Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Any Fight Fans?
DeeezNuuuts83:
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---
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--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---
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--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---
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--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---Spot on. I'm married to a Mexican Girl... All I can say is I've had a TON of arguments with her brothers. Cousins. Uncles.. You name it. The night and the few weeks after Marquez KO'd Manny, Marquez was tied with Vicente Fernandez and 2nd only to Jesus Christ in terms of popularity in Mexico. He literally became a God. If there were Elections that week, Marquez would've been written in as President. That segment of fan refuses to see the fight in anyway other than an annihilation. But, reality is that Manny was up.
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I'm not Mexican but I grew up in Oxnard, which is about 70% Mexican. When my brother and I go home and visit our parents, we usually go to this Mexican joint that we've been going to for years (Taqueria el Tapatio), and after that fight, my brother was wearing a Pacquiao shirt and was getting mad dogged left and right. Nobody did anything though, but still, everyone was on that bullshit.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---Manny really should've walked away up 2-0-1 and never looked back. But, being a true Champion he took a lose, lose fight. He beats Marquez, "oh well! Marquez was over anyway." He loses, "ah... you see he was never better than Marquez and he's not ready for Floyd." What can you do. A 5th fight HAS to happen.
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The problem is that Manny didn't have a lot of options at that point, at least none that would be huge successes. He was (officially) coming off of a loss, though personally I think it did win some people back on his side. And even in that loss against a moderately popular boxer (not a big fanbase but I'd say he's a lot better known than other fighters like Guerrero, Petersen, Maidana, Alexander, etc.), the numbers weren't huge... something like 900k PPV buys, which isn't bad but I'd have thought it would've broken a million, but not by much. Still, not bad for a guy who never really had a solid promotional company behind him to build him up. An immediate rematch with Bradley wasn't necessarily a good look since the outcome was so controversial, plus it meant that Top Rank would be doubling Bradley's paycheck since there was an immediate rematch clause guaranteeing Bradley $10 million... which was conveniently avoided since Manny did not fight him immediately afterward. So even if they fight again, he's not contractually obligated to that. Similarly, Manny taking on Bradley in the first place kind of gave Manny's side more bargaining power since Marquez at first demanded a bunch of shit ($10 million guarantee, switching the majority decision to a no contest, his left arm, etc.) to sign for a fourth fight but knew that he'd have to relent since Manny could just fight Bradley again instead for less trouble than that.
And again, outside of another fight with either of them, at that point, he didn't have a lot of options. Cotto declined a rematch (and I think he did it without even telling Top Rank since everyone found out when he took a different fight) and frankly wouldn't have been all that interesting to me (not to say that I wouldn't still watch it). Peterson (who was actually a name they were throwing around) had little marketability or even the ability to make the fight interesting. Everyone else was either too small to make it successful or someone he had already beaten. Pacquiao-Khan would've been interesting, but I can't remember if Khan had split from Roach yet, plus Top Rank and Golden Boy never seem to play nice with each other.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---As for Angel... Well, let's just say if Victor Conte is calling you dirty, you're dirty. Filthy even.
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Yeah, I don't know what Marquez was thinking to hire someone who has been busted for juicing up his athletes. Reformed or not, it's a bad look, one that you really can't afford in terms of preserving your image when you're at that level. ESPECIALLY if you come out looking like that at that age... and then fight through a broken nose and knock the other guy out. In a fight that you REALLY needed to win at all costs.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---If they fight 1 more time, I don't see Manny being as reckless. I see him developing a new game plan. He has to. Because, like you said, Marquez' defense and counter punching are top notch.
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But then he might be too careful, like when he fought Bradley. Obviously the scorecards were all fucked up, but again, he wasn't going in for the kill toward the end of any round. But he clearly could've just shut him down with little risk since Bradley doesn't have KO power and doesn't counterpunch on some Karate Kid II drum technique shit. At the same time, Manny is in his mid-30s... it'll be hard for him to just switch up like that. Roach said the same thing about Hatton, saying that yes, Hatton has learned some new shit from Mayweather Sr., but you can't just drop your old habits after two fights.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---No doubt Khan takes it. It'll be the biggest pay day ever. I call it BS because it's Floyd's first "win" in the fight. Everything Floyd does is calculated. He does it for a reason. Mainly to get under the other persons skin, so that they can come into the fight angry and make mistakes.
I was dying to see Martinez fight Floyd or Manny. But, their camps dodged that bullet. Martinez has not looked good in his last few fights and his camp is trying to get him to dodge GGG. GGG has said he's willing to fight anyone at 154 to 160 or so. That guy and Leo Santa Cruz are my 2 favorite up and comers.
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Floyd does it because he can, and he will always get away with it for obvious reasons. Manny is the only person who stuck it to him, though Manny has lost a lot of leverage after 2012.
I wanted to see Martinez fight one of them too, but I kind of knew that he wouldn't fight Manny since there's too big of a size difference between them, regardless of who put up the roadblock. I can respect that Martinez offered a catchweight of 150 (which is crazy on his part, but more power to him), but then Top Rank was on some bullshit where they also wanted a weight limit on fight night, which would be pretty unfair to Martinez and REALLY unhealthy since the guy walks around closer to 170. Just look at Margarito, who fought mostly at 147 and 154. He was 165 when he fought Manny, with that same catchweight. Martinez fights regularly at 160, so it would be even more difficult for him. But Martinez made Floyd look like a runner by offering a 90/10 split.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 08:15:44 PM ---Right now, Showtime pays way more to show each fight than HBO did. That's part of the reason why Showtime is making as much money as they should be. Showtime has always been in the picture, but HBO has always just been smarter about their business. But, Showtime showed their potential for risk by partnering up with Golden Boy and making HBO side exclusively with Top Rank. We'll see how it plays out.
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In the end, it will work out for Showtime. They have Floyd. HBO has Manny. They'll both always be big draws, but Floyd has bigger numbers (on average) and is who more fighters want to fight. Fighters will still fight Manny, but there's less of an allure in doing it since he racked up two Ls already. But I've always thought that Golden Boy generally did a better job at building up their whole stable in terms of quality and quantity with a lot of guys of varying popularity. I felt like Top Rank wasn't as good at that when Golden Boy came to be and grew into what they are today. In the past few years, guys were only signing to Top Rank to get a chance to fight Manny (like Mosley, Marquez and Bradley) and not necessarily because of other opportunities that didn't involve that. There are the guys who were there before Manny blew up (such as Cotto, Margarito, Mike Jones, etc.) but a lot of them faded away. Cotto left to get the Mayweather fight, then he came back but isn't exactly on a winning streak. A lot of the other guys (Rios, Alvarado, Donaire, etc.) are good, entertaining boxers, but I just don't see them becoming superstars.
whoisthis:
--- Quote from: DeeezNuuuts83 on September 04, 2013, 08:52:46 PM ---
I'm not Mexican but I grew up in Oxnard, which is about 70% Mexican. When my brother and I go home and visit our parents, we usually go to this Mexican joint that we've been going to for years (Taqueria el Tapatio), and after that fight, my brother was wearing a Pacquiao shirt and was getting mad dogged left and right. Nobody did anything though, but still, everyone was on that bullshit.
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I hear you. I watched the fight here in the L.A. area. It was pretty much 98% Mexican in the Bar I was at. Anything Manny did was ignored and any little thing Marquez did was cheered loudly.
--- Quote ---The problem is that Manny didn't have a lot of options at that point, at least none that would be huge successes. He was (officially) coming off of a loss, though personally I think it did win some people back on his side. And even in that loss against a moderately popular boxer (not a big fanbase but I'd say he's a lot better known than other fighters like Guerrero, Petersen, Maidana, Alexander, etc.), the numbers weren't huge... something like 900k PPV buys, which isn't bad but I'd have thought it would've broken a million, but not by much. Still, not bad for a guy who never really had a solid promotional company behind him to build him up. An immediate rematch with Bradley wasn't necessarily a good look since the outcome was so controversial, plus it meant that Top Rank would be doubling Bradley's paycheck since there was an immediate rematch clause guaranteeing Bradley $10 million... which was conveniently avoided since Manny did not fight him immediately afterward. So even if they fight again, he's not contractually obligated to that. Similarly, Manny taking on Bradley in the first place kind of gave Manny's side more bargaining power since Marquez at first demanded a bunch of shit ($10 million guarantee, switching the majority decision to a no contest, his left arm, etc.) to sign for a fourth fight but knew that he'd have to relent since Manny could just fight Bradley again instead for less trouble than that.
And again, outside of another fight with either of them, at that point, he didn't have a lot of options. Cotto declined a rematch (and I think he did it without even telling Top Rank since everyone found out when he took a different fight) and frankly wouldn't have been all that interesting to me (not to say that I wouldn't still watch it). Peterson (who was actually a name they were throwing around) had little marketability or even the ability to make the fight interesting. Everyone else was either too small to make it successful or someone he had already beaten. Pacquiao-Khan would've been interesting, but I can't remember if Khan had split from Roach yet, plus Top Rank and Golden Boy never seem to play nice with each other.
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I think it boils down the whole Top Rank/Golden Boy beef for the Manny/Marquez 4. You're right, he had no other real viable choices and went with whatever was left. It's a shame. If I remember correctly, Khan and Roach split at the end of 2012. I think the timing wasn't right for Khan to get a new Trainer and take a big fight like that.
--- Quote ---Yeah, I don't know what Marquez was thinking to hire someone who has been busted for juicing up his athletes. Reformed or not, it's a bad look, one that you really can't afford in terms of preserving your image when you're at that level. ESPECIALLY if you come out looking like that at that age... and then fight through a broken nose and knock the other guy out. In a fight that you REALLY needed to win at all costs.
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This quote from Marquez proves something to me:
--- Quote ---Bradley is just reflecting the fear that he is feeling. I would like to do the examinations with USADA, but I am not going to fall into this game. He is the one who needs this fight. The most important victory of my career - I already achieved it [against Pacquiao], but [Bradley] is becoming arrogant. We are ready to get tested. He wants to do it with VADA....I prefer to do it with USADA. I have never tested positive. I do not know why Bradley is [talking the way he is]
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Essentially, he's saying that he has nothing left to prove, why would he dope in this fight.
--- Quote ---But then he might be too careful, like when he fought Bradley. Obviously the scorecards were all fucked up, but again, he wasn't going in for the kill toward the end of any round. But he clearly could've just shut him down with little risk since Bradley doesn't have KO power and doesn't counterpunch on some Karate Kid II drum technique shit. At the same time, Manny is in his mid-30s... it'll be hard for him to just switch up like that. Roach said the same thing about Hatton, saying that yes, Hatton has learned some new shit from Mayweather Sr., but you can't just drop your old habits after two fights.
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That could very well be. Good point. I think that Manny got penalized because of that. He just has to be less risky. But, it's not in Manny. He always wants to put on a fight. He wants the fans to be happy. It's a curse.
--- Quote ---I wanted to see Martinez fight one of them too, but I kind of knew that he wouldn't fight Manny since there's too big of a size difference between them, regardless of who put up the roadblock. I can respect that Martinez offered a catchweight of 150 (which is crazy on his part, but more power to him), but then Top Rank was on some bullshit where they also wanted a weight limit on fight night, which would be pretty unfair to Martinez and REALLY unhealthy since the guy walks around closer to 170. Just look at Margarito, who fought mostly at 147 and 154. He was 165 when he fought Manny, with that same catchweight. Martinez fights regularly at 160, so it would be even more difficult for him. But Martinez made Floyd look like a runner by offering a 90/10 split.
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Martinez just wanted the fight. He didn't care what he had to do (save for depriving himself). I feel the Champ has the right to be a bit more selective when it comes to Catchweights, but sometimes the demands these fighters make is ridiculous.
--- Quote ---In the end, it will work out for Showtime. They have Floyd. HBO has Manny. They'll both always be big draws, but Floyd has bigger numbers (on average) and is who more fighters want to fight. Fighters will still fight Manny, but there's less of an allure in doing it since he racked up two Ls already. But I've always thought that Golden Boy generally did a better job at building up their whole stable in terms of quality and quantity with a lot of guys of varying popularity. I felt like Top Rank wasn't as good at that when Golden Boy came to be and grew into what they are today. In the past few years, guys were only signing to Top Rank to get a chance to fight Manny (like Mosley, Marquez and Bradley) and not necessarily because of other opportunities that didn't involve that. There are the guys who were there before Manny blew up (such as Cotto, Margarito, Mike Jones, etc.) but a lot of them faded away. Cotto left to get the Mayweather fight, then he came back but isn't exactly on a winning streak. A lot of the other guys (Rios, Alvarado, Donaire, etc.) are good, entertaining boxers, but I just don't see them becoming superstars.
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No doubt it'll work. But at what expense to Boxing in the long run? I think the Networks and Promotions need to get over the pissing contest.
DeeezNuuuts83:
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 09:37:18 PM ---I think it boils down the whole Top Rank/Golden Boy beef for the Manny/Marquez 4. You're right, he had no other real viable choices and went with whatever was left. It's a shame. If I remember correctly, Khan and Roach split at the end of 2012. I think the timing wasn't right for Khan to get a new Trainer and take a big fight like that.
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It started well before that though, as 2011 had Top Rank snatching two of Golden Boy's free agents out of their contract -- Mosley and Marquez. Remember that before Pacquiao-Marquez III was official, there was some clause where Marquez would have some obligation to them if they could match the terms offered by Top Rank with some other fight. Golden Boy offered Marquez a Canelo fight at 147 (which was already a stretch for a big boy like him), but then the talk of Marquez's camp requesting a catchweight of either 143 or 144 against Manny (I can't remember which one it was) kind of killed off the Canelo fight since it would've been extremely difficult for Canelo to go down even lower in weight, so he was clear to walk away.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 09:37:18 PM ---This quote from Marquez proves something to me
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That's just Marquez though... doing a bit of backpedaling and contradicting statements. He says that he chose Bradley over a fifth fight with Manny because to him it wasn't about the money to him (as he would've made four or five times as much fighting Manny again), yet remember that he originally wanted $15 million, then Top Rank offered him $12 million, then he said he wanted $20 million.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 09:37:18 PM ---That could very well be. Good point. I think that Manny got penalized because of that. He just has to be less risky. But, it's not in Manny. He always wants to put on a fight. He wants the fans to be happy. It's a curse.
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Yeah, remember that when interviewed, the judges of the Pacquiao-Bradley fight were saying stuff like, "The old Manny would've finished him off," so it seemed as if their scoring of the fight was based on how Manny from 2009-2010 would've done rather than what was actually happening in front of them. But Manny knows he has to make something exciting happen, since that's what brought fame to him in the first place. People watched Manny fights because there was guaranteed destruction. Manny's wins that made it to the cards were generally not crowd pleasers, except maybe the Margarito fight. So he knows that his crazy offense that made him so vulnerable in the first place is what gets people to cheer for him, contrasting to people cheering for Floyd when he dodges a punch and lands ONE right in his opponents face, then safely pulls out of reach. Different expectations for Manny fights.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 09:37:18 PM ---Martinez just wanted the fight. He didn't care what he had to do (save for depriving himself). I feel the Champ has the right to be a bit more selective when it comes to Catchweights, but sometimes the demands these fighters make is ridiculous.
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If you're talking about the Manny thing, that was a suggestion of Bob Arum's. I don't think Manny really wanted a weight limit for fight night. But Pacquiao-Martinez was a lot less likely than Mayweather-Martinez, so I suppose it was an easy way to shut down that idea rather than play along and pretend that the fight will happen. Manny is a small guy... there are plenty of guys at junior welterweight who weigh more than he does when it comes to fight night weight. He tried 150 once and felt it was just too big of a weight category for him, which makes sense when you're fighting a guy 17 pounds heavier than you, this far away from the heavyweight division. Remember, he didn't even weight 150 on fight night against Margarito.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 04, 2013, 09:37:18 PM ---No doubt it'll work. But at what expense to Boxing in the long run? I think the Networks and Promotions need to get over the pissing contest.
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You're right, but it's extremely difficult for actual networks to play together since it's based on channels being ordered... unless there is some insane merger and the two companies become one. But as long as the two promotional companies are of similar sizes (meaning $$$), then it can happen, which is how Top Rank and Golden Boy were able to put together as many fights as they did from 2007-2009. But it's also why Top Rank had some difficulty setting up Cotto-Martinez when it was a potential fight. Maybe they were purposely dodging the fighter, but there were valid points about Martinez's promotional company (can't remember which one it is) being relatively small and not having the capital to equally co-promote a Cotto fight. (Obviously they got along and made Martinez-Chavez Jr. happen though, but Chavez Jr. is far less popular than Cotto... just think of how less of a shit people would give about him if he weren't JCC's son.)
Though now, it's just their egos constantly going at it, and both sides' heads are at fault. Bob Arum snaps at people more than he should (remember how he dissed Donaire's wife and basically said she dressed trashy?), but he's at least a promoter at heart and has been doing this for decades. When Oscar talks about his fighters, it's just obvious throat gagging of the guy without any of the finesse a seasoned promoter would have when putting words together. And Schaefer is the biggest fucking idiot... dude is a banker. I'm sure he's good with the financials, but the guy needs to stop talking to the media. This was the same guy who, during the promotion of Mayweather-Mosley, said that he expected it to break the record of De La Hoya-Mayweather and put up numbers between 3 and 4 million PPV buys (no joke, he said that), and it ended up being less than half of the lower estimate -- not that 1.4 million is anything to be disappointed with, but while you're obviously supposed to talk up your events, don't bullshit people with obvious falsehoods. And they called it "Who R U Picking?" for crying out loud. I thought I was ordering a posthumous 2Pac album when I saw that title.
whoisthis:
--- Quote from: DeeezNuuuts83 on September 04, 2013, 11:52:36 PM ---
It started well before that though, as 2011 had Top Rank snatching two of Golden Boy's free agents out of their contract -- Mosley and Marquez. Remember that before Pacquiao-Marquez III was official, there was some clause where Marquez would have some obligation to them if they could match the terms offered by Top Rank with some other fight. Golden Boy offered Marquez a Canelo fight at 147 (which was already a stretch for a big boy like him), but then the talk of Marquez's camp requesting a catchweight of either 143 or 144 against Manny (I can't remember which one it was) kind of killed off the Canelo fight since it would've been extremely difficult for Canelo to go down even lower in weight, so he was clear to walk away.
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Never heard about that. Props
--- Quote ---That's just Marquez though... doing a bit of backpedaling and contradicting statements. He says that he chose Bradley over a fifth fight with Manny because to him it wasn't about the money to him (as he would've made four or five times as much fighting Manny again), yet remember that he originally wanted $15 million, then Top Rank offered him $12 million, then he said he wanted $20 million.
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I just took it more that Marquez wouldn't have to cheat in a fight with Bradley after he's already had the biggest win of his career.
--- Quote ---Yeah, remember that when interviewed, the judges of the Pacquiao-Bradley fight were saying stuff like, "The old Manny would've finished him off," so it seemed as if their scoring of the fight was based on how Manny from 2009-2010 would've done rather than what was actually happening in front of them. But Manny knows he has to make something exciting happen, since that's what brought fame to him in the first place. People watched Manny fights because there was guaranteed destruction. Manny's wins that made it to the cards were generally not crowd pleasers, except maybe the Margarito fight. So he knows that his crazy offense that made him so vulnerable in the first place is what gets people to cheer for him, contrasting to people cheering for Floyd when he dodges a punch and lands ONE right in his opponents face, then safely pulls out of reach. Different expectations for Manny fights.
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Yeah. The Judges/Refs/Umps are not perfect in any Sport. They really use perception or bias (at times) in their decision making.
--- Quote ---If you're talking about the Manny thing, that was a suggestion of Bob Arum's. I don't think Manny really wanted a weight limit for fight night. But Pacquiao-Martinez was a lot less likely than Mayweather-Martinez, so I suppose it was an easy way to shut down that idea rather than play along and pretend that the fight will happen. Manny is a small guy... there are plenty of guys at junior welterweight who weigh more than he does when it comes to fight night weight. He tried 150 once and felt it was just too big of a weight category for him, which makes sense when you're fighting a guy 17 pounds heavier than you, this far away from the heavyweight division. Remember, he didn't even weight 150 on fight night against Margarito.
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Yeah. I'm talking Manny. Decisions rarely come from Manny. If he could catchweight with Vitali or Wlad he would. It's his camp that makes outlandish claims and demands sometimes. On the Mayweather side, Ellerbee just smiles and nods to whatever Floyd says. Floyd calls those shots. So, when he ducks a fight, he can't put it on his camp, it's all on him. I know Manny would've fought Martinez at virtually any weight, because that's the kind of heart he has.
--- Quote ---You're right, but it's extremely difficult for actual networks to play together since it's based on channels being ordered... unless there is some insane merger and the two companies become one. But as long as the two promotional companies are of similar sizes (meaning $$$), then it can happen, which is how Top Rank and Golden Boy were able to put together as many fights as they did from 2007-2009. But it's also why Top Rank had some difficulty setting up Cotto-Martinez when it was a potential fight. Maybe they were purposely dodging the fighter, but there were valid points about Martinez's promotional company (can't remember which one it is) being relatively small and not having the capital to equally co-promote a Cotto fight. (Obviously they got along and made Martinez-Chavez Jr. happen though, but Chavez Jr. is far less popular than Cotto... just think of how less of a shit people would give about him if he weren't JCC's son.)
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What I mean behind the Networks playing nice is the whole "well we won't work with you, if your work them" thing that HBO implemented. Of course, they'll always compete, but to start shutting a promotion out for working with another network isn't good for the sport. Martinez works with DiBella. DiBella has been trying to protect Martinez as best he could, especially now with GGG looming.
Nationally, the Cotto fight would've made a lot of sense. But, they had the Chavez Jr fight in Vegas and if I'm not mistaken, it sold out even competing with Canelo/Josesito down the street on the same night. In California, the buying power the name "Chavez" has in Boxing is crazy. I remember just before that fight, the idea was kicked out that Canelo and Chavez Jr. would go to Mexico City and fight in a Soccer Stadium. I still that's a huge possibility. But, you're right, if Chavez Jr. was Castro or Castillo... nobody would give him the time of day.
--- Quote ---Though now, it's just their egos constantly going at it, and both sides' heads are at fault. Bob Arum snaps at people more than he should (remember how he dissed Donaire's wife and basically said she dressed trashy?), but he's at least a promoter at heart and has been doing this for decades. When Oscar talks about his fighters, it's just obvious throat gagging of the guy without any of the finesse a seasoned promoter would have when putting words together. And Schaefer is the biggest fucking idiot... dude is a banker. I'm sure he's good with the financials, but the guy needs to stop talking to the media. This was the same guy who, during the promotion of Mayweather-Mosley, said that he expected it to break the record of De La Hoya-Mayweather and put up numbers between 3 and 4 million PPV buys (no joke, he said that), and it ended up being less than half of the lower estimate -- not that 1.4 million is anything to be disappointed with, but while you're obviously supposed to talk up your events, don't bullshit people with obvious falsehoods. And they called it "Who R U Picking?" for crying out loud. I thought I was ordering a posthumous 2Pac album when I saw that title.
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Arum is a dinosaur. I actually think if he Retired Boxing would be a better place. He's put down everyone, even UFC fans. Oscar on the other hand only talks in "spin." I laugh whenever I hear Oscar talk. Don't get me started on Schaefer either. Dude is Ellerbee with an accent. Too bad you weren't at the Mayweather/Canelo press conference. He said "The One" somewhere around 80 times in his time on the mic. It was terrible.
DeeezNuuuts83:
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM ---
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--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM ---
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--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM ---Yeah. I'm talking Manny. Decisions rarely come from Manny. If he could catchweight with Vitali or Wlad he would. It's his camp that makes outlandish claims and demands sometimes. On the Mayweather side, Ellerbee just smiles and nods to whatever Floyd says. Floyd calls those shots. So, when he ducks a fight, he can't put it on his camp, it's all on him. I know Manny would've fought Martinez at virtually any weight, because that's the kind of heart he has.
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Yeah, some people say that it shows that Manny is a puppet, but I just view it as Manny not really caring that much, in the sense that he has a mentality of, "Put someone in front of me, and I'll fight them, it's not a big deal." I remember there being a video on YouTube a year or two ago where Manny is in the Philippines and he walks in on some of his buddies watching the end of a Martinez fight (though I can't remember who the opponent was), and Manny watched some of it, and was just saying, "I could beat him." And it wasn't in a joking manner either, as he was actually watching it. That's not to say I believe him or that it would be as easy as he made it sound, but Manny enjoys a good fight. But again, I just really don't see Pacquiao-Martinez as realistic, catchweights or not.
But I agree, Mayweather calls his own shots (which unfortunately has caused a bit of diva shit here and there), but because of that, he can't deflect the blame to anyone else on his side, like you said.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM ---Nationally, the Cotto fight would've made a lot of sense. But, they had the Chavez Jr fight in Vegas and if I'm not mistaken, it sold out even competing with Canelo/Josesito down the street on the same night. In California, the buying power the name "Chavez" has in Boxing is crazy. I remember just before that fight, the idea was kicked out that Canelo and Chavez Jr. would go to Mexico City and fight in a Soccer Stadium. I still that's a huge possibility. But, you're right, if Chavez Jr. was Castro or Castillo... nobody would give him the time of day.
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Yeah, Golden Boy knew better than to compete with Top Rank's fight. They would've had a chance if Ortiz didn't get his jaw broken earlier that year (since their plan was to make Canelo-Ortiz for that night). But frankly Cotto-Martinez would've been a solid boxing match, but Martinez doesn't have a huge following... plus Puerto Rico vs. Argentina doesn't carry the same intrigue as either one of them vs. Mexico.
--- Quote from: whoisthis on September 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM ---Arum is a dinosaur. I actually think if he Retired Boxing would be a better place. He's put down everyone, even UFC fans. Oscar on the other hand only talks in "spin." I laugh whenever I hear Oscar talk. Don't get me started on Schaefer either. Dude is Ellerbee with an accent. Too bad you weren't at the Mayweather/Canelo press conference. He said "The One" somewhere around 80 times in his time on the mic. It was terrible
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Arum has done damage but the guy knows how to put fights together. He just needs to think before he speaks sometimes. But without Arum, that would really just leave Golden Boy as the head honcho, which would cause too much of a monopoly since everyone else is just really small. All of these fighters with their corny little "promotional companies" that in reality really don't do even 10% of the work in their own fights don't have the know-how to run their businesses, let alone control their own personal finances. 50 Cent is trying to come up with his SMS Promotions, but I always felt he was more about promoting his headphones (also called SMS) and co-promoting events (like how he put Gamboa on the undercard of Pacquiao-Marquez IV). But 50 is business-minded enough to pull it off, but his stable is really, really small at the moment.
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