Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Native North Americans (Indains, First Nations or whatever).......
tommyilromano:
Impressive but when I think it took 200 men to conquer all that it just seems... like a waste.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Lost Angel on October 13, 2004, 03:46:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on October 13, 2004, 02:47:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ozir on October 13, 2004, 10:45:03 AM ---^
I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
--- End quote ---
I don't care for the holiday either way, but he did discover America for the Europeans, as far as the story goes. Europeans would have figured out the world was round after the enlightenment any way, but Columbus was the first to proclaim it in Europe at that time, and he is credited for his idea.
--- End quote ---
first off, the Greeks discovered the world was round. Any European that thought the world was flat was more than likely a backwoods country European. The only problem was that people were afriad to travel around the world, for fear of the unknown. There was rumored to be monsters and whatnot. Also, how big the world was, was also misjudged. They thought that if the world was round, it was only the world that they knew. They did not think that there was room for a whole 'nother world. To even further the thought of Columbus not discovering America, even for the Europeans, Vikings have been trading with Natives in Canada for hundreds of years before Columbus. Wit Columbue though, is his sailing came to find a short cut to India, and was funded by the newly freed Spain. Spain had been under Moore rule for 700 years, and was freed in 1492. Their first big mission was to find a short cut to India.
--- End quote ---
Yeah I know all about the Greeks, I am one. I never get to listen to anything else but the Greeks this, the Greeks that. What I don't get is that the word Greek is a deragatory term made up by the Romans after they conquered Greece (or the Hellenic Union, what ever you prefer). To call a me a Greek isn't much different than calling a black guy a nigger. Well anyway, I just thought it was funny that Greeks accept it with out any type of arguments. I guess after 2000 years of slavery, from one ruler to another, they got used to it.
As for your statement. Greek culture and studies were not present in the 1400s. The Enlightenment didn't happen yet, and the Greek documents were not yet presented to Spain, England, or France. The Greek that actually measured the circumference of the Earth, I think his name was Eratosthenes, 39,300 km is what he got, the actual number is 40,075.16 km. That's pretty close when using shadows and light, and a hell of a mathematical mathod. To be only 700 kms off is amazing. But this was not known to the Europeans. You must remember that during his time The Muslims still had rule over all the Greek land and documents. Greece didn't actually become liberated until the 1800s, but the Europeans gained access to the Greek documents before that. Rome had all that knowledge, but it was taken over too, mid first milenium, and when the Frankish Kings and such took over Rome,they didn't bother keeping around any educational material. You can only imagine how much further Science and Math would be today, if it didn't take a 1000 year break in the western world. The bottom line is, it was not comon knowlegde to Europeans that the worl was round. Remember, these were the dark ages.
tommyilromano:
--- Quote from: Shallow on October 13, 2004, 05:46:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lost Angel on October 13, 2004, 03:46:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shallow on October 13, 2004, 02:47:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ozir on October 13, 2004, 10:45:03 AM ---^
I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
--- End quote ---
I don't care for the holiday either way, but he did discover America for the Europeans, as far as the story goes. Europeans would have figured out the world was round after the enlightenment any way, but Columbus was the first to proclaim it in Europe at that time, and he is credited for his idea.
--- End quote ---
first off, the Greeks discovered the world was round. Any European that thought the world was flat was more than likely a backwoods country European. The only problem was that people were afriad to travel around the world, for fear of the unknown. There was rumored to be monsters and whatnot. Also, how big the world was, was also misjudged. They thought that if the world was round, it was only the world that they knew. They did not think that there was room for a whole 'nother world. To even further the thought of Columbus not discovering America, even for the Europeans, Vikings have been trading with Natives in Canada for hundreds of years before Columbus. Wit Columbue though, is his sailing came to find a short cut to India, and was funded by the newly freed Spain. Spain had been under Moore rule for 700 years, and was freed in 1492. Their first big mission was to find a short cut to India.
--- End quote ---
Yeah I know all about the Greeks, I am one. I never get to listen to anything else but the Greeks this, the Greeks that. What I don't get is that the word Greek is a deragatory term made up by the Romans after they conquered Greece (or the Hellenic Union, what ever you prefer). To call a me a Greek isn't much different than calling a black guy a nigger. Well anyway, I just thought it was funny that Greeks accept it with out any type of arguments. I guess after 2000 years of slavery, from one ruler to another, they got used to it.
As for your statement. Greek culture and studies were not present in the 1400s. The Enlightenment didn't happen yet, and the Greek documents were not yet presented to Spain, England, or France. The Greek that actually measured the circumference of the Earth, I think his name was Eratosthenes, 39,300 km is what he got, the actual number is 40,075.16 km. That's pretty close when using shadows and light, and a hell of a mathematical mathod. To be only 700 kms off is amazing. But this was not known to the Europeans. You must remember that during his time The Muslims still had rule over all the Greek land and documents. Greece didn't actually become liberated until the 1800s, but the Europeans gained access to the Greek documents before that. Rome had all that knowledge, but it was taken over too, mid first milenium, and when the Frankish Kings and such took over Rome,they didn't bother keeping around any educational material. You can only imagine how much further Science and Math would be today, if it didn't take a 1000 year break in the western world. The bottom line is, it was not comon knowlegde to Europeans that the worl was round. Remember, these were the dark ages.
--- End quote ---
Yeah i didn't think it was common knowledge the world was round but I wasn't 100% sure so I let it go. I didn't know that about the word "greek" though thats some good knowledge you kickin out. My Fiancees Father is "greek" she always says "Selonic" though. She didnt even understand the word greek initially I thought she was sayin she was part Slavonic! She is actually Arabic/Turkish and her Father is Selonic.
Shallow:
The word the Romans used was "Greco" or "Greko". You know like in Greco-Roman wrestling. Not many people consider it disrespectfu today because it was so long ago, and by the time Greeks got out of that slavery they were right into another one. But the other slave masters didn't make fun of their name, they put down their God, and I guess the Greeks cared more about Jesus than a name. Greece was never really a unified country any way. The Alexander period didn't last that long, before that it was all states and provinces, and after Alexander it was enslaved. A guy was Athenian, or Spartan. The name of the land was, in Greek is pronounced, "Elatha". The period was called th Hellenistic Period, and a Greek was called a Hellene (in Greek "Elinas"). These words are preset even today. There is no word in Greek that sounds like or means Greece, or Greek.
I've never head of the word "Selonic". You sure you didn't mean "Hellenic"?
tommyilromano:
I know Greco that is what I usually call Greeks(I mean no offense) I am Italian. My girlfriend speaks Turkish and Arabic(and of course english) so it might be Greek in one of those languages I will ask when I see her later today(probably turkish). Hellonics ;) are cool in my book. BTW- We are gonna be vacationing to Rhodes in a couple of months you have any suggestions on where to visit?
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