Out of all players compared to Jordan, which do you think is the closest?

[M Dogg™]

You do know you are talking to someone who saw Kobe more in the 90's than all of the 2000's? Afterall, I never missed a game from 1994-2000 when I went to college. I know Kobe's early game, and Kobe's early game was simular to Jordan's in that he was a slashing player who shot. Kobe was not a pure jump shooter coming into the league. His rookie and second year, his jump shot was inconsistent at best. But this was masked because Eddie Jones started the 2 spot, and Kobe would come in and then slash to the lane and then shoot a couple of jumpers. Kobe would come in, slash through the lane and make a nice lay up, hit 1 of 3 from the 3 point range (usually that 3 was like from 40 feet out it seemed) and throw a lop to Shaq for a dunk. If you want to say Kobe started out with a better jump shot than Jordan, that's debatable but not crazy. Still, coming out of high school, I think, was a bad idea in that Kobe was far from a finished produced then. He had the skill and the ability, but he was highly inconsistent and very streaky.

Now as I said, Carter needed a year to fully adjust to the NBA (lock out year), and while it took Kobe about 3-4 years to become the Kobe we all know and love, Carter was shooting over 40% from 3 point range in his second and 3rd year. Because Carter went all 4 years to college, he came out more "NBA Ready" were as Kobe was still "a work in progress." This is why Carter took off faster than Kobe and people believed the hype about VC>Kobe so quickly. Sports people are very, "what I see is what will happen forever." So they saw a 22 year old fully developed VC that was playing better than a 20 year old "work in progress" Kobe. Dude, there is no shame in admitting Carter came in with a better jumper. Kobe was FUCKEN 18 YEARS OLD. Kobe was inconsistent, Kobe shot air balls a lot, not just those 4 in Utah. Kobe was a cocky kid who was not ready from prime time yet. He was made to look better because Eddie Jones took the important minutes and Kobe would come in and  do his thing. Maybe Kobe had a better looking jump shot, maybe it had "more potential" or maybe his jump shot has better form. But at 18, 19 and even 20 Kobe was really inconsistent with it and he even shot a horrible 26% from 3 point range his 3rd year.

But come on NIKCC, you know like I know, 18 year old Kobe was not as polished as 22 year old VC or 21 year old Jordan. You know Kobe was very inconsistent at 18, 19, and 20 and that use to piss people in LA off when he'd try to take over games and fail. It wasn't until 2000 that he finally caught on and in 2001 he fully because the Kobe that we'd remember. Ironically enough, 1999-2000 Kobe would have been a senior at Duke, and 2000-2001 Kobe would have a rookie in the NBA and at 28ppg and 46.4% from the field he easily would have been rookie of the year over Mike Miller. I think he would have came out after his Jr. year really, and that Kobe was still very dangerous at 22.5ppg and 46.8% from the field, with also 6rpg and 4 apg. Steve Francis wouldn't have had a chance. But that's NOT the Kobe we are talking about.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gfBwH6W8GKs?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/gfBwH6W8GKs?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3&amp;amp;rel=0</a>

You make it sound like Kobe was drafted great. As this video will show, in order to become great Kobe had to fail. And in the 1997 playoffs, he failed HARD! And trust me, that was not unique to just that game.

[Sccit]

i'm not talkin about overall...i know VC and MJ were more polished players as rookies. i'm just talkin about the stroke...kobe always had a pure stroke, comin in, it was a text-book shot, unlike MJ or VC...like i said, not debatable. yea, VC and MJ as rookies were more NBA ready, better physiques, more polished from college experience...but as far as straight jumper, come on, brobro...rookie kobe already had the same shot he has today...check kobe at 17, first game as a Laker:


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-0M0Hmy_78E" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-0M0Hmy_78E</a>

[Sccit]

jumpshot was already refined comin in

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8aBX3lRBHKA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/8aBX3lRBHKA</a>

look at that textbook stroke...most of em dont even hit the rim.

[M Dogg™]

i'm not talkin about overall...i know VC and MJ were more polished players as rookies. i'm just talkin about the stroke...kobe always had a pure stroke, comin in, it was a text-book shot, unlike MJ or VC...like i said, not debatable. yea, VC and MJ as rookies were more NBA ready, better physiques, more polished from college experience...but as far as straight jumper, come on, brobro...rookie kobe already had the same shot he has today...check kobe at 17, first game as a Laker:


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-0M0Hmy_78E" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-0M0Hmy_78E</a>

See, you are judging by form and all of that. I am judging off consistency. 18 year old Kobe was very inconsistent and very streaky. Kobe had a hard time shooting over 40% and he had games were he looked like the next coming of Jordan and other games when he looked like a kid who'll never learn. Carter was consistent his first year, therefore he had a better jump shot. Bottom line, the rock goes in the hole, you have a better jump shot.

[Sccit]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 28% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

[M Dogg™]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

[Sccit]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

yea, in his second season LOL...in his rookie season, which is what were debating about, he didn't come in with a text-book jumpshot and shot a bad percentage. i have no idea why ur tryin so hard wit this one. just look at the free throw percentages, it's the best way to see how refined a stroke is...VC shot under 80% for his first 4 years in the league. his mechanics were not textbook. quit arguin this shit, cuz it's just stupid as fuc

[M Dogg™]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

yea, in his second season LOL...in his rookie season, which is what were debating about, he didn't come in with a text-book jumpshot and shot a bad percentage. i have no idea why ur tryin so hard wit this one. just look at the free throw percentages, it's the best way to see how refined a stroke is...VC shot under 80% for his first 4 years in the league. his mechanics were not textbook. quit arguin this shit, cuz it's just stupid as fuc

But he hit for a higher percentage from the field, and he has always had a mid-range shot. His mechanics may not have been text-book, but he was more consistent that Kobe. Why is this so hard to get through your head. Kobe was streaky, inconsistent and had bad weeks much less bad games as a rookie.

[Sccit]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

yea, in his second season LOL...in his rookie season, which is what were debating about, he didn't come in with a text-book jumpshot and shot a bad percentage. i have no idea why ur tryin so hard wit this one. just look at the free throw percentages, it's the best way to see how refined a stroke is...VC shot under 80% for his first 4 years in the league. his mechanics were not textbook. quit arguin this shit, cuz it's just stupid as fuc

But he hit for a higher percentage from the field, and he has always had a mid-range shot. His mechanics may not have been text-book, but he was more consistent that Kobe. Why is this so hard to get through your head. Kobe was streaky, inconsistent and had bad weeks much less bad games as a rookie.

WHAT PERCENTAGE U SHOOT FROM THE FIELD DOES IN NO WAY DEPICT HOW GOOD UR STROKE IS...LIKE I SAID, PEEP THE FREE THROW PERCENTAGES, A MUCH BETTER MEASURING STICK, AND DEAD THIS DISCUSSION. KOBE HAD A BETTER SHOT COMIN IN- NOT A BETTER PLAYER, BUT BETTER MECHANICS, FORM, RELEASE ON HIS STROKE. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GET THROUGH YOUR HEAD? U TRYIN REAL HARD 2 WIN A LOST DEBATE, BAD LOOK. THIS HAS NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOW GOOD HE IS AS A PLAYER, THERE ARE CATS WHO BALL AT THE LOCAL GYM WHO HAVE BETTER STROKES THAN 90% OF THE CATS IN THE LEAGUE.......POINT IS, VC DIDNT HAVE A REFIND SHOT OR GREAT MECHANICS AS A ROOKIE...KOBE DID.

KOBES PROBLEM AS A ROOKIE WAS THAT HE WASNT NBA READY, FROM BODY TO MATURITY....NOTHIN TO DO WIT THE ACTUAL STROKE, WHICH WAS THE SAME AS IT IS TODAY. QUIT ARGUIN THE OBVIOUS, MY BOY.

[M Dogg™]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

yea, in his second season LOL...in his rookie season, which is what were debating about, he didn't come in with a text-book jumpshot and shot a bad percentage. i have no idea why ur tryin so hard wit this one. just look at the free throw percentages, it's the best way to see how refined a stroke is...VC shot under 80% for his first 4 years in the league. his mechanics were not textbook. quit arguin this shit, cuz it's just stupid as fuc

But he hit for a higher percentage from the field, and he has always had a mid-range shot. His mechanics may not have been text-book, but he was more consistent that Kobe. Why is this so hard to get through your head. Kobe was streaky, inconsistent and had bad weeks much less bad games as a rookie.

WHAT PERCENTAGE U SHOOT FROM THE FIELD DOES IN NO WAY DEPICT HOW GOOD UR STROKE IS...LIKE I SAID, PEEP THE FREE THROW PERCENTAGES, A MUCH BETTER MEASURING STICK, AND DEAD THIS DISCUSSION. KOBE HAD A BETTER SHOT COMIN IN- NOT A BETTER PLAYER, BUT BETTER MECHANICS, FORM, RELEASE ON HIS STROKE. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GET THROUGH YOUR HEAD? U TRYIN REAL HARD 2 WIN A LOST DEBATE, BAD LOOK. THIS HAS NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOW GOOD HE IS AS A PLAYER, THERE ARE CATS WHO BALL AT THE LOCAL GYM WHO HAVE BETTER STROKES THAN 90% OF THE CATS IN THE LEAGUE.......POINT IS, VC DIDNT HAVE A REFIND SHOT OR GREAT MECHANICS AS A ROOKIE...KOBE DID.

KOBES PROBLEM WAS NOT BEING NBA READY, FROM BODY TO MATURITY....NOTHIN TO DO WIT THE ACTUAL STROKE, WHICH WAS THE SAME AS IT IS TODAY. QUIT ARGUIN THE OBVIOUS, MY BOY.

All caps. oh no.

Dogg, inconsistency is what you judge a shot off of. Kobe had a nice stroke, he obviously matured into a better shooter than VC. But coming into the league, VC was better from the field. Case close. I'm done with this. It's cool to be a Kobe fan, but you take this shit to personal.

[M Dogg™]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

yea, in his second season LOL...in his rookie season, which is what were debating about, he didn't come in with a text-book jumpshot and shot a bad percentage. i have no idea why ur tryin so hard wit this one. just look at the free throw percentages, it's the best way to see how refined a stroke is...VC shot under 80% for his first 4 years in the league. his mechanics were not textbook. quit arguin this shit, cuz it's just stupid as fuc

But he hit for a higher percentage from the field, and he has always had a mid-range shot. His mechanics may not have been text-book, but he was more consistent that Kobe. Why is this so hard to get through your head. Kobe was streaky, inconsistent and had bad weeks much less bad games as a rookie.

WHAT PERCENTAGE U SHOOT FROM THE FIELD DOES IN NO WAY DEPICT HOW GOOD UR STROKE IS...LIKE I SAID, PEEP THE FREE THROW PERCENTAGES, A MUCH BETTER MEASURING STICK, AND DEAD THIS DISCUSSION. KOBE HAD A BETTER SHOT COMIN IN- NOT A BETTER PLAYER, BUT BETTER MECHANICS, FORM, RELEASE ON HIS STROKE. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GET THROUGH YOUR HEAD? U TRYIN REAL HARD 2 WIN A LOST DEBATE, BAD LOOK. THIS HAS NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOW GOOD HE IS AS A PLAYER, THERE ARE CATS WHO BALL AT THE LOCAL GYM WHO HAVE BETTER STROKES THAN 90% OF THE CATS IN THE LEAGUE.......POINT IS, VC DIDNT HAVE A REFIND SHOT OR GREAT MECHANICS AS A ROOKIE...KOBE DID.

KOBES PROBLEM AS A ROOKIE WAS THAT HE WASNT NBA READY, FROM BODY TO MATURITY....NOTHIN TO DO WIT THE ACTUAL STROKE, WHICH WAS THE SAME AS IT IS TODAY. QUIT ARGUIN THE OBVIOUS, MY BOY.

And a free throw is not a jump shot.

[Sccit]

A FREE THROW IS THE BEST WAY TO DEPICT FORM.. ANY COACH WILL TELL U THIS. KOBE HAD A BETTER SHOT COMIN IN, PERIOD.

[Sccit]

LOOK AT THE MECHANICS

THERE WAS NOTHIN CONSISTENT ABOUT CARTER'S STROKE COMIN IN...HE SHOT 26% FROM THREE AND 76% FROM THE FREE THROW...KOBE SHOT 38% FROM THREE AND 82% FROM THE FREE THROW


fall back

Ha ha ha, Carter came in during the lock out shorten season. Most of his inconsistencies from 3 came because of learning the NBA system. But he hit 40% in his first two whole NBA seasons. You ain't got nothing on this argument man. Carter hit more shots, was more consistent and when given a full training camp hit over 40% from 3. Something Kobe NEVER did in his career.

"You're paranoid cause you're my son like Elroy"

yea, in his second season LOL...in his rookie season, which is what were debating about, he didn't come in with a text-book jumpshot and shot a bad percentage. i have no idea why ur tryin so hard wit this one. just look at the free throw percentages, it's the best way to see how refined a stroke is...VC shot under 80% for his first 4 years in the league. his mechanics were not textbook. quit arguin this shit, cuz it's just stupid as fuc

But he hit for a higher percentage from the field, and he has always had a mid-range shot. His mechanics may not have been text-book, but he was more consistent that Kobe. Why is this so hard to get through your head. Kobe was streaky, inconsistent and had bad weeks much less bad games as a rookie.

WHAT PERCENTAGE U SHOOT FROM THE FIELD DOES IN NO WAY DEPICT HOW GOOD UR STROKE IS...LIKE I SAID, PEEP THE FREE THROW PERCENTAGES, A MUCH BETTER MEASURING STICK, AND DEAD THIS DISCUSSION. KOBE HAD A BETTER SHOT COMIN IN- NOT A BETTER PLAYER, BUT BETTER MECHANICS, FORM, RELEASE ON HIS STROKE. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GET THROUGH YOUR HEAD? U TRYIN REAL HARD 2 WIN A LOST DEBATE, BAD LOOK. THIS HAS NOTHIN TO DO WIT HOW GOOD HE IS AS A PLAYER, THERE ARE CATS WHO BALL AT THE LOCAL GYM WHO HAVE BETTER STROKES THAN 90% OF THE CATS IN THE LEAGUE.......POINT IS, VC DIDNT HAVE A REFIND SHOT OR GREAT MECHANICS AS A ROOKIE...KOBE DID.

KOBES PROBLEM WAS NOT BEING NBA READY, FROM BODY TO MATURITY....NOTHIN TO DO WIT THE ACTUAL STROKE, WHICH WAS THE SAME AS IT IS TODAY. QUIT ARGUIN THE OBVIOUS, MY BOY.

All caps. oh no.

Dogg, inconsistency is what you judge a shot off of. Kobe had a nice stroke, he obviously matured into a better shooter than VC. But coming into the league, VC was better from the field. Case close. I'm done with this. It's cool to be a Kobe fan, but you take this shit to personal.

I BEEN USIN CAPS LOCK ON AND OFF FOR THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS, DONT GET 2 EXCITED, LOL...THIS HAS NOTHIN TO DO WIT BEIN A KOBE FAN, I JUST DONT LIKE SEEIN U ALWAYS SPEW OFF RANDOM BULLSHIT AS FACT, WHEN IT'S WIDELY ACCEPTED THAT KOBE HAD A WAYYY BETTER STROKE THAN MJ AS A ROOKIE, AND A CLEAR-CUT BETTER SHOT THAN VC AS WELL...NOW, HAVIN A GOOD SHOT DONT MEAN U GUNA SHOOT GOOD FROM THE FIELD. BUT AS FAR AS TEXTBOOK, FORM, MECHANICS, FOLLOW-THROUGH, ALL THAT SHIET, IT'S KOBE HANDS DOWN....SAYIN OTHERWISE IS EQUIVALENT TO SAYIN PAU GASOL IS A BETTER REBOUNDER THAN DENNIS RODMAN...FEEL ME ON THAT

[Hack Wilson - real]

how come you don't post Kobe's low-lights?  anyone can post high lights to make a point

[M Dogg™]

how come you don't post Kobe's low-lights?  anyone can post high lights to make a point

No one saves low lights, but during his rookie year Kobe had a few. Most remember the Utah airballs. But he would go a week where he's shot was not falling, and then go a week where he would shot over 50%. Kobe was inconsistent, and consistency is one of the best measures to judge fundamentals. If you have good fundamentals, then you'd be consistent. If you don't have good fundamentals, then you will be streaky. And 18, 19, 20 year old Kobe was very streaky.