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Quote from: dj coma on March 23, 2017, 07:32:44 PMQuote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:15:56 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
Quote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:15:56 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.
Quote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.
Quote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.
Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.
Quote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:15:56 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.
Quote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:38:18 PMQuote from: dj coma on March 23, 2017, 07:32:44 PMQuote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:15:56 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.They most likely just had inside info. Remember Pac's last interview with VIBE... he even talks about Cube making the song Bow Down, which didn't come out until August 28th, but I'm pretty sure that VIBE interview was definitely done before that.
Quote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:43:33 PMQuote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:15:56 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
Quote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 09:06:53 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:43:33 PMQuote from: Sccit on March 23, 2017, 07:15:56 PMQuote from: bouli77 on March 23, 2017, 07:09:18 PMQuote from: eyeball on March 23, 2017, 04:39:35 PMPac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end. sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row. Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case. That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.The "revenge" wouldn't have gone back that far though because there was nothing to "avenge" until August 96.
u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
Quoteu got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.I don't have any inside information, it's just common sense. Since the album was out as early as February, it's n and chronologically it doesn't really add up. 1) I Ain't Mad At Cha came out before Toss It Up was made.2) Pac was dead before Toss It Up was released.3) Toss It Up and No Diggity were released within the same week in late september.4) Stay With Me came out as a single in early 97. A little late for revenge don't you think ?Now, the Backstreet album was released on September 9, that means, knowing you have to submit an album to the record company at the very least a month and a half before the actual release date, that at best Don't Leave Me was recorded, mixed and mastered in late July 96. They hadn't even shot the video for Toss It Up, and most likely not even recorded it. So Blackstreet anticipated Pac to jack their song and went out of their way to rush a song with the same sample, and made a late minuted inclusion on their album just in case ? Doesn't make sense to me.Also, how is using the same sample is revenge exactly ? How is it jacking ? It's neither. If Blackstreet had beat Pac to the punch by releasing a similar song, with a similar concept and similar video, that is revenge and jacking cause it makes the later artist look bad. But in that case, not really. In that case, did Wreck N Effects release Rump Shaker to piss off N2Deep ? Both songs came out around summer 92.
not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.
lamb gets it.The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases. Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response. These are the facts, even if you can't see them.
Quote from: Sccit on March 24, 2017, 02:37:11 AMnot saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.that's precisely what I'm NOT doing. i'm saying that everything u been saying about this situation is pure hypotheticals. at the end of the day, the only thing we DO know, is that Toss It Up & No Diggity have similarities and that Don't Leave Me & I Ain't Mad At Cha interpolate the same song. U and eyeball are the ones making claims about "beat jacking" elaborating from a few tangible elements. as you said there's no evidence either way. only a few elements.it's far fetched and exaggerated to use the word "jack" for the use of a same song that do not belong to Pac. that's it.Quote from: eyeball on March 24, 2017, 03:25:23 AMlamb gets it.The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases. Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response. These are the facts, even if you can't see them. that's a nice theory but please don't call facts hypotheticals. you use facts to make assumptions and deductions, that's fine, we all do, but the word fact is one of the most misused term nowadays. . I understand your point better now though, fair enough, and it does make sense although I still don't think we can say Dre did it and that they "jacked" Pac's beat.
At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.