is, as Ted pointed out, Kobe has won with way less than Jordan, especially in his second three-peat. Kobe won with ZERO hall-of-famers on his team, while Jordan had TWO future hall-of-famers in his supporting cast. big difference. as for Kobe's three point range, it's true that he hasn't been as great recently, with his finger and wrist injuries...but prior to his last two seasons with the fucked up hand, he was regarded as one of the best and purest shooters in the game. shit, he even holds the NBA record for most threes made in a game.

And now Dennis Rodman isn't a big man? smh...what position did Rodman play? forget his height, dude was ALWAYS assigned to the opposing teams best big, and was a premier defender and rebounder playing POWER FORWARD. Charles Barkley was 6"4', was he also not a big man? height don't matter, if u play big, ur a big man. and they didn't need him in the offense...the Bulls ran their offense through the perimeter, Rodman was just there to clean up the glass and shut down the opposition, as he did. dude was HUGE.

now, look at the perimeter players of jordan's era that u named....the best ones were clyde drexler and joe dumars, and they were both out of their prime when jordan finally started winning. face it, the athleticism of the wings wasn't what it is today. theres no way around that. gary payton? LOL...he was a point guard. jordan was facing byron russell and hersey hawkins on the wing in the finals of his second threepeat. back then, most of the best players were bigs... today's league is much different.

and who cares if jordan averaged 20 points and better blocks n steals on a team that couldnt even make the playoffs? was he on any all-defense teams in those years?? come on..ur lookin kinda funny right about now tryna defend wizards jordan and pinnin him up against Kobe LOL. and I really don't give a fuck who Kobe scored 42 points in a half against. fact of the matter is, that shit was amazin, regardless. it was the final kobe vs. jordan showdown, and jordan's final game in LA. shit was epic.

BJ Armstrong was voted in an All-Star Game ONCE, in 1994 when Bulls were playing without Jordan. Just cause he has ONE All-Star appearance, dosen't mean he's an ALL-STAR talent and can be consider one. Specially, when your career average is only 10 points, 2 rebounds and 3 asists - THAT IS NOT AN ALL-STAR LEVEL OF PLAY. Bill Cartwright also played in one All-Star game back in 1980, but you ain't going to consider him being and All-Star Player, will you? With that being said, BJ was a solid baller and he definitely had his role in Chicago first 3-peat.

lol..yes. if u make it to an all-star game, u are considered an all-star. i dont care about his career averages, he was ballin during the Bulls' first threepeat.

"Kobe has won with way less than Jordan, especially in his second three-peat." So your suggesting, that when Lakers won their first 3-peat, they still had less talent than 91-93 Bulls? Even tho, you've said in your previous post that QUOTE: "i'm not talking about the kobe-shaq teams..those teams were amazing and on par with the Bulls". So which one is it?

what dont u get? i'm talkin bout kobe's last two titles...LOL. pretty obvious what i'm referring too, especially after i already clarified.

Now to the Kobe's 3-point shooting. Prior to his last 2 seasons, he was 35% from 3-point line in 08-09 season which isin't great or even close to mind blowing. I agree, he has great range from beyond the line, but that does not mean he is a great 3-point shooter. Reggie Miller was a great 3-point shooter - Kobe is a good 3-point shooter, even if he holds the NBA record for most threes made in a game. Michael once had a record for most 3-pointers made in a half durning NBA Finals, but that dosen't mean he was a great 3-point shooter. He was GOOD, not GREAT - same goes for Kobe.

Kobe had a great stroke from three...forget about the percentages, Kobe shoots a lot of percentage-busters, bail out threes with the shot-clock winding down, fadeaway threes over 2 defenders. he's not just a "catch-and-shoot wide-open threes" typa shooter, who are typically much higher in terms of percentage. when kobe had it going, he was unstoppable from behind the arc. not quite reggie miller or glen rice, but they were shooting specialists. kobe's an overall player, and his stroke has always been lightyears ahead of Jordan's..especially from long range.

This is the part I really like. So your saying, that the only good players Jordan faced on the perimeter were Drexler and Dumars, and "they were both out of their prime when jordan finally started winning"... REALLY? Hmm, let's see.

When MJ started winning (1990-1991 Season) Drexler averaged 21.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 6.0 asists, 1.8 steals and 0.7 blocks per game. In 1992 season he moved up to 25 points per game, with 6.6 rebounds, 6.7 asists, 1.8 steals and 0.9 blocks following. He shot at least 47% from the field and 79% from the free throw line, not to mention he played about only 35 minutes a game in those years. Blazers finished with a 63-19 record in 90-91 and 57-25 in 91-92. In the finals against Bulls, he was balling even more going for 26.3 pts/per game, 7.4 rebounds and 7.0 asists.

Not bad for a player, that you said was "out of his prime" - LOL. Who your trying to fool around here?

Same goes for Dumars - yes, Pistons championship run was over, but Joe was still playing at a high level averaging at least 20 point and 4 asists durning Bulls first 3-peat. And I ain't even consider him to be in a Top 2 perimeter players Jordan faced durning Bulls first championship run.

You excluded one of the greatest pure shooters in NBA history in Reggie Miller, who played with even greater intense against MJ than Dumars in my opinion. Same goes for Mitch Richmond, one of the most underrated pure shooters in the history of the NBA, that been balling hard up until Jordan's final championship, averaging at least 22 points per game. And so what Gary Payton was a point guard? He was a great defender and was guarding MJ a lot, not only in NBA Finals and did a great job with it. Starks was 2 inches shorter than Michael, but he could guard like crazy. Plus don't forget that a prime Grant Hill was also playing on the perimeter, defending against Jordan i a lot of games. Not to mention prime Penny Hardaway or Latrell Sprewell, who was an explosive player durning his heyday. There was also a large group of good players that didn't used all of their potential in the NBA like Cedric Ceballos, Nick Anderson, Steve Smith or Kendall Gill, who put pressure on Jordan with their tough defense...

You like to pretend Michael only faced "short white guys" like Craig Ehlo, who didn't match his athleticism, but you like to forget that durning the 90's, NBA had some great pure shooters that were "white" and "unathletic" by your standards. Ever saw a prime Chris Mullin playing? Or Drazen Petrovic (who Reggie Miller once said he was the best shooter he ever play against)? I guess not, judging what ridiculous statements of yours I've been reading here in every topic regarding MJ for quite some time...

bro...i dont get it? it's widely accepted that NBA wings are much more athletic nowadays, and that the shift of talent has gone from bigs to perimeter players from when jordan was playing to now. yes, reggie miller, ol' joe dumars, clyde drexler, mitch richmond, young penny hardaway, etc. were all good. but they weren't amongst the top players in the league in those days. barkley, malone, ewing, shaq, etc. were...nowadays league is being ran by durant's, lebrons, wades, etc....if u dont get what i'm saying, that's pretty awkward.

"who cares if jordan averaged 20 points and better blocks n steals on a team that couldnt even make the playoffs?" See, here you go again, trying to turn everything around to your favor in this argument.

So, let me get this straight - when a 40-year old Jordan is playing his last NBA season on a bad team with a bad leg, and he's still going head to head with most of the NBA players in their athletic prime, while putting All-Star numbers - it's "MEDICORE" because his team didn't make the Play-Offs. So how will you judge Kobe's 04-05 season, when he was NBA's 2nd best player with 27.6 points and a career-high 6 asists per game - he was balling on a bad team, so what do you have to say about it? Was it mind blowing, because he had great season individually, or you don't care because the Lakers didn't make the Play-Off?

i was just pointing out that it's dumb of u to compare wizard jordan to current kobe..that is all

If someone here is looking hella funny - it is you my friend. Let me QUOTE you again"

First you've said: "Kobe schooled him in one game, I will never forget, I was there. Kobe scored 42 points in the first half against him!" reffering to MJ last game in LA. Then, when I proved to you most of Kobe's points came when he was guarded by Jerry Stackhouse, and he scored 55 points against Washington Wizards, not just Michael Jordan - what do you do? You just turn things around to make a point in your favor, saying "I really don't give a fuck who Kobe scored 42 points in a half against." So please, make up your mind.

first of all, jordan did guard kobe for some of the game, i was there...but that wasnt my point. the showdown was billed as the final kobe vs. jordan match-up. it's not about who he scored all the points on, it's about the fact the he showed jordan who the torch now belongs to. thats all i was gettin at.

See, now I know why people get so irritated, trying to have a legit conversation with you. It's because your being 100% blind with your love for Kobe and you won't admit Mr. Bryant DOES mistakes on a basketball court, which he DOES by the way. So stop defend him all the time and face it he ain't a perfect basketball player neither is he THE GREATEST ONE.

He's ONE OF THE GREATEST in Basketball history - plain and simple.

and in my eyes, there is no GOAT...there are many different GOAT's, and Kobe is one of them. but if one wants to argue Jordan as GOAT, someone else can make a case for Kobe (especially if he wins any more rings). there could be cases made for Wilt, Magic, Russell, Kareem, etc. as well. but the fact of the matter is, EVERY player makes mistakes...there has never been a flawless player in this league. but the jordan brand/basketball media damn sure do go out of their way to make it seem like MJ was the flawless prototype of what a basketball player should be, and lots of simple-minded mufuckaz and casual basketball fans eat it up. thats all i'm really gettin at here.

[teecee]

NIK: forget media. Is MJ not the most accomplished player of all time, when you combine individual and team accomplishments? Only Jabbar is messing with him.  The media has nothing to do with how good Jordan was, only how good people perceive him to be. fact of the matter
Is Jordan hit game winners and clutch shots on a level no one had seen before, shot at an extremely high percentage for a perimeter player, was a great defensive player, was the best scorer since Wilt, won 6 championships despite arriving to a shit team, despite never being on a team with a post player who could carry any part of the burden defensively.  Jordan was not flawless like people will have you believe, but he was great at both ends, played his best when it mattered most, and is the man Kobe has clearly modeled his game after. Not sure why you don't think he's the best man- forget the media and judge for yourself.

[Sccit]

NIK: forget media. Is MJ not the most accomplished player of all time, when you combine individual and team accomplishments? Only Jabbar is messing with him.  The media has nothing to do with how good Jordan was, only how good people perceive him to be. fact of the matter
Is Jordan hit game winners and clutch shots on a level no one had seen before, shot at an extremely high percentage for a perimeter player, was a great defensive player, was the best scorer since Wilt, won 6 championships despite arriving to a shit team, despite never being on a team with a post player who could carry any part of the burden defensively.  Jordan was not flawless like people will have you believe, but he was great at both ends, played his best when it mattered most, and is the man Kobe has clearly modeled his game after. Not sure why you don't think he's the best man- forget the media and judge for yourself.

like i said, in terms of career accomplishments, kobe will never match jordan...but if accomplishments was what we went by, Bill Russell is GOAT. Jordan and Kobe were drafted into two completely different situations...Jordan came out of college and was handed the keys to a struggling franchise, where he could put up unlimited stats from day 1. He kept losing until he had the perfect team built around him. Kobe came out of high school to the greatest NBA franchise of all time, and wasnt expected to do much. He had to work his way up from coming off the bench, to taking over the franchise, and had to GRAB the keys and run with 'em...still, a lot of his prime years were wasted on sub-par teams, while Jordan's prime years were ALL on great teams. Kobe has shit on Jordan, as well. U wanna talk about who the better scorer is? ask Phil Jackson....nobody, not even Jordan, could score like Kobe could in his prime. Kobe has also had his share of game winners.. in fact, there was one season in which he had 8 game winners. Jordan never came close to that in 1 season. and you wanna say Kobe modeled his game after Jordan?...you're right, he took aspects of Jordan's game and built on em, just like Jordan did with Dr. J...but the bottom line is,  Kobe is already regarded as one of the GOATs...when his career and all said and done, i think a lot of people will fall back and realize what the league had in its hands and took for granted. Kobe has never gotten the respect, the push from the league, the media love, the marketing, etc. that the Jordan brand has received...that plays a huge part in why there's a perception that there's a huge gap between Jordan and any other player.

[teecee]

NIk, you skew things often, and this is no different.  Kobe has 5 titles...partly due to the fact he didn't start with a shit team, but on one with the best player in the league.  There was very little pressure on him.

And clearly MJ was the better scorer, because he did it in a much more efficient manner.  Kobe obviously has the 81 point game, but all of his 50 point games are nowhere near as impressive as Jordan's.  If Kobe was the better scorer, wouldn't his best scoring seasons be better than Jordans??

Of course Kobe is one of the best ever, I'm impressed with how he played in playoffs.  Definitely an amazing player

BUt Jordan was just some next shit, championship wise, and individual wise.  Russel has him in titles, but RUssel wasn't at all dominate statistically...and how many teams were in the league then?

[Sccit]

NIk, you skew things often, and this is no different.  Kobe has 5 titles...partly due to the fact he didn't start with a shit team, but on one with the best player in the league.  There was very little pressure on him.

And clearly MJ was the better scorer, because he did it in a much more efficient manner.  Kobe obviously has the 81 point game, but all of his 50 point games are nowhere near as impressive as Jordan's.  If Kobe was the better scorer, wouldn't his best scoring seasons be better than Jordans??

Of course Kobe is one of the best ever, I'm impressed with how he played in playoffs.  Definitely an amazing player

BUt Jordan was just some next shit, championship wise, and individual wise.  Russel has him in titles, but RUssel wasn't at all dominate statistically...and how many teams were in the league then?

fact of the matter is, if Kobe was drafted to that Bulls team, he coulda averaged 40 ppg for all we know...when kobe was in his physical prime, he was playing alongside smush parker, kwame brown, and luke walton in the starting line-up...imagine what he could have done with a solid team built around him from age 25 on...as for being a more efficient scorer, u keep goin back to that. shaq was a much more efficient scorer than jordan, would u say he's better? no..shaq simply took easier shots. same goes for jordan..he took easier shots than kobe. was it cause he was a better scorer? no. we cant really say why, but we have to take into account that kobe has played in much different circumstances than jordan. jordan never even reached 70, let alone 80 points... and he has attempted more field goals in a single game than kobe has. in his physical prime, kobe outscored the mavs with 64 points in 3 quarters (then sat the 4th)..there are things kobe has done that jordan hasn't. but as i've always said, we will have 2 come back 2 this when kobe's career is over.

[Chamillitary Click]

This kid doesn't even realize what he's saying, that's how hard he's sucking Kobe's dick in these essays.

1. "MJ was handed the keys. Kobe had to work off the bench & wasn't expected to be much."

That just goes to show how much better MJ was from the start. Kobe found his role playing with the last big man to ever average 30 a season. Easily the most dominant big man of all-time, not counting Wilt playing with 6'7'' white dudes. MJ had nothing & turned it into six rings. There is no denying Shaq played a far bigger role. Shaq proved it going to Miami that Kobe needed Shaq more than Shaq needed Kobe. That's three rings right there. Then he dominated the with the Spurs banged up & literally nobody else coming close after stealing, at the time, one of the league's best big man. You yourself said they had the best roster in basketball. Who are you kidding?

2. "Kobe coulda averaged 40 on the Bulls, we don't know."

Homeboy's argument is REALLY, "if he was on the Bulls". SON SAID "IF". How about we just look at what was & not what your homosexual, biased imagination is thinking?

You're disgusting.

[Sccit]

You're disgusting.

bro, come out the fuckin closet already

[Chamillitary Click]

DODGE CITY LMAO.

This thread alone has already pushed you well into the lead as the biggest faggot in the family.

& you got this kid in the house..

[Sccit]

^lol..funny thing is, my brother would beat ur ass. aint no dodge city...teecee and mietek brought up valid points without actin like lil faggots, and they got a full response to everything they said. it's what i do best. fact of the matter is, i don't take u seriously, and i doubt if anyone on this website (outside of hack) ever did.

[Chamillitary Click]

You just said about three invalid things in two sentences, that's wild lmao.

& yeah, he probably would. That slap-style offense is overwhelming at times.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

jordan never even reached 70, let alone 80 points... and he has attempted more field goals in a single game than kobe has.

It's not like his career-high 69 points was so far behind 70.  Not that it takes away from his legacy.