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What is the metric of success for the Iraqi elections?
Ant:
The so-called liberal media for a week or so now has been chanting about the astonishing success of the iraqi elections. Yet, success is a subjective idea unless its made concrete by pre-defined metrics. I have yet to be told what our metrics actually were for the election? Is it a success because under 100 people died in one day? Was there some sort of turnout percentage we were shooting for? Does the sunni vote matter at all? Or is it a success simply because some people actually went to vote? The assertion that this election is a success simply because some people went to vote is foolish. Without predefined metrics its irresponsible spin to claim success or failure. So let's talk a little bit about what actually happened as opposed to the Bush spin on what happened on election day in Iraq.
After days of hearing the media chant the unverifiable Bush figure, that 57% percent of eligble voters turned out for this election, we finally begin learning that this number was likely overexagerated. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000788083
One would think part of the metrics for a successful election would include an informed electorate, yet the media rarely informed the american people that over half of all iraqi voters thought they were voting for a president, when in fact they were voting for a national assembly to develop a constitution.
One would think it was important that voters who turned out actually had some familiarity with the candidates, and knew clearly where the candidates stood the issues and in regards to their personal ideology. Yet leading up to the elections half a dozen candidates were assassinated. As a result, the names of most candidates were not made public until a few days before the election on web sites inaccessible to most Iraqis.
Then there is the actual issue of turnout. Now that some figures are actually coming in we are estimating that in the Al Anbar Province only 17,000 of a potential 250,000 eligible voters showed up at the pools - a 7% turnout. In Ramadi, a city with 400,000 people, only 1,700 voted. In Mosul, a city with 1.8 million people, 58,000 people turned out. And at another poll in Mosul, only 3% of those who actually voted were women.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-mosul31jan31,1,1061549.story?coll=la-news-a_section&ctrack=3&cset=true
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-ramadi31jan31,1,475153.story?coll=la-news-a_section
In the end your left with a situtation where a large number of uninformed voters, who didnt know they were voting for a national assembly and didn't know the candidates, turned out in numbers much smaller than originally reported.
The right is quick say say the left was hoping for failure. I don't think anything could be farther from the truth. Progress requires an honest acceptance of reality, and an admission of faults that need to be taken into account and corrected. The willed ignorance of the right has lead us to this point, with failure after failure, and it will continue to lead us onto further failures if the right is unwilling to stand up and face reality.
Real American:
OK, this might possibly be the dumbest post ever on Train of Thought. By what measurement are the Iraqi elections a success? How about the fact that they happened at all! Never before in the history of the world has an Arab country had national democratic elections. IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!! And not only did they happen, but 60% or so of eligible voters risked their lives to go to the poll and participare in a process that people all over the world take from granted.
What more do you want, dude? As time goes on, and democracy hopefully takes root, they will eventually build the institutions that we find in more mature democracies. In conclusion, only a bitter, defeated leftist like Ant would find something to complain about with these historic elections in Iraq. Get a life dude. You would rather have the Iraq people suffer in order to prove Bush was wrong then let oppressed people like the Iraqis experience feeedom and joy. You make me sick...
Ant:
--- Quote from: CWalker187 on February 04, 2005, 12:23:49 PM ---OK, this might possibly be the dumbest post ever on Train of Thought. By what measurement are the Iraqi elections a success? How about the fact that they happened at all! Never before in the history of the world has an Arab country had national democratic elections. IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!! And not only did they happen, but 60% or so of eligible voters risked their lives to go to the poll and participare in a process that people all over the world take from granted.
What more do you want, dude? As time goes on, and democracy hopefully takes root, they will eventually build the institutions that we find in more mature democracies. In conclusion, only a bitter, defeated leftist like Ant would find something to complain about with these historic elections in Iraq. Get a life dude. You would rather have the Iraq people suffer in order to prove Bush was wrong then let oppressed people like the Iraqis experience feeedom and joy. You make me sick...
--- End quote ---
You have a hard time reading.
1. The often used, and unverifiable number for turnout is 57%. I pointed out this figure is an overestimate - the actual number will be much lower.
2. This is not the first time an arab country has had democratic elections. Palestine recently had elections.
3. Conservatives historically oppose nation-building of course you and your fellow bush-supporters aren't really conservative, your merely republican.
4. After killing, or severely injuring over 100,000 Iraqi civilians over a war that was not of their choice, the least we can do, as compassionate individuals (which you seem to think you are) is show some honest humility when addressing the situation in Iraq so that we can proceed in as intelligent a manner as possible and truly look out for the best interests of America and the Iraqi People. Blindly repeating nonsensical rhetoric is not compassionate, and if there are real problems in iraq we should not arrogantly dismiss them by refusing to critically consider reality. If you cared about the iraqi people or the sustained prosperity of the american public you wouldn't be afraid of opinions that conflict with your own worldview.
5. That's all I'm going to bother saying because you obviously have a hard time with reading comprehension. Re-read my original post again for more.
Ant:
After hearing the conservative owned media for days now report about the success of the Iraqi elections, stories like this remained buried and unreported.
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BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents in pickup trucks attacked a police station south of Baghdad late Sunday, prompting an hourlong gunfight that killed 22 Iraqi security forces and 14 attackers, a police official said.
The clash broke out about 10:30 p.m. in Mahawil, 50 miles south of Baghdad, police Capt. Muthana Khalid Ali told The Associated Press by telephone.
Ali said five Iraqi national guardsmen and 17 police were killed and 18 security personnel were wounded. He said the attackers used automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades before withdrawing under fire.
Mahawil is in a mixed area of Shiite and Sunni Muslims.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack
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And CWalker, anytime you want to come clean about the stupidity of your original post feel free.
Thirteen:
i'd say the metric of success is people risking their life trying to accomplish something better without resorting to violence
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