Nas Sparks Controversy w/ 'Coon Picnic' Song

[M Dogg™]

you didn't even read my post. You just responded to what you thought I typed. You read something about Eminem and assumed that was all i wrote. As I said, the problem is way deeper than you can imagion. It's a problem within our communities that you can never understand. Deal with it, move on with life, and don't judge Nas for being someone that expresses his point of view as a black man about black issues. That's like me judging white people for white issues. I don't know how white people think. I can't just say, well Eminem is a racist because he knows his taking advantage of his race, and is ignoring black people who started hip-hop. I don't even feel like that, and it's not my place to say. Now if Eminem says some shit on Mexicans, like we are all illegals, then we have an issue. The problem we have in our community, you can never understand. It runs deep, and wither it's for better or worst, because of the nature of our history, our issues have to deal with how we interact with white people, because well, white people basically took over our history. So what you have here are issues that run deeper than you can see. If you can't see the whole issue, then please don't comment.

[Shallow]

you didn't even read my post. You just responded to what you thought I typed. You read something about Eminem and assumed that was all i wrote. As I said, the problem is way deeper than you can imagion. It's a problem within our communities that you can never understand. Deal with it, move on with life, and don't judge Nas for being someone that expresses his point of view as a black man about black issues. That's like me judging white people for white issues. I don't know how white people think. I can't just say, well Eminem is a racist because he knows his taking advantage of his race, and is ignoring black people who started hip-hop. I don't even feel like that, and it's not my place to say. Now if Eminem says some shit on Mexicans, like we are all illegals, then we have an issue. The problem we have in our community, you can never understand. It runs deep, and wither it's for better or worst, because of the nature of our history, our issues have to deal with how we interact with white people, because well, white people basically took over our history. So what you have here are issues that run deeper than you can see. If you can't see the whole issue, then please don't comment.

I re-read your post. I guess I confused the White America part with the White America song. It still doesn't change anything. It's not what was said, as much as how it was said and by who said it. I'm disappointed with Nas because he claims to be better than that. I'd be disappointed with Cosby and Gibson, because they claim the same. I don't care what Em says because I don't expect anything from Em as far ad morality is concerened.

I (think) understand what you mean when you say the White Man's world has caused people of other races to hate themselves and look at whiter as better or more respectable. This is something that needs to be fixed, but not by insulting those that choose lighter women. You cannot say for sure that a black or hispanic man with a white women is only with her for class, or subconscious betterment. It's a nice theory and it may be true for some, but it is foolish to apply it to every interracial couple you see (I'm not saying that you do). What if they really do love each other and want to be together?

The bottom line is that I just don't like his stand. If he were to come out with a song where the obvious message is "all you blacks that think white means better or more respectable need to love yourselves and accept equality, but that doesn't mean you have to stay with your own to stay 'black". Then I would commend him, and totally agree with the moral of the song. There is nothing wrong with saying that. Calling blacks with white women sell outs, or blacks not from the streets who don't give to the streets, sell outs, is falling victim to the times. Nas claims he's above it, yet he's failed to show it. He did the same on verse 3 of I Can. There is a way to compliment one race with out insulting the other, he chooses not to do so. That's fine for a black seperatist, because that's what they stand for, but Nas claims to stand for much more.

I apoligize if I missed your point again.  Please explain it to me if I'm wrong.

[M Dogg™]

you got the point. It's just understanding, which is hard. It's all good. I mean, you expect more from Nas, and as a minority, I expect no less, because to me, it's something I feel should be touched on. As someone who sees the issue as it is, and knows the resent history, and has been on both sides of the interracial dating fence, getting dissed for dating white girls, and if you can believe this, I was actually getting praise for dating a Latina, not because she was pretty or we looked happy together, but because I stuck to my race... lol. I has a lot more to do with love. Yes, in some cases it is love, and yes it's possible. But the main issue is so deep. It's deeper for minorities because we have to look at ourselves, our communities, our people. This is an issue that 2Pac did many years ago, it's one that Chuck D, Ice Cube and many other "political" or "conscience" rapper has tackled, all from the same stance Nas is in. If all these rappers that are seen as higher in social awareness take the same stance, don't you think that what you see as negative, that others see as positive. As I said, it's not about right or wrong, it's about self image, self hate in our communities, also it's about racial awareness, and who we are. It's deep, for minorities, it's real deep. You have your stance because of your background and how it's not an issue for you. Our stance comes from our history and the fact that it is an issue. Just we come to the same issue from different angles... so we look at it differently. Don't hate Nas if he sees the issue from the left side when his looking in from the left, well you see it on the right. It's a very sad reality about the state of racial relations. You'd think after all these years, it would finally end.

[Juronimo]

Tiger Woods doesn't owe anyone shit. It was the foolish ignorant racist pride of the African Americans that caused them to embrace him.

Are you serious? Being proud of being black, even though for years we have been told we were inferior and ignorant makes us racist?

Wow.

Damn straight I'm proud of being black. My heritage, what my ancestors have accomplishments despite overwhelming odds makes me proud.

How does me or any other black person being proud of our heritage makes us racist? You obviously have no idea what racism is. I really hope you're not this stupid.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you listen to hip hop? What do you get out of it? Do you feel it, I mean really feel what's being expressed by hip hop artists, I mean the artists the are actually speaking on some real shit?

[Juronimo]

Shallow, just let it go. You're on the outside looking in. Juronimo is black, he feels what Nas is saying and understands it.

This has to do with right and wrong, not black and not black. I hate when people say if you're not black then you can't...... whatever. Nas tries to come off as this holier than thou type of person and he constanty contradicts it. If some KKK guy said the same thing I probably wouldn't think anything of it, because that guy would be seen as the idiot he is and there would be no reason for me say what had already been said by everyone else, but it isn't okay for a black person to show racism against blacks or accuse them of being less "black" than they should be.

The funny thing is that white people really have an issue with blacks talking about the black community, because it's one thing they cannot control. Black will not have any of this talking about black issues. Now if Eminem talks about white America, his an artist genious, his stating his opinion, but if Nas is talking about the state of black people, you get pissed because it's not your place to say shit, but Nas can. You are saying his racist, for dissing black people for doing stupit shit. It's a black community issue, and you get mad because you can't understand it has nothing to so with black and white, or right or wrong. What this has to do with is self image, it has to do with self hate of your race, and many other issues. I can give examples in the Latin community, because that's what I know, and speaking to many black people, they have the same issues. Like when a child is born, it's better to be lighter, because lighter is considered more attractive. In music videos, it's the lighter girls because that's see as beautiful. In Latin communities, if a woman is attractive enough, she will more than likely marry a white man, because that's considered a step up in class status. Black women though are not liked by white men, except white men that want to be black. When a Latin man gets an education, he goes for white women because they are a sign that they have made it, they can be accepted by white America. I've heard the same with black. In our communities, many women are left by the men that are still in the community, because our good men leave and marry white women (more of a myth, since that's our women's excuse to why there is no good Latin men) My mom was not a racist, but before she died she said it very clearly she does not want me to marry a white woman. It's an issue that deals with us, and our self hate of our race, not the white race. You guys just happen to be who we try to be like. The issue is even deeper than that. That's all just a quick type out. You can't even begin to understand it, so please don't try.

Nicely said, Lost Angel.

[Shallow]

Tiger Woods doesn't owe anyone shit. It was the foolish ignorant racist pride of the African Americans that caused them to embrace him.

Are you serious? Being proud of being black, even though for years we have been told we were inferior and ignorant makes us racist?

Wow.

Damn straight I'm proud of being black. My heritage, what my ancestors have accomplishments despite overwhelming odds makes me proud.

How does me or any other black person being proud of our heritage makes us racist? You obviously have no idea what racism is. I really hope you're not this stupid.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you listen to hip hop? What do you get out of it? Do you feel it, I mean really feel what's being expressed by hip hop artists, I mean the artists the are actually speaking on some real shit?

Being proud to be black is not racist, but only liking golf because a black guy is good at it is racist. If Tiger was white how many black kids would care? Look at Vijay Singh, he's dark skinned and no one gives a shit. He never gets the big money ad deals or anything like that. Tiger just went out there to play golf, not represent the streets, because he wasn't from the streets. A whole bunch of black kids and community leaders embraced him just because he was black. How is that not racist? I would say it's like white kids who only started listening to hip hop because if Em, but it was Hammer and Vanilla Ice that brought those kids in to hip hop.

As for why I listen to hip hop; well I don't listen to too much anymore; very little actually. When I did I was younger and I found NWA, Snoop, and DPG to be very funny, and the comedy aspect was what brought me in. I appreciated Tupac for his poetic lyricism and incredible recording voice. I never listened to any music to become empowered, I had Jesus for that and he's a little better than Pac or Nas. Dear Mama was the closest hip hop song that made me emotional, but no where near as emotional as Bruce Springsteen's 41 Shots (it's a song about a young black kid, Charles, in New York who was gunned down by police. He had no weapon but was shot 41 times because they thought he was carrying something). Bruce sang it live in New York right in front of the police department who were honorary guests at the concert. Bruce didn't directly point the finger but it was more than implied. It was more a sad song than a hate song, but you could feel the anger in Bruce's voice; very touching.


Now let me give you a little insight on my ancestry, Lost Angel this somewhat responds to you as well. I am of Greek descent. My ancestors from about 500-300 BC were the center of the western world. They flourished, learned, and expanded. Greece was not one nation until Alexander united the city states and made it his goal to spread the Greek way of living. He went in Egypt which was war torn, united it and became Pharaoh, he went west and north spreading Greece to North West Africa and south East Asia. After his death his kingdom was split, and another force began to emerge. Rome was next in line to conquer. Greece was quickly decimated, and everywhere but Egypt was now over taken by Rome. (The last phase of Egypt actually was very Greek. Cleopatra was a Greek woman and a direct descendant of Ptolemy, one of Alexander's general). Any way, when Rome conquered Greece they pretty much took everything; the language, the religion, the math, the science, and changed what the Greeks called themselves. A Greek before Rome was called "elinas" or Hellenic. The word Greek or Greco is derogatory, like Nigger. No where in the history of Greece did Greeks ever refer to themselves as Greeks. Until years later when they just accepted the word as the universal term for them, and now a days they don't even realize it was once an insult.

Greece continued enslaved under Roman rule until Rome crumbled and the Frankish Kings took over. Eastern Rome continued to stay active and ran Greece. The rise of Christianity lead to more Greeks being granted freedom from slavery. Until about 1450 when the Muslim Ottoman Empire took over Rome and Greece. Greece was now enslaved again, by the Turks this time. They were forced to convert or remain as slaves. They chose slavery, something most other countries did not. All those black African countries were now always Muslim by choice; many were forced into it by the Muslim army. The Greeks decided to keep their Christian beliefs even though the Muslim and Turkish teachings were taught to children in school. (Imagine the white supremacists taking black children from the fields and putting them in school, only to teach them that black is inferior, and should be enslaved). The Greeks had to maintain the culture through underground methods. Schools and churches were privately built in basements of buildings, stores, and houses. For 400 years they maintained this, while slowly building an army to revolt. The day finally came in the 1800s. Greece fought back and drove Turkey out. Unfortunately for the other enslaved countries like Armenia who didn't have the strong revolt Greece had, Turkey took their frustrations out on them; keeping them in strong slavery, and in the early 1900s, actually performing a holocaust or genocide on Armenia.

After the revolution, Greece was finally a country again with a King; something that hadn't been in Greece for over 2000 years. However, the Greek people did not want a king, they wanted a democracy like Greece was meant to have and a civil War broke out, eventually leading to the return of democracy in Greece, where the term was coined and the notion most likely invented.

Greeks today have this immense sense of pride for overcoming the odds and striving. They too frown upon interracial union. When I grew up it was almost forced upon me to have Greek friends and find Greek girls, and celebrated when I did. I don't care what kind of girl I marry or what kind of friends I have, but I do understand what it's like to live in a community that where you are supposed to stick with your own. I don't just mean white. If I brought home French, German, or Italian, it wouldn't be any different than bringing home a black or Hispanic, and bring home Turk is out of the question. However if I were to fall in love with a Turkish girl, I wouldn't cast her away because a tight knit community would shun me. I'd just move away and start my life. More importantly I WOULD NEVER MAKE A SONG INSULTING THOSE GREEKS THAT CHOOSE MATES OUTSIDE THE GREEK CULTURE, AND ACCUSE THEM OF BEING LESS GREEK. I don't consider myself a Greek, I'm a human being who lives in Canada, and has parents who lived and grew up in Greece. That's as far as I choose to take it.

Please don't say I don't understand from both sides. I'm not white like you think I am. Blacks see me as white, whites see me as Greek, and Nazis, if they had won, would class me as Mediterranean and would have me enslaved (because I'm inferior to Aryans). During World War 2 a German was found dead in Greece and the German army went from town to town, in the area the man was found, lining all the Greek men up and killing them, just to make statement.

[THA ONE*]

Tiger Woods doesn't owe anyone shit. It was the foolish ignorant racist pride of the African Americans that caused them to embrace him.

Are you serious? Being proud of being black, even though for years we have been told we were inferior and ignorant makes us racist?

Wow.

Damn straight I'm proud of being black. My heritage, what my ancestors have accomplishments despite overwhelming odds makes me proud.

How does me or any other black person being proud of our heritage makes us racist? You obviously have no idea what racism is. I really hope you're not this stupid.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you listen to hip hop? What do you get out of it? Do you feel it, I mean really feel what's being expressed by hip hop artists, I mean the artists the are actually speaking on some real shit?

A whole bunch of black kids and community leaders embraced him just because he was black. How is that not racist? I would say it's like white kids who only started listening to hip hop because if Em, but it was Hammer and Vanilla Ice that brought those kids in to hip hop.

The reason the black community and the kids embraced Tiger is simple, but maybe not for you since you're not a part of the black community. It's not often that Blacks are portrayed in a positive way on TV unless you play basketball, music, football, or runnin from one time. When Tiger came out playin tennis and winnin, it was something new for us. There is nothing racist about that, just as there is nothing racist about someone listening to eminem and becoming a fan of hip hop. Black kids in the hood never heard of a black man playin tennis, I know i sure in the hell didn't.Oh yea, dont act like Tiger didn't want us to embrace him. If you remember when he first came out he used to always have his dad, who is black as day, with him doin most of his talking, and it seemed like it was to get Tiger a black pass. That nigga was real, and made alot of comments about Tiger being an influence on the black community.

[Shallow]

Tiger Woods doesn't owe anyone shit. It was the foolish ignorant racist pride of the African Americans that caused them to embrace him.

Are you serious? Being proud of being black, even though for years we have been told we were inferior and ignorant makes us racist?

Wow.

Damn straight I'm proud of being black. My heritage, what my ancestors have accomplishments despite overwhelming odds makes me proud.

How does me or any other black person being proud of our heritage makes us racist? You obviously have no idea what racism is. I really hope you're not this stupid.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you listen to hip hop? What do you get out of it? Do you feel it, I mean really feel what's being expressed by hip hop artists, I mean the artists the are actually speaking on some real shit?

A whole bunch of black kids and community leaders embraced him just because he was black. How is that not racist? I would say it's like white kids who only started listening to hip hop because if Em, but it was Hammer and Vanilla Ice that brought those kids in to hip hop.

The reason the black community and the kids embraced Tiger is simple, but maybe not for you since you're not a part of the black community. It's not often that Blacks are portrayed in a positive way on TV unless you play basketball, music, football, or runnin from one time. When Tiger came out playin tennis and winnin, it was something new for us. There is nothing racist about that, just as there is nothing racist about someone listening to eminem and becoming a fan of hip hop. Black kids in the hood never heard of a black man playin tennis, I know i sure in the hell didn't.Oh yea, dont act like Tiger didn't want us to embrace him. If you remember when he first came out he used to always have his dad, who is black as day, with him doin most of his talking, and it seemed like it was to get Tiger a black pass. That nigga was real, and made alot of comments about Tiger being an influence on the black community.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's nice to know the difference he made in making making you aware of Tennis, SINCE HE PLAYS GOLF! You're telling me it isn't racist and you don't even get the sport right. I don't have a problem with people who became aware of golf and now apreciate it. It's the ones that like Tiger and praise him but don't really care for the sport, or in your case don't even know what sport he plays. It's like a white guy praising Eminem and calling him the greatest rapper alive but not listening to any other hip hop. To hate some one who is a certain race is racism. To favour someone who is a certain race is also racism. I'd understand black kids being better exposed to golf because of Tiger and I'm fine with that, but it's the ones that really don't care for the sport but still praise him just because he's black that bother me. This has the possibilty to lead to other things that can cause evil. Like all the hicks (I'm specifically talking about the ones that voted for Bush and didn't study the policies). They live in the south and love Bush for who he is but don't give a shit about his policies or what he does. These are the same people that would vote for him even if he and Kerry switched policies. Who's to say the same won't happen with blacks if a black President emerges and does bad things but gets black support just because he's black. That is why I'm against it; for the sake of the principle. If you like Golf and Tiger was the reason you were exposed to it, then great. If you hate Golf but you love Tiger just because he's black and there are many like that then I worry about the future, because this could lead to much worse things. It's like those who have no problem voting against gay marriage because St. Paul called it evil. This can turn into people voting to ban homosexuality and make it a crime. Then we have all these gays in jail just because they are gay. On a personal level the homo stuff is disgusting, but it is not my place to tell them what they can and can't do, so long as no one is getting hurt.

[7even]

Nas is a bitch, Shallow is not too far off. I mean seriously, what the fuck?

Imagine a white man telling some other white dude that he's a sell-out cause he helps poor black africans in africa or something, lol... retards.

[Sikotic™]

Just drop it for christ sake.

[SGV]

Just drop it for christ sake.

Thank you! These guys are mad cuz Nas can make derogatory comments towards Blacks and they can't.

[7even]

Just drop it for christ sake.

Thank you! These guys are mad cuz Nas can make derogatory comments towards Blacks and they can't.

LMAO. If Nas dissed dudes for hanging around with latinos, eating latino food, fucking latinas, doing latino sports, etc.. would you take it as a pure diss against those black dudes, or also as a diss to latino culture and latinos as such?

[Sikotic™]

Just drop it for christ sake.

Thank you! These guys are mad cuz Nas can make derogatory comments towards Blacks and they can't.

The more and more this thread goes on, the more it seems like that.

[Shallow]

Just drop it for christ sake.

Thank you! These guys are mad cuz Nas can make derogatory comments towards Blacks and they can't.

Are you even reading my posts? This has nothing to do with "why can black people make fun of blacks but I can't?". I don't make derogatory remarks towards anyone (friendly jokes don't count, since they are not meant to be taken seriously), because it's wrong and it bothers people. This has nothing to do with fear or wishing that I could. I personally don't think anything of it when I here ignorant people of any race making racist remarks. My only problem has always been the fact that Nas claims to be above such trivial methods, but he doesn't follow up on it.

[SGV]

Just drop it for christ sake.

Thank you! These guys are mad cuz Nas can make derogatory comments towards Blacks and they can't.

The more and more this thread goes on, the more it seems like that.

Co-Sign and I got good credit.

Nas would never diss Blacks for hanging with Latinos because we go through the same struggle. Sorry...

Just drop it. Neither of you are making a point, just making yourselves look disgruntled.