The Official MLB Thread

[MistaNova]

I know, that's why I wrote real players in quotation marks and also wrote please. I've got my fingers crossed though, hell I'll even drive Jigga and Cano to Seattle myself if I have to.

[Remedy360]

I know, that's why I wrote real players in quotation marks and also wrote please. I've got my fingers crossed though, hell I'll even drive Jigga and Cano to Seattle myself if I have to.

You just don't want to deal with the contract?

[J. B A N A N A S]

Cano to Seattle won't happen. That'd be a step backwards for him.

[MistaNova]

TBH it's not so much the contract since the Yankees are bound to overpay for someone else anyway and probably will continue to do so for all eternity, and the Yankees are pretty much the richest team in baseball.

However, my biggest concern with the Yankees is that they are a time-bomb. An implosion is just waiting to happen and probably will happen after Jeter retires (hell, it could happen before he retires). I want that implosion to happen soon so that the Yankees will be FORCED to rebuild from within and revive their farmsystem. They have some really nice building blocks in the really low minors (rookie/low a-level) with plenty of room to improve.
If Cano comes back then that gives the team, fans and media "hope" than they can build around him and force the Yankees to continue being competitive/repetitive and I do not want that. I don't wany any more McCanns, Teixieras, Rodriguezes, Wellses or Ichiros. Just let the Yankees dynasty die, go back to being the terrible team that they were in the 80's, revive the farmsystem and take the 2020's and 2030's by storm with the next Yankees dynasty that was built from within.

Basically I want the Yankees to lose now so they can win later. If Cano comes back the Yankees lose now and will also continue to lose later.

Edit: While I was writing this post the Yankees gave me the middle finger and signed Ellsbury.

[MistaNova]

Rumors are starting come out that the M's are interested in David Price. Names like Taijuan Walker and Nick Franklin have popped up as part of the possible package going back to Tampa.

Your thoughts on this matter remedy? Do you like the concept of Price (and possibly Cano) being on your M's in 2014 and beyond? Do you think keeping Walker around would be a better option? Do see this trade happening at all?

[Remedy360]

Rumors are starting come out that the M's are interested in David Price. Names like Taijuan Walker and Nick Franklin have popped up as part of the possible package going back to Tampa.

Your thoughts on this matter remedy? Do you like the concept of Price (and possibly Cano) being on your M's in 2014 and beyond? Do you think keeping Walker around would be a better option? Do see this trade happening at all?

I don't want to give up Taijuan Walker unless it's for offense. He's as bright of a pitching prospect as there is out there, and he didn't even start pitching until he was an upper-classman in high school and is still only 21. Just an absolute freak of an athlete who is still learning the game. By all accounts he's gonna be a top of the rotation guy sooner rather than later, so I don't really think shipping him out for another pitcher is worth it. I think we have enough good young arms that were able to get their feet wet last year that we'll be fine as far as pitching goes. If there's anything we're desperate for it's hitting, so I'd likely be okay with dealing him for a big-time instant bat. I just don't see the point of using someone that could bring in as much as Walker could on a position we're already stacked at. Of course I'd love to see Price here (with Felix and Iwakuma next season  ) but I don't think he's coming unless it's a Walker package.  As far as Cano goes, I'd be ecstatic to see him here. Yeah we'd have to overpay, and yeah he probably wouldn't be great towards the end of the contract, the M's have just been in the gutter for so long that it would be great to see a big splash like that. As sad as it is, haven't had a year-in year-out threat in the middle of our lineup since A-Rod left. Our season tickets have declined something crazy like 60% in the last decade, and especially now with how fucking awesome the Seahawks are, the M's are just a punchline to the average Seattle fan. This would at least give people something to get excited about, and give us a proven guy to supplement all the young players, while also creating the potential for other big free-agents in the future. I have a feeling that the M's are being used as leverage in this one, but I'd love to see it happen even if the contract looks bad on paper. For the record, I would have been cool with throwing the type of money you guys did towards Ellesburry as well.

On a different note, I'd love to hear a conversation between Jack-Z and Jay-Z.

[MistaNova]

^Okay so you wouldn't want to give up Walker for Price. Not sure if the M's could pull off a trade if Walker's not going to Tampa (I know Hultzen and Paxton are good but they aren't Walker) though.

BTW, I just saw this on my twitter feed,

Source with knowledge of the Mariners planning said they are going to offer Cano 9 years/$225 million

In other words shit just got real.
If the M's can get Cano and resign Morales, they could be a wild-card contender.

If the Yankees can't resign Cano, they're fucked.

[MistaNova]

In the Cano thread I briefly mentioned how Seattle suddenly seemed to be able to offer a huge 10 year $250 million contract to somebody and not when their past superstars were on their way out of the door. Well I've been thinking a lot deeper about it and I thought I'd share my 2 cents.

*Ken Griffey Jr.
I actually poked fun on another forum about why Seattle never offered Griffey this kind of contract and I was told that it was because Griffey had requested to be traded to his relatives in Cincinnati (for the record I was not a baseball fan in the 90's). And I actually did a little research and found that it was allegedly triggered by Payne Stewart's death. However the pessimist in me has to wonder whether or not he left because he knew that Seattle was not going to fork over the money he thought he deserved, would he have stayed if he knew that Seattle was willing (and more importantly able) to give him a contract that would be the biggest ever in MLB history? I emphasis the able part because I believe that the TV deal that Seattle signed relatively recently is a significant source of where they're getting the money to pay for Hernandez and Cano's contracts. That wasn't available when Griffey was still in Seattle but the M's were owned by Nintendo, one of the biggest brands in the 80's and 90's, couldn't they have resigned Griffey?

*Alex Rodriguez
Admittedly the Griffey arguement has flaws since I know little to nothing about Griffey and the Mariners's financial status in the 90's.
However with A-Rod I know for a fact that if the M's had offered this deal then Rodriguez would've at least considered staying in Seattle. Imagine how different our perception of A-Rod would be today if he had stayed in Seattle. Most of the mainstream hate towards him started when he left Seattle for big money in Texas, it got worse when he was traded to New York and the idiotic Yankee fans got their panties in a bunch when they started worrying about how Jesus Christ might have to move to a different position or team and the biggest outcry came when A-Rod became known as A-Roid after being tied to PEDs.

Plus even if don't you consider all that off the field crap you still have to think, in what drug-induced land is giving a 31 year old Robinson Cano $240 million until he's in his 40's more worth it than paying a then-26 year old Alex Rodriguez the same amount for the next decade (which included the prime years of his career)?

And though I'd hate to bring off the field issues in again, imagine how little impact the A-Rod PED scandal(s) would've had on the sports world if he was still in Seattle. After all the only reason the A-Rod saga is as big as it is today is because he's playing for the Yankees.
Basically where I'm going with this is that if A-Rod had stayed in Seattle, his career wouldn't be the sad punchline it is today. And that the Mariners are partly to blame. And they still have the audacity to act like A-Rod was never a part of their franchise.

[Remedy360]

In the Cano thread I briefly mentioned how Seattle suddenly seemed to be able to offer a huge 10 year $250 million contract to somebody and not when their past superstars were on their way out of the door. Well I've been thinking a lot deeper about it and I thought I'd share my 2 cents.

*Ken Griffey Jr.
I actually poked fun on another forum about why Seattle never offered Griffey this kind of contract and I was told that it was because Griffey had requested to be traded to his relatives in Cincinnati (for the record I was not a baseball fan in the 90's). And I actually did a little research and found that it was allegedly triggered by Payne Stewart's death. However the pessimist in me has to wonder whether or not he left because he knew that Seattle was not going to fork over the money he thought he deserved, would he have stayed if he knew that Seattle was willing (and more importantly able) to give him a contract that would be the biggest ever in MLB history? I emphasis the able part because I believe that the TV deal that Seattle signed relatively recently is a significant source of where they're getting the money to pay for Hernandez and Cano's contracts. That wasn't available when Griffey was still in Seattle but the M's were owned by Nintendo, one of the biggest brands in the 80's and 90's, couldn't they have resigned Griffey?

Yeah, we wanted him here for the long-haul but he wanted out to be closer to home, which was why he used the no-trade clause he had in his current extension and only wanted to go to Cinci. As loved as Griffey is here he really fucked us in that regard only wanting to be in a certain place and preventing us from getting the best deal (we got a fucking Mike Cameron package for the best player in baseball). He took a pay-cut based on what he was making here (and could have made in the future), so the idea that money was why Griffey left is completely wrong.   In terms of ownership, we still have the same people up top even though the Ninendo guy died. As far as A-Rod goes, yeah that was over money. We did try to keep him but weren't offering as much as Texas so he took the money and left. I think the M's being cheap is a big misperception. Chuck and Howard up top have been known to be incompetent, but the organization has spent plenty of money in the past. In 2008 we were in the top 5-10 in terms of payroll, the money just went towards the wrong guys (Beltre, Sexson, Silva, Bedard, Washburn, etc) I'd say incompetence is an appropriate term to use with the M's brass, but not cheap. This isn't (and hasn't been since the 90's) a Kansas City type market that just refuses to spend.

[Remedy360]

Actually, calling Chuck and Howard incompetent is too friendly. The guys are complete boobs. They loved Griffey though and he always had a great relationship with them. He even defended them during his M's HOF speech several months ago. He's the only guy that could come out and defend those guys and not get booed.

[MistaNova]

I'm not saying that the M's didn't spend money. I'm saying that they didn't spend money on the guys that mattered.
Griffey and A-Rod were at one point the best players in baseball, and in A-Rod's case he was still only 26 and definitely had another decade of good baseball in him. I looked at what the M's initially offered A-Rod and it's no wonder he left, it barely even came close to what the M's gave King Felix.

I didn't even mention the other big guy, Randy Johnson. A guy who'd definitely have been worth keeping around. Although to be fair, giving a 10 year deal to a pitcher would've been just dumb.

Anyway, let me repeat myself by saying that I was not saying the M's were crying poor like the Royals, Rays and Marlins are, nor was I saying that they didn't have money to spend. However, I'm just wondering why they didn't offer that money to their bigger superstars who really mattered and how different things would be now if they had stuck around. Especially A-Rod.

[Remedy360]

I'm not saying that the M's didn't spend money. I'm saying that they didn't spend money on the guys that mattered.
Griffey and A-Rod were at one point the best players in baseball, and in A-Rod's case he was still only 26 and definitely had another decade of good baseball in him. I looked at what the M's initially offered A-Rod and it's no wonder he left, it barely even came close to what the M's gave King Felix.

I didn't even mention the other big guy, Randy Johnson. A guy who'd definitely have been worth keeping around. Although to be fair, giving a 10 year deal to a pitcher would've been just dumb.

Anyway, let me repeat myself by saying that I was not saying the M's were crying poor like the Royals, Rays and Marlins are, nor was I saying that they didn't have money to spend. However, I'm just wondering why they didn't offer that money to their bigger superstars who really mattered and how different things would be now if they had stuck around. Especially A-Rod.

Well, like I said, you can't put Griffey in there cause they woulda kept him had all that external stuff not happened. A-Rod, yeah, we shoulda offered more, but to say it's not near what Felix was offered is a bit ridiculous when you think about how much the game has changed economically between now and then. Randy Johnson also wanted out and didn't wanna re-sign. His beef may have actually been with Chuck and Howard but I'm not sure. I can't believe I'm actually defending these guys, my only real problem is your thoughts on Griffey. Anyone who was around here knows they wanted to keep him and that he wanted out for family reasons. Like I said, he took a pay cut to play in Cincinatti. Anyone who tells you it was about money in the least bit is misinformed.

[MistaNova]

Fine, so I was a little wrong about Griffey then. I'll admit it, especially since I didn't know who Griffey was until he was in a Reds uni.

However, my opinion on how the M's should've offered A-Rod more and how they are just as guilty for how A-Rod's reputation became so tarnished still stands. A-Rod's fall from grace started because of the Mariners' didn't even offer him a fair deal (and I know the economics of baseball have changed, but you'll never be able to convince me that the Nintendo-owned M's couldn't have given the Cano contract to A-Rod back in 2000). And while I can't say that he might've taken that contract over the one the Rangers gave him, who knows what would've happened if the M's did everything they could to keep A-Rod a Mariner for life. Then again the M's might've just dumped him onto the Yankees 3 or 4 years into that deal...

[Remedy360]

Fine, so I was a little wrong about Griffey then. I'll admit it, especially since I didn't know who Griffey was until he was in a Reds uni.

However, my opinion on how the M's should've offered A-Rod more and how they are just as guilty for how A-Rod's reputation became so tarnished still stands. A-Rod's fall from grace started because of the Mariners' didn't even offer him a fair deal (and I know the economics of baseball have changed, but you'll never be able to convince me that the Nintendo-owned M's couldn't have given the Cano contract to A-Rod back in 2000). And while I can't say that he might've taken that contract over the one the Rangers gave him, who knows what would've happened if the M's did everything they could to keep A-Rod a Mariner for life. Then again the M's might've just dumped him onto the Yankees 3 or 4 years into that deal...

LOL, so we're guilty for his reputation being tarnished? Somehow I'm not going to lose any sleep.

[MistaNova]

Not just the Mariners. A-Rod himself and Scott Boras are also to blame for A-Rod's downfall but the Mariners are definitely guilty to a certain extent. Yet they act like A-Rod was never a part of their organization. Faggots.