Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
Out of all players compared to Jordan, which do you think is the closest?
M Dogg™:
Carter had every single given tool to have been great, but he was not the most physically gifted basketball player I've ever seen. But Carter did have a better jump shot than Kobe or Michael coming into the league, and I think had he worked on his skill as a young player like he does now, he could have been a top 10 player all time. He was a most physically gifted athlete than Kobe or Michael, but he just didn't add the fundamentals until his skill level dropped. Young Vince Carter with old Vince Carter skill set could have been a great player.
I think at the end of the day, Kobe has won this argument of closest player to Jordan. Since the 60's, only 2 players have averaged 35ppg in a season, Kobe and Michael. I think Kobe's downfall is he didn't go to college, so his career stats are very inconsistent early in his career, and then later he had more mileage to his stats are not as good as Jordan at the same age. I think the coming out of high school experiment hurt some players more than others, and for Kobe he had a top 5 career but he could have been better had he went to college for 1-2 years. With that said, had he not came straight out of high school, then the Hornets wouldn't have given up his draft rights for Vlade Divac. So at the end of the day, it worked out for the Lakers.
Sccit:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 15, 2013, 02:12:18 PM ---Carter had every single given tool to have been great, but he was not the most physically gifted basketball player I've ever seen. But Carter did have a better jump shot than Kobe or Michael coming into the league, and I think had he worked on his skill as a young player like he does now, he could have been a top 10 player all time. He was a most physically gifted athlete than Kobe or Michael, but he just didn't add the fundamentals until his skill level dropped. Young Vince Carter with old Vince Carter skill set could have been a great player.
I think at the end of the day, Kobe has won this argument of closest player to Jordan. Since the 60's, only 2 players have averaged 35ppg in a season, Kobe and Michael. I think Kobe's downfall is he didn't go to college, so his career stats are very inconsistent early in his career, and then later he had more mileage to his stats are not as good as Jordan at the same age. I think the coming out of high school experiment hurt some players more than others, and for Kobe he had a top 5 career but he could have been better had he went to college for 1-2 years. With that said, had he not came straight out of high school, then the Hornets wouldn't have given up his draft rights for Vlade Divac. So at the end of the day, it worked out for the Lakers.
--- End quote ---
better jump-shot than michael, yes, dunno about kobe, tho...dont forget, kobe had a refined jump-shot comin in, not like mike, who had to develop his. kobe shot 38% from three and 82% from the line in his rookie season..vince? just 28% and 76%... no offense, mdoggy, but sometimes i think u say shit just to say shit. it will help u a lot in life (not just dubcc) if u say shit from knowledge as opposed to just passing off randomized speculation as fact.....anyways, i truly believe kobe still has one more chapter left to be written. the way it unfolds will determine where he ranks on the all-time list....he's already a clear-cut first-tier player. but if everything goes as planned, he will add to his legacy, secure a couple more titles, break the all-time scoring record, and retire as GOAT 8)
M Dogg™:
--- Quote from: NIKCC on April 15, 2013, 02:26:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 15, 2013, 02:12:18 PM ---Carter had every single given tool to have been great, but he was not the most physically gifted basketball player I've ever seen. But Carter did have a better jump shot than Kobe or Michael coming into the league, and I think had he worked on his skill as a young player like he does now, he could have been a top 10 player all time. He was a most physically gifted athlete than Kobe or Michael, but he just didn't add the fundamentals until his skill level dropped. Young Vince Carter with old Vince Carter skill set could have been a great player.
I think at the end of the day, Kobe has won this argument of closest player to Jordan. Since the 60's, only 2 players have averaged 35ppg in a season, Kobe and Michael. I think Kobe's downfall is he didn't go to college, so his career stats are very inconsistent early in his career, and then later he had more mileage to his stats are not as good as Jordan at the same age. I think the coming out of high school experiment hurt some players more than others, and for Kobe he had a top 5 career but he could have been better had he went to college for 1-2 years. With that said, had he not came straight out of high school, then the Hornets wouldn't have given up his draft rights for Vlade Divac. So at the end of the day, it worked out for the Lakers.
--- End quote ---
better jump-shot than michael, yes, dunno about kobe, tho...dont forget, kobe had a refined jump-shot comin in, not like mike, who had to develop his. kobe shot 38% from three and 82% from the line in his rookie season..vince? just 28% and 76%... no offense, mdoggy, but sometimes i think u say shit just to say shit. it will help u a lot in life (not just dubcc) if u say shit from knowledge as opposed to just passing off randomized speculation as fact.....anyways, i truly believe kobe still has one more chapter left to be written. the way it unfolds will determine where he ranks on the all-time list....he's already a clear-cut first-tier player. but if everything goes as planned, he will add to his legacy, secure a couple more titles, break the all-time scoring record, and retire as GOAT 8)
--- End quote ---
You must remember one thing. Jordan came into the league shooting over 50%, Kobe 41.7% and Carter 45%. So statistically, both Jordan and Carter both shot a higher percentage than Kobe. In fact, I'd say Kobe was the worst jump shooter of the 3 coming into the league well Jordan was over 50% because he played closer to the rim that year. The next year Jordan came back to earth shooting 45.7% because people pushed him out of the lane more and VC shot 46.5% his second year as he was able to get to the rim more and his shoot started falling. Kobe second year, 42.8%. Coming out of HS hurt Kobe's early stats greatly, and that has to be acknowledged when you say coming into the league. Now Jordan was 21 coming into the league, VC was 22, so Kobe at 22 was shooting 46.6%, which is better than both at the age of 22. Still, coming into the league, Kobe was the worst of the 3 when it comes to shooting, jump shot and other areas of skill measuring.
Remember, Kobe at 22 was already a 4 year vet.
Remedy360:
--- Quote from: Mietek23 on April 15, 2013, 01:40:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Remedy360 on April 15, 2013, 11:37:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mietek23 on April 15, 2013, 09:02:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: Remedy360 on April 15, 2013, 04:07:11 AM ---VC probably coulda gone down as the greatest ever if he had the same kinda work ethic of the Kobe/Jordan type.
--- End quote ---
I don't think so. He had the greatest hoops of all the players I saw, but he didn't had the basketball fundamentals Jordan and Bryant had. Plus he was nowhere near them as far as defense goes (specially MJ). Still, he was and is the greatest dunker of all-time. Hands down.
--- End quote ---
Yeah but I feel like a lot of that has to do with effort and studying the game as opposed to the god given talent he had.
--- End quote ---
Partly, yes. Actually, Vince had a better jumpshot coming to the NBA than Michael. But he made a basic mistake, most of today's athlete's are making - he didn't worked on his basketball skills enough. He just based on his athleticism, and was jumping over guys left and right. Jordan on the other hand was always trying to turn his weaknesses into strenghts and Kobe followed into his footsteps by doing the same and working hard.
--- End quote ---
That's really what I was getting at. Like NIK said you could probably make the case for a lot of freakish athletes, VC was just so blessed and it seems like he threw a lot of it away (was still one of my favorites to watch though).
Sccit:
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 15, 2013, 03:02:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: NIKCC on April 15, 2013, 02:26:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: M Dogg on April 15, 2013, 02:12:18 PM ---Carter had every single given tool to have been great, but he was not the most physically gifted basketball player I've ever seen. But Carter did have a better jump shot than Kobe or Michael coming into the league, and I think had he worked on his skill as a young player like he does now, he could have been a top 10 player all time. He was a most physically gifted athlete than Kobe or Michael, but he just didn't add the fundamentals until his skill level dropped. Young Vince Carter with old Vince Carter skill set could have been a great player.
I think at the end of the day, Kobe has won this argument of closest player to Jordan. Since the 60's, only 2 players have averaged 35ppg in a season, Kobe and Michael. I think Kobe's downfall is he didn't go to college, so his career stats are very inconsistent early in his career, and then later he had more mileage to his stats are not as good as Jordan at the same age. I think the coming out of high school experiment hurt some players more than others, and for Kobe he had a top 5 career but he could have been better had he went to college for 1-2 years. With that said, had he not came straight out of high school, then the Hornets wouldn't have given up his draft rights for Vlade Divac. So at the end of the day, it worked out for the Lakers.
--- End quote ---
better jump-shot than michael, yes, dunno about kobe, tho...dont forget, kobe had a refined jump-shot comin in, not like mike, who had to develop his. kobe shot 38% from three and 82% from the line in his rookie season..vince? just 28% and 76%... no offense, mdoggy, but sometimes i think u say shit just to say shit. it will help u a lot in life (not just dubcc) if u say shit from knowledge as opposed to just passing off randomized speculation as fact.....anyways, i truly believe kobe still has one more chapter left to be written. the way it unfolds will determine where he ranks on the all-time list....he's already a clear-cut first-tier player. but if everything goes as planned, he will add to his legacy, secure a couple more titles, break the all-time scoring record, and retire as GOAT 8)
--- End quote ---
You must remember one thing. Jordan came into the league shooting over 50%, Kobe 41.7% and Carter 45%. So statistically, both Jordan and Carter both shot a higher percentage than Kobe. In fact, I'd say Kobe was the wor st jump shooter of the 3 coming into the league well Jordan was over 50% because he played closer to the rim that year. The next year Jordan came back to earth shooting 45.7% because people pushed him out of the lane more and VC shot 46.5% his second year as he was able to get to the rim more and his shoot started falling. Kobe second year, 42.8%. Coming out of HS hurt Kobe's early stats greatly, and that has to be acknowledged when you say coming into the league. Now Jordan was 21 coming into the league, VC was 22, so Kobe at 22 was shooting 46.6%, which is better than both at the age of 22. Still, coming into the league, Kobe was the worst of the 3 when it comes to shooting, jump shot and other areas of skill measuring.
Remember, Kobe at 22 was already a 4 year vet.
--- End quote ---
thats exactly the point...jump-shooters naturally shoot lower percentages. kobe shot way more jumpshots than vince or mj as a rookie, because he was a more refined jumpshooter comin in. this really aint debatable, u just looked up the stats and came up wit that shit to sound like u know what u talkin bout, but it is what it is. now, to say "far worse", now u just stretchin it to save face, and it's backfirin. that shit aint true at all, my dude. just go look at old rookie kobe videos, even back in summer league debut, he always had a pure stroke. kobe's stroke as a rookie was wayyy more pure than jordan's, and a couple of notches above VC's, as well.
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