Hip Hop community speaks out against new sampling laws

[Don Jacob]

this is a good law wether you like it or not, the "art" of sampling has lost all meaning


and again wether you like it or not hip hop has helped ruin the musical integrity of popular music

1. i don't think i agree, but can u explain: how did this "art" have "meaning" back in the days and how has it "lost it all" now?

2. i don't necessarily disagree, but could you tell me what u understand by "the musical integrity" of pop and how and by doing what hiphop has contributed to ruining it? and what/who else has?

really, not tryin to start beef, but i wanna know what exactly ure talkin about

when sampling was first introduced it was a nice , fresh, thing....back in the 80's. But it's been beat to death, it's almost like some producers rely on someone else's hits to make their music . i don't have a problem if they can sample a song and make a hot beat then on their next song make a totally original song that's equally as good or better....that's musical skill. Sampling requires the LEAST amount of musical skill, there is some skill but it's like comparing a Flut-a-phone player to a freaking London Symphany orchestra lead Clarenetis when comparing a hip hop producer who samples and a real musician. the musical integrity of popular music has been destroyed (thanks in large part to Hip hop and Punk rock) because of the dumbing down of the music. IN the 40's the number 1 hit was how much was that doggy in the window........musically flat
in the 50's people were meshing genres together to create new genres
in the 60's you had the emergence of groups like the beatles who changed what popular music could be
in the 70's you had groups who were progressing these notions
int he 80's it  continued
in the early 90's it hit it's peak then by the time rap came into prominance, every thing went back to that loopy,formulistic, flat flavor of "how much is that doggy in the window"

we went from ostinado music to progessive back to ostinado.....

[Kill]

when sampling was first introduced it was a nice , fresh, thing....back in the 80's. But it's been beat to death, it's almost like some producers rely on someone else's hits to make their music . i don't have a problem if they can sample a song and make a hot beat then on their next song make a totally original song that's equally as good or better....that's musical skill. Sampling requires the LEAST amount of musical skill, there is some skill but it's like comparing a Flut-a-phone player to a freaking London Symphany orchestra lead Clarenetis when comparing a hip hop producer who samples and a real musician. the musical integrity of popular music has been destroyed (thanks in large part to Hip hop and Punk rock) because of the dumbing down of the music. IN the 40's the number 1 hit was how much was that doggy in the window........musically flat
in the 50's people were meshing genres together to create new genres
in the 60's you had the emergence of groups like the beatles who changed what popular music could be
in the 70's you had groups who were progressing these notions
int he 80's it  continued
in the early 90's it hit it's peak then by the time rap came into prominance, every thing went back to that loopy,formulistic, flat flavor of "how much is that doggy in the window"

we went from ostinado music to progessive back to ostinado.....

ok, i see where you are coming from, but there is way more to sampling in hiphop than the skills it requires
1. Sampling is part of the essence of hiphop and can very well be done skillfully and elaborately enough for the song to be something that requires skills to do. That might not be because it is technically difficult to get ur MPC and sample sumthing, but because the whole arrangement, the choice of what/who to sample and how, the atmosphere a track creates, the combination of the sample and the new, original part of the song and also the vocals laid over the beat combine and make a good hiphop song what it is. Take "Watch Out Now" by the Beatnuts. Ju took one Herbie Mann song, sampled a small excerpt of the flute part and he and Les did sum party-and-bullshit rap over it - yet they managed to do a track millions of heads are feeling 5 years after it came out...that does take a certain type of skill too

2. now you might say that this backs up your point of how music has been "dumbed down" and theoretically u might be right. Question is does a more simple approach to "good music" (as in music people are feelin, not technically elaborate music) destroy its integrity? Why? I agree that it is important to have visionaries who do progressive music, but the way i see it is that when there really IS a process of self-destruction in music due to its reduction to certain formulas, then new impulses will necessarily come, because 1. artists will feel the need to move on and 2. people will show how they are tired of the same old shit.

But my main point is, good music should not be defined by technicalities. That doesn't only go for hiphop, but for any style...take "Nevermind" for example. Anybody who has ever held a guitar is prolly able to play that shit, yet the album is more energetic, catchy and overall gripping than almost everything i know. And i think people bitching bout how Kurt & Nirvana are overrated are oblivious of an important aspect. that's just one example

[Shallow]

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However, Cobain's riffs, as simple as they were, were original. He didn't take small peices of Hendrix solos and use them to create songs. That is essentially what hip hop does. It takes a small catchy part of a long compostion and loops it. Nirvana at least composed their own music. That cannot be said for a very large percent of hip hop producers.

[Kill]

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However, Cobain's riffs, as simple as they were, were original. He didn't take small peices of Hendrix solos and use them to create songs. That is essentially what hip hop does. It takes a small catchy part of a long compostion and loops it. Nirvana at least composed their own music. That cannot be said for a very large percent of hip hop producers.

yeah, i just used that to say that good music don't need to be elaborate and complicated...the originality thing is a different point, true

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Sampling is a lot harder than you guys think...Cutting up a simple loop, arranging it to match the drums, switching up the tempo, reversing it, tweaking it, whatever it may be, it's not as simple as it seems...With sampling, you can take a depressing song, cut up a loop, and make it a party song...People are quick to say sampling is uncreative, but when you start producing beats and sample shit, come back to me and tell me how easy it is...I produce music; original and sampled...Both come out equally dope, but I can tell you one thing, sampling is harder..And I'm not on some electric keyboard nonesense... I play piano/keyboard and write compositions...I can also play drums, but live drums don't sound good in Hip-Hop...PeACe

[Shallow]

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I don't mean to say that it takes no skill what so ever, but I still think it takes the least skill. Put it this way, I think the best artists in all the other sections of rock n roll, are more creative and musical than the best in hip hop.

[M Dogg™]

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I don't mean to say that it takes no skill what so ever, but I still think it takes the least skill. Put it this way, I think the best artists in all the other sections of rock n roll, are more creative and musical than the best in hip hop.

I don't think so. I mean, in hip hop, you have a producer, taking other music, and recreating it. In rock music, you have people that play instruments, and that's it. You have a drum man that does his drums, you have the bass, a guitar, keyboards, and all types of other sounds. But you are not having your drummer doing a guitar solo. In hip-hop, they by-pass the instruments, and one person creates the sound. In rock, you have a music writer to do it all, and them the players play what they are told. I will give whoever writes the music lots of credit, but at the same time, I will give a hip-hop producer credit for putting together sounds to make music. And you have to remember, not everything in a rap song is sampled anymore. At one time, yes, but now a days, producers are adding more original sounds to the beats. But I will get mad the day sampling of voices is no longer there. There is nothing like hearing Premo, or Kanye, or most producers, sample some old school shit, mix it into the song and make the song that much more powerful.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

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I don't mean to say that it takes no skill what so ever, but I still think it takes the least skill. Put it this way, I think the best artists in all the other sections of rock n roll, are more creative and musical than the best in hip hop.

That's your opinion...

[On The Edge of Insanity]

I'm with Sccit on this one, sampling does take a lot of skill to do it properly, i.e. chopping samples up, fitting them wit drums, bass, etc. Compared to actually playing instruments I wouldn't know, but as far as I'm concerned to sample you have to understand how music sounds, in order to match up the correct elements within a track. You can tell the difference between a good and bad producer by how well the different elements of a beat match one another, and that is all down to the skill in picking the correct samples to fit one another and chopping them up correctly.

You do get some producers nowadays who just take a four bar loop from an old soul track, speed it up, and then add drums and bass (no names mentioned), which admittably probably doesn't take that much skill or creativity, but there are so many others who take samples from such a wide variation of music styles and put them together to make cohesive tracks, to say that there is little skill in the process would be stupid.

[Now_Im_Not_Banned]

Yes...There are producers out there who cut loops from five different songs, tweak them, and fuse them together to make one incredible beat...That takes a lot of skill, and is beyond creative, if you ask me...It's not how you people picture it...Sure there are producers who take advantage, and straight out rip shit off. But there are also producers who use the art of sampling to create extremely dope, creative,  and skillful music...PeACe

[white Boy]

i love shit like Wu tang - cream and Necro - light my fire.. those piano samples are addictive..

[Shallow]

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I don't mean to say that it takes no skill what so ever, but I still think it takes the least skill. Put it this way, I think the best artists in all the other sections of rock n roll, are more creative and musical than the best in hip hop.

That's your opinion...

Of course that's my opinion. The fact that I used "I think" to start off all my claims shows that I am stating it as being just my opinion. For the record I'm sure there are a lot of people that share my opinion. Do you disagree? Do you think that a guy like Primo is more talented and creative than a guy like Hendrix? Just wondering.

[Kill]

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I don't mean to say that it takes no skill what so ever, but I still think it takes the least skill. Put it this way, I think the best artists in all the other sections of rock n roll, are more creative and musical than the best in hip hop.

That's your opinion...

Of course that's my opinion. The fact that I used "I think" to start off all my claims shows that I am stating it as being just my opinion. For the record I'm sure there are a lot of people that share my opinion. Do you disagree? Do you think that a guy like Primo is more talented and creative than a guy like Hendrix? Just wondering.

i don't think it is fair to take the best guitar player ever and talk about 'guys like him', cuz the only 'guy like Hendrix' was Hendrix. If u think Primo > average guitar player or even Primo > good guitar player it don't mean Primo > Hendrix.....

[Shallow]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't mean to say that it takes no skill what so ever, but I still think it takes the least skill. Put it this way, I think the best artists in all the other sections of rock n roll, are more creative and musical than the best in hip hop.

That's your opinion...

Of course that's my opinion. The fact that I used "I think" to start off all my claims shows that I am stating it as being just my opinion. For the record I'm sure there are a lot of people that share my opinion. Do you disagree? Do you think that a guy like Primo is more talented and creative than a guy like Hendrix? Just wondering.

i don't think it is fair to take the best guitar player ever and talk about 'guys like him', cuz the only 'guy like Hendrix' was Hendrix. If u think Primo > average guitar player or even Primo > good guitar player it don't mean Primo > Hendrix.....

I meant Jimi artstically. I could also bring up Jimmy Page, Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen, Roger Waters, Elton John, Billy Joel, Rick James, Curtis Mayfeild, Frank Zappa, Michael Jackson, etc, etc, etc, etc. and still put them way over Primo on my list. I'm not comparing DJ skills, to the skills of these guys with regards to the instruments. I'm comparing artisic merit.

[Primo]

this is a hip hop board. People are gonna be offended if you offend hip hop.