BIG STY DISSES TUPAC AND BIGGIE AND THE REST OF THE RAP INDY.

[B.O.X.]

and why cry about him dissing dead folks "cats say dead like elvis" bitch ass all the time,talk shit about libarace gay ass all the time, shit they ain't hear to defend they self either,cuzz just spoke how he felt,if he is doing it for pub,thats him,if some of the cats and people down with big and pac got problems with it,they will address it,as far as i'm concerned great pr cuzz,life is a hustle take advantage of that shit yell

[Don Breezio]

yo please state this is just your opinion luke,cuzz this bullshit you put up here is terrible,

swollen members and atomosphere hahahahahahahahahahahahaah get the fucc outta here with that garbage,and john forte are you fucc'n serious cuzz,all eyes on me wacc? i can see if you said that pac sampled more old hit records then puffy on that album,but calling it wacc you lost yo mind on that one,warren g dj quik and dr dre!!!!!!!!! only if you are saying complete artist because of there production,but as rappers or mc's hell nah cuzz,you need to be slapped up fo real,royce the 5'9!!!!! you got to be joking what has he done in his career??? what epic joints have he made,what impact? and method man!!!! haha,yeah can't deny that he's tight,but face the facts his albums are garbage cuzz,imortal is nice,but as of now he is nowhere better then pac,nas is up there he is a better mc and writer,but pac is the better artist,mos and talib haven't done enough even they wouldn't put they self ahead of pac,there smarter then that haha,you are right about clef having talent and those songs you named did bang,but better then pac,you need to be slapped again haha,i think that period pussy is getting to you homie,you need to ease up on that,it's affecting yo brain cells

alright i will address every single one of those:

swollen members have just as much talent and just as good of production, just a different style

atmosphere (to me) has better replay value than pac does

john forte has put out some seriously dope ass tracks that people sleep on...the whole poly sci album was off the hook and the I John album was damn good too

all eyes on me is played out as fuck, it has no replay value anymore, im tired of how do u want it, california love, ambitionz az a ridah, etc...im even getting sick of skandalouz even though it was my fav. song from the album.

warren g=regulators...one of the best westcoast albums ever to drop. nuff said

dj quik=guy has more talent than pac in one finger. and i think most people will agree with me on that

dr. dre=perfect flow,lyrics about the same as pac, never brings a wack beat, and spends 10 times the amount of time on an album and makes the album perfect

royce da 5'9'...just because he hasnt "done anything" in his career doesnt mean anything...im talking about pure talent, the guy is more talented than probably anybody else i've listed with the exception of immortal technique

method man again has more talent than pac, biggie, any other member of wu-tang, or almost anyone else on this list, yes he brings some bullshit but even those songs the biggest underground heads will bump

immortal technique...most talented mf on this list, has the best beats, best flow, best lyrics. guy can't be beat and never will be beat, you can't top RAW hip hop..even pac wasnt as raw as tech

homie...explain this...if nas is a better emcee and writer...how is pac a better artist? because if nas is better than pac in those then you've already answered my reason for nas being better

mos def is one of the smartest cats out today, he should cut the racist tip just a bit because none of us have ever enslaved his ass but take that away and he'd crush pac or big same goes for talib kweli

i've already answered myself with clef...nobody can bring as good of a feeling in music than clef. the guy puts nothing into his music but heart.

and theres nothing wrong with period pussy...if its getting to anyones braincells its the watcher...he said he likes to eat it? sick bastard.  

[On The Edge of Insanity]

alright i will address every single one of those:

swollen members have just as much talent and just as good of production, just a different style
they dope, but i'd still take Pac over them

atmosphere (to me) has better replay value than pac does
I really just can't get into these guys, no matter how many people tell me they are dope, like Defari said, "I can't be digging all this weird shit that ain't hiphop

john forte has put out some seriously dope ass tracks that people sleep on...the whole poly sci album was off the hook and the I John album was damn good too
comon, the album he sung on was better than his rap album, so how does that make him a better hiphop artist than Pac?

all eyes on me is played out as fuck, it has no replay value anymore, im tired of how do u want it, california love, ambitionz az a ridah, etc...im even getting sick of skandalouz even though it was my fav. song from the album.
I agree with you on this, I really hate All Eyez On Me. But you can't deny that Me Against The World and the Makaveli album are classics

warren g=regulators...one of the best westcoast albums ever to drop. nuff said
yeah it is, but that's mainly due to the production, Warren ain't got shit on Pac mc wise and since Regulate he hasn't really dropped anything majorly dope album wise

dj quik=guy has more talent than pac in one finger. and i think most people will agree with me on that
musically Quik has more talent obviously, but on the mic he ain't all that, and there isn't enough variation in his subject matter


dr. dre=perfect flow,lyrics about the same as pac, never brings a wack beat, and spends 10 times the amount of time on an album and makes the album perfect
Dre is lazy, straight up. I don't like the way Pac went about recording, but I mean it takes Dre soo long to do anything. He doesn't write his own lyrics, and I could name quite a few wack Dre beats

royce da 5'9'...just because he hasnt "done anything" in his career doesnt mean anything...im talking about pure talent, the guy is more talented than probably anybody else i've listed with the exception of immortal technique
he's dope, but his current recorded output doesn't really show this, maybe three or four albums down the line, but he stills need to develop as an artist

method man again has more talent than pac, biggie, any other member of wu-tang, or almost anyone else on this list, yes he brings some bullshit but even those songs the biggest underground heads will bump
considering his talent Meth hasn't done enough with his career thanks to an average second album. But I'd even take Ghostface or GZA above Meth within the Wu so I can't see you being able to claim him the GOAT

immortal technique...most talented mf on this list, has the best beats, best flow, best lyrics. guy can't be beat and never will be beat, you can't top RAW hip hop..even pac wasnt as raw as tech
um, Pac wasn't actually raw at all, so it wouldn't be hard for IT to be rawer than him. He's really dope, and I can see what you are saying, so this is probably the first one I agree with you on

homie...explain this...if nas is a better emcee and writer...how is pac a better artist? because if nas is better than pac in those then you've already answered my reason for nas being better
yeah, dude fucked up a bit there, if you go on classic and near classic albums I think Nas easily beats Pac, so there is another we agree on

mos def is one of the smartest cats out today, he should cut the racist tip just a bit because none of us have ever enslaved his ass but take that away and he'd crush pac or big same goes for talib kweli
Mos ain't racist at all really he's just pro-black,he's really dope but since Black On Both Sides he hasn't really been the same, he seems to be concentrating more on acting. I may be a little biased but I would take Kweli above Pac anyday, the complexity and wit of his rhyming is far more advanced and in my opinion poetic than anything Pac ever recorded

i've already answered myself with clef...nobody can bring as good of a feeling in music than clef. the guy puts nothing into his music but heart.
I'm a big Wyclef fan, but on a hiphop level you have to realise that his rhyming skills are far below Pac. Musically he is amazing because of all his influences but like I said this is discussing pure hiphop skills.

I'm not even a Pac fan really but some of your suggestions were a little far fetched. I would put Biggie just behind Pac because Life After Death was very average, and I think that would have been the way the rest of his career would have gone. I agreed with you on some of them and I would have to add that I would put these artists above Pac and BIG as well:

Rakim
Big L
Big Daddy Kane
Krs One

[chronic01]

k swollen members rap about how they rap they're fuckin retarded
wyclef maybe as an all around artist is better but he doesnt have the flow to match at all
and dre doesnt write his own fuckin lyrics hes just got a dope voice therefore he raps
nas may be more lyrical but he never had the passion that pac had. pac was never considered the best in his lyrics ever he just knew how to make the song be heard thats all

[M Dogg™]

Pac wasn't shit UNTIL he died. It's the truth. He wasn't the King of the Coast. He was still behind Cube(with Westside Connect), Snoop, Dre and E-40. Tupac wasn't running nothing. Like I said before people were throwing up dubs not because of Pac, but because of WSC. Ask Snoopy. Really, 80% of Pacs fans(mainly the people who call him the GOAT) came AFTER he died. When I ask a random Pac fan on the street to name 5 songs by Pac that weren't on Deathrow, I never get a straight answer. Pac's music was overrated. While he had good music and a lot of hits, his hype came from dying. As did Big's. But, at least in Big's case he was running the East at the time that he died. His hype is a little more justified.

Hold up, do you even remember shit before 1996. Your too young to have a straight view outside of a Junior High student. I remember when I was in Jr. High, everyone was about Skee-Lo... lol. Can't trust your Jr. High memory. I remember back in 1996, everyone was on 'Pac's dick. 'Pac coming out of jail was just like Tyson coming out of jail, everyone was hyped. He release California Love, and everyone was playing that shit out. Before 1996, Me Against the World was banging everywhere. So Many Tears was in everyone's system, Fuck the World was that shit you heard on the streets, and you couldn't turn on Power or the Beat without hearing Dear Mama. I Get Around was also bumping back in the day. Keep Your Head up video was always on MTV as much as Snoop and Dre. 'Pac was the leader of the fuckin' westcoast. You had to ask people, on the real I remember that shit like it was yesterday. I remember people calling him the GOAT. I was one of those that was like, He ain't the GOAT because he hadn't dropped 3 classics like Rakim, or KRS-One. But then he died and Makaveli dropped. He wasn't the GOAT because he died, he was the GOAT because Makaveli was one of the single great set of 12 songs ever release in Hip-Hop history. And yeah in 1995, Snoop and them ran the west, but 'Pac wasn't far behind. And in 1996, 'Pac was by far on top. I remember people talking about 'Pac should do a song with WSCG, 'cause that's what people wanted to see. Oh, and people didn't throw up Dubs 'cause of 'Pac or Cube, they threw up dubs 'cause people back then had westcoast pride, and we were proud to rep or shit. I remember we never gave a flying fuck who started it, we were supporting all westcoast artist.

[NobodyButMe]

seriously can you blame him? i mean yes i agree what he said was disrespectful...but it makes sense. i am so tired (and im sure some will agree) of always hearing "pac is the greatest" or "biggies the greatest"...man no the fuck they werent.

Let me sum up the thoughts of the collective board when I say "Yes the fuck they were"

word.

[SGV]

Hold up, do you even remember shit before 1996. Your too young to have a straight view outside of a Junior High student. I remember when I was in Jr. High, everyone was about Skee-Lo... lol. Can't trust your Jr. High memory. I remember back in 1996, everyone was on 'Pac's dick. 'Pac coming out of jail was just like Tyson coming out of jail, everyone was hyped. He release California Love, and everyone was playing that shit out.

LOL @ using the age. Dogg I was in Jr. High, true, but my brother and all my homies were in High School. They're who were putting me on. As for Pac being like Tyson. LOL. That is true, there was hype for Pac in 96, but it wasn't amazing. I've seen the same hype for ODB and Slick Rick.

Before 1996, Me Against the World was banging everywhere. So Many Tears was in everyone's system, Fuck the World was that shit you heard on the streets, and you couldn't turn on Power or the Beat without hearing Dear Mama. I Get Around was also bumping back in the day. Keep Your Head up video was always on MTV as much as Snoop and Dre. 'Pac was the leader of the fuckin' westcoast.

I guess the I.E. was different. Out here nobody was bumping that shit. Btw, rotation on MTV doesn't make you a leader of a place. Snoop, Dre, Short, 40, Cube they were the leaders because they had opened doors for areas and put so many people on. What did Pac do? Put on Thug Life and an East Coast crew. He wasn't leading shit.

You had to ask people, on the real I remember that shit like it was yesterday. I remember people calling him the GOAT. I was one of those that was like, He ain't the GOAT because he hadn't dropped 3 classics like Rakim, or KRS-One. But then he died and Makaveli dropped. He wasn't the GOAT because he died, he was the GOAT because Makaveli was one of the single great set of 12 songs ever release in Hip-Hop history.

Pac isn't the GOAT because he never did what KRS or Cube did. Everything Pac did was done by both of them. From Street shit to political aware lyrics, Cube and KRS did that.

And yeah in 1995, Snoop and them ran the west, but 'Pac wasn't far behind. And in 1996, 'Pac was by far on top. I remember people talking about 'Pac should do a song with WSCG, 'cause that's what people wanted to see.

Plenty of people wanted others to collab with the WSC, not just Pac.

Oh, and people didn't throw up Dubs 'cause of 'Pac or Cube, they threw up dubs 'cause people back then had westcoast pride, and we were proud to rep or shit. I remember we never gave a flying fuck who started it, we were supporting all westcoast artist.

It was about West Coast pride, but he had that pride so high? Cube and them. Like I said, ask Snoopy who had his Eastsidin' ass throwing up West side?

[NobodyButMe]

Pac wasn't shit UNTIL he died. It's the truth. He wasn't the King of the Coast. He was still behind Cube(with Westside Connect), Snoop, Dre and E-40. Tupac wasn't running nothing. Like I said before people were throwing up dubs not because of Pac, but because of WSC. Ask Snoopy. Really, 80% of Pacs fans(mainly the people who call him the GOAT) came AFTER he died. When I ask a random Pac fan on the street to name 5 songs by Pac that weren't on Deathrow, I never get a straight answer. Pac's music was overrated. While he had good music and a lot of hits, his hype came from dying. As did Big's. But, at least in Big's case he was running the East at the time that he died. His hype is a little more justified.

probably one of the stupidest things i have ever heard. what kinda bullshit is this? that's why you ask ANYBODY on this board if they remember where they were when they heard pac died and most people on here will tell you that they cried. pac wasn't shit UNTIL he died? please. he brought rap to the masses - whites blacks latinos asians - everybody could feel that dude. ain't no one feel cube except people from the westcoast. just because you probably got something against pac doesn't mean that he wasn't the single most influencial artist in the history of rap. don't believe me? ask any senior citizen the first person that comes to mind when you say "rap music". people were scared of pac when he was alive - all those fuckin people he dissed didn't say one goddam word back to him - except maybe mobb deep and chino xl - but the rest of the world respected that man and that's why you only hear of disses YEARS after he's gone. and tell me, how the fuck you gonna say biggie was better after ONE FUCKIN ALBUM? he didn't get a chance to prove himself. pac proved himself by remaining the one that people STILL pay to see, STILL read books about him, and STILL buy his music (no matter how much we know the remixes are gonna suck we still buy them). that dude sold 6 million copies of 'all eyez on me' before he died and you're tellin me he wasn't shit before he died? 6 million rap records was HUGE back in 96, unlike today where 6 mill is what retards like 50 cent and ja rule get in their sleep. the times have changed homie, and it's easier to make a huge impact on the pop world when you're a rapper nowadays than it was in 96. today, rappers are the pop world. back in 96, rap records were being smashed in the streets by politicians.

and just because you 'ask a random fan on the street' to name 5 songs that pac did other than on deathrow, doesn't mean SHIT. i been a pac fan for years and could care less about what fuckin record label he makes music under. i could tell you 5 songs offa deathrow after much thought, by why the fuck does that matter? what the hell does that have to do with his music? tellin me that you're only a true fan if you can name songs he did on a particular label....come on. you're paying too much attention to shit that doesn't matter.

better look up your history before you come in here runnin your mouth about 'pac only matterin after he's gone....

[SGV]

LOL @ someone crying over Pac. I didn't know one person that cried over due. Hip Hop was already brought to the masses man. In 1993 there was a little group called Wu Tang Clan. I never knew white people liked Hip Hop until I Wu Tang came out. Dre and Snoop also were there bringing Hip Hop to the masses. Man, when my mom or pops or various family members think about Hip Hop, they think of Snoop. So there goes your logic. Chino murdered Pac. Mobb got on Pac. But, why didn't Pac respond to Kill Kill or 51.50? That's because HE was scared. And NOBODY was scared of Pac. You know who they were scared of? Suge. C'mon man. How can you be that gullible? LOL @ anyone fearing Pac. Suge told Pac to diss all those people. Pac was never like that UNTIL Suge came in and turned him into his own personal puppet.

Sales don't matter none. I laugh at anyone bringing up sales.

And what matters about a majority of people not being able to name Pac songs pre-Deathrow? It proves that his music wasn't that important to his "fans" since they came after his death.

[NobodyButMe]

^^ start a thread "where were you when pac died" and i guarantee a load of people that'll say they cried. there have been a hundred topics started like that in the past and there is always someone that says they cried.

it's obvious that we got different opinions on pac, and maybe you roasted me on this topic, mostly because neither of us are going to change our minds on the subject. we can sit here and argue for hours about what happened and what supposedly happened but the fact remains that we both have drastically different opinions on pac and whole situation. you can say that i'm not a real fan cuz i don't give a fuck what record label he was on at any point in his life, but i listen to pac and respect him more than any musician i've ever heard - i been listenin to him for almost 15 years and hardly think that his record label makes a difference.

[B.O.X.]

yo please state this is just your opinion luke,cuzz this bullshit you put up here is terrible,

swollen members and atomosphere hahahahahahahahahahahahaah get the fucc outta here with that garbage,and john forte are you fucc'n serious cuzz,all eyes on me wacc? i can see if you said that pac sampled more old hit records then puffy on that album,but calling it wacc you lost yo mind on that one,warren g dj quik and dr dre!!!!!!!!! only if you are saying complete artist because of there production,but as rappers or mc's hell nah cuzz,you need to be slapped up fo real,royce the 5'9!!!!! you got to be joking what has he done in his career??? what epic joints have he made,what impact? and method man!!!! haha,yeah can't deny that he's tight,but face the facts his albums are garbage cuzz,imortal is nice,but as of now he is nowhere better then pac,nas is up there he is a better mc and writer,but pac is the better artist,mos and talib haven't done enough even they wouldn't put they self ahead of pac,there smarter then that haha,you are right about clef having talent and those songs you named did bang,but better then pac,you need to be slapped again haha,i think that period pussy is getting to you homie,you need to ease up on that,it's affecting yo brain cells

alright i will address every single one of those:

swollen members have just as much talent and just as good of production, just a different style

atmosphere (to me) has better replay value than pac does

john forte has put out some seriously dope ass tracks that people sleep on...the whole poly sci album was off the hook and the I John album was damn good too

all eyes on me is played out as fuck, it has no replay value anymore, im tired of how do u want it, california love, ambitionz az a ridah, etc...im even getting sick of skandalouz even though it was my fav. song from the album.

warren g=regulators...one of the best westcoast albums ever to drop. nuff said

dj quik=guy has more talent than pac in one finger. and i think most people will agree with me on that

dr. dre=perfect flow,lyrics about the same as pac, never brings a wack beat, and spends 10 times the amount of time on an album and makes the album perfect

royce da 5'9'...just because he hasnt "done anything" in his career doesnt mean anything...im talking about pure talent, the guy is more talented than probably anybody else i've listed with the exception of immortal technique

method man again has more talent than pac, biggie, any other member of wu-tang, or almost anyone else on this list, yes he brings some bullshit but even those songs the biggest underground heads will bump

immortal technique...most talented mf on this list, has the best beats, best flow, best lyrics. guy can't be beat and never will be beat, you can't top RAW hip hop..even pac wasnt as raw as tech

homie...explain this...if nas is a better emcee and writer...how is pac a better artist? because if nas is better than pac in those then you've already answered my reason for nas being better

mos def is one of the smartest cats out today, he should cut the racist tip just a bit because none of us have ever enslaved his ass but take that away and he'd crush pac or big same goes for talib kweli

i've already answered myself with clef...nobody can bring as good of a feeling in music than clef. the guy puts nothing into his music but heart.

and theres nothing wrong with period pussy...if its getting to anyones braincells its the watcher...he said he likes to eat it? sick bastard.  

see you got it twisted homie,how can you say someone is better then someone when they haven't done anything!!!!!!!, swollen memebers albums to me are garbage!!!! i heard em they sound like shit,even some of my canada peeps be saying that,i mean if you like them cool,but better then pac his legacy against those corny muthafuccas!!!!!! be serious, immortal tech is dope,i like what he speaks about,but until he is able to get the blocc and hoods in rage and ready to ride and make the pac classics,aint no way you can put him above pac be real cuzz, and mos def is not racist,he is speaking on real shit,yo people ain't been through it,you don't know what he been through so get off that,he got legit reasons not like em who spits that racist shit cause a mear girl broke up with him haha, and um dre don't write his rhymes so how can he be a better rapper then pac,stop it cuzz,clef does make good music we agree on that,better musician but not a better mc,pac (rap) songs are way deeper and stronger then clefs by great lengths, and you ask how i say how is pac a better artist then nas since i think nas is a better writer and (rap) mc, is because of the all around aspect,he's a better performer,i feel his music more,it's more real,his commercial songs is better,and yes nas does commerical cuts too,and although they both was in shitty movies,pac is a better actor, the key word in the debate with pac and nas is (BETTER ARTIST) not mc,i stated who i felt was better at that,atmosphere more replay value then all eyes on me hahahahaha thats a joke cuzz,but maybe thats a culture thing,maybe atmosphere spits about shit you could relate  to more,i mean don't get me wrong i heard em and i wasn't that impressed,but thats me,but come on his legacy can't fucc with pac,he doesn't even have pac's tracc record, and who cares if underground heads will bump method man more then pac, you think method man goes into making an album with the mindstate of "fucc the mainstream i'm happy with just the underground liking me,and hell yeah they bump me more then pac",never cuzz,he's a cool mc,but then again he ain't fucc'n with pac's legacy, and that is what makes you great,and warren g come on thats one album,and ain't nobody talking bout warrens "lyrics" on that shit,it was mainly his production that got him over,i give you some credit on speaking on behalf of your favorites,but you have to admit,your being very bias,as for me,i'm not the biggest pac fan,but i have to give it up to him because of his accomplishments,shit my favorite rapper is MC SHAN,but i ain't gonna say he was better then pac or biggie,i enjoyed his music more then theres,but as far as legacy he ain't fuccing with those cats yell

[M Dogg™]

LOL @ someone crying over Pac. I didn't know one person that cried over due. Hip Hop was already brought to the masses man. In 1993 there was a little group called Wu Tang Clan. I never knew white people liked Hip Hop until I Wu Tang came out. Dre and Snoop also were there bringing Hip Hop to the masses. Man, when my mom or pops or various family members think about Hip Hop, they think of Snoop. So there goes your logic. Chino murdered Pac. Mobb got on Pac. But, why didn't Pac respond to Kill Kill or 51.50? That's because HE was scared. And NOBODY was scared of Pac. You know who they were scared of? Suge. C'mon man. How can you be that gullible? LOL @ anyone fearing Pac. Suge told Pac to diss all those people. Pac was never like that UNTIL Suge came in and turned him into his own personal puppet.

Sales don't matter none. I laugh at anyone bringing up sales.

And what matters about a majority of people not being able to name Pac songs pre-Deathrow? It proves that his music wasn't that important to his "fans" since they came after his death.

'Pac wasn't a diss rapper pre-Death Row. Shit, and who is Kill Kill to 'Pac's skillz. Why would 'Pac adress Kill Kill, when all he would do is put Kill Kill on the stage. Shit, like Ja Rule dissing 50 when no one heard of him. And 'Pac wasn't scared of any rapper. If there was any rapper out there that could beat 'Pac lyrically, it was Biggie. 'Pac wanted to keep shit lyrical. To die for rap to him was not even a thought. Listen to his interviews, he said they should have a westcoast album, an east coast album, release them on the same day, who ever gets more sales wins. So why diss Kill Kill, and take shit to the streets when he was about music. He dissed Biggie, he dissed Mobb Deep, he never got a full diss on Chino XL, but never needed to. He even diss Ice Cube on radio on the Wake Up Show for not telling people to Bow Down until after he came out of jail. After 'Pac got out, he was everywhere, before, he wasn't. But notice, before jail, he was doing Kepp Your Head Up, Me Against the World. He was on that positive stuff, political. After, he said he would change, he would be crazy, and he did just that. He came out to take over. If dissing Kill Kill would have been important to him, he would, but like he said, "I'm a general, and a smart general, and I'm not going to attack at no blind solders" He attack with reason, and purpose, and I'm sorry, Kill Kill ain't shit to what 2Pac had in his plans. Oh, and I'm sorry dogg, but when 'Pac died I knew plenty of people that cried. Homeboy, I respect you, you one of my favorites, but dogg, know that 'Pac was the biggest thing on the westcoast up until his death. And had he died at All Eyez On Me, he would be par with Ice Cube, with E-40. Shit, E-40 got on 'Pac's shit so he could get bigger, same with 4-Tay. But after Makaveli dogg, I have no clue how you could not regonized the GOAT. Dogg, Thug Life, Me Against the World, All Eyez On Me, and the 7 Day Theory. Dogg, how could you not see the greatness in 'Pac? Are you sure you truly understand rap?

[SGV]

^^OK. Let's see here. Homeboy said "all rappers were scared of Pac," I proved him wrong, now it's because Kill Kill wasn't on Pacs level that Pac didn't answer back? Nobody answered back to Pac based on the fact it wasn't beef. It was Pac(with Suge in his ear) just talking shit. Nobody gives a fuck about a shit talker. Biggie dissed Pac on subliminals because he didn't care to give Pac any shine. Pac whined because Chino XL used his name in a metaphor and Chi destroyed him.

After 'Pac got out, he was everywhere, before, he wasn't. But notice, before jail, he was doing Kepp Your Head Up, Me Against the World. He was on that positive stuff, political. After, he said he would change, he would be crazy, and he did just that.

LOL@ this. He changed not because of jail. People come of jail humbled. He changed for the $$$ and Suge. And either way. He wasn't progessing as an artist. He went from being positive and putting lots of thought into his words to TRYING to come hardcore. Wack.

Remember, Pac was also featured on E-40's album prior to All Eyez On Me.   So who was getting shine off of who?

Pac isn't the GOAT in my opinion for that fact that it he never struck me as amazing. Like I said, everything he did had been done by others I consider better. Cube, KRS, Chuck D. They all came with that street smart politically aware content. They did it much better than Pac.

[M Dogg™]

Chuck D even reconginzes 2Pac as someone that would have been the next great rapper. After all, he was the one that came up with the Alive, 7 Day theory.

[Don Breezio]

see you got it twisted homie,how can you say someone is better then someone when they haven't done anything!!!!!!!, swollen memebers albums to me are garbage!!!! i heard em they sound like shit,even some of my canada peeps be saying that,i mean if you like them cool,but better then pac his legacy against those corny muthafuccas!!!!!!

im not talking about influence im talking about talent, and the swollen members have done a lot as far as albums go, they've released 4 albums...by todays standards when artists drop that many in a 2 year period thats nothing but they put a lot of work into their albums.

be serious, immortal tech is dope,i like what he speaks about,but until he is able to get the blocc and hoods in rage and ready to ride and make the pac classics,aint no way you can put him above pac be real cuzz,

again man you misunderstand, i said nothing about influence, of course tech has less influence, the guy is damn near brand new to hip hop compared to pac! you can't deny that immortal technique is probably the most talented fucker in hip hop right now.

and mos def is not racist,he is speaking on real shit,yo people ain't been through it,you don't know what he been through so get off that,he got legit reasons not like em who spits that racist shit cause a mear girl broke up with him haha,

mos def is about as racist as dead prez...how is he speaking on real shit? how is he speaking on what HIS people have been thru...he's not...he's speaking about what his ancestors went through and blaming it on white people today. which is bullshit

and um dre don't write his rhymes so how can he be a better rapper then pac,stop it cuzz,

sorry "cuzz" but i could give a shit less if britney spears writes dre's rhymes...they are just as good as pacs and dre flows just as well if not better. nuff said

clef does make good music we agree on that,better musician but not a better mc,
pac (rap) songs are way deeper and stronger then clefs by great lengths,

clef has tons of rap songs that equal up or come very close to pac, his rap may not beat out pac but very close, and because of that and the fact that clef is 1000 times the musician & writer than pac was he is easily ahead of the game

and you ask how i say how is pac a better artist then nas since i think nas is a better writer and (rap) mc, is because of the all around aspect,he's a better performer,i feel his music more,it's more real,his commercial songs is better,and yes nas does commerical cuts too,and although they both was in shitty movies,pac is a better actor, the key word in the debate with pac and nas is (BETTER ARTIST) not mc,i stated who i felt was better at that,

lmao @ bringing movies into it...homie nas sucks ass at acting and pac was a dope actor, but movies have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it. pac is a better performer why? just because he had the fuck the world attitude? attitude has nothing to do with it! again we're talking about talent and nas kills pac

atmosphere more replay value then all eyes on me hahahahaha thats a joke cuzz,but maybe thats a culture thing,maybe atmosphere spits about shit you could relate  to more,i mean don't get me wrong i heard em and i wasn't that impressed,but thats me,but come on his legacy can't fucc with pac,he doesn't even have pac's tracc record,

i wonder how many times i'm going to have to say this before you get it through your thick head...track records & legacy's dont mean shit. im talking about talent and slug is one talented ass (half) whiteboy. yes you're probably right i can relate to slug's lyrics more than pacs but thats my opinion. legacies dont mean jack shit

and who cares if underground heads will bump method man more then pac, you think method man goes into making an album with the mindstate of "fucc the mainstream i'm happy with just the underground liking me,and hell yeah they bump me more then pac",never cuzz,he's a cool mc,but then again he ain't fucc'n with pac's legacy, and that is what makes you great,

again with the god damn legacies, meth is more TALENTED than pac ever could've been

and warren g come on thats one album,and ain't nobody talking bout warrens "lyrics" on that shit,it was mainly his production that got him over,i give you some credit on speaking on behalf of your favorites,but you have to admit,your being very bias,as for me,i'm not the biggest pac fan,but i have to give it up to him because of his accomplishments,shit my favorite rapper is MC SHAN,but i ain't gonna say he was better then pac or biggie,i enjoyed his music more then theres,but as far as legacy he ain't fuccing with those cats yell

warren g's album was classic, nobody was talking about anybody's lyrics when that album dropped because lyrics werent important. but warren g has stayed putting out consistently dope albums since that one.

as for me being bias thats not true at all. i loved pac when he was alive man, i used to bump his shit all the time and i still do, in fact (believe it or not) im listening to makaveli while writing this post. its not bias at all, i've just learned to realize that pac isnt the greatest...most people are so blinded by the legacy of an average rapper (for that time, he could beat out any of today's new rappers) who died that they dont realize that there is better music out there.

i used to think pac was the greatest back around middle school & freshman/sophomore year...then i realized it wasnt true at all.

again you speak on legacy...stop with the fucking legacy...jesus nobody fucks with pac as far as legacy goes...not even biggie. i will admit that shit pacs legacy will always live on. but as far as talent goes there are shitloads of rappers who make pac look like nelly.