Lifestyle > Train of Thought
The Myth Of White Superiority
nibs:
Shallow:
So when Saddam killed off al the Kurds, it was the US's fault?
saddam certainly did not kill off all the kurds. saddam had kurds in his administration. additionally, saddam did not even gas the kurds. the iranians gassed the kurds when they gassed a town during a battle and then blamed that on saddam.
second, i never suggested that the u.s. was responsible for saddam's actions. iraq is a problem that britain is more responsible for.
Or when Turkey killed 2 million Armenians in a Holocaust it was the West way of thinking that was reason?
you are creating strawman arguments to knock down. neither i, nor akbar, ever suggested that everything non-western was perfect. i specifically stated in my last post:
now, i certainly don't think akbar was trying to say that every non western culture was roses; they clearly weren't and aren't.
your examples are inconsistent with my position, and are misrepresenting my position. you are not even adressing the underlying argument here. the argument is that western values and culture are of little utility and have accomlished very little. western culture and values have been a destructive influence globally.
you have not even attempted to argue that point, your response has been solely that "other nations have also done ill". re-read the original quote. akbar is not saying "every culture other than european culture and value is good". that is not his position, that is not my position. what akbar is saying is that european culture is useless and has stifled human [and spiritual] development
The fault lies in the human mind and the stupidity that plagues.
fault lies with european culture and values. that's the point of the argument akbar was making. fault may lie elsewhere, noone is disagreeing there.
Even great thinkers like Confuscious felt women were not good enough to walk on the same side of the road
the equality of women is a separate issue from human development. you are looking at this problem incorrectly. this is not an issue of wrongs, it's an issue of rights. akbar is pointing out that european culture and values have not promoted the right type of development. it's not my intent to defend confucius (as he is another of your strawmen); but you shouldn't question "what has confucius done wrong", but "has cunfucius done the right things in terms of promoting human development that european culture has failed to do. and the answer there is going to be yes. and with the egyptians that you also mentioned, again the answer there is yes.
Egypt had slaves to build their great pyramids.
we can argue about how egyptian treatment of slaves was nowhere near as abhorrant as the european slavery as demonstrated in the u.s. for example. how those individuals were oft assimilated into the egyptian society and often given full rights and such after a period. egypt doesn't have the track record of segregation as the u.s. does. but this isn't an argument about "the greatest evils", which with american slavery, hitler and the holocaust, the nuking of civilian cities hiroshima and nagasaki....are going to be european as well...
this is more a question of culture and values. and the ancient egyptian culture was certainly more spiritual and promoted human development to an extent unparalleled in western culture.
Also, communism was never prominant in western culture.
it's a western philosophy. capitalism is another western philosophy that has many of the same flaws in the context of this argument.
Russia was quite diffrent from the rest of Europe.
eastern russia is often considered a part of europe. communism didn't start in russia anyway so i'm not sure why you are arguing that.
i'm not sure why you are trying to redefine this argument to some sort of comparison of wrongs and evils, rather than either defending what akbar is calling flaws in western culture and values, or attacking the actual attributes of civilization that akbar is praising. you've done neither. akbar never said "everything non european is perfect" so i'm not sure why you are trying to make that argument. it's an irrelevant argument.
Shallow:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look man, my argument was never with the original quote that started this post. It was with Infinite and his constant attempts to make white westerner's seem like the root of all evil. My post was only written to show that evil exists outside the west, and predates western influence. As for the quote itself; I think Akbar is generalizing way too much, and in some cases is just plain wrong. Slavery was not introduced with the western way of live. Cruelty also comes long before western development.
Do western values and culture prove useless when it comes to progressing humanity? I don't think so personally. Freedom of speech, religion, and healthcare (in some countries), I think is a great accomplishment. Democracy, even with it's faults is far better than monarchy, or dictatorship, in my opinion. Death penatlies have been abolished in many of the western countries. Morality before culture is greatly stressed.
I live in Canada and I can't imagine living under better circumstances in any other country else currently on this planet. Here you are free to preach what you like, so long as it doesn't incite violence or hate. You are allowed to choose what you believe in and are protected by law to believe in it. There are many different lifestyles and cultures you can be a part of. It isn't all 9 to 5 office work that leads to lesser developed countries being milked dry. If you wanted to live off the land and in the wilderness, there'd be few people looking for you and forcing you to get back in line. Obviously we are far from perfect but I find it hard to believe that humanity was far better off before the west began conquering. Moslty because I don't belive that Greece was the first nation to expand, and ancient Greece is the beginning of Western Development in most historian's minds. If you know of one before then feel free to share.
Just Another Sunny day in California:
--- Quote from: Mullah Nasrudin on March 26, 2005, 11:02:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Cant C Me on March 26, 2005, 10:51:18 PM ---
Many would argue that Mexico really didn't lose the Mexican-American War because We (mexicans) have taken back much of our land back as you can see
--- End quote ---
This is off subject, but you know your signature is actually a Rakim quote that 2pac bit off of. Not out of disrespect, but as a tribute to Rakim.
--- End quote ---
It's from Pac's song "Got My Mind Made Up" and i've heard of more people who have also use that line, Run DMC used it before so what's your point?
Thirteen:
--- Quote from: Trauma on March 27, 2005, 03:13:53 PM ---Kill Whitey!
--- End quote ---
Wannabe Black Power
ecrazy:
--- Quote from: Needles Kane on March 27, 2005, 08:13:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Trauma on March 27, 2005, 03:13:53 PM ---Kill Whitey!
--- End quote ---
Wannabe Black Power
--- End quote ---
No, Thats Infinite
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