"King Kunta" like or dislike poll

[Shallow]

Produce. Not compose. Dre's not a composer. Even the original stuff was composed by Storch and/or Elizondo. Storch composed the piano on D.R.E. Dre produced it. Dre as a producer shouldn't get any more credit that a movie producer, but you guys want to give him credit like a movie director, and give him cinematography credits too.

He was once great at what he does, but it was not as hard to recreate those old songs as you think. And it was much harder and more creative to do what Havoc did. I'll give Dre his due for getting to the position he's in, but to say wow what a skill set and what a genius is like saying wow Shaq is such a skilled baller when in reality if you take away 5 inches and 50 pounds he may not even make it into the league. Lock Dre in a room by himself with instruments, records, and turntables and he will come out with nothing. As opposed to someone like Quincy Jones who would walk out with a full album of quality.

I've been trying to learn more about the actual music making process in regards to the producing side of things, and I never have really been able to find much information.

But that said, there is one argument that always seems to hold true in Dre's favor.  Like when those Death Row disses first started to come out and Daz was claiming credit and all these other "ghost producers" at the Row, Dre used to reply smugly that, "If they are supposedly the ones who were really doing it, then let's see them do it without me".   And still, nobody has ever been able to sound as dope without Dre around.

For whatever reason, from the days of Wrecking Cru up until today, if Dre is there shit always comes out hotter.  So obviously, there is something that he does better than anyone else in the room, and without him it can't be done.

I'm not discrediting him completely. He's like Phil Jackson. Jordan and Kobe never won without Phil, but Phil never won without Jordan or Kobe either. Calling Dre a great composer is like giving Phil credit for a great fade-away. You can coach the play and call it to set up a great fade away, but only a hand ful of players can consistently make the shot to win a game.

Your problem with this is Dre was winning 'chips with Eazy E and 50 Cent on the mic. Dr. Dre is as talented a producer as there is. All these people claiming, I found this sample for Dre, I played this string for Dre, ain't none of them make a beat like Dre. Some of the most celebrated people in music are the conductors, and conductors don't play the music, they can play the music, but they don't play the music on shows. Dre does play live drums, and he had live drums in his production since NWA. He tells the musicians he works with the sound he wants when he's making the beat, and they play it for him. If you are trying to give credit to everyone else for Dr. Dre's success, then why ain't Scott Storch, Daz, DJ Yella, and Mel Man have more hits and great beats compared to Dr. Dre. For all we know, Dr. Dre may only be a great mixer, but that mixing is what makes the songs song better than anyone else out there. So you can try to talk about Dre all you want, the dude has the best ear for music in hip-hop, and will go down as the number 1 producer in hip-hop history.

I don't disagree with anything you said above, and never argued against any of it.

He has a great ear for hit rap songs and how to go about making them. I've historically said he makes his rapper rap better and absolutely believe that Doggfather ends up as good or better than Doggiestyle with Dre at the helm.

But none of that changes my claim; Great music producer and great music composer are two different things. To build on your conductor analogy; I'm not huge fan of classical to know who the great conductors of all time are, but I know for a fact that none of the current ones are anywhere near as famous or as revered as the composers they conduct. None of them get mentioned alongside Mozart and Beethoven. The guys that write the music and develop it into a sound get the most reverence.

Of course even if Dre had originally conceived all that music, I still don't think enough of it to revere him as much as you guys do. Because I don't think enough of the originals. I like I wanna Do something Freaky To You, and I like Woman to Woman, but I don't say "oh my God, what genius music", and I especially don't loop a few seconds of those melodies over and over again.

If I want to be inspired musically I'll throw on Hendrix, or early Johnny Otis Show, some Dire Straits, Herbie Hancock, or Miles Davis. Music that features very top of the line musicians, and more than a handful of notes. I can never sit and listen to bare instrumentals of rap songs for hours on end. Where as I can play the Jungleland Sax solo by Clarence Clemons 15 times in a row and not get sick of it. To be clear, I can't listen to instrumentals of the vast majority of Rock songs either.

For rock and hip hop the vocals and lyrics are more important than the backing track, for the most part. There are exceptions like Jerry Lee Lewis where the piano is probably more important than the singing, and Hendrix where the guitar is definitely more important than the singing.

Springsteen is my favorite by far and there is no way I can listen to just the backing tracks of his songs, thus I don't list Bruce as a "musical" genius, but rather a "song writing and producing" genius. The music is solid on its own, but combined with the lyrics and the vocal melody is what makes it really special. I'd say the same for Prince or Stevie Wonder.

And Dre isn't supposed to be all that, I know. We are gauging his production skills, but too many rap fans confuse that with his composing skills. As a producer I think Dre would make the most out of the worst sample, but that doesn't mean I'll listen to Cal Love and say "wow, only Dre could have thought to have the horns come in like that with the piano". Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.

[Sccit]

Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.

and this is where ur argument loses all credibility....because kanye and dre are in two completely different tiers as far as ear for music goes...if dre was kobe bryant, kanye west would be jordan clarkson..... or in your terms, if dre was peyton manning, kanye would be russell wilson. and yes, ONLY dre coulda made california love what it was..a masterpiece. but ur sitting here comparing him to kanye west, so i'll just leave it at that and let you ramble on with your paragraphs about absolutely nothin.

[Shallow]

Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.

and this is where ur argument loses all credibility....because kanye and dre are in two completely different tiers as far as ear for music goes...if dre was kobe bryant, kanye west would be jordan clarkson..... or in your terms, if dre was peyton manning, kanye would be russell wilson. and yes, ONLY dre coulda made california love what it was..a masterpiece. but ur sitting here comparing him to kanye west, so i'll just leave it at that and let you ramble on with your paragraphs about absolutely nothin.

Our opinions of Kanye are exactly the same. We can agree on that. To call California Love a masterpiece to me is like calling the film the video is based on a Masterpiece. No Mad Max film is a masterpiece and neither is Cali Love. Its a banger, but no way could I think of it as a masterpiece. NY State of Mind is a masterpiece. Dear Mama. Juice (Know The Ledge). To put a Dre track in there; Straight Outta Compton (the song) is a masterpiece.

I'd list songs from other genres but I don't think you listen to any music that isn't a heavy rap beat about killing people and having sex with impressionable young women. I'm going out on a limb here with an assumption, but you probably think Scarface and Casino are greater films than Casablanca and Citizen Kane.

[Sccit]

Dre did then what Kanye is doing now, and I don't rate Kanye's musical skills, but I certainly respect Kanye's ear for a hit.

and this is where ur argument loses all credibility....because kanye and dre are in two completely different tiers as far as ear for music goes...if dre was kobe bryant, kanye west would be jordan clarkson..... or in your terms, if dre was peyton manning, kanye would be russell wilson. and yes, ONLY dre coulda made california love what it was..a masterpiece. but ur sitting here comparing him to kanye west, so i'll just leave it at that and let you ramble on with your paragraphs about absolutely nothin.

Our opinions of Kanye are exactly the same. We can agree on that. To call California Love a masterpiece to me is like calling the film the video is based on a Masterpiece. No Mad Max film is a masterpiece and neither is Cali Love. Its a banger, but no way could I think of it as a masterpiece. NY State of Mind is a masterpiece. Dear Mama. Juice (Know The Ledge). To put a Dre track in there; Straight Outta Compton (the song) is a masterpiece.

I'd list songs from other genres but I don't think you listen to any music that isn't a heavy rap beat about killing people and having sex with impressionable young women. I'm going out on a limb here with an assumption, but you probably think Scarface and Casino are greater films than Casablanca and Citizen Kane.

cali love is as good or better than any of those songs......but go ahead and think what u like. because like track 8 off violence of tha lambz said, opinions are like assholes, everybody got um.



and ur assumptions explain to me why u think the way u do....because 1.)i grew up on all different types of music and 2.)i dont believe that....LOL

[Shallow]

I grew up on Greek Folk Music. I got into Gangsta Rap because I was a teenager with a lot of black friends and I thought it was cool to be a thug. I'm 32 years old now. I think thugs are stupid and I mainly listen to Greeks folk music and a Black American Folk music. And a lot of Springsteen. Not much else. But I like the new Kendrick for some reason.

[M Dogg™]

I grew up on Greek Folk Music. I got into Gangsta Rap because I was a teenager with a lot of black friends and I thought it was cool to be a thug. I'm 32 years old now. I think thugs are stupid and I mainly listen to Greeks folk music and a Black American Folk music. And a lot of Springsteen. Not much else. But I like the new Kendrick for some reason.

I know why I really like this album, why more than any album in the last 10 years. The music sounds well thought out and intentional. I didn't hear a hip-hop album when I first listened to this, and that threw me off at first. It's funky, but not like sampled old school Warren G funk that sampled old 70's funk and soul and twist it. Instead it was real instruments, and it was original works of music that was made to sound like hip-hop. I was hearing an interview, and Kendrick said he had the same dudes in the studio everyday, Terrance Martin, all them producers, making tracks and making music. He said he had George Clinton there almost everyday just for conversation... LOL. Like George Clinton was featured on one track, but dude was there everyday just for someone for Kendrick to talk to and offer advice. LOL... (Why I think he's Love Dragon)

But dude was not putting together a hip-hop record, dude was putting together real, tangible music.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

I know why I really like this album, why more than any album in the last 10 years. The music sounds well thought out and intentional. I didn't hear a hip-hop album when I first listened to this, and that threw me off at first. It's funky, but not like sampled old school Warren G funk that sampled old 70's funk and soul and twist it. Instead it was real instruments, and it was original works of music that was made to sound like hip-hop. I was hearing an interview, and Kendrick said he had the same dudes in the studio everyday, Terrance Martin, all them producers, making tracks and making music. He said he had George Clinton there almost everyday just for conversation... LOL. Like George Clinton was featured on one track, but dude was there everyday just for someone for Kendrick to talk to and offer advice. LOL... (Why I think he's Love Dragon)

But dude was not putting together a hip-hop record, dude was putting together real, tangible music.

^^Best reasoning I've seen so far for giving Kendrick another chance

[ruthless95rip]

Sounds good.   I didn't see the poll.    Or is it just a comment poll?