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Ok...Woodrow, Trauma and any Bush supporters can you explain sth to me?

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*Jamal*:
Read the post above... I clearly stated that the U.S. foreign policy is ONE OF THE CAUSES... I didn't say it was THE CAUSE... do you know the difference?

*Jamal*:
Take Iraq for example... we helped bring Saddam to power. Saddam tortured people in his country. We didn't give a shit. He nationalized the oil fields, and we wanted to get rid of him. We used his torture as a reason to do so. Is that right or fair, in your opinion?

Now you might assume that I oppose getting rid of Saddam, but that is not the case. Of course we should remove him, but you know what would be better? If we didn't help bring him to power in the first place. One could make the argument of "oh, how were we supposed to know that he was going to torture his people?!". Well then, we should've attempted to remove him from power just as quickly as we had brought him to power, and not waited until we lose our economic interest.

Do you see what I mean?

tommyilromano:
He keeps Incirlik AB a hostile fire zone and I get more money because of it. I didn't vote but I was glad he won.

Thirteen:

--- Quote from: *Jamal* on November 03, 2004, 11:01:29 PM ---Take Iraq for example... we helped bring Saddam to power. Saddam tortured people in his country. We didn't give a shit. He nationalized the oil fields, and we wanted to get rid of him. We used his torture as a reason to do so. Is that right or fair, in your opinion?

Now you might assume that I oppose getting rid of Saddam, but that is not the case. Of course we should remove him, but you know what would be better? If we didn't help bring him to power in the first place. One could make the argument of "oh, how were we supposed to know that he was going to torture his people?!". Well then, we should've attempted to remove him from power just as quickly as we had brought him to power, and not waited until we lose our economic interest.

Do you see what I mean?

--- End quote ---

i got all that, and i agree that america sometimes has alot of different agendas but the fact is that americas "foreign policy and oppression" is an excuse for terrorists...if we're so brutal to these countries that have less than us, why are the majority of terrorists either wealthy or well off? why are the people that support terrorists millionaires?


fact is these people just have ideals that they want to push on everyone else, and they are in a position to do so. if you look at it, it sort of resembles the way america handles thing, but at least america abides by some laws as to terrorists, the ends justify the means

*Jamal*:
You got it all twisted. First of all, you shouldn't downplay the main cause of the issue here. You said "i agree that america sometimes has alot of different agendas". That right there is the problem. They're not "different" agendas, they're wrong. Want some examples? Noreaga, "Iran/Contra Affair", the Mujahideen (we supported them because they were fighting the Soviets, but they carried out horrible human rights violations just like the Taliban, I know this because my parents lived through it), Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, etc the list goes on. We support people/groups like this. Once they don't benefit us anymore, we use their wrong-doings as reasons to fight against them.

By the way, I never said that America oppresses these people, I said America's foreign policy has aided leaders who oppress these people. There's a difference.

The majority of terrorists aren't "wealthy"; however, some of the leaders of these organizations are (ex: Bin Laden). Use some common sense here... if a large group of people feel a certain way about something, but only the wealthy ones have the power to do anything about it, then who would be supporting this group of people to accomplish that goal? The wealthy ones. This is where our foreign policy comes into play again... the CIA has actually, in the past, financed "terrorists". We financed Noreaga. He was on the CIA payroll, making $100,000 a year. Nice to see our tax dollars at work, but that's besides the point.

You say "these people want to push their ideals on everyone else". That's twisted. They're actually asking America to stop pushing its ideals on them. That's their whole goal, to get America out of their homeland. They don't want foreign troops on their soil, they don't want to be led by puppet governments, they don't want to live under oppressive leaders such as the ones we've witnessed in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc.. all of which receive support from the U.S.

You say they handle things the same way America does, except America, at least, abides by some laws. In case you don't remember, or didn't know, the U.S. actually ignored a good number of International laws.

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