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Hip Hop community speaks out against new sampling laws
Don Jacob:
--- Quote from: K.Ill on September 20, 2004, 10:53:23 AM ---
--- Quote from: Jake La Motta on September 20, 2004, 09:05:26 AM ---this is a good law wether you like it or not, the "art" of sampling has lost all meaning
and again wether you like it or not hip hop has helped ruin the musical integrity of popular music
--- End quote ---
1. i don't think i agree, but can u explain: how did this "art" have "meaning" back in the days and how has it "lost it all" now?
2. i don't necessarily disagree, but could you tell me what u understand by "the musical integrity" of pop and how and by doing what hiphop has contributed to ruining it? and what/who else has?
really, not tryin to start beef, but i wanna know what exactly ure talkin about
--- End quote ---
when sampling was first introduced it was a nice , fresh, thing....back in the 80's. But it's been beat to death, it's almost like some producers rely on someone else's hits to make their music . i don't have a problem if they can sample a song and make a hot beat then on their next song make a totally original song that's equally as good or better....that's musical skill. Sampling requires the LEAST amount of musical skill, there is some skill but it's like comparing a Flut-a-phone player to a freaking London Symphany orchestra lead Clarenetis when comparing a hip hop producer who samples and a real musician. the musical integrity of popular music has been destroyed (thanks in large part to Hip hop and Punk rock) because of the dumbing down of the music. IN the 40's the number 1 hit was how much was that doggy in the window........musically flat
in the 50's people were meshing genres together to create new genres
in the 60's you had the emergence of groups like the beatles who changed what popular music could be
in the 70's you had groups who were progressing these notions
int he 80's it continued
in the early 90's it hit it's peak then by the time rap came into prominance, every thing went back to that loopy,formulistic, flat flavor of "how much is that doggy in the window"
we went from ostinado music to progessive back to ostinado.....
Kill:
--- Quote from: Jake La Motta on September 21, 2004, 09:14:46 AM ---when sampling was first introduced it was a nice , fresh, thing....back in the 80's. But it's been beat to death, it's almost like some producers rely on someone else's hits to make their music . i don't have a problem if they can sample a song and make a hot beat then on their next song make a totally original song that's equally as good or better....that's musical skill. Sampling requires the LEAST amount of musical skill, there is some skill but it's like comparing a Flut-a-phone player to a freaking London Symphany orchestra lead Clarenetis when comparing a hip hop producer who samples and a real musician. the musical integrity of popular music has been destroyed (thanks in large part to Hip hop and Punk rock) because of the dumbing down of the music. IN the 40's the number 1 hit was how much was that doggy in the window........musically flat
in the 50's people were meshing genres together to create new genres
in the 60's you had the emergence of groups like the beatles who changed what popular music could be
in the 70's you had groups who were progressing these notions
int he 80's it continued
in the early 90's it hit it's peak then by the time rap came into prominance, every thing went back to that loopy,formulistic, flat flavor of "how much is that doggy in the window"
we went from ostinado music to progessive back to ostinado.....
--- End quote ---
ok, i see where you are coming from, but there is way more to sampling in hiphop than the skills it requires
1. Sampling is part of the essence of hiphop and can very well be done skillfully and elaborately enough for the song to be something that requires skills to do. That might not be because it is technically difficult to get ur MPC and sample sumthing, but because the whole arrangement, the choice of what/who to sample and how, the atmosphere a track creates, the combination of the sample and the new, original part of the song and also the vocals laid over the beat combine and make a good hiphop song what it is. Take "Watch Out Now" by the Beatnuts. Ju took one Herbie Mann song, sampled a small excerpt of the flute part and he and Les did sum party-and-bullshit rap over it - yet they managed to do a track millions of heads are feeling 5 years after it came out...that does take a certain type of skill too
2. now you might say that this backs up your point of how music has been "dumbed down" and theoretically u might be right. Question is does a more simple approach to "good music" (as in music people are feelin, not technically elaborate music) destroy its integrity? Why? I agree that it is important to have visionaries who do progressive music, but the way i see it is that when there really IS a process of self-destruction in music due to its reduction to certain formulas, then new impulses will necessarily come, because 1. artists will feel the need to move on and 2. people will show how they are tired of the same old shit.
But my main point is, good music should not be defined by technicalities. That doesn't only go for hiphop, but for any style...take "Nevermind" for example. Anybody who has ever held a guitar is prolly able to play that shit, yet the album is more energetic, catchy and overall gripping than almost everything i know. And i think people bitching bout how Kurt & Nirvana are overrated are oblivious of an important aspect. that's just one example
Shallow:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, Cobain's riffs, as simple as they were, were original. He didn't take small peices of Hendrix solos and use them to create songs. That is essentially what hip hop does. It takes a small catchy part of a long compostion and loops it. Nirvana at least composed their own music. That cannot be said for a very large percent of hip hop producers.
Kill:
--- Quote from: Shallow on September 21, 2004, 03:55:12 PM ---^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, Cobain's riffs, as simple as they were, were original. He didn't take small peices of Hendrix solos and use them to create songs. That is essentially what hip hop does. It takes a small catchy part of a long compostion and loops it. Nirvana at least composed their own music. That cannot be said for a very large percent of hip hop producers.
--- End quote ---
yeah, i just used that to say that good music don't need to be elaborate and complicated...the originality thing is a different point, true
Now_Im_Not_Banned:
Sampling is a lot harder than you guys think...Cutting up a simple loop, arranging it to match the drums, switching up the tempo, reversing it, tweaking it, whatever it may be, it's not as simple as it seems...With sampling, you can take a depressing song, cut up a loop, and make it a party song...People are quick to say sampling is uncreative, but when you start producing beats and sample shit, come back to me and tell me how easy it is...I produce music; original and sampled...Both come out equally dope, but I can tell you one thing, sampling is harder..And I'm not on some electric keyboard nonesense... I play piano/keyboard and write compositions...I can also play drums, but live drums don't sound good in Hip-Hop...PeACe
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