Jordan never took tough shots the way Kobe does...

[Sccit]

jordan never even reached 70, let alone 80 points... and he has attempted more field goals in a single game than kobe has.

It's not like his career-high 69 points was so far behind 70.  Not that it takes away from his legacy.

I feel ya... But it's still not 81. Point is, Kobe, in his physical prime, was the better overall scorer, hands down.

[PLANT]

I cant add anything to this thread other than NIK STAYS losing bigtime in the Kobe vs Jordan debate.  Hop off Bryants balls already.  Reading some of your posts in these type of threads are pure comedy.

[Sccit]

I cant add anything to this thread other than NIK STAYS losing bigtime in the Kobe vs Jordan debate.  Hop off Bryants balls already.  Reading some of your posts in these type of threads are pure comedy.

Right.. Cuz im the only person in the world who compares Kobe n Jordan. There's nothin outrageous bout what I said. U couldn't make any points, so u just came in here to add absolutely nothin to the discussion. Good job.

[Chamillitary Click]

Homeboy is in denial. Sad to watch.

[PLANT]

I cant add anything to this thread other than NIK STAYS losing bigtime in the Kobe vs Jordan debate.  Hop off Bryants balls already.  Reading some of your posts in these type of threads are pure comedy.

Right.. Cuz im the only person in the world who compares Kobe n Jordan. There's nothin outrageous bout what I said. U couldn't make any points, so u just came in here to add absolutely nothin to the discussion. Good job.

There is no discussion.  Jordan is better than Kobe, end of story.  Move on.

[Sccit]

I cant add anything to this thread other than NIK STAYS losing bigtime in the Kobe vs Jordan debate.  Hop off Bryants balls already.  Reading some of your posts in these type of threads are pure comedy.

Right.. Cuz im the only person in the world who compares Kobe n Jordan. There's nothin outrageous bout what I said. U couldn't make any points, so u just came in here to add absolutely nothin to the discussion. Good job.

There is no discussion.  Jordan is better than Kobe, end of story.  Move on.

Ok... In other news, Kareem is greater than Jordan. It's all subjective, buddy. That's my number 1 point.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Ok... In other news, Kareem is greater than Jordan. It's all subjective, buddy. That's my number 1 point.

So if it's "all subjective," why do you always focus on Kobe being a "better overall scorer" and point out his 81-point game multiple times?

[Sccit]

Ok... In other news, Kareem is greater than Jordan. It's all subjective, buddy. That's my number 1 point.

So if it's "all subjective," why do you always focus on Kobe being a "better overall scorer" and point out his 81-point game multiple times?

Cuz that's what I believe

[teecee]

One or two games doesn't supersede entire seasons And NIK when I mentioned efficiency , it's fine to compare Kobe and MJ cuz they played same position and have similar games. Bringing shaq into it doesn't make a lt of sense does it?

[Sccit]

One or two games doesn't supersede entire seasons And NIK when I mentioned efficiency , it's fine to compare Kobe and MJ cuz they played same position and have similar games. Bringing shaq into it doesn't make a lt of sense does it?

actually, it does make sense... kobe's range>jordan's range>shaq's range. efficiency lowers with range, therefore kobe's efficiency is naturally lower. if kobe had a career average of 1.7 threes per game ala jordan, he could be just as efficient, if not more. but kobe has a career average of 4 threes attempted per game (more than double), which will naturally lower efficiency. lets not forget, jordan also played in seasons where the three point line was closer...god knows how many points kobe woulda had in some of those games if the three point line was closer.

[Mietek23]

Kobe had a great stroke from three...forget about the percentages, Kobe shoots a lot of percentage-busters, bail out threes with the shot-clock winding down, fadeaway threes over 2 defenders. he's not just a "catch-and-shoot wide-open threes" typa shooter, who are typically much higher in terms of percentage. when kobe had it going, he was unstoppable from behind the arc. not quite reggie miller or glen rice, but they were shooting specialists. kobe's an overall player, and his stroke has always been lightyears ahead of Jordan's..especially from long range.

I don't argue, that he does not have a great range and he didn't made a lot of tough 3-pointers. HE DOES and HE DID. He's a good 3-point shooter and he can drop a 3 from anywhere on the floor, but saying he's a GREAT 3-PT SHOOTER is a bit too much in my opinion, just like saying he was "his stroke has always been lightyears ahead of Jordan's", which is even more ridicolous. Also don't forget that MJ came into league without a 3-point shot in his arsenal.

As a young player, Michael didn't had a chance to play a lot of b-ball WITH a 3-point line as NCAA adopted one in 1980 - a year prior to his rookie season in North Carolina. Kobe on the other hand came into the league with a good abillity of shooting 3's. And like Michael, he worked on his 3-point shot, but when you look how much MJ improved his 3-point range, going from 18% in his rookie year to 33% durning a whole career - we should sppreciated it even more.

bro...i dont get it? it's widely accepted that NBA wings are much more athletic nowadays, and that the shift of talent has gone from bigs to perimeter players from when jordan was playing to now. yes, reggie miller, ol' joe dumars, clyde drexler, mitch richmond, young penny hardaway, etc. were all good. but they weren't amongst the top players in the league in those days. barkley, malone, ewing, shaq, etc. were...nowadays league is being ran by durant's, lebrons, wades, etc....if u dont get what i'm saying, that's pretty awkward.

Being more athletic dosent' mean your a better player, nor does not equal they are more talented my friend. What do you mean, they weren't amongst the top players in the league? Reggie was a top 5 shooting guard in the 90's and he was a big NBA star, even tho he played his whole career in a small market of Indianapollis. Remember his Spike Lee commercials? He was just as popular as people hated him for his killer instinct and late game play-off performances. Not to mention he is a future Hall Of Famer. Mitch Richmond was prolly one of the most underrated players in NBA history, Drexler was a 2nd best SG of the league and Penny Hardaway was one of the best young players at that time. From 1994 to 1996, the NBA was pushing him hard with all the commercials etc. People was calling him a mix between Magic and MJ - he played great, he was one of the leaders of that young Magic team and started to grab some of the "Shaq-spotlight" to himself, just like Kobe did durning Lakers first 3-peat. He was very much a like to Kobe (similar talent and a similar situation) - if his knee didn't get fucked up, who knows how his career would look like... same goes for Grant Hill. They both would prolly end up in Hall Of Fame one day..

i was just pointing out that it's dumb of u to compare wizard jordan to current kobe..that is all

It's also dumb for you to downplay Jordan's run with the Wizards, even tho they didn't reach the Play-Off's. I don't compare them, but saying MJ was MEDICIORE playing for Washington is stupid. Let me remind you some things:

He was 38, long past his prime, and was still playing at an All-Star level. Durning the first half of the 01-02 season, Wizards were up 26-21. Jordan was averaging 24,6 pts, 6,1 rbs and 5,2 as playing about 35 minutes per game. He was a LEGITIMADE MVP candidate before the All-Star Game, breaking the NBA all-time record for an oldest player to ever score 50 or more points, plus he had some GREAT games going head to head with some of the best NBA players in their athletic prime. He dropped 35 on prime KG guarding him most of the time, 32 on Paul Pierce & Antoine Walker in their best shape and 41 on young Shawn Marion. Then, his knee went all out and forced him to miss the key period of the season, causing Wizards to bury their Play-Off chances. Still, he was able to provide some GREAT games, playing wirtually on one leg, schooling young Miami Heat with 37pts and young Bucks team with 34.

If that's MEDICIORE by your standards, then I'm speechless.

Not to mention he shot 48% in the 41 home games for the Wizards in the 02-03 season and averaged 22 pts/per game on a home floor, going for 45 against Mashburn, dropping 43 on Jefferson & prime Kenyon Martin and 41 versus young Pacers team. JORDAN was BALLING durning his Wizards run - if it wasen't for the injury, his numbers for those 2 years would be even better and people wouldn't call it a FAILURE because he wasen't dunking on people left and right like he used to when he was 26. Even with the Wizards, he was still able to lead them to a 37-45 records twice, which was a 18 win improvement compared to the year prior to 2001-2002 season which was (19-63 in 2001).

first of all, jordan did guard kobe for some of the game, i was there...but that wasnt my point. the showdown was billed as the final kobe vs. jordan match-up. it's not about who he scored all the points on, it's about the fact the he showed jordan who the torch now belongs to. thats all i was gettin at.

It's also not about what the media portray to sell tickets for the game - don't forget about that. No doubt Kobe was the NBA's best player at that time but that wasen't the case of this subject.

and in my eyes, there is no GOAT...there are many different GOAT's, and Kobe is one of them. but if one wants to argue Jordan as GOAT, someone else can make a case for Kobe (especially if he wins any more rings). there could be cases made for Wilt, Magic, Russell, Kareem, etc. as well. but the fact of the matter is, EVERY player makes mistakes...there has never been a flawless player in this league. but the jordan brand/basketball media damn sure do go out of their way to make it seem like MJ was the flawless prototype of what a basketball player should be, and lots of simple-minded mufuckaz and casual basketball fans eat it up. thats all i'm really gettin at here.

Well, in certain way HE WAS "the flawless prototype of what a basketball player should be". He played with heart and passion, he was the best player on both ends of the floor, made all of his teamates better, won numerous championships and other prestigious & international basketball awards and made NBA Basketball into a global thing. Despite the fact, he was the most recognizable sportsman in the world, he was still practicing harder than 99% of his peers. THIS IS WHAT MADE HIM A LEGEND, AN ICON AND A STANDARD WHICH BASKETBALL PLAYER SHOULD BE MEASURE.

And that's why your favorite player Kobe pattered his game and his work ethic after him

like i said, in terms of career accomplishments, kobe will never match jordan...but if accomplishments was what we went by, Bill Russell is GOAT. Jordan and Kobe were drafted into two completely different situations...Jordan came out of college and was handed the keys to a struggling franchise, where he could put up unlimited stats from day 1. He kept losing until he had the perfect team built around him. Kobe came out of high school to the greatest NBA franchise of all time, and wasnt expected to do much. He had to work his way up from coming off the bench, to taking over the franchise, and had to GRAB the keys and run with 'em...still, a lot of his prime years were wasted on sub-par teams, while Jordan's prime years were ALL on great teams. Kobe has shit on Jordan, as well. U wanna talk about who the better scorer is? ask Phil Jackson....nobody, not even Jordan, could score like Kobe could in his prime. Kobe has also had his share of game winners.. in fact, there was one season in which he had 8 game winners. Jordan never came close to that in 1 season. and you wanna say Kobe modeled his game after Jordan?...you're right, he took aspects of Jordan's game and built on em, just like Jordan did with Dr. J...but the bottom line is,  Kobe is already regarded as one of the GOATs...when his career and all said and done, i think a lot of people will fall back and realize what the league had in its hands and took for granted. Kobe has never gotten the respect, the push from the league, the media love, the marketing, etc. that the Jordan brand has received...that plays a huge part in why there's a perception that there's a huge gap between Jordan and any other player.

See, there you go again twisting facts and lying just to prove your point. Kobe wasen't expected to do much? LOL. As far as I remember - he was compared to Jordan from the get go. He was being named "The Next Jordan" durning his second season in the league! How higher can the expectations be for an 18-year old kid coming straight outta High School?  

Like I said in my previous posts, Kobe prime years were from 07 to 10. Durning those years, his team situation was similar to Bulls 90-93, when MJ was at his absolute best. They had all the pieces around them (Pippen, Grant, Odom, Gasol, Bynum) and started to win after a series of Play-Off dissapointments. Now if your judging the prime of a player by STATS, then your right - Kobe wasted his best season on a bad team. So did Jordan in 1987, playing with bums like Dave Corzine and Pete Myers.

Well, let's ask Phil Jackson who was better. Didn't he said last year that "Kobe has patterned himself after Michael, and there are a lot of identical things there, but it’s one thing to hope to be like him, it’s another thing to be like him…. I’m with [ESPN's] Bill Simmons on this," he says. "We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It’s just not fair. He was remarkable. Kobe’s in his own sphere.
He doesn’t shoot the same percentage [.455] as Michael [.497]. He has the same characteristics as Michael, but he’s not the same player. It takes nothing away from him — he’s a great player in his own right."

Phil also said: “I don’t think anybody will ever really touch what Michael has done for the game", while Tex Winter added "They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."

In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said. Except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post play - and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of the lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."

See, the difference is that MJ was bigger and stronger - that's why he was able to hold his position in the post-up and create better shot opportunities for himself. Kobe hasen't been able to do that as good as MJ.


I'm not taking nothing away from Kobe Bryant - he is a great player. Still the best in the NBA today and the second best wing player ever. But he is not at the top of the list.

fact of the matter is, if Kobe was drafted to that Bulls team, he coulda averaged 40 ppg for all we know...when kobe was in his physical prime, he was playing alongside smush parker, kwame brown, and luke walton in the starting line-up...imagine what he could have done with a solid team built around him from age 25 on...as for being a more efficient scorer, u keep goin back to that. shaq was a much more efficient scorer than jordan, would u say he's better? no..shaq simply took easier shots. same goes for jordan..he took easier shots than kobe. was it cause he was a better scorer? no. we cant really say why, but we have to take into account that kobe has played in much different circumstances than jordan. jordan never even reached 70, let alone 80 points... and he has attempted more field goals in a single game than kobe has. in his physical prime, kobe outscored the mavs with 64 points in 3 quarters (then sat the 4th)..there are things kobe has done that jordan hasn't. but as i've always said, we will have 2 come back 2 this when kobe's career is over.

Since where another speculation of yours has become a well know and widely accepted FACT?  

He would NOT score 40ppg - there's NO CHANCE. The NBA was much different back then, plus he was a young, 17-year old kid that time. Talented - no doubt, but unprepaired physically for a rough and tought NBA of the mid 80's. I'll say he would average around 20 points per game tho, which still would be a great result.

there are things kobe has done that jordan hasn't - that argument can go both ways as there is A LOT of things that MJ did on a basketball court, that Kobe wasen't been able do duplicate. Yes, he scored 81 points and had a great game. But the team he played against was not so good to say at least. MJ on the other hand had 69 against Cavaliers, but also grabbed 18 rebounds, made 6 assists and 4 steals. He had at least couple games where he could surpass his own scoring record and plenty of games, where he could score 50+ but the game at the time was already won by the Bulls and there was no need for MJ to be on the floor. The "Labrador Smith Game" is a perfect example - Michael was 36 in the first half, than scored a loose 11 point in the 3rd and was out of the game, despite the fact he could go for at least 60 that night. Also don't forget he missed an entire season because of leg injury in 86 and even more years thanks to retirement. If he would play in 94 and 95, Bulls would prolly win 8 Finals in a row, not to mention Michael would surpass Jabbar in total points... he could had have over 40000 pts walking away as a Wizard.

Kobe, in his physical prime, was the better overall scorer, hands down.

That's a FACT? a STATEMENT? Or it's simply what you believe in?

actually, it does make sense... kobe's range>jordan's range>shaq's range. efficiency lowers with range, therefore kobe's efficiency is naturally lower. if kobe had a career average of 1.7 threes per game ala jordan, he could be just as efficient, if not more. but kobe has a career average of 4 threes attempted per game (more than double), which will naturally lower efficiency. lets not forget, jordan also played in seasons where the three point line was closer...god knows how many points kobe woulda had in some of those games if the three point line was closer.

Well, let's take away Kobe 3-point attempts and see if he can really be as efficient as Michael, if not more. The answer is NO - Jordan still beats him in FG% (48,2% to 49,7%). Now, let's be fair and take Michael's 3's out of the picture and he has a 51% FG attempts for his whole career.

So you see, you can't blame everything on RANGE and the fact that Kobe is joking WAAAY too many 3's. It's about players ability to create better shot opportunities for himself and having a better shot selection on your jumpshot. Michael Jordan has the 1# spot in terms of shooting percentage in a 50+ point game from the year 1986 to this day. He also has 2 others in Top 10 (5# and 8#) and 3 more in Top 25. Kobe on the other has 3 of the worst shooting 50-point games in terms of effciency in NBA history and his most efficient game comes in at #12.

Since 1986 - Kobe has 7 of the 15 worst and 10 of the 25 worst % 50-point games, Jordan on the other hand has only one game in the bottom 25.

Kobe played in the 96-97 and 97-98 season, when the 3-point line was closer and he was 37,5 and 34,1% from beyond the arc. Yes, his numbers would go up and I think he would average 40% shooting 3's, just like Jordan did in 95-96 season (42,7%). The reason Mike was so good in 3's durning the time when the line was closer is because it was one of his fav spots for shooting a jumpshot (it was just inside the old 3-point line) so he was really deadly from that area. So yea, I think Kobe would make a similar result judging from what I saw  

[Chamillitary Click]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0ePQKD9iBfU" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0ePQKD9iBfU</a>

[Sccit]

Kobe had a great stroke from three...forget about the percentages, Kobe shoots a lot of percentage-busters, bail out threes with the shot-clock winding down, fadeaway threes over 2 defenders. he's not just a "catch-and-shoot wide-open threes" typa shooter, who are typically much higher in terms of percentage. when kobe had it going, he was unstoppable from behind the arc. not quite reggie miller or glen rice, but they were shooting specialists. kobe's an overall player, and his stroke has always been lightyears ahead of Jordan's..especially from long range.

I don't argue, that he does not have a great range and he didn't made a lot of tough 3-pointers. HE DOES and HE DID. He's a good 3-point shooter and he can drop a 3 from anywhere on the floor, but saying he's a GREAT 3-PT SHOOTER is a bit too much in my opinion, just like saying he was "his stroke has always been lightyears ahead of Jordan's", which is even more ridicolous. Also don't forget that MJ came into league without a 3-point shot in his arsenal.

As a young player, Michael didn't had a chance to play a lot of b-ball WITH a 3-point line as NCAA adopted one in 1980 - a year prior to his rookie season in North Carolina. Kobe on the other hand came into the league with a good abillity of shooting 3's. And like Michael, he worked on his 3-point shot, but when you look how much MJ improved his 3-point range, going from 18% in his rookie year to 33% durning a whole career - we should sppreciated it even more.

i dont know what ur talkn about...jordan was mostly able to shoot wide-open, catch and shoot three-pointers. kobe is able to make fadeaway threes over 2 defenders. theyre not in the same league as far as long-distance shot, i dont know why you'd even argue this?

bro...i dont get it? it's widely accepted that NBA wings are much more athletic nowadays, and that the shift of talent has gone from bigs to perimeter players from when jordan was playing to now. yes, reggie miller, ol' joe dumars, clyde drexler, mitch richmond, young penny hardaway, etc. were all good. but they weren't amongst the top players in the league in those days. barkley, malone, ewing, shaq, etc. were...nowadays league is being ran by durant's, lebrons, wades, etc....if u dont get what i'm saying, that's pretty awkward.

Being more athletic dosent' mean your a better player, nor does not equal they are more talented my friend. What do you mean, they weren't amongst the top players in the league? Reggie was a top 5 shooting guard in the 90's and he was a big NBA star, even tho he played his whole career in a small market of Indianapollis. Remember his Spike Lee commercials? He was just as popular as people hated him for his killer instinct and late game play-off performances. Not to mention he is a future Hall Of Famer. Mitch Richmond was prolly one of the most underrated players in NBA history, Drexler was a 2nd best SG of the league and Penny Hardaway was one of the best young players at that time. From 1994 to 1996, the NBA was pushing him hard with all the commercials etc. People was calling him a mix between Magic and MJ - he played great, he was one of the leaders of that young Magic team and started to grab some of the "Shaq-spotlight" to himself, just like Kobe did durning Lakers first 3-peat. He was very much a like to Kobe (similar talent and a similar situation) - if his knee didn't get fucked up, who knows how his career would look like... same goes for Grant Hill. They both would prolly end up in Hall Of Fame one day..

lmao...u still dont get what im sayin? come on, buddy, this is becoming chamesque. THE LEAGUE WAS AN INSIDE-OUT LEAGUE BACK IN JORDANS DAY. IT WAS A BIG DOMINANT LEAGUE, WHEREAS TODAY, THE LEAGUE IS PERIMETER-DOMINANT. SMFH

i was just pointing out that it's dumb of u to compare wizard jordan to current kobe..that is all

It's also dumb for you to downplay Jordan's run with the Wizards, even tho they didn't reach the Play-Off's. I don't compare them, but saying MJ was MEDICIORE playing for Washington is stupid. Let me remind you some things:

He was 38, long past his prime, and was still playing at an All-Star level. Durning the first half of the 01-02 season, Wizards were up 26-21. Jordan was averaging 24,6 pts, 6,1 rbs and 5,2 as playing about 35 minutes per game. He was a LEGITIMADE MVP candidate before the All-Star Game, breaking the NBA all-time record for an oldest player to ever score 50 or more points, plus he had some GREAT games going head to head with some of the best NBA players in their athletic prime. He dropped 35 on prime KG guarding him most of the time, 32 on Paul Pierce & Antoine Walker in their best shape and 41 on young Shawn Marion. Then, his knee went all out and forced him to miss the key period of the season, causing Wizards to bury their Play-Off chances. Still, he was able to provide some GREAT games, playing wirtually on one leg, schooling young Miami Heat with 37pts and young Bucks team with 34.

If that's MEDICIORE by your standards, then I'm speechless.

Not to mention he shot 48% in the 41 home games for the Wizards in the 02-03 season and averaged 22 pts/per game on a home floor, going for 45 against Mashburn, dropping 43 on Jefferson & prime Kenyon Martin and 41 versus young Pacers team. JORDAN was BALLING durning his Wizards run - if it wasen't for the injury, his numbers for those 2 years would be even better and people wouldn't call it a FAILURE because he wasen't dunking on people left and right like he used to when he was 26. Even with the Wizards, he was still able to lead them to a 37-45 records twice, which was a 18 win improvement compared to the year prior to 2001-2002 season which was (19-63 in 2001).

the point i'm making is that wizard jordan is not comparable to kobe...by any stretch. thats all i'm really gettin at. to me, those wizard seasons by jordan weren't bad, but they definitely weren't good. if he was your every day player, yea, it would be good. but for michael jordan, those seasons did nothing but taint his legacy.

and in my eyes, there is no GOAT...there are many different GOAT's, and Kobe is one of them. but if one wants to argue Jordan as GOAT, someone else can make a case for Kobe (especially if he wins any more rings). there could be cases made for Wilt, Magic, Russell, Kareem, etc. as well. but the fact of the matter is, EVERY player makes mistakes...there has never been a flawless player in this league. but the jordan brand/basketball media damn sure do go out of their way to make it seem like MJ was the flawless prototype of what a basketball player should be, and lots of simple-minded mufuckaz and casual basketball fans eat it up. thats all i'm really gettin at here.

Well, in certain way HE WAS "the flawless prototype of what a basketball player should be". He played with heart and passion, he was the best player on both ends of the floor, made all of his teamates better, won numerous championships and other prestigious & international basketball awards and made NBA Basketball into a global thing. Despite the fact, he was the most recognizable sportsman in the world, he was still practicing harder than 99% of his peers. THIS IS WHAT MADE HIM A LEGEND, AN ICON AND A STANDARD WHICH BASKETBALL PLAYER SHOULD BE MEASURE.

And that's why your favorite player Kobe pattered his game and his work ethic after him

yup...he was on top of shit, no doubt. but the media definitely exaggerated and helped make him into a supernatural amongst naturals, when truth be told, there have been many greats on his level in basketball throughout the sports history

like i said, in terms of career accomplishments, kobe will never match jordan...but if accomplishments was what we went by, Bill Russell is GOAT. Jordan and Kobe were drafted into two completely different situations...Jordan came out of college and was handed the keys to a struggling franchise, where he could put up unlimited stats from day 1. He kept losing until he had the perfect team built around him. Kobe came out of high school to the greatest NBA franchise of all time, and wasnt expected to do much. He had to work his way up from coming off the bench, to taking over the franchise, and had to GRAB the keys and run with 'em...still, a lot of his prime years were wasted on sub-par teams, while Jordan's prime years were ALL on great teams. Kobe has shit on Jordan, as well. U wanna talk about who the better scorer is? ask Phil Jackson....nobody, not even Jordan, could score like Kobe could in his prime. Kobe has also had his share of game winners.. in fact, there was one season in which he had 8 game winners. Jordan never came close to that in 1 season. and you wanna say Kobe modeled his game after Jordan?...you're right, he took aspects of Jordan's game and built on em, just like Jordan did with Dr. J...but the bottom line is,  Kobe is already regarded as one of the GOATs...when his career and all said and done, i think a lot of people will fall back and realize what the league had in its hands and took for granted. Kobe has never gotten the respect, the push from the league, the media love, the marketing, etc. that the Jordan brand has received...that plays a huge part in why there's a perception that there's a huge gap between Jordan and any other player.

See, there you go again twisting facts and lying just to prove your point. Kobe wasen't expected to do much? LOL. As far as I remember - he was compared to Jordan from the get go. He was being named "The Next Jordan" durning his second season in the league! How higher can the expectations be for an 18-year old kid coming straight outta High School? 

Like I said in my previous posts, Kobe prime years were from 07 to 10. Durning those years, his team situation was similar to Bulls 90-93, when MJ was at his absolute best. They had all the pieces around them (Pippen, Grant, Odom, Gasol, Bynum) and started to win after a series of Play-Off dissapointments. Now if your judging the prime of a player, then your right - Kobe wasted his best season on a bad team. So did Jordan in 1987, playing with bums like Dave Corzine and Pete Myers.

Well, let's ask Phil Jackson who was better. Didn't he said last year that "Kobe has patterned himself after Michael, and there are a lot of identical things there, but it’s one thing to hope to be like him, it’s another thing to be like him…. I’m with [ESPN's] Bill Simmons on this," he says. "We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It’s just not fair. He was remarkable. Kobe’s in his own sphere.
He doesn’t shoot the same percentage [.455] as Michael [.497]. He has the same characteristics as Michael, but he’s not the same player. It takes nothing away from him — he’s a great player in his own right."

Phil also said: “I don’t think anybody will ever really touch what Michael has done for the game", while Tex Winter added "They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."

In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said. Except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post play - and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of the lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."

See, the difference is that MJ was bigger and stronger - that's why he was able to hold his position in the post-up and create better shot opportunities for himself. Kobe hasen't been able to do that as good as MJ.


I'm not taking nothing away from Kobe Bryant - he is a great player. Still the best in the NBA today and the second best wing player ever. But he is not at the top of the list.

Phil Jackson also said that Kobe was more talented then Jordan and that Jordan's biggest advantage was that he had bigger hands, while Kobe's the better scorer, ball-handler, and shooter. He basically has sided with both Jordan and Kobe in the argument, on different occasions. and no, Kobe wasn't expected to be one of the greats when he was drafted 13th overall by the Hornets, and traded for Vlade Divac...he was a project, and a back-up. He built his way up as opposed to being handed an entire franchise. thats why i say its two different scenarios...jordan had time to build his individual stats and accolades when he first came in the league, while Kobe was just tryna build his way up to starting status, and then, eventually, being considered the franchise player. two completely different positions coming into the NBA.

fact of the matter is, if Kobe was drafted to that Bulls team, he coulda averaged 40 ppg for all we know...when kobe was in his physical prime, he was playing alongside smush parker, kwame brown, and luke walton in the starting line-up...imagine what he could have done with a solid team built around him from age 25 on...as for being a more efficient scorer, u keep goin back to that. shaq was a much more efficient scorer than jordan, would u say he's better? no..shaq simply took easier shots. same goes for jordan..he took easier shots than kobe. was it cause he was a better scorer? no. we cant really say why, but we have to take into account that kobe has played in much different circumstances than jordan. jordan never even reached 70, let alone 80 points... and he has attempted more field goals in a single game than kobe has. in his physical prime, kobe outscored the mavs with 64 points in 3 quarters (then sat the 4th)..there are things kobe has done that jordan hasn't. but as i've always said, we will have 2 come back 2 this when kobe's career is over.

Since where another speculation of yours has become a well know and widely accepted FACT? 

He would NOT score 40ppg - there's NO CHANCE. The NBA was much different back then, plus he was a young, 17-year old kid that time. Talented - no doubt, but unprepaired physically for a rough and tought NBA of the mid 80's. I'll say he would average around 20 points per game tho, which still would be a great result.

there are things kobe has done that jordan hasn't - that argument can go both ways as there is A LOT of things that MJ did on a basketball court, that Kobe wasen't been able do duplicate. Yes, he scored 81 points and had a great game. But the team he played against was not so good to say at least. MJ on the other hand had 69 against Cavaliers, but also grabbed 18 rebounds, made 6 assists and 4 steals. He had at least couple games where he could surpass his own scoring record and plenty of games, where he could score 50+ but the game at the time was already won by the Bulls and there was no need for MJ to be on the floor. The "Labrador Smith Game" is a perfect example - Michael was 36 in the first half, than scored a loose 11 point in the 3rd and was out of the game, despite the fact he could go for at least 60 that night. Also don't forget he missed an entire season because of leg injury in 86 and even more years thanks to retirement. If he would play in 94 and 95, Bulls would prolly win 8 Finals in a row, not to mention Michael would surpass Jabbar in total points... he could had have over 40000 pts walking away as a Wizard.

and wasnt the 69 point jordan game in overtime? i cant really remember for sure, but kobe scored 81 in regulation...imagine how much that coulda been had the game gone into overtime.

Kobe, in his physical prime, was the better overall scorer, hands down.

That's a FACT? a STATEMENT? Or it's simply what you believe in?

thats my valid opinion

actually, it does make sense... kobe's range>jordan's range>shaq's range. efficiency lowers with range, therefore kobe's efficiency is naturally lower. if kobe had a career average of 1.7 threes per game ala jordan, he could be just as efficient, if not more. but kobe has a career average of 4 threes attempted per game (more than double), which will naturally lower efficiency. lets not forget, jordan also played in seasons where the three point line was closer...god knows how many points kobe woulda had in some of those games if the three point line was closer.

Well, let's take away Kobe 3-point attempts and see if he can really be as efficient as Michael, if not more. The answer is NO - Jordan still beats him in FG% (48,2% to 49,7%). Now, let's be fair and take Michael's 3's out of the picture and he has a 51% FG attempts for his whole career.

So you see, you can't blame everything on RANGE and the fact that Kobe is joking WAAAY too many 3's. It's about players ability to create better shot opportunities for himself and having a better shot selection on your jumpshot. Michael Jordan has the 1# spot in terms of shooting percentage in a 50+ point game from the year 1986 to this day. He also has 2 others in Top 10 (5# and 8#) and 3 more in Top 25. Kobe on the other has 3 of the worst shooting 50-point games in terms of effciency in NBA history and his most efficient game comes in at #12.

Since 1986 - Kobe has 7 of the 15 worst and 10 of the 25 worst % 50-point games, Jordan on the other hand has only one game in the bottom 25.

Kobe played in the 96-97 and 97-98 season, when the 3-point line was closer and he was 37,5 and 34,1% from beyond the arc. Yes, his numbers would go up and I think he would average 40% shooting 3's, just like Jordan did in 95-96 season (42,7%). The reason Mike was so good in 3's durning the time when the line was closer is because it was one of his fav spots for shooting a jumpshot (it was just inside the old 3-point line) so he was really deadly from that area. So yea, I think Kobe would make a similar result judging from what I saw 

actually, kobe never played when the three point line was closer..so i dunno where u get ur distorted information from, but a lot of kobe's attempts are right inside the three point line. in fact, his signature j is from right around 20-22 feet out. i can all but guarantee that kobe would have some even greater scoring performances and broken even more of jordan's records had he played with a closer three point line.

[7even]

Kobe wasn't expected to be one of the greats when he was drafted 13th overall by the Hornets, and traded for Vlade Divac...he was a project, and a back-up. He built his way up as opposed to being handed an entire franchise. thats why i say its two different scenarios...jordan had time to build his individual stats and accolades when he first came in the league, while Kobe was just tryna build his way up to starting status, and then, eventually, being considered the franchise player. two completely different positions coming into the NBA.

cmon nigga, youre acting as if kobe was just your regular nigga getting traded for bum ass divac. back in the day it wasnt normal to come straight out of highschool as some uneducated ass nigga, plus kobe was a diva and bitch even back then and told other teams he will only play for the lakers like the pretentious bitch he was and still is. nigga was  voted to be an all-star when he was basically still on the bench. sick shit.

and wasnt the 69 point jordan game in overtime? i cant really remember for sure, but kobe scored 81 in regulation...imagine how much that coulda been had the game gone into overtime.

don't get all fake-excited lmfao. you know god damn well that the main reason why kobe scored so much was that raptors sucked major ass and he just wanted to score for the sake of scoring, not for the sake of winning the game. if the opposing team had been good enough to force OT, no way he would have scored that easily. so basically, OT is more impressive, as it implies that the other team was worth a shit.


if the reduce scoring to plain shooting ability and ignore vital parts such as shot selection and bullying oneself into position, then yes, kobe was better. but that's not what scoring really is. if scoring was just about having stroke and range along with the ability to slash and hit FTs, durant could eclipse kobe as "the greatest scorer of all-time" handily. and you and i know you don't reckon that's gonna happen now do you..?

[Sccit]

Kobe wasn't expected to be one of the greats when he was drafted 13th overall by the Hornets, and traded for Vlade Divac...he was a project, and a back-up. He built his way up as opposed to being handed an entire franchise. thats why i say its two different scenarios...jordan had time to build his individual stats and accolades when he first came in the league, while Kobe was just tryna build his way up to starting status, and then, eventually, being considered the franchise player. two completely different positions coming into the NBA.

cmon nigga, youre acting as if kobe was just your regular nigga getting traded for bum ass divac. back in the day it wasnt normal to come straight out of highschool as some uneducated ass nigga, plus kobe was a diva and bitch even back then and told other teams he will only play for the lakers like the pretentious bitch he was and still is. nigga was  voted to be an all-star when he was basically still on the bench. sick shit.

and wasnt the 69 point jordan game in overtime? i cant really remember for sure, but kobe scored 81 in regulation...imagine how much that coulda been had the game gone into overtime.

don't get all fake-excited lmfao. you know god damn well that the main reason why kobe scored so much was that raptors sucked major ass and he just wanted to score for the sake of scoring, not for the sake of winning the game. if the opposing team had been good enough to force OT, no way he would have scored that easily. so basically, OT is more impressive, as it implies that the other team was worth a shit.


if the reduce scoring to plain shooting ability and ignore vital parts such as shot selection and bullying oneself into position, then yes, kobe was better. but that's not what scoring really is. if scoring was just about having stroke and range along with the ability to slash and hit FTs, durant could eclipse kobe as "the greatest scorer of all-time" handily. and you and i know you don't reckon that's gonna happen now do you..?

lmao...shows how much u know. the raptors were beating the lakers well into the 3rd quarter in that game, and the game went down to the wire. if it didn't, phil woulda sat kobe, like he did in the 4th quarter of the game where he score 64 points in 3 quarters vs the mavs.