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Rams gotta be crazy if they dont trade for Kaepernick
M Dogg™:
Here is where I disagree. Smith was a bust before Hardbaugh came to SF. Under Hardbaugh Smith was looking like a new QB. He was well liked in the locker room, but the talent never translated. Under Hardbaugh, he brought that out of him, and then he was able to move to KC. Smith always had the talent, but he needed a coach like Hardbaugh to bring it out of him. Kaep had Hardbaugh to bring it out, but the problem was that management compromised Hardbaugh in his last year. Kaep was not a finished product, and by taking Hardbaugh from him as he was entering his prime, management SCREWED Kaep.
With Jackson, I truly think Jackson can turn them around. When Jackson came to Oakland, you could have said the same exact thing... "you forgot to mention, it's Oakland." But in Oakland, Jackson took a journeyman QB in Jason Campbell, and had people wondering if he was the next coming of Jim Plunkett. Afterall, Campbell had the talent, but never had the right coaching. But Jackson as OC, then HC got the most out of him.
RGIII had one great rookie year in Washington, but injures have kept him down. The talent is undeniable, but once Mike Shanahan figured RGIII was washed up after his injury, RGIII's days in Washington were over. They even hired Jay Gruden, who everyone thought was a QB Guru coach, to fix RGIII. But at the end Gruden was not nearly the QB coach that his brother was and they had to go a more conventional route with Cousins. But RGIII needed a place that he knew would work with his special gifts. Not all NFL coaches know how to work with an RGIII, or a Kaep. RGIII is risking going to a bad team in order to work with Hue, and I think that's the smartest move in his career. If Hue can't "fix" him, then I don't think anyone can. Fisher sure as hell can't.
As for the rookies coming in, Goff or Wentz, I think the Rams are going Goff but I DON'T think Goff is worth a first overall pick. In fact, no QB in this draft is to me. But Goff is a first round QB, and if the Rams had a top 5 pick then they should pick him up. The problem isn't drafting Goff, the problem I have is what they gave up to get him. Because to me, he's the next Teddy Bridgewater. Both are going to be great QB's in the NFL, but neither has the true arm strength to reach superstar QB status. But both are franchise QB's who can lead their teams to many playoff appearances and with the right defense, maybe a Super Bowl win. Both are very accurate and wouldn't throw a lot of INT's once they settle into the NFL (Bridgewater only threw 9 INT's in 16 starts this year). But at the same time, you may not see a whole lot of TD's (Teddy also only threw 14 TD's this year). So you will get lots carefully placed balls in the arms of a WR, but that down the field bomb will not be there. With all of that said, I think Goff can develop to a lead that will command the locker room more-so than RGIII and Kaep, and Goff will have the better career going into his prime years. So he's the QB you want, but trading all of that for him wasn't really necessary UNLESS you really think you can't find a franchise QB anywhere else. And actually, in that case, the Rams maybe right.
Remedy360:
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on April 19, 2016, 08:15:19 PM ---Here is where I disagree. Smith was a bust before Hardbaugh came to SF. Under Hardbaugh Smith was looking like a new QB. He was well liked in the locker room, but the talent never translated. Under Hardbaugh, he brought that out of him, and then he was able to move to KC. Smith always had the talent, but he needed a coach like Hardbaugh to bring it out of him. Kaep had Hardbaugh to bring it out, but the problem was that management compromised Hardbaugh in his last year. Kaep was not a finished product, and by taking Hardbaugh from him as he was entering his prime, management SCREWED Kaep.
With Jackson, I truly think Jackson can turn them around. When Jackson came to Oakland, you could have said the same exact thing... "you forgot to mention, it's Oakland." But in Oakland, Jackson took a journeyman QB in Jason Campbell, and had people wondering if he was the next coming of Jim Plunkett. Afterall, Campbell had the talent, but never had the right coaching. But Jackson as OC, then HC got the most out of him.
RGIII had one great rookie year in Washington, but injures have kept him down. The talent is undeniable, but once Mike Shanahan figured RGIII was washed up after his injury, RGIII's days in Washington were over. They even hired Jay Gruden, who everyone thought was a QB Guru coach, to fix RGIII. But at the end Gruden was not nearly the QB coach that his brother was and they had to go a more conventional route with Cousins. But RGIII needed a place that he knew would work with his special gifts. Not all NFL coaches know how to work with an RGIII, or a Kaep. RGIII is risking going to a bad team in order to work with Hue, and I think that's the smartest move in his career. If Hue can't "fix" him, then I don't think anyone can. Fisher sure as hell can't.
--- End quote ---
There's no doubt that Harbaugh helped Smith big time. But the fact is, that team was loaded with talent already, good players on offense and a defense as good as any in the league. My point is that Smith (and Kap) were beneficiaries of all the talent around them in SF. Is the coach important? No doubt, but the difference in talent as far as a team like SF a few years ago vs Cleveland now is through the roof. You're right that Jackson had Campbell looking pretty good, but it's not like he was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of his career. Campbell was always a decent QB, but it's not like he was about to become the next big thing. Our argument comes down to coach vs talent on the team. Jackson may be a great fit for RGIII, but how much good is that going to do if the guy doesn't have any help around him? The Rams beat up on teams like the Seahawks and the Cardinals in the NFC West last year with garbage at the QB position. If I was someone like RGIII it would just seem to make more sense to go to a team that is a QB away from being a contender vs a walking shitshow like Cleveland.
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: Remedy360 on April 19, 2016, 11:29:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg™ on April 19, 2016, 08:15:19 PM ---Here is where I disagree. Smith was a bust before Hardbaugh came to SF. Under Hardbaugh Smith was looking like a new QB. He was well liked in the locker room, but the talent never translated. Under Hardbaugh, he brought that out of him, and then he was able to move to KC. Smith always had the talent, but he needed a coach like Hardbaugh to bring it out of him. Kaep had Hardbaugh to bring it out, but the problem was that management compromised Hardbaugh in his last year. Kaep was not a finished product, and by taking Hardbaugh from him as he was entering his prime, management SCREWED Kaep.
With Jackson, I truly think Jackson can turn them around. When Jackson came to Oakland, you could have said the same exact thing... "you forgot to mention, it's Oakland." But in Oakland, Jackson took a journeyman QB in Jason Campbell, and had people wondering if he was the next coming of Jim Plunkett. Afterall, Campbell had the talent, but never had the right coaching. But Jackson as OC, then HC got the most out of him.
RGIII had one great rookie year in Washington, but injures have kept him down. The talent is undeniable, but once Mike Shanahan figured RGIII was washed up after his injury, RGIII's days in Washington were over. They even hired Jay Gruden, who everyone thought was a QB Guru coach, to fix RGIII. But at the end Gruden was not nearly the QB coach that his brother was and they had to go a more conventional route with Cousins. But RGIII needed a place that he knew would work with his special gifts. Not all NFL coaches know how to work with an RGIII, or a Kaep. RGIII is risking going to a bad team in order to work with Hue, and I think that's the smartest move in his career. If Hue can't "fix" him, then I don't think anyone can. Fisher sure as hell can't.
--- End quote ---
There's no doubt that Harbaugh helped Smith big time. But the fact is, that team was loaded with talent already, good players on offense and a defense as good as any in the league. My point is that Smith (and Kap) were beneficiaries of all the talent around them in SF. Is the coach important? No doubt, but the difference in talent as far as a team like SF a few years ago vs Cleveland now is through the roof. You're right that Jackson had Campbell looking pretty good, but it's not like he was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of his career. Campbell was always a decent QB, but it's not like he was about to become the next big thing. Our argument comes down to coach vs talent on the team. Jackson may be a great fit for RGIII, but how much good is that going to do if the guy doesn't have any help around him? The Rams beat up on teams like the Seahawks and the Cardinals in the NFC West last year with garbage at the QB position. If I was someone like RGIII it would just seem to make more sense to go to a team that is a QB away from being a contender vs a walking shitshow like Cleveland.
--- End quote ---
I agree with the talent piece. You can't win without talent. But Washington had talent and RGIII still struggled. There are different needs for certain QB's, and RGIII and Kaep both need that coach who believes in them and can help mold them. Even with talent, Kaep and RGIII have shown that the coach is very important. Both lack the leadership quality right now to lead an offense. This is important, as when you are lacking a true OC and you are lacking an offensive coach, the QB becomes the leader. This bold well for a Manning, or a Brady (Belichick always being a DC). But say you're a Drew Brees and you just left a bad situation in San Diego; going to a place like New Orleans where a QB Guru like Sean Payton is waiting is very important. Then eventually the QB develops as a leader and when Payton was suspended Brees was able to pick up that leadership role because he was developed. What RGIII needs is that Payton like coach, and Jackson is there. The talent may not be there now, but if Cleveland can invest in an OL, RGIII and Jackson can turn it around. Jackson will have RGIII looking much better, and even if RGIII leaves Cleveland, he'll leave Cleveland knowing what he needs and a much better QB.
Space RockStar SkyStalker Machine:
Yeah San Fran had talent. After there starts left, receivers were dropping balls like no tommorow ect. But the real threat is Elway. He has made it clear he wanted kaep. There is no secret bout that. Denver has talent coming off a superbowl win. But I want to see kaep claim LA run that town for all its worth. Elway is clearly one of the best there is
M Dogg™:
As I said, it's better to go with a rookie QB than Kaep or RGIII. Kaep and RGIII need rehabilitation. Or it's better to trade for Kaep, fire Fisher and hire a QB friendly coach. A QB friendly coach could turn it all around, and management needs to beef up the line.
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