Dexter Isaac (Dude That Robbed 2pac/Jimmy Hencmens Homie) Book Touchs On Alot!!!

[DeeezNuuuts83]

It's surprising to me that nobody has merked Jimmy Henchman yet...real niggas around the planet should be keen to bust on this bitch ass nigga.

Also surprising that nobody ever merked Puff or Haitian Jack.

But you could say the same thing about Suge, with so many people talking about the fucked up things that he did, including having some people killed.  Plus he was very vocal about who he hated when he was released from prison.

Makes you think that Suge really was just a local nigga. He could personally beat the shit out of somebody on the west coast, but he couldn't manage to get a dude on the east coast touched.

It was likely harder to network with the street dudes on the other side of the country, especially being Blood affiliated.  Yes, these days, people are claiming it everywhere, but in 1996, it was still in its infancy on the East Coast, and while they were taking certain elements from the West Coast (claiming Blood, red flagging, use of Suwoop/Damu/etc. in their language), OG Mack and the other founders were pushing UBN to have its own identity (starting it as a prison gang first, claiming 5, some unique but consistent language like O31).  A lot of that has changed though, with some of them distancing themselves from the UBN-originated followings (especially after they started to see through Mack and realized that they were being taught the wrong way, particularly after a lot of West Coast OGs started schooling them somewhat in a "If you're representing what I represent, you're going to do it my way" manner).  A lot of them are pushing Piru now, and there is even a Mob Piru in Jersey that actually has its lineage traced to Compton since some of them actually helped start the set.  But oddly it seems like Jersey always had fairly strong ties with Cali, and there are a lot of gangs out there referencing some here.  There is even a Grape Street Crip out there (even though they aren't geographically on a Grape Street), still wearing purple, throwing the same signs, pushing 103.

Basically, Suge could've had a lot more connections with the East Coast had it been a few years later, and I don't mean hip-hop connections.  The Blood shit really took off out there.  Plus after Suge got out of prison and was taking trips to the East Coast, he was also making connections with the Bloods out there.  I remember seeing some pics of him with the Double-I Bloods, though those didn't really circulate much.

And that would've only been aided by Death Row East, especially if they started signing a lot of the tougher rappers out there, or at least ones who rolled deep.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

For being a shiny suit wearing, bitch, pussy, punk, pop icon... or whatever label you want to put on Puffy.... he sure did get himself caught up in a lot of gangsta type shit in the mid-90's.

Extortion, bounties on chains, high profile robberries, bankrolling and being bankrolled by drug money and other illegal activities.... gangstas and drug dealers ownin stock in Bad Boy...

..shit, all this makes Puff sound like an East Coast Suge Knight

[abusive]

For being a shiny suit wearing, bitch, pussy, punk, pop icon... or whatever label you want to put on Puffy.... he sure did get himself caught up in a lot of gangsta type shit in the mid-90's.

Extortion, bounties on chains, high profile robberries, bankrolling and being bankrolled by drug money and other illegal activities.... gangstas and drug dealers ownin stock in Bad Boy...

..shit, all this makes Puff sound like an East Coast Suge Knight

His pops was a gangsta that was down with Frank Lucas. In the conversation between Frank and Nickey Barnes, Frank talks about how he used to be with Puffy's dad and how he used bounce Puffy on his knee when he was a kid. Maybe his dad's connections helped him in his own life of maybe it's in his blood.

It's surprising to me that nobody has merked Jimmy Henchman yet...real niggas around the planet should be keen to bust on this bitch ass nigga.

Also surprising that nobody ever merked Puff or Haitian Jack.

But you could say the same thing about Suge, with so many people talking about the fucked up things that he did, including having some people killed.  Plus he was very vocal about who he hated when he was released from prison.

Makes you think that Suge really was just a local nigga. He could personally beat the shit out of somebody on the west coast, but he couldn't manage to get a dude on the east coast touched.

It was likely harder to network with the street dudes on the other side of the country, especially being Blood affiliated.  Yes, these days, people are claiming it everywhere, but in 1996, it was still in its infancy on the East Coast, and while they were taking certain elements from the West Coast (claiming Blood, red flagging, use of Suwoop/Damu/etc. in their language), OG Mack and the other founders were pushing UBN to have its own identity (starting it as a prison gang first, claiming 5, some unique but consistent language like O31).  A lot of that has changed though, with some of them distancing themselves from the UBN-originated followings (especially after they started to see through Mack and realized that they were being taught the wrong way, particularly after a lot of West Coast OGs started schooling them somewhat in a "If you're representing what I represent, you're going to do it my way" manner).  A lot of them are pushing Piru now, and there is even a Mob Piru in Jersey that actually has its lineage traced to Compton since some of them actually helped start the set.  But oddly it seems like Jersey always had fairly strong ties with Cali, and there are a lot of gangs out there referencing some here.  There is even a Grape Street Crip out there (even though they aren't geographically on a Grape Street), still wearing purple, throwing the same signs, pushing 103.

Basically, Suge could've had a lot more connections with the East Coast had it been a few years later, and I don't mean hip-hop connections.  The Blood shit really took off out there.  Plus after Suge got out of prison and was taking trips to the East Coast, he was also making connections with the Bloods out there.  I remember seeing some pics of him with the Double-I Bloods, though those didn't really circulate much.

And that would've only been aided by Death Row East, especially if they started signing a lot of the tougher rappers out there, or at least ones who rolled deep.

Yeah they had some Bloods come out from Cali that Treach brought out to East Orange NJ who got that started. Treach brought both Pac and Eazy to the hood before to. A friend of ours has a pic of Eazy when he came to the hood when Treach was filming a video around the way. Plus Treach wrote for on Eazy on the 5150 home of the sick project. Treach even said that when the east coast west coast wars was going on, he was riding for the west. Because what people don't know is that even though Jersey is right next to NY, NY seems to have a hands off policy for Jersey in the industry. I don't know why but NJ is being blackballed by NY for some reason. Artist have flat out told me that.

Then they had the Outlawz coming from Jersey, going to Cali, then coming back to Jersey bringing alot of that knowledge with them. So I agree there is a Cali connection but truth be told, the gang banging out here isn't in the same vein of Cali. It's mainly bloods and it's just a bastardized form of it. Even though what you say is true about the UBN, alot of it was introduced through the music of Game, Wayne and Dipset. So the kids just emulated what they saw but don't really know the history and what not. I'm not going to say that's it not real but I guess you can say the essence of it is missing. It's more like a deadly fad that won't go away.

That Grape street stuff that Arsonal Da Rebel is down with, I don't know nothing about. I know someone that's cool with him but I never asked about it. Next time I see him I will.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Then they had the Outlawz coming from Jersey, going to Cali, then coming back to Jersey bringing alot of that knowledge with them. So I agree there is a Cali connection but truth be told, the gang banging out here isn't in the same vein of Cali. It's mainly bloods and it's just a bastardized form of it. Even though what you say is true about the UBN, alot of it was introduced through the music of Game, Wayne and Dipset. So the kids just emulated what they saw but don't really know the history and what not. I'm not going to say that's it not real but I guess you can say the essence of it is missing. It's more like a deadly fad that won't go away.

I wouldn't say the music introduced it. The Blood shit had started to circulate through NY in 1993 or so, so anyone who was really out there probably saw it themselves long before it was taking over the hip-hop industry in 2005 or so. The only people who were introduced to it from those rappers are either really, really young or not familiar with gangs. There's WAY more Bloods than Crips in NY from what I can tell, so I'm inclined to think that the music may have helped a little bit but probably didn't have a lot to do with its rapid growth.

But like I said before, it's interesting how there's a little more direction being provided to them from West Coast heads. It shows in their sets... originally you had cliques like Nine Trey, G-Shine, SMM, etc., though now you have a few not just carrying the Piru name but also the actual set names, like the aforementioned Mob Piru, plus a few others like 135 Piru. I also thought I had heard that Bounty Hunters have an East Coast set started. And some of them are dropping that 5 nonsense from their lingo.

That Grape street stuff that Arsonal Da Rebel is down with, I don't know nothing about. I know someone that's cool with him but I never asked about it. Next time I see him I will.

Ars is weird. I also follow battle rap so I'm familiar with him. I'm not jabbing at his authenticity but he's done some suspect shit from time to time. Like he claims to have been to the actual Grape Street hood in Jordan Downs in Watts a few times, but word is that he's not welcome there anymore. Apparently he brought Ray Swag with him once, but they didn't know Ray was a Blood until way after, and they were pissed about that. Also, whenever he comes to Cali, he tones down his outfits and doesn't have much purple on and isn't throwing signs, but everywhere else, he's Super Cuzz. But not here. And then some old music of Arsonal's has surfaced where he denounced all gangbanging.

Shotgun Suge also claims GSW out there, but it's been said that he's recognized as one by the ones here. He's a blubbery motherfucker but a real one.

[Hack Wilson - real]

For being a shiny suit wearing, bitch, pussy, punk, pop icon... or whatever label you want to put on Puffy.... he sure did get himself caught up in a lot of gangsta type shit in the mid-90's.

Extortion, bounties on chains, high profile robberries, bankrolling and being bankrolled by drug money and other illegal activities.... gangstas and drug dealers ownin stock in Bad Boy...

..shit, all this makes Puff sound like an East Coast Suge Knight

His pops was a gangsta that was down with Frank Lucas. In the conversation between Frank and Nickey Barnes, Frank talks about how he used to be with Puffy's dad and how he used bounce Puffy on his knee when he was a kid. Maybe his dad's connections helped him in his own life of maybe it's in his blood.

It's surprising to me that nobody has merked Jimmy Henchman yet...real niggas around the planet should be keen to bust on this bitch ass nigga.

Also surprising that nobody ever merked Puff or Haitian Jack.

But you could say the same thing about Suge, with so many people talking about the fucked up things that he did, including having some people killed.  Plus he was very vocal about who he hated when he was released from prison.

Makes you think that Suge really was just a local nigga. He could personally beat the shit out of somebody on the west coast, but he couldn't manage to get a dude on the east coast touched.

It was likely harder to network with the street dudes on the other side of the country, especially being Blood affiliated.  Yes, these days, people are claiming it everywhere, but in 1996, it was still in its infancy on the East Coast, and while they were taking certain elements from the West Coast (claiming Blood, red flagging, use of Suwoop/Damu/etc. in their language), OG Mack and the other founders were pushing UBN to have its own identity (starting it as a prison gang first, claiming 5, some unique but consistent language like O31).  A lot of that has changed though, with some of them distancing themselves from the UBN-originated followings (especially after they started to see through Mack and realized that they were being taught the wrong way, particularly after a lot of West Coast OGs started schooling them somewhat in a "If you're representing what I represent, you're going to do it my way" manner).  A lot of them are pushing Piru now, and there is even a Mob Piru in Jersey that actually has its lineage traced to Compton since some of them actually helped start the set.  But oddly it seems like Jersey always had fairly strong ties with Cali, and there are a lot of gangs out there referencing some here.  There is even a Grape Street Crip out there (even though they aren't geographically on a Grape Street), still wearing purple, throwing the same signs, pushing 103.

Basically, Suge could've had a lot more connections with the East Coast had it been a few years later, and I don't mean hip-hop connections.  The Blood shit really took off out there.  Plus after Suge got out of prison and was taking trips to the East Coast, he was also making connections with the Bloods out there.  I remember seeing some pics of him with the Double-I Bloods, though those didn't really circulate much.

And that would've only been aided by Death Row East, especially if they started signing a lot of the tougher rappers out there, or at least ones who rolled deep.

Yeah they had some Bloods come out from Cali that Treach brought out to East Orange NJ who got that started. Treach brought both Pac and Eazy to the hood before to. A friend of ours has a pic of Eazy when he came to the hood when Treach was filming a video around the way. Plus Treach wrote for on Eazy on the 5150 home of the sick project. Treach even said that when the east coast west coast wars was going on, he was riding for the west. Because what people don't know is that even though Jersey is right next to NY, NY seems to have a hands off policy for Jersey in the industry. I don't know why but NJ is being blackballed by NY for some reason. Artist have flat out told me that.

Then they had the Outlawz coming from Jersey, going to Cali, then coming back to Jersey bringing alot of that knowledge with them. So I agree there is a Cali connection but truth be told, the gang banging out here isn't in the same vein of Cali. It's mainly bloods and it's just a bastardized form of it. Even though what you say is true about the UBN, alot of it was introduced through the music of Game, Wayne and Dipset. So the kids just emulated what they saw but don't really know the history and what not. I'm not going to say that's it not real but I guess you can say the essence of it is missing. It's more like a deadly fad that won't go away.

That Grape street stuff that Arsonal Da Rebel is down with, I don't know nothing about. I know someone that's cool with him but I never asked about it. Next time I see him I will.

yeah, cuz dudes like Redman were totally blackballed from the rap game

[abusive]

Then they had the Outlawz coming from Jersey, going to Cali, then coming back to Jersey bringing alot of that knowledge with them. So I agree there is a Cali connection but truth be told, the gang banging out here isn't in the same vein of Cali. It's mainly bloods and it's just a bastardized form of it. Even though what you say is true about the UBN, alot of it was introduced through the music of Game, Wayne and Dipset. So the kids just emulated what they saw but don't really know the history and what not. I'm not going to say that's it not real but I guess you can say the essence of it is missing. It's more like a deadly fad that won't go away.

I wouldn't say the music introduced it. The Blood shit had started to circulate through NY in 1993 or so, so anyone who was really out there probably saw it themselves long before it was taking over the hip-hop industry in 2005 or so. The only people who were introduced to it from those rappers are either really, really young or not familiar with gangs. There's WAY more Bloods than Crips in NY from what I can tell, so I'm inclined to think that the music may have helped a little bit but probably didn't have a lot to do with its rapid growth.

But like I said before, it's interesting how there's a little more direction being provided to them from West Coast heads. It shows in their sets... originally you had cliques like Nine Trey, G-Shine, SMM, etc., though now you have a few not just carrying the Piru name but also the actual set names, like the aforementioned Mob Piru, plus a few others like 135 Piru. I also thought I had heard that Bounty Hunters have an East Coast set started. And some of them are dropping that 5 nonsense from their lingo.

That Grape street stuff that Arsonal Da Rebel is down with, I don't know nothing about. I know someone that's cool with him but I never asked about it. Next time I see him I will.

Ars is weird. I also follow battle rap so I'm familiar with him. I'm not jabbing at his authenticity but he's done some suspect shit from time to time. Like he claims to have been to the actual Grape Street hood in Jordan Downs in Watts a few times, but word is that he's not welcome there anymore. Apparently he brought Ray Swag with him once, but they didn't know Ray was a Blood until way after, and they were pissed about that. Also, whenever he comes to Cali, he tones down his outfits and doesn't have much purple on and isn't throwing signs, but everywhere else, he's Super Cuzz. But not here. And then some old music of Arsonal's has surfaced where he denounced all gangbanging.

Shotgun Suge also claims GSW out there, but it's been said that he's recognized as one by the ones here. He's a blubbery motherfucker but a real one.

*sigh* Must we battle in every thread? lol
You're talking about NY I'm talking about NJ and I already co-signed part of your post dealing with the UBN. I also spoke on Treach bringing a Bloods from LA. I'm not saying the rap movement that came later was the sole reason cats is out here bloodin'. BUT it was a major factor in recent times. If you think the average cat on the streets of NJ know or even care about some UBN ish in '93 or even now, you are dead wrong. If you think that the bloods went from the jails of NY to the streets of NJ overnight, you are mistaken. Even in the ate 90's in Newark and East Orange the Blood presence wasn't really strong like that. What you are talking about is the start of it in NY but it didn't take hold and become excepted until years later especially in NJ. The music helped it's growth tremendously and popularized it more than anything. What makes you think the three artist I named with millions of dollars in their budgets, all promoting Bloods at the same time during the height of their careers, couldn't make anything they wanted to popular? Anyone will tell you that Wayne helped popularize skinny jeans, rockin' dreds and sippin' syrup and claiming Blood. The Dipset set trends with colors in general from pink, to purple to red. Game added his touch to it too and now you have a generation of fatherless teens claiming blood because of the music, not because some cat came home from a bid and introduced it to them. So to sum it up, yeah there was Bloods in ny and nj (moreso in ny) but once the music industry starting promoting it then it became engrained into society.

Ars be running with Bloods. When Trick Trick ran up on him when he was battling Calicoe he had Bloods holding him down. This is the main cat I seen him with a few times from that 135 set you named: The last comment on the video from a few months ago sums it up.

And mark my words, you going to see an explosion in the Chicago based gangs since the industry is pushing this drill movement. It's just a matter of time before you start seeing the impact. Another dangerous fade of misguided kids killing one another

For being a shiny suit wearing, bitch, pussy, punk, pop icon... or whatever label you want to put on Puffy.... he sure did get himself caught up in a lot of gangsta type shit in the mid-90's.

Extortion, bounties on chains, high profile robberries, bankrolling and being bankrolled by drug money and other illegal activities.... gangstas and drug dealers ownin stock in Bad Boy...

..shit, all this makes Puff sound like an East Coast Suge Knight

His pops was a gangsta that was down with Frank Lucas. In the conversation between Frank and Nickey Barnes, Frank talks about how he used to be with Puffy's dad and how he used bounce Puffy on his knee when he was a kid. Maybe his dad's connections helped him in his own life of maybe it's in his blood.

It's surprising to me that nobody has merked Jimmy Henchman yet...real niggas around the planet should be keen to bust on this bitch ass nigga.

Also surprising that nobody ever merked Puff or Haitian Jack.

But you could say the same thing about Suge, with so many people talking about the fucked up things that he did, including having some people killed.  Plus he was very vocal about who he hated when he was released from prison.

Makes you think that Suge really was just a local nigga. He could personally beat the shit out of somebody on the west coast, but he couldn't manage to get a dude on the east coast touched.

It was likely harder to network with the street dudes on the other side of the country, especially being Blood affiliated.  Yes, these days, people are claiming it everywhere, but in 1996, it was still in its infancy on the East Coast, and while they were taking certain elements from the West Coast (claiming Blood, red flagging, use of Suwoop/Damu/etc. in their language), OG Mack and the other founders were pushing UBN to have its own identity (starting it as a prison gang first, claiming 5, some unique but consistent language like O31).  A lot of that has changed though, with some of them distancing themselves from the UBN-originated followings (especially after they started to see through Mack and realized that they were being taught the wrong way, particularly after a lot of West Coast OGs started schooling them somewhat in a "If you're representing what I represent, you're going to do it my way" manner).  A lot of them are pushing Piru now, and there is even a Mob Piru in Jersey that actually has its lineage traced to Compton since some of them actually helped start the set.  But oddly it seems like Jersey always had fairly strong ties with Cali, and there are a lot of gangs out there referencing some here.  There is even a Grape Street Crip out there (even though they aren't geographically on a Grape Street), still wearing purple, throwing the same signs, pushing 103.

Basically, Suge could've had a lot more connections with the East Coast had it been a few years later, and I don't mean hip-hop connections.  The Blood shit really took off out there.  Plus after Suge got out of prison and was taking trips to the East Coast, he was also making connections with the Bloods out there.  I remember seeing some pics of him with the Double-I Bloods, though those didn't really circulate much.

And that would've only been aided by Death Row East, especially if they started signing a lot of the tougher rappers out there, or at least ones who rolled deep.

Yeah they had some Bloods come out from Cali that Treach brought out to East Orange NJ who got that started. Treach brought both Pac and Eazy to the hood before to. A friend of ours has a pic of Eazy when he came to the hood when Treach was filming a video around the way. Plus Treach wrote for on Eazy on the 5150 home of the sick project. Treach even said that when the east coast west coast wars was going on, he was riding for the west. Because what people don't know is that even though Jersey is right next to NY, NY seems to have a hands off policy for Jersey in the industry. I don't know why but NJ is being blackballed by NY for some reason. Artist have flat out told me that.

Then they had the Outlawz coming from Jersey, going to Cali, then coming back to Jersey bringing alot of that knowledge with them. So I agree there is a Cali connection but truth be told, the gang banging out here isn't in the same vein of Cali. It's mainly bloods and it's just a bastardized form of it. Even though what you say is true about the UBN, alot of it was introduced through the music of Game, Wayne and Dipset. So the kids just emulated what they saw but don't really know the history and what not. I'm not going to say that's it not real but I guess you can say the essence of it is missing. It's more like a deadly fad that won't go away.

That Grape street stuff that Arsonal Da Rebel is down with, I don't know nothing about. I know someone that's cool with him but I never asked about it. Next time I see him I will.

yeah, cuz dudes like Redman were totally blackballed from the rap game

Redman got put on by Eric Sermon, what over twenty years ago? Name me one major artist from Jersey in the last ten years. I'll wait.

[Hack Wilson - real]

PUMP, PUMP, PUMP IT UPPPPP

[DeeezNuuuts83]

*sigh* Must we battle in every thread? lol

It's all good, it's real civil this time. We agree on most of this, maybe just our views of the timing differs.

You're talking about NY I'm talking about NJ and I already co-signed part of your post dealing with the UBN. I also spoke on Treach bringing a Bloods from LA. I'm not saying the rap movement that came later was the sole reason cats is out here bloodin'. BUT it was a major factor in recent times. If you think the average cat on the streets of NJ know or even care about some UBN ish in '93 or even now, you are dead wrong. If you think that the bloods went from the jails of NY to the streets of NJ overnight, you are mistaken. Even in the ate 90's in Newark and East Orange the Blood presence wasn't really strong like that. What you are talking about is the start of it in NY but it didn't take hold and become excepted until years later especially in NJ. The music helped it's growth tremendously and popularized it more than anything. What makes you think the three artist I named with millions of dollars in their budgets, all promoting Bloods at the same time during the height of their careers, couldn't make anything they wanted to popular? Anyone will tell you that Wayne helped popularize skinny jeans, rockin' dreds and sippin' syrup and claiming Blood. The Dipset set trends with colors in general from pink, to purple to red. Game added his touch to it too and now you have a generation of fatherless teens claiming blood because of the music, not because some cat came home from a bid and introduced it to them. So to sum it up, yeah there was Bloods in ny and nj (moreso in ny) but once the music industry starting promoting it then it became engrained into society.

It's not so much about the UBN as it is about just the presence of Bloods in the East Coast. Perhaps the name UBN doesn't ring a ton of bells to some, but the fact is that it played a significant role in red rags coming up out there, further aided by the street gangs at that time that were affiliated with it.

Also, while the rappers you named certainly perpetuate certain trends, they didn't start it. Teens were rocking skinny jeans long before Lil Wayne did, as that was the style of the young generation. Plus dreads aren't exactly taking over the mainstream, and people had them before.

Ars be running with Bloods. When Trick Trick ran up on him when he was battling Calicoe he had Bloods holding him down. This is the main cat I seen him with a few times from that 135 set you named: The last comment on the video from a few months ago sums it up.

Without even clicking on that, I know you're talking about Jiwe. But they weren't really holding him down, since nothing really happened. Calicoe played a way bigger role in nothing happening to Ars, since he told Trick Trick to just leave him be. They took out the audio, but at the end of the battle when they hugged, Ars was asking Cal to hold him down in Detroit. (Cal talked about it briefly in his later battle against Loaded Lux.) But Ars was scared, and he left right away and flew back to NJ... actually leaving Tsu Surf behind, another NJ Crip emcee who was scheduled to battle Big T, but he got arrested in Detroit with a gun (likely just as an extra measure in case the Detroit heads wanted to press them because of what Shotgun Suge said about Proof in his previous battle with Calicoe, hence Trick Trick getting mad when Ars said "My nigga Surf got that Ruger cocked, my nigga Suge got that shotgun").

It's all good to have allies and be on good terms with people who would normally clash with you, but it's kind of corny to be Cripping but having more Bloods around you than your own, especially when you're not even going somewhere that would require them, like going to an all Blood hood. Same thing with when he battled T-Rex in NJ at the first UW battle, bunch of Bloods up onstage with him. Ray Swag has been going with Ars to battles since some of his earliest Grind Time battles in 2008 or 2009.

And mark my words, you going to see an explosion in the Chicago based gangs since the industry is pushing this drill movement. It's just a matter of time before you start seeing the impact. Another dangerous fade of misguided kids killing one another

I don't see it catching on. Remember, there's already Stones out here (Black P Stones), but they are Bloods. But a big part of certain gangs catching on is the identity and not so much what they are doing to put in work. A lot of these things catching on is a style/culture thing, and it's a little less prevalent with Chicago gangs. Not saying they don't go hard, but there's not a lot of flash to it.

For example, Crips had the '90s partially aided by all of the Crips in hip-hop, but people were just always sporting blue anyway, though Crip Walking getting really popular around 1999 or so also put the spotlight on them too, since you had Chinese guys doing it, white guys doing it, etc. But it was just the style, not so much the gangbanging part of it. Then later, Bloods came up on the industry, and you got people in the UK waving red bandannas and talking about Bicken Back Being Bool, throwing up the B for Facebook selfies, and wearing Cincinatti hats or Nationals hats, and I don't doubt that those Bompton hats will start selling big time too, especially with YG sporting them. But it's not like people are also want to be about that life. At least not seriously. Same thing with Sureno gangs, with people trying to get 13s or some shit. It's usually just punk ass teens tagging shit in the bathrooms.

I'm not on expert on Chi gangs, and I know they do their thing, but it's just gangbanging in a different city, but again, they have fewer styling cues for people to mimic. GDs are deep but it's not like they have something flashy that out of towners will want to replicate. No one is copying Chief Keef, and I sense that his 15 minutes have been up. Hopefully he didn't blow his I Don't Like money all on one car.

[abusive]

*sigh* Must we battle in every thread? lol

It's all good, it's real civil this time. We agree on most of this, maybe just our views of the timing differs.

You're talking about NY I'm talking about NJ and I already co-signed part of your post dealing with the UBN. I also spoke on Treach bringing a Bloods from LA. I'm not saying the rap movement that came later was the sole reason cats is out here bloodin'. BUT it was a major factor in recent times. If you think the average cat on the streets of NJ know or even care about some UBN ish in '93 or even now, you are dead wrong. If you think that the bloods went from the jails of NY to the streets of NJ overnight, you are mistaken. Even in the ate 90's in Newark and East Orange the Blood presence wasn't really strong like that. What you are talking about is the start of it in NY but it didn't take hold and become excepted until years later especially in NJ. The music helped it's growth tremendously and popularized it more than anything. What makes you think the three artist I named with millions of dollars in their budgets, all promoting Bloods at the same time during the height of their careers, couldn't make anything they wanted to popular? Anyone will tell you that Wayne helped popularize skinny jeans, rockin' dreds and sippin' syrup and claiming Blood. The Dipset set trends with colors in general from pink, to purple to red. Game added his touch to it too and now you have a generation of fatherless teens claiming blood because of the music, not because some cat came home from a bid and introduced it to them. So to sum it up, yeah there was Bloods in ny and nj (moreso in ny) but once the music industry starting promoting it then it became engrained into society.

It's not so much about the UBN as it is about just the presence of Bloods in the East Coast. Perhaps the name UBN doesn't ring a ton of bells to some, but the fact is that it played a significant role in red rags coming up out there, further aided by the street gangs at that time that were affiliated with it.

Also, while the rappers you named certainly perpetuate certain trends, they didn't start it. Teens were rocking skinny jeans long before Lil Wayne did, as that was the style of the young generation. Plus dreads aren't exactly taking over the mainstream, and people had them before.

Ars be running with Bloods. When Trick Trick ran up on him when he was battling Calicoe he had Bloods holding him down. This is the main cat I seen him with a few times from that 135 set you named: The last comment on the video from a few months ago sums it up.

Without even clicking on that, I know you're talking about Jiwe. But they weren't really holding him down, since nothing really happened. Calicoe played a way bigger role in nothing happening to Ars, since he told Trick Trick to just leave him be. They took out the audio, but at the end of the battle when they hugged, Ars was asking Cal to hold him down in Detroit. (Cal talked about it briefly in his later battle against Loaded Lux.) But Ars was scared, and he left right away and flew back to NJ... actually leaving Tsu Surf behind, another NJ Crip emcee who was scheduled to battle Big T, but he got arrested in Detroit with a gun (likely just as an extra measure in case the Detroit heads wanted to press them because of what Shotgun Suge said about Proof in his previous battle with Calicoe, hence Trick Trick getting mad when Ars said "My nigga Surf got that Ruger cocked, my nigga Suge got that shotgun").

It's all good to have allies and be on good terms with people who would normally clash with you, but it's kind of corny to be Cripping but having more Bloods around you than your own, especially when you're not even going somewhere that would require them, like going to an all Blood hood. Same thing with when he battled T-Rex in NJ at the first UW battle, bunch of Bloods up onstage with him. Ray Swag has been going with Ars to battles since some of his earliest Grind Time battles in 2008 or 2009.

And mark my words, you going to see an explosion in the Chicago based gangs since the industry is pushing this drill movement. It's just a matter of time before you start seeing the impact. Another dangerous fade of misguided kids killing one another

I don't see it catching on. Remember, there's already Stones out here (Black P Stones), but they are Bloods. But a big part of certain gangs catching on is the identity and not so much what they are doing to put in work. A lot of these things catching on is a style/culture thing, and it's a little less prevalent with Chicago gangs. Not saying they don't go hard, but there's not a lot of flash to it.

For example, Crips had the '90s partially aided by all of the Crips in hip-hop, but people were just always sporting blue anyway, though Crip Walking getting really popular around 1999 or so also put the spotlight on them too, since you had Chinese guys doing it, white guys doing it, etc. But it was just the style, not so much the gangbanging part of it. Then later, Bloods came up on the industry, and you got people in the UK waving red bandannas and talking about Bicken Back Being Bool, throwing up the B for Facebook selfies, and wearing Cincinatti hats or Nationals hats, and I don't doubt that those Bompton hats will start selling big time too, especially with YG sporting them. But it's not like people are also want to be about that life. At least not seriously. Same thing with Sureno gangs, with people trying to get 13s or some shit. It's usually just punk ass teens tagging shit in the bathrooms.

I'm not on expert on Chi gangs, and I know they do their thing, but it's just gangbanging in a different city, but again, they have fewer styling cues for people to mimic. GDs are deep but it's not like they have something flashy that out of towners will want to replicate. No one is copying Chief Keef, and I sense that his 15 minutes have been up. Hopefully he didn't blow his I Don't Like money all on one car.

I think what it may be in part is that you are in the inside looking out. Like if you in Cali it's been red and blue since forever and nothing changes. Everywhere else it hasn't been red and blue so when you start to see it it's noticeable. You can't see it being in the Blood Crip capital.

The entertainment industry is what's promoting this gang ish more than cats settin' up shops in other states. From the movie Colors to Bangin' on Wax, to Snoop, to the Blood movement of the mid 2000's. Now that they on this Chi drill music, the Chi gangs is coming soon. Maybe not to a hood near you since your gang culture is etched in stone and isn't easily influenced. But other areas around the globe, not just in the US is going to start to see it on the street. I can say that confidently just by looking at the past and how they already biting the Chi style musically. Cheef Keef is over but the movement isn't. And the main factor with this which has been different in the past is alot of the artist coming out of the Chi are young kids. The consumers are young kids too so it makes what they are doing easier to identify with.

I'm sure Ars needs Jiwe's co-sign if he's in Newark since the majority of the city is Bloods. Ars lives down south somewhere now anyway. I wouldn't doubt that they are cool but their relationship may be more based on business/protection that actual friendship. It's clear they was expecting trouble in the D so I doubt that Jiwe went there for a vacation.

Jiwe was there to hold Ars down and they did have some issues. Here is the audio of Ars and Jiwe talking about what happened.

[Jimmy H.]

It's surprising to me that nobody has merked Jimmy Henchman yet...real niggas around the planet should be keen to bust on this bitch ass nigga.

Also surprising that nobody ever merked Puff or Haitian Jack.

Makes you think that Suge really was just a local nigga. He could personally beat the shit out of somebody on the west coast, but he couldn't manage to get a dude on the east coast touched.

It's not really that surprising to me.  It comes down to money and I think fans have this misconception that Tupac is so beloved that everything will stop on a business and street level so that anyone who did him harm can be murdered and order can be restored. It just doesn't work that way. People move on.  Everyone applauds martyrdom for a moment or two then we go right back to work as usual. It's the nature of humans to think if they expose how bad they have been screwed that it is going to change how people look at the scenario but it almost never does.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in when I was back in high school, this one group of people were convinced that his days were numbered. That people were so angry at him for getting away with murder that surely, someone would take him out. I thought back then, what I think now. Not gonna happen. People get angry and angry and angrier then the issue cools down and nobody gives a shit. The world is filled with microphone and keyboard revolutionaries. People who walk out of inspirational movies convinced that they are going to change the world and then are back to doing the same old shit.

The sad thing about Pac was he was just the right mix of an intelligent thinker and motivated mover. He was the kind of guy that came up with plans and strategized about how to deal with things and could explain things to where the average Joe on the street could really feel it. Problem was when he left, all you had were people trying to preach his sermon and speak for him that just never had it.

[abusive]

Dexter Isaac Reveals Details Of Shooting 2Pac At Quad Studios In 1994
By DJ 1Mic for TheTrillLife.com



Dexter Isaac, is currently serving life without parole for multiple murders and armed robberies. He has released a book detailing his life in the New York City street, as a hitman and muscle for convicted drug kingpin Jimmy "Henchmen" Rosemund who is also serving life in jail for drug trafficking, money laundering and witness tampering. I'm going to break down some of the more interesting stories he shares and try to make sense of all this.

Dexter mentions partying, specifically drinking and smoking with LL Cool J back in the late 80s and early 90s. Most people don't understand that back in those days LL Cool J was one of only a few hip hop stars and was the first to make the incredible money. He was well paid because he was the first hip-hop star not to be signed to an awful one sided contract, from the beginning Russell Simmons always paid his artists correct. So here's, LL Cool J, rich and black, when the list of other guys who were rich and black, is mostly athletes and drug dealers. LL Cool J was around all these guys, and they all respected him because he never changed who he was. LL never acted like a star, he knew the rules of the game, and showed respect and got it the same. He spoke on it on this record off DJ KaySlay's "The Streetsweeper Vol. 2: The Pain From The Game" LP



He mentions the financial ties between the "The Supreme Team" crime orginaztion and Eric B and Rakim. Its never been any secret in hip hop circles, that Eric B always had some of the most notorious street dudes around back then. You have to remember when Rakim came out with that persona of like a mafioso rapper very early in the game, and not one person, ever, EVER questioned the creditibility of Eric B or Rakim.

Dexter explains the motivation behind shooting Tupac Shakur at Quad Studios in 1994. Jimmy Henchmen was managing Salt N Pepa and Brandy at this time. Jimmy was dating Salt, and even got them the "Shoop" beat for free. Remember Tupac was in the Salt N Pepa "Whatta Man" video. Dexter says the beef began because Jimmy owed Tupac money and Jimmy wanted to cut Tupac a check, and Tupac responded. "have that shit ready for me in cash you bitch ass nigga". The industry legend is that Jimmy actually wanted Tupac to pay for protection and security when Tupac was in New York filming, "Above The Rim". Tupac refused and insulted the idea he needed any kind of protection. I would speculate that young and coming into his acting and musical prime, he likely felt no one could touch him and wouldn't understand how drastically Jimmy would react. Jimmy was extorting money from Puff, Andre Harrell, Mobb Deep, almost all the New York rappers and expected Tupac to do the same. There's another theory which I thought deserves some mention is that King Tut wanted Tupac to cut some verses for artists he was affiliated with and when Tupac asked to paid, Tut was pissed because he cut verses for DJ Ron G & MC Breed for free. Then Tut had Jimmy get Dexter to rob Tupac. My problem with that theory is its hard to connect Dexter to Tut without Jimmy, and if Jimmy is involved the other scenarios are more logical. The speculation on the motive continues, however it seems like all three versions could all fit together in combination with Pac already having an issue with Tut, Jimmy wouldn't have needed as much permission for this sort of show of strength. Remember Jimmy Henchman in 1994 was still new on the scene relatively speaking. Dexter decided to shed light on how the altercation played out. Jimmy approached Dexter and a few of Dexter's associates and ordered them to rob 2Pac when he got to the studio that evening. Dexter was paid $2,500 cash. Jimmy told Dexter not to shoot him, but to catch him by surprise and pistol whip him, then kick him around and take his biggest diamond ring, that Haitian Jack had took Tupac to buy in the Diamond District for $35,000. Dexter says that he saw Puff immediately after that conversation with Jimmy and they made eye contact, that Dexter claims confirmed to him that Puff was aware of the plan. He says there's no way Biggie or any of Junior Mafia that were there that night would have known because Puff had went into to the other studio to work with Andre Harrell. Later in that evening he describes the incident in detail. He says the initial head wound was because Dexter's associate, JD, pistol whipped Tupac. Then he says Tupac reached for his gun and they were wrestling for it before Tupac could pull it out completely, it went off and shot him in nuts. Dexter and his guys proceeded to fire four more shots into him because Tupac wouldn't quit fighting back and they took all his jewelry.

After now learning all of this, re listen to "Against All Odds" and you see Tupac brings it all together.



If we recall back, Tupac left the hospital the first chance he could get out the door, this was because of fear that Jimmy was sending someone to finish the job. A few months later Dexter says he was with another well known drug kingpin named, Wolf, and Dexter wanted to set up and rob Puff at the Tunnel. Wolf told Dexter that he had invested a lot of money in Bad Boy, and Puff has a pass. When the original Biggie Smalls sued Bad Boy Records over Notorious BIG going by Biggie Smalls on the "Party And Bullshit" single. Wolf and 2 of his associates paid off the lawsuit and became minority owners of the record label. Dexter says one night Suge Knight and at least 50 bloods caught Puff and Wolf with only a small entourage and after this incident Puff asked one of Jimmy's associates, Zip, to hook him up with protection in California. Dexter says Suge Knight was having an affair with Puff's baby mom, he supposedly had pictures with Misa (Puff's BM) and Justin (Puff's son) sitting on his lap. Puff was furious and was doing everything he could to get those photos. He was so enraged that he put a $10,000 bounty on every Death Row chain. Zip hooked Puff up with the Southside Crips or SSC, in particular, gang leader, Keefe D who was also Orlando Anderson's uncle.

When Tupac started working on Above the Rim he first met up with Haitian Jack, Jimmy and King Tut because he was really just trying to learn more about the character- they gave him gave- they have him cleaned up, got him some jewels, got girls for him, really made him feel like one. However, they did all that and felt like they were owed something. When that didn't go down they wanted to teach him a lesson. On that Monster Kody Pac phone call Tupac even casually said like it was common knowledge that his accused victim was friends with all of those guys. The robbery was supposed to just jack him, humble, and embarrass him, but he resisted and shit got real.

"This was me and Tupac's first conversation. This was October 18th 1995. i had just gotten out of Pelican a month before, and Pac had been out a couple of days. We did not know We were being recorded. My wife pressed record on the answering machine and unbeknown to either of us, caught some bomb ass history. Ya'll enjoy this, and check out Pac and how positive he was. This is Classic shit. It's Shakur thang."
- Monster Kody Sanyika Shakur

Listen:
Dubcnn thread on phone call: http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=311195.0

Linda Bruck is an award winning writer for the New Yorker with long time a connection inside the NYPD. Linda wrote a book that included previously unheard circumstances surrounding the supposed rape incident between Tupac and the accused victim. She details what she calls the pathological hatred police and prosecutors had for Tupac. She explains that Jacques Agnant (Haitian Jack), who Tupac accused of being an informer on his final album, The Don Killuminati (7 Day Theory), was arrested with Tupac in the "date rape" case that sent Tupac to prison. Yet Haitian Jack's case was severed and the indictment against him dismissed. His lawyer was Paul Brenner, who had worked for the Policemen's Benevolent Association and bragged that "the police are friends of mine." Ayanna Jackson, the nineteen-year-old woman who brought the assault charges against Tupac , says that Haitian Jack told her, as Tupac was led away, that he "would hate to see what happened to Mike [Tyson] happen to Tupac."

Bruck reports that Tyson called Tupac from prison and warned him to watch out for Haitian Jack. Linda Bruck does not mention what may have prompted the call but after Tyson's release from prison, five members of his jury said they wanted to change the verdict when they found out that defense evidence had been suppressed that showed Tyson's alleged victim, Desiree Washington, had been willingly going at it hot and heavy with Tyson in a limo and that, contrary to her testimony, Washington had a financial agreement with a civil attorney.

Linda concludes that the parallels are eerie: Two black male celebrities who are hated by the police and are well known by Haitian Jack, two "victims" who sue for civil damages, two prosecutors with obvious agendas beyond determining guilt and innocence. One black celebrity dead and one reeling, at least partly as a result of his false imprisonment.

Tupac believed till his dying moments that the rape charge was a setup by Haitian Jack, Jimmy and Tut as retaliation for him not being willing to sign with Bad Boy as Jimmy had promised Wolf. Jimmy believed he could pressure Tupac after the shooting into a contract where Jimmy would manage Tupac and take a large cut and have him sign to Puff. In later years, Haitian Jack would attempt to extort Jay-Z and 50 Cent while using the NYPD as his own security force, however the damage done from Tupac's "Against All Odds" (see above) was so severe in the streets, no one trusted him any longer. Eventually they moved him to Beverly Hills to try and set up west coast drug dealers, then once he served his purpose the feds left him for dead and he was deported back to Haiti.

I want to end this by summarizing a few things. Christopher "Notorious BIG" Wallace, was not involved in the set up. Tupac knew this and never accused him of the setup. BIG knew all the players involved and after the fact was certainly made aware of what just happened. Tupac found out what happened pretty quickly because Jimmy was not shy about shit talking that night about getting Tupac robbed. Tupac was upset because he felt he and BIG had become friends and felt BIG should have went against Jimmy & Puff. BIG had just released Ready To Die, his family and friends all lived in New York. Going against Jimmy, Tut, Jack, Wolf, Puff was just not an option even if he felt strongly enough to side with Tupac.

20 Years Later..
2Pac's dead, BIG's dead, Orlando Anderson's dead, no ones heard from Keefe D or Haitain Jack in over a decade. Dexter is doing life. Jimmy is doing life, Wolf is dead, Tut is doing life. All these pieces of the puzzle, all these players in this real life game of "American Gangster" all fit together in this deadly combination of  events that would be buried for quite some time. The reason details never came out was not for a lack of knowledge or effort it was a general lack of proof of anything and a general fear of what Jimmy, Jack and Tut were capable of and there resources within law enforcement.
Source: http://thetrilllifestyle.blogspot.ca/2014/06/dexter-isaac-reveals-details-of.html

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Jiwe was there to hold Ars down and they did have some issues. Here is the audio of Ars and Jiwe talking about what happened.

I just barely listened to that this morning.  Kind of like what I said before, it's just so weird that Arsonal is always having Jiwe, Swag and other Bloods always around him and not so much Grapes.  Jiwe even said he brought a bunch more with him who weren't onstage.  Why them and not any of Arsonal's own crew?  Smells fishy on Arsonal's part.

Also it's kind of lame what they were saying... even without saying it, who else would Trick Trick have been asking about?