Canelo vs. Angulo

[whoisthis]

Schaefer is a business man, nothing more. Oscar made the smart decision of actually having a business man run his company. But, Schaefer is just a face, a talking head. Boxing decisions are made elsewhere for GB.

I don't know what 50's net worth is, but I don't know that he has the money to put up for a Floyd fight. Maybe in a few years, but right now, I really only see 2 parties with the funds: Top Rank and Golden Boy.

Canelo isn't your prototypical Mexican fighter. But, he has a ton of appeal. Mexicans love the guy. My mother in law knows absolutely nothing about sports. She mentioned to me that Canelo was fighting soon. I couldn't believe it. He co-workers (all Mexican ladies) were talking about it. His legend is growing and it will only grow as long as he continues to win. A lot of people loved Oscar, but your Mexican Nationals and your "Chicano" populations all hated him because he wasn't a "real" Mexican. Canelo gets all that crowd, as well as the Mexican Americans. Canelo's legend is all built on his appearance and himself, not even his performance. That's why I really think he's only going to continue to get bigger. GB is only going to find safer fights for the guy to build him. Once he learns English, he'll be able to bring in the rest of the population. But, in Boxing, having the Mexican crowd behind you is huge.

I think the Pacquiao/Bradley fight will do decent numbers. But, he has to do over a Mil for it to be considered a success. Floyd did 900 or so against Guerrerro and that was a flop. For the case to be made, Manny has to crush Bradley and put up big PPV numbers. That takes away the GB/Floyd excuses.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Schaefer is a business man, nothing more. Oscar made the smart decision of actually having a business man run his company. But, Schaefer is just a face, a talking head. Boxing decisions are made elsewhere for GB.

I don't know what 50's net worth is, but I don't know that he has the money to put up for a Floyd fight. Maybe in a few years, but right now, I really only see 2 parties with the funds: Top Rank and Golden Boy.

Schaefer makes sure that they don't run out of money, and that their investments make them more money... and he does that well, and Golden Boy has become a powerhouse, since they have the financials to keep paying Floyd.  I think 50's net worth is around $300 million, and he seems to be pretty good with his business decisions.  I'd say to set up a Floyd fight (assuming it's not with Manny), you'll need at least $100 million readily available to play with, as far as paying out guarantees, legal fees, promotion, renting venues, etc., though of course you can get some money coming in right away from advertising, broadcasting deals, etc.

Canelo isn't your prototypical Mexican fighter. But, he has a ton of appeal. Mexicans love the guy. My mother in law knows absolutely nothing about sports. She mentioned to me that Canelo was fighting soon. I couldn't believe it. He co-workers (all Mexican ladies) were talking about it. His legend is growing and it will only grow as long as he continues to win. A lot of people loved Oscar, but your Mexican Nationals and your "Chicano" populations all hated him because he wasn't a "real" Mexican. Canelo gets all that crowd, as well as the Mexican Americans. Canelo's legend is all built on his appearance and himself, not even his performance. That's why I really think he's only going to continue to get bigger. GB is only going to find safer fights for the guy to build him. Once he learns English, he'll be able to bring in the rest of the population. But, in Boxing, having the Mexican crowd behind you is huge.

Mexicans love him because he's likely the next Mexican star, and they are very supportive of their own fighters, even though there are so many of them.  Yes, his legend will grow, but he's already lost, which kind of takes away from his appeal, since him being undefeated was a big part of what made him a good choice for a Mayweather fight.  He can regain the appeal, but he would really need to kick things up a notch.  And like I said, it takes growing a big fanbase outside of your own community to become successful.  Just look at Manny... while Filipinos don't represent a big chunk of the population, obviously if he didn't make a breakthrough with the other demographics, he wouldn't have been racking up PPV buys the way he was from 2008-2012.

Oscar still had the support of the Mexican community, even though he was always more Mexican-American to them.  But remember when he was young, he still spoke with a somewhat heavy accent ("goad maydoe" instead of gold medal).  But the crowd was split when he'd face the "true" Mexicans like JCC, though of course beating him twice won him some points.  Fernando Vargas was always very much in touch with the Chicano community, and that was a big thing he pushed when he trying to get a fight with Oscar, calling him a sellout and basically trying to out-Mexican him too.  But he still won, and it's not like the Mexicans who were rooting for the other Mexican booed him.

I think the Pacquiao/Bradley fight will do decent numbers. But, he has to do over a Mil for it to be considered a success. Floyd did 900 or so against Guerrerro and that was a flop. For the case to be made, Manny has to crush Bradley and put up big PPV numbers. That takes away the GB/Floyd excuses.

Not to hold them to different standards when numbers are numbers, but look at who they were dealing with and also what kind of money they were investing and how much they would need in order to recoup the money and what they were expecting.  Aside from being undefeated, Floyd takes a lot of pride in PPV buys (and the subsequent revenue).  Additionally, when they are giving the guy a $32 million guarantee, you pay that amount because you are expecting a lot to be generated and a shit ton of profit.  It's like Hollywood... no company wants to invest $150 million into a movie if it's only going to make $160 million.  Yes, it's profit, but it takes a lot to pull the money together and make a big event.  Companies put out Batman and Marvel movies because they know their $200+ million investment will be multiplied.  So with Mayweather-Guerrero, the PPV generated probably around $55 million... which, after Mayweather's $32 million is paid (and he likely didn't get more than his guarantee since it was so high but the PPV sales weren't), Guerrero got his $3 million guarantee, paying all of the employees, promotion, etc., then the profit they generated ended up being what you could get out of a CD account, but without all the hassle.  To be fair, similarly, Pacquiao-Rios was also a bit of a dud, but Manny did take a paycut, going from $26 million (which he got against Marquez, even though it was still following a loss in a fight where he also got $26 million) to $18 million.

But yes... that fight needs to be a good one, but realistically speaking, Floyd and Golden Boy aren't magically going to cave in for a late 2014 fight while Manny is still with Top Rank.  Expect the winner to likely face off against Marquez again.  Yes, it will be yet another fight between Pacquiao and Marquez, but it's not like people don't want to see it.

[whoisthis]

Schaefer makes sure that they don't run out of money, and that their investments make them more money... and he does that well, and Golden Boy has become a powerhouse, since they have the financials to keep paying Floyd.  I think 50's net worth is around $300 million, and he seems to be pretty good with his business decisions.  I'd say to set up a Floyd fight (assuming it's not with Manny), you'll need at least $100 million readily available to play with, as far as paying out guarantees, legal fees, promotion, renting venues, etc., though of course you can get some money coming in right away from advertising, broadcasting deals, etc.

Yeah, that's why I'm saying, 50 doesn't have the money to do that. If 50 is spending 1/3 of his money, he could easily go broke. He could bring in investors and that would definitely make him a strong player, because then money is no issue. Oscar's net worth is somewhere around 200 Mil or so. But, he has investors galore which makes Golden Boy that strong. I don't know if 50 has any people investing in his company right now.

Mexicans love him because he's likely the next Mexican star, and they are very supportive of their own fighters, even though there are so many of them.  Yes, his legend will grow, but he's already lost, which kind of takes away from his appeal, since him being undefeated was a big part of what made him a good choice for a Mayweather fight.  He can regain the appeal, but he would really need to kick things up a notch.  And like I said, it takes growing a big fanbase outside of your own community to become successful.  Just look at Manny... while Filipinos don't represent a big chunk of the population, obviously if he didn't make a breakthrough with the other demographics, he wouldn't have been racking up PPV buys the way he was from 2008-2012.

Oscar still had the support of the Mexican community, even though he was always more Mexican-American to them.  But remember when he was young, he still spoke with a somewhat heavy accent ("goad maydoe" instead of gold medal).  But the crowd was split when he'd face the "true" Mexicans like JCC, though of course beating him twice won him some points.  Fernando Vargas was always very much in touch with the Chicano community, and that was a big thing he pushed when he trying to get a fight with Oscar, calling him a sellout and basically trying to out-Mexican him too.  But he still won, and it's not like the Mexicans who were rooting for the other Mexican booed him.

Right now, every "star" in Boxing not named Manny, Floyd, Marquez or Cotto are strictly becoming stars based on forecasting. Canelo is no different. I don't know of too many Mexican people who were upset that Canelo lost and don't really hold it against him. Marquez had 3 losses by the time he lost to Manny for the 1st time. After getting routed by Floyd, he was up to 5. On his last fight with Manny, he walked in with 6 total losses and Mexicans couldn't have cared less. The key is, like you said, other demographics. Canelo needs to learn english, that's what really helped Manny. If was speaking Tagalog instead of English, his buys would be increasingly lower.

Oscar was "American-Mexican" to a lot of people. If anyone wanted to get the Mexicans on their side against Oscar, they'd just use that card. Of course, people eventually got over it, but Mexicans hold the "real Mexican" issue very close and are happy when a "real one" pops up and has success. I thought Marquez had cured Cancer the night he beat Manny. The response from the people was crazy.

Not to hold them to different standards when numbers are numbers, but look at who they were dealing with and also what kind of money they were investing and how much they would need in order to recoup the money and what they were expecting.  Aside from being undefeated, Floyd takes a lot of pride in PPV buys (and the subsequent revenue).  Additionally, when they are giving the guy a $32 million guarantee, you pay that amount because you are expecting a lot to be generated and a shit ton of profit.  It's like Hollywood... no company wants to invest $150 million into a movie if it's only going to make $160 million.  Yes, it's profit, but it takes a lot to pull the money together and make a big event.  Companies put out Batman and Marvel movies because they know their $200+ million investment will be multiplied.  So with Mayweather-Guerrero, the PPV generated probably around $55 million... which, after Mayweather's $32 million is paid (and he likely didn't get more than his guarantee since it was so high but the PPV sales weren't), Guerrero got his $3 million guarantee, paying all of the employees, promotion, etc., then the profit they generated ended up being what you could get out of a CD account, but without all the hassle.  To be fair, similarly, Pacquiao-Rios was also a bit of a dud, but Manny did take a paycut, going from $26 million (which he got against Marquez, even though it was still following a loss in a fight where he also got $26 million) to $18 million.

But yes... that fight needs to be a good one, but realistically speaking, Floyd and Golden Boy aren't magically going to cave in for a late 2014 fight while Manny is still with Top Rank.  Expect the winner to likely face off against Marquez again.  Yes, it will be yet another fight between Pacquiao and Marquez, but it's not like people don't want to see it.

Marquez wanted nothing to do with Manny, but now that he was offered Provodnikov he changed his tune.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Yeah, that's why I'm saying, 50 doesn't have the money to do that. If 50 is spending 1/3 of his money, he could easily go broke. He could bring in investors and that would definitely make him a strong player, because then money is no issue. Oscar's net worth is somewhere around 200 Mil or so. But, he has investors galore which makes Golden Boy that strong. I don't know if 50 has any people investing in his company right now.

50 won't go broke from setting up a major fight, as long as the event doesn't suck... which isn't THAT hard.  It wouldn't be too hard for him to get investors if he wanted.  He's probably mentioned in Forbes far more frequently than Oscar.  Even just within his peers from within the hip-hop industry, he's already close to Eminem ($150 million net worth), Dr. Dre ($350 million net worth) and then of course people like Puff ($450 million net worth) and Jay ($450 million net worth).  Plus a lot of those guys are venturing outside of hip-hop, so they might be willing to try something new.  And again, 50 has a lot of business ventures and likely has networked with a lot of people who have the coin to make it happen.

Right now, every "star" in Boxing not named Manny, Floyd, Marquez or Cotto are strictly becoming stars based on forecasting. Canelo is no different. I don't know of too many Mexican people who were upset that Canelo lost and don't really hold it against him. Marquez had 3 losses by the time he lost to Manny for the 1st time. After getting routed by Floyd, he was up to 5. On his last fight with Manny, he walked in with 6 total losses and Mexicans couldn't have cared less. The key is, like you said, other demographics. Canelo needs to learn english, that's what really helped Manny. If was speaking Tagalog instead of English, his buys would be increasingly lower.

But no one really expected Canelo to win (even though his size and undefeated record going into the fight made it interesting), just like how no one expected Marquez to win against Floyd either... so neither lost any of their loyal following.  But Marquez maintained is following by being great to watch, from being very technical and still having some solid punching power, like when he was still roaming around the lightweight division during the time elapsed between his fight with Floyd and his third fight with Manny.  So he's a good fighter to watch, plus he's always pretty energetic.  I feel like at this point, Canelo isn't extremely exciting to watch in the ring, and his personality outside of the ring isn't really all that interesting either.  I agree that if Manny were still mostly restricted to Tagalog (which was still the case around the time of Morales-Pacquiao II), he wouldn't have as many buys, but people would still tune in, since he was fun to watch because he threw a ton of punches and was just knocking guys around the ring.

Marquez wanted nothing to do with Manny, but now that he was offered Provodnikov he changed his tune.

I don't think he changed his tune because of being offered Provodnikov though.  He was just looking for reasons to not fight Manny, since he really doesn't want to risk the end of the story being him putting Manny to bed being changed, but at the same time, he doesn't want to look like anything less than a warrior but he doesn't want to look like he's running either, and he really doesn't have any excuse to not fight the winner this time, particularly if it's Manny.  And at the same time, it's not as if he's taking the winner over Provodnikov (as they likely wanted to set up a potential Marquez-Provodnikov fight for April or May as well).  He just doesn't want to fight him, though I do suspect that he does in fact want a big fight for the end of the year but views Provodnikov as a little risky, which may jeopardize a big fight later on.

[whoisthis]

50 won't go broke from setting up a major fight, as long as the event doesn't suck... which isn't THAT hard.  It wouldn't be too hard for him to get investors if he wanted.  He's probably mentioned in Forbes far more frequently than Oscar.  Even just within his peers from within the hip-hop industry, he's already close to Eminem ($150 million net worth), Dr. Dre ($350 million net worth) and then of course people like Puff ($450 million net worth) and Jay ($450 million net worth).  Plus a lot of those guys are venturing outside of hip-hop, so they might be willing to try something new.  And again, 50 has a lot of business ventures and likely has networked with a lot of people who have the coin to make it happen.

50 has plenty of money, I'm sure, but he'd never want to risk all of his money like that. It would be best for him to reach out to his Hip-Hop contemporaries or other business people to put money together.

But no one really expected Canelo to win (even though his size and undefeated record going into the fight made it interesting), just like how no one expected Marquez to win against Floyd either... so neither lost any of their loyal following.  But Marquez maintained is following by being great to watch, from being very technical and still having some solid punching power, like when he was still roaming around the lightweight division during the time elapsed between his fight with Floyd and his third fight with Manny.  So he's a good fighter to watch, plus he's always pretty energetic.  I feel like at this point, Canelo isn't extremely exciting to watch in the ring, and his personality outside of the ring isn't really all that interesting either.  I agree that if Manny were still mostly restricted to Tagalog (which was still the case around the time of Morales-Pacquiao II), he wouldn't have as many buys, but people would still tune in, since he was fun to watch because he threw a ton of punches and was just knocking guys around the ring.

I'm not sold on Canelo. I figured the only way he'd beat Floyd was if he was able to hit him hard, early. Anything after the 3rd round was too late. But, it seemed like every Mexican person I spoke with didn't want to hear it. They were completely sold on the dude. Even afterwards, they're still sold on him. I think it really has to do with the fact that there is a huge lack of Mexican star power in Boxing right now. Outside of Marquez, the only other truly big name is Chavez Jr. And, from what it seems like, a lot of Mexicans dislike him. Canelo is the man right now for Mexicans. For Boxing fans outside of that group, they see his flaws and don't think much of him. That's why I'm disappointed in this fight with Angulo. I feel it's a safe fight.

I don't think he changed his tune because of being offered Provodnikov though.  He was just looking for reasons to not fight Manny, since he really doesn't want to risk the end of the story being him putting Manny to bed being changed, but at the same time, he doesn't want to look like anything less than a warrior but he doesn't want to look like he's running either, and he really doesn't have any excuse to not fight the winner this time, particularly if it's Manny.  And at the same time, it's not as if he's taking the winner over Provodnikov (as they likely wanted to set up a potential Marquez-Provodnikov fight for April or May as well).  He just doesn't want to fight him, though I do suspect that he does in fact want a big fight for the end of the year but views Provodnikov as a little risky, which may jeopardize a big fight later on.

I really do think he changed his tune for that reason. He felt he would be able to go out there and get big fights. The only fight offered to him was Ruslan. I feel that he looked at that fight and figured he could be in big trouble fighting that kid. Then and only then did he realize that he needed to fight Manny.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I'm not sold on Canelo. I figured the only way he'd beat Floyd was if he was able to hit him hard, early. Anything after the 3rd round was too late. But, it seemed like every Mexican person I spoke with didn't want to hear it. They were completely sold on the dude. Even afterwards, they're still sold on him. I think it really has to do with the fact that there is a huge lack of Mexican star power in Boxing right now. Outside of Marquez, the only other truly big name is Chavez Jr. And, from what it seems like, a lot of Mexicans dislike him. Canelo is the man right now for Mexicans. For Boxing fans outside of that group, they see his flaws and don't think much of him. That's why I'm disappointed in this fight with Angulo. I feel it's a safe fight.

Mexican fans are very loyal though.  Even if they like the other fighter, whether he's Filipino or black or white, they still will root for their own icon whether they think he's going to win or not.  (Conversely, it's not always the case with other cultures.)  But they also appear to be a lot more supportive since they have bigger numbers, as a lot of them do make their way to the events, and you got a lot of boos toward Manny at the Pacquiao-Marquez IV weigh-in and fight, as it's not rare to be in front of a pro-Mexican crowd in Vegas, with so many Mexican communities being within driving distance.

I really do think he changed his tune for that reason. He felt he would be able to go out there and get big fights. The only fight offered to him was Ruslan. I feel that he looked at that fight and figured he could be in big trouble fighting that kid. Then and only then did he realize that he needed to fight Manny.

Yeah, since it's not as if his options were endless (especially coming off of a pretty clear loss), he figures he can fight Manny for a career-high payday (I'm sure he'd end up taking home low eight figures after everything is said and done) with some risk, or he can fight another similarly risky fighter (but slightly less risky) for way less money (maybe $1-2 million) and blow his chances at any other big fights.  The loss to Bradley already killed off some of his steam, especially considering how he turned down $12 million for an immediate rematch with Manny, likely in hopes of winning and then demanding some crazy retirement payday.  And him whining about losing again (just like after his second and third fights with Manny) didn't help, since it's an all too familiar tune we've heard him sing.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I just read something about Arum mentioning that he was trying to set up Marquez vs. Alvarado...

Marquez DOES need a fight in between his last fight against Bradley and taking on the winner of Pacquiao-Bradley II at the end of the year, though he just turned down Provodnikov as a potential opponent, claiming that it would do nothing for his career.  So it's ironic to hear that he might be taking on Alvarado, who didn't go the distance with Provodnikov.  But it's pretty clear Marquez doesn't want to take on anyone too risky to the point where he might lose and miss out on his opportunity for another shot at the welterweight title.

Still, I'd like to see Rios-Alvarado III, since they're 1-1 against each other.

[Nutty]

Has Mayweather announced his next fight? As for ducking Bradley, you really think so?

Mayweather is "letting fans" decide whether he fights Khan or Maidana. I don't know if it's necessarily ducking Bradley, but you do not see a ton of fighters clamoring to fight the guy. He struggled to find a fight after the 1st Pacquiao fight. His style has a lot to do with it. Kinda like Rigondeaux.

Cool....likes its likely Maidana.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I just read that Marquez is taking on Alvarado... weak.  (Not Top Rank's fault... they wanted him to fight Provodnikov, but Marquez said no, and is instead fighting the guy who Provodnikov stopped.)

[DeeezNuuuts83]

While it's no secret, Cotto-Martinez is apparently officially set, since Cotto just tweeted about it.  I guess the holdup was just minor details, like who gets first billing and all that.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Cotto-Martinez is for the title but at a 159 lb. catchweight... which frankly isn't that big of a deal, since it's one pound shy of the limit, plus Martinez isn't that big anyway, as I don't think he really has to work all that hard to make 160 to begin with.

Apparently Cotto and Manny are going to train together, given the fact that they share the same trainer and have fights less than two months apart.  Cotto may even go to the Philippines too, for the first couple of weeks of Manny's training.  Roach said that the two fighters won't spar each other, though it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to at least get a couple of rounds in, since it would help Manny prepare for speed, plus it would also help Cotto prepare for a good southpaw.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

And it looks like we have Mayweather-Maidana for May.

[O.G A.Geesta'z]

do yall know any good boxing torrents, i dont have hbo anymore and i missed the chavez fight tonight, can yall hook it up with a good torrent site or stream site they show replays?

[O.G A.Geesta'z]

My boy Jerry Belmontes won on the under card

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Now that the fight is over and done with...

In a previous post, I had estimated that Canelo vs. Angulo would do 300,000 PPV buys "at best," and it appears as if the final numbers put it at around 350,000 PPV buys.  So while the fight did better than what I expected, I really wasn't that far off.  He's got a bright future ahead of him, but he has the exposure from the Mayweather fight to thank for that, especially since he's coming off of a loss.  Had he not fought Mayweather but still have been undefeated, then that 350,000 would likely have been closer to what I had estimated.