Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Market-driven culture has destroyed virtue
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Russell Bell on September 03, 2013, 07:16:53 AM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on September 03, 2013, 05:36:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: Russell Bell on September 03, 2013, 12:23:07 AM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on September 02, 2013, 08:36:52 PM ---
--- Quote from: Russell Bell on September 02, 2013, 08:16:48 PM ---govt is amoral, as it pretends to know who should get what and when.
whereas freedom is neither moral or immoral. cornell and mdogg dont realize that.
and mfrogg if youre taking cornell west seriously, then youve got problems son.
--- End quote ---
A dead clock is right 2 times a day. And in this case this clock is right on in this area. Plus, I'm not saying government is the solution either. The solution is the community, it's people. It's local government who represent their neighbors and know their neighbors. I'd argue that the federal government is to big to be effective, but there needs to be some sort of localized government in which people come together, talk police and law, talk education and schools, talk local fire. This is at the heart of society. Markets are a-moral and they don't look at what's best for communities. They look out for what's best for money, and money does not care about people.
--- End quote ---
either this is a new revelation for you, or you dont believe this. you voted for obama and hes not about having local decisions hes about decisions at the federal level 100%. im not an anarchist, im a libertarian and i think that most decisions should be made at the very very local level. IE why should politicians from san fran and LA be making the decisions that rule my life. and thats not even counting the ones in DC, they shouldnt be touching education etc etc. theyre actually ruining education one law/regulation/oversight at a time, but thats just one example.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, well I voted for Obama and Obama wants to go into Syria and I disagree with that too. I'm not married to the man.
--- End quote ---
but my point is, and this is my issue with your politics really, that obamas whole philosophy is govt driven solutions. he says it, and thats what hes been about. so again, either you just found this philosophy or you dont really believe it.
--- End quote ---
Remember, I was heavy for Obama in 2007-08, and I said then I agree with 80% of what he is about. Not 100%. Over time, I have aged, gotten older and have grown wiser. I'd say I'm still about 55% in agreement with Obama. I like the IDEA of a national healthcare plan, but Obamacare is not the answer. I prefer a single payer system. I think that federal government is WAY too large to enforce things like drug laws, marriage laws, and ANYTHING to do with education. BUT there should be some national standard that the federal government has that gives local governments guidelines, like with education the government should say that by 3rd grade your kids should read, write a paragraph and be able to multiply. Or that well drugs are decriminalize, local government should be able to provide help for those who use drugs, and if local governments can't afford to do so, the federal government can set aside money for local government to use.
Being involved with my local Democratic Party for 4 years during Obama's first term, I saw government as different. Once it hits Washington, ideas become washed out and you get crap. Instead, the federal government should be able to support local governments, and most of the decisions should be done by local government. I said as much last spring when I said that Washington is were politicians go to get corrupted but local government is were the actual running of government happens. So we should break down Washington and make it so it really only functions to have a military, federal mail, set standards and guidelines for local governments to follow, and be able to support local governments, have a single payer health care system, and provide a safety net for people in case of unemployment and keep Social Security.
TraceOneInfinite:
I watched the whole video, MDogg. Thanks for posting, homie. I agree with Dr. Cornell West on Somalia, drones, Malcolm and Martin's dream of attending the United Nations together, Al Sharpton.... but when it comes to economics this guy is a socialist, and socialism and entitlement programs have only lead to a further decay of the "black integrity" that he's talking about.
The free market actually creates virtue. Because a person has an economic incentive to produce, build a reputation, and if they fail in doing so then they will not live a profitable life.
When you have socialism and entitlement programs it encourages everybody to become a victim so that they can receive handouts from the government (by way of the taxpayers), the whole system and economy then becomes dragged down and loses efficiency. As Libertarian mastermind Harry Browne says, "If you try to use government programs to aid 100 poor and sick people, then upon helping those 100 people, you will find that the following day you will have 1,000 such poor and sick people waiting in line for the same handouts".
The problem is not the free market. It's because of advancements in the free market that you were even able to post this youtube video on this forum. It's actually the free market that ended slavery. How did the free market end slavery? Because it was the industrialization of the North that really challenged the impetus for slavery at it's root.
Thank God for the free market!
M Dogg™:
The free market is a tool and it has it's place. But society cannot be ran by the free market. The free market has to run in order to serve the people, and that's were THIS society has it wrong. We used the free market for years to help us, but now we have flipped and do what we need to prop up the free market and put the market above people. That's Fascism my friend.
Fraxxx:
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on September 03, 2013, 10:30:14 AM ---The free market is a tool and it has it's place. But society cannot be ran by the free market. The free market has to run in order to serve the people, and that's were THIS society has it wrong. We used the free market for years to help us, but now we have flipped and do what we need to prop up the free market and put the market above people. That's Fascism my friend.
--- End quote ---
I'm all for a little governmental regulation. Especially cuz I think that the free market has no conscious. But what's going on right now and for a long time before is a corrupted and perverted idea of a free market. It's corporatism and politicians bending over for money. It's as perverted as the socialism in so-called socialist countries which, as well, where corrupt through and through.
I find the free-market-perversion to be much more flexible. It works in making people at least believe that the system is good for them.
Finding sensible, sustainable solutions on a local/regional level, like Russel said, would be a good idea. But that's not gonna happen. How would folks get filthy rich then?
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on September 03, 2013, 10:30:14 AM ---The free market is a tool and it has it's place. But society cannot be ran by the free market. The free market has to run in order to serve the people, and that's were THIS society has it wrong. We used the free market for years to help us, but now we have flipped and do what we need to prop up the free market and put the market above people. That's Fascism my friend.
--- End quote ---
The free market always serves the people MDogg. I would love to hear you explain to me exactly how the free market does not serve the people? The free market by it's very essence has to serve the people, because it's very livelihood depends upon consumer purchaser. The wants and needs of the consumer have to be served. Profiting off consumers is the name of the game.
Please explain to me how the free market does not serve the people? I have to hear this one.
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