Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Can some one brief me on the Ireland/IRA conflict?
TheSheriff:
My point about the Daily Mail it that it's posted statistics which sound bullshit before. It's my fave paper, but I'm just saying we shouldn't say straight away it's right. But if it's directly census info, the census seems fucked up.
(In that Ulster's 2000 census and Eire's 2001 survey both gave the stats as mine, though they may be wrong.)
Joachim:
--- Quote ---My point about the Daily Mail it that it's posted statistics which sound bullshit before. It's my fave paper, but I'm just saying we shouldn't say straight away it's right. But if it's directly census info, the census seems fucked up.
(In that Ulster's 2000 census and Eire's 2001 survey both gave the stats as mine, though they may be wrong.)
--- End quote ---
Well then we will have to agree to differ, as i cannot prove the cencus is right nor wrong, and quite frankly i couldnt care less at the moment...
Joachim:
Owen, it seems i owe you an apology, i must have misinterpretated the 'Daily Mail' article, and caused a misunderstanding, i apologise...
Now, after a conversation with my grandmother, she told me that 4 years to draw Catholic and Protestant numbers even is turely absurd, she said that at the moment catholic growth is larger then protestant, its no where as near as what i thought i had seen. So after she hit me with some more facts i did some research.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p09s01-woeu.html
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/2002-03-09/usw_nireland.asp
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,472196,00.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=273097
http://www.sinnfein.org/releases/02/pr020402.html - This one mentions unionist leaders addmitting the change in numbers.
The reason the unionists commited to the peace process is because soon they will be a minority in a United Ireland (provided a referendum is given), thus its better to seek peace now rather then later when they are a minority with little say.
ITW [the irish boy]:
We have some true information and some misinformation here.
Ireland was and is a majority catholic state ever since about 600AD. The island of Ireland was colonised by the British Empire around the 16th century. Plantations were made and towns such as Derry in the North were founded. The Irish rebelled but all rebellions were squashed, mainly because of inner bickering. Until 1916. The easter rising of 1916 was a failure. The perpetrators were villified by the general public for provoking britain to turn our streets into war zones. However, Britain executed the leaders, causing uproar in the country. A huge rebellion for independence ensued, and for the first time, guerrilla warfare was used in an urban environment.
In 1921, the British decided enough was enough and brokered an agreement. Michael Collins got a 26 county Ireland, but the country was split on his return. The British promised the last 6 would be handed over in the coming years but Ireland didnt believe it. A civil war ensued, brother fighting brother and it was in that war that Collins was shot. But bear in mind, Collins himself was no stranger to violence. That effectively ended the civil war and those opposing it finally realised they couldnt change it
1960 - now
While the south struggled with freedom, the North's catholic population were under huge persectution. The IRA had formed a while back in response to the UVF being formed to oppose a united ireland. The IRA started a wave of violence against the british in retaliation to the injustices. Communities were segragated for their own security. 25 years of violence followed and after numerous attempts a peace package was decided upon. Today in Ireland there is a lot of anti-british sentiment. Riots are occuring on a daily basis in NI and the RUC, the police, are believed to be biased towards protestants. Increasing population shows that 45% want to be reunited with Ireland and 55% want to remain unified. Higher birth rates among catholics however proves that in the coming years those figures will be reversed. But if ireland was reunified surely violence will begin again. Thats basically it. Thenationalists want to be free again and be rid of British rule.Unionists want to remain with Britain. The majority down here would like a united ireland but would prefer no violence. However, an immense bitterness still remains after british rule.
Please dont try and say that the above is biased. I've lived in Dublin all my life and i know whats going on. The conflict is overshadowed by major world events but violence is ongoing. I'm an athiest so i have no catholic-prod beef. i know a lot of british people but id still love to have our whole country back.+sumone said theres a vast majority of pro-union in the north. All i can say is that is bull. I have read numerous polls in credidable newspapers like the Irish Times and the Independant that show the opposite.
Peace
ITW
PS i hope that answers ur question tiecniec
Joachim:
--- Quote ---We have some true information and some misinformation here.
Ireland was and is a majority catholic state ever since about 600AD. The island of Ireland was colonised by the British Empire around the 16th century. Plantations were made and towns such as Derry in the North were founded. The Irish rebelled but all rebellions were squashed, mainly because of inner bickering. Until 1916. The easter rising of 1916 was a failure. The perpetrators were villified by the general public for provoking britain to turn our streets into war zones. However, Britain executed the leaders, causing uproar in the country. A huge rebellion for independence ensued, and for the first time, guerrilla warfare was used in an urban environment.
In 1921, the British decided enough was enough and brokered an agreement. Michael Collins got a 26 county Ireland, but the country was split on his return. The British promised the last 6 would be handed over in the coming years but Ireland didnt believe it. A civil war ensued, brother fighting brother and it was in that war that Collins was shot. But bear in mind, Collins himself was no stranger to violence. That effectively ended the civil war and those opposing it finally realised they couldnt change it
1960 - now
While the south struggled with freedom, the North's catholic population were under huge persectution. The IRA had formed a while back in response to the UVF being formed to oppose a united ireland. The IRA started a wave of violence against the british in retaliation to the injustices. Communities were segragated for their own security. 25 years of violence followed and after numerous attempts a peace package was decided upon. Today in Ireland there is a lot of anti-british sentiment. Riots are occuring on a daily basis in NI and the RUC, the police, are believed to be biased towards protestants. Increasing population shows that 45% want to be reunited with Ireland and 55% want to remain unified. Higher birth rates among catholics however proves that in the coming years those figures will be reversed. But if ireland was reunified surely violence will begin again. Thats basically it. Thenationalists want to be free again and be rid of British rule.Unionists want to remain with Britain. The majority down here would like a united ireland but would prefer no violence. However, an immense bitterness still remains after british rule.
Please dont try and say that the above is biased. I've lived in Dublin all my life and i know whats going on. The conflict is overshadowed by major world events but violence is ongoing. I'm an athiest so i have no catholic-prod beef. i know a lot of british people but id still love to have our whole country back.+sumone said theres a vast majority of pro-union in the north. All i can say is that is bull. I have read numerous polls in credidable newspapers like the Irish Times and the Independant that show the opposite.
Peace
ITW
PS i hope that answers ur question tiecniec
--- End quote ---
Props for spittin whats real homie, it would be great too see one Ireland with no violence or persecution, and hopefully one day we will.
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