Lifestyle > Train of Thought
California - its own worst enemy. This time, in education.
Russell Bell:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lausd-suspensions-20130515,0,442761.story
The story is about the LA union school district no longer allowing schools to suspend students for "defiance".
The article cites minority students being disproportionately effected by suspensions as the main reason the school board voted this decision in.
So a larger number of minority students are acting up, getting suspended, and now all students will have free reign to openly defy teachers and not be removed from the educational setting in order to make things "fair".
Im sure these kids will learn their lessons through love (no pedo) and hugs from campus supervisors and Los Angeles' schools and especially minority students will be saved.
bouli77:
I don't know the specifics -I'll read the link later, but we have the same type of problems out here. Pupils feel free to act up when they see fit and kicking them out of classes is an option but it's not approved by the hierarchy, we are tied by statistics that we have to match at the end of the year, so even if a student doesn't give a fuck, he'll be likely to pass to the next grade 'cause statistics are more important than actual facts, and even if he doesn't pass, he can always appeal the decision and in that case it's almost impossible for him not to pass. the growing pressures are on the teachers, and sometimes more credibility are given to students who file complaints than to seasoned professionals. in my school some students got caught cheating with cell phones and others abused teachers and almost got a pass. one of the problems nowadays is that education is supposed to fit individual needs, and teachers have to adapt to the students' levels and needs, which isn't a bad idea in theory but it's really exacting and you go from one extreme to the other with your students.
M Dogg™:
It's actually not a bad idea. And if you ever go into a California classroom, it's not often the teacher who gets the brunt of the abuse, it's the student to student stuff, like fighting and students with drugs and stuff like that, that gets them suspended. I got suspended for fighting, and one time playing a prank on another student. But never did I do anything to a teacher.
In fact, in Los Angeles, they'd rather have a hard ass teacher who'll control the class than a good teacher who might lose control. My cousin who's a teacher said if you want to be a teacher in LA, you have to be ready to be a classroom manager, the district figures the learning will come.
But let's be real here as well. LA schools are not like the 90's. In fact LA schools have been doing better and better each year when it comes to discipline issues. We'd like to think of LA as some Dangerous Minds type environment, but the reality is that things have changed for the better in terms of classroom management there. Maybe not in education, but the classroom theory is working in terms of less classroom issues. Now test scores are still way down, but isn't that what we want? Dumb people who will listen.
Russell Bell:
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on May 16, 2013, 09:46:33 AM ---It's actually not a bad idea. And if you ever go into a California classroom, it's not often the teacher who gets the brunt of the abuse, it's the student to student stuff, like fighting and students with drugs and stuff like that, that gets them suspended. I got suspended for fighting, and one time playing a prank on another student. But never did I do anything to a teacher.
In fact, in Los Angeles, they'd rather have a hard ass teacher who'll control the class than a good teacher who might lose control. My cousin who's a teacher said if you want to be a teacher in LA, you have to be ready to be a classroom manager, the district figures the learning will come.
But let's be real here as well. LA schools are not like the 90's. In fact LA schools have been doing better and better each year when it comes to discipline issues. We'd like to think of LA as some Dangerous Minds type environment, but the reality is that things have changed for the better in terms of classroom management there. Maybe not in education, but the classroom theory is working in terms of less classroom issues. Now test scores are still way down, but isn't that what we want? Dumb people who will listen.
--- End quote ---
So your argument is that teachers dont get the "brunt of the abuse"? Dont you get it mdogg, students abusing other students IS defiance of teachers, and sometimes best fits into this category. Taking this away does nothing but placate the masses who believe that failure of certain groups is due to racism. Another "PC" move by a school board who has deluded education by deluding the rules in the educational setting and giving kids more free reign to do as they please. Taking away reasons to kick kids out of class wont make them any better behaved, only better suited to maneuver the system, which is ok I guess, since many of these students will be manipulating the justice system in no time anyway.
If you really think that these students are being unnecessarily suspended then the problem is the administration who is signing off and most times administering the punishment. But we all know that usually isnt the case. Sure theres the exceptions, but to act like the school system is systematically suspending kids for no reason suggests a problem with the kinds of people working in the schools not the rules themselves (if this were true, and be honest, it aint).
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Russell Bell on May 17, 2013, 09:35:01 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on May 16, 2013, 09:46:33 AM ---It's actually not a bad idea. And if you ever go into a California classroom, it's not often the teacher who gets the brunt of the abuse, it's the student to student stuff, like fighting and students with drugs and stuff like that, that gets them suspended. I got suspended for fighting, and one time playing a prank on another student. But never did I do anything to a teacher.
In fact, in Los Angeles, they'd rather have a hard ass teacher who'll control the class than a good teacher who might lose control. My cousin who's a teacher said if you want to be a teacher in LA, you have to be ready to be a classroom manager, the district figures the learning will come.
But let's be real here as well. LA schools are not like the 90's. In fact LA schools have been doing better and better each year when it comes to discipline issues. We'd like to think of LA as some Dangerous Minds type environment, but the reality is that things have changed for the better in terms of classroom management there. Maybe not in education, but the classroom theory is working in terms of less classroom issues. Now test scores are still way down, but isn't that what we want? Dumb people who will listen.
--- End quote ---
So your argument is that teachers dont get the "brunt of the abuse"? Dont you get it mdogg, students abusing other students IS defiance of teachers, and sometimes best fits into this category. Taking this away does nothing but placate the masses who believe that failure of certain groups is due to racism. Another "PC" move by a school board who has deluded education by deluding the rules in the educational setting and giving kids more free reign to do as they please. Taking away reasons to kick kids out of class wont make them any better behaved, only better suited to maneuver the system, which is ok I guess, since many of these students will be manipulating the justice system in no time anyway.
If you really think that these students are being unnecessarily suspended then the problem is the administration who is signing off and most times administering the punishment. But we all know that usually isnt the case. Sure theres the exceptions, but to act like the school system is systematically suspending kids for no reason suggests a problem with the kinds of people working in the schools not the rules themselves (if this were true, and be honest, it aint).
--- End quote ---
See, when I was in school, we had on campus suspension. I am thinking that they'll do more of that. Let's put it this way, I know kids today who have little to no parent supervision and when they get suspended, it's like a day off. It does NOTHING. Hell, one of my favorite days was when I got suspended myself, I went to a friends house, then we went to go visit some girls. LA and other parts of California are not like your typical neighborhoods and these students and their parents are not like your typical parents and students. There has to be new ways to deal with these things. Plus if one or more groups are being singled out for suspension, then you need to look at what you are doing and why this is. It's not just enough to say, "well those Mexicans and Blacks are just bad kids." There is a LOT to look at.
And dude, I grew up in those areas, I worked in high schools for a few years before moving to higher education. Trust me, people think LA schools are on some type of Dangerous Minds crap. It isn't. These kids are not out there doing the same stupid shit we did in the 90's. But teachers, especially those in their 40's and 50's who taught in those times, are treating the students like they would have treated us. There is a lot of change that needs to happen. Lots and lots of studies have shown that though many teachers and administrators have good intentions, the system is inherently discriminatory to non-white students, even after all these years. I will not say I 100% agree with getting rid of suspension, but I do think it's counter productive to take a student off grounds unless that student is a true threat to others, i.e. bring a weapon to school or verbally threaten death to a student. For other reasons, drugs, common fighting, ditching, they can have on campus suspension where they don't have days off, instead they have to come to campus to another room and do school work in complete silence. Our school called it prison, and it was ran that way.
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