Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment
PS3 vs X-Box 360 (specs)
Don Seer:
--- Quote from: Jome on May 18, 2005, 05:16:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Overseer on May 18, 2005, 11:15:39 AM ---Sony's RAM is NOT better.. they have the same speed stuff but half as much..
how is half of the same damn thing BETTER?
--- End quote ---
How do they got half as much, it's 2x256 = 512 = same amount as XBox, except that 256 of it is XDR RAM. ??
I'm no RAM expert, but I have yet to see a article that doesn't say that XDR is not faster/better than GDDR.
You say ps3 has half as much dedicated video memory, but what's the remaining 256 for then.. ???
--- End quote ---
the other 256 is system memory..
this means programs and game data structures are kept here while the other (faster) 256 is used for graphics.
PS3 is following the model PCs use for memory management where video cards have seperate memory.
this means all video data first needs to pass from system memory to video memory
i already tried to explain that writes = bad.
with microsofts solution all memory is directly accessible by everthing
tthey made things flexible by having 512 addressable memory
the programmer then decides what he uses that memory for themselves.
i will break it down in three cases so you may understand more.
i added a speed rating for each phase
reads from disk = slower
writes to memory = slow
reads from memory = fast (all reads from xbox memory, reads from PS3 system memory)
reads from memory = faster (reads from PS3 video memory)
first case when a texture needed right _now_ is loaded already in video memory from disk
in both cases..
PS3 > read from vid memory -> GPU (faster)
XBOX > read from dual purpose memory -> GPU (fast)
conclusion: PS3. this is purely down to the slight advantage in speed PS3 has.
_however_ microsoft has much much more space to store things here which other cases will highlight.
for small less complex, less texture rich scenes PS3 can outperform in memory speed..
AND this doesnt take into account the nvidia vs ATI battle beyond that..
if ATI has better texture compression.. it narrows the gap more
second take the case when a texture needed _now_ is loaded from disk in both cases.
this is whats happening when your harddisk/cdrom/dvdrom access slows down a game.
PS3 = read from disk (slower) into system memory (slow), then write into video memory( slow) then read (faster)
Xbox = read from disk (slower) into dual purpose memory (slow), then read (fast) by GPU
notice one write step is removed with xbox?
writes will be slower than the speed difference between the faster memory on the PS3
this won't happen more on either system.. unlike the case 3.
conclusion : Xbox wins.
third take the case when a texture needed _now_ is already loaded from disk in both cases but not in vid memory i.e. for use later 'pre-caching'
this will be something like a texture thats used rarely in a scene
3a) the load stage..
PS3 = read from disk (slower) into system memory (slow)
Xbox = read from disk (slower) into dual purpose memory (slow)
result: no difference between the two.
3b) the use it stage..
PS3 = read from system memory(fast) into vid memory (slow) read by GPU (faster)
XBOX = read from dual memory by GPU (fast)
result: xbox wins. they removed the need for a write here.. this kicks ass!
Thirteen:
there was already an article i posted a few months back saying how blu ray....the way it exists now is not going to be the same when the blu ray people and HD DVD people decide on a format... they are mixing the two formats in a way neither side has chosen yet and i don't think it would be feasible to think that a console that is a few months from going into mass production will be compatible with a format that hasn't even came out yet...
this makes Blu ray disk burner a almost useless added feature
Jome:
Thanks for the info Seer.. 8)
However, I think a lot will depend on the old ATI vs. nVidia battle, personally I've been a ATI-fan for a long time, after a lot of problems with nVidia..
ATI says their new dual-GFX chip for PC's will be 2.5 faster than nVidia's fastest dual-chip setup, it's gonna be interesting to see how 360 vs. PS3 turns out, but I bet we'll have to wait a while for a game really pushing the consoles potential..
--- Quote from: Needles Kane on May 19, 2005, 06:04:39 PM ---there was already an article i posted a few months back saying how blu ray....the way it exists now is not going to be the same when the blu ray people and HD DVD people decide on a format... they are mixing the two formats in a way neither side has chosen yet and i don't think it would be feasible to think that a console that is a few months from going into mass production will be compatible with a format that hasn't even came out yet...
this makes Blu ray disk burner a almost useless added feature
--- End quote ---
Well, the Matsushita (Panasonic) boss recently said that Toshiba must back down, and that BluRay will become the next big standard..
There's already BluRay players available, and the *potential* HD-DVD/BluRay combo players will most likely be compatible with existing players..
Obviously, it wouldn't be a wise choice to spend $2000 on a BluRay player at this time, but I bet they've decided the standards a good while before PS3 comes out, most likely there will be players/burners in stores by then as well, at better prices..
I remember hearing the same when DVD's came out.. "Oh, they will never have a chance against VCR, VCR is too big and powerful, DVD-players are way too expensive, they haven't decided on the +/-/RAM format yet" etc.. ;D
BluRay is backed by Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, Zenith, Hewlett Packard, Apple, EA Games/Arts, while HD-DVD is only backed by Toshiba, NEC, Sharp, Sanyo, and some other minor companies, I'd be very surprised if BluRay lose out to HD-DVD..
Thirteen:
like i said....how can sony develop a console compatible with encryption that hasn't even been finalized yet.
According to the Nikkei Journal, Sony and Toshiba are finalizing plans to develop a unified disc format. The newspaper reported today that the two companies have agreed to combine Sony's 0.1mm protective layer and Toshiba's interface software. The reported agreement could be revealed as early as next week, says the paper
the Journal offered up some specifics on the alleged new format agreement. Chief among them is the supposed decision to adopt the Sony Blu-ray's 0.1mm protective layer.
Normal DVDs have a 0.6mm protective layer of plastic spread across their data-bearing surfaces, but Sony's Blu-ray disc format sacrifices durability in favor of more storage space. Use of this 0.1mm coating would require disc manufacturers to purchase new equipment, whereas Toshiba's 0.6mm coated HD-DVD discs can be laminated and polished with existing equipment.
The Nikkei Journal also alleges that Toshiba has agreed to create the software and copy-protection schemes to be used in the compromise disc format. If true, this means that Toshiba would author the code that tells disc drives how to read and write the data encoded on the discs.
Trauma-san:
Just my .02, logical common sense (which I think I have a lot of).
If you step back, there's a couple of interesting things.
First: Like Kane said, the whole thing is a big cluster fuck on the power issues. They have yet to use the full potential of the X-box, only 2 or 3 games even game close (halo, etc). They never used the full potential of the Gamecube either, and the PS2 was a total design flaw, they had too much of this and not enough of that, you ended up with the PS2 being more powerful in areas than the Gamecube but the Gamecube consistantly had better looking games becasue it was better designed with better-written software. The X-box had better technology in effect on certain games than the Gamecube, but not by much. Pushed, the Gamecube probably could have performed better than the best Xbox game, although Pushed the Xbox would have blown the Gamecube out of the water... my point is that neither system was pushed, although the Ps2 reached the limits of it's capabilities along time ago. Poor design (although they of course did fine with it and sold all they wanted).
So PS3 makes up for this by overcompensating, in an attempt to wow people. Ultimately, all the power is not needed by either machine. I know I'm a Nintendo fanboy but again I have to agree with their decision to only triple the power (think about how ludacrious that statement is, *only triple the power) of their system, and reach a price-conscious compromise with the consumer! Again, the games and the software is where the 'fun' actually comes in, not the overdriven power level of the system (i.e. the original x-box).
Also, no 'highest power' system has ever won any console war and you can take that to the bank. Every generation, and there have been about 5 by now, the mid power system wins out (except for the handheld race, where the weakest system, the gameboy, has always won).
-----------------
About the blue disc shit. Sony is using their console to try and PUSH that technology, and they'll probably succeed. They're not trying to 'guess' future standards, they're trying to MAKE the future standard, by using ps2's dominance of the marketplace. Ulimately, it may establish it as the next digital format, but I don't see that as too big of a hindrance to X-box, they could always drop 'blue disc' playback out of their list of features and just make it a usb add on to future systems, since no doubt Sony won't let them put a player in their system in the future.
I"m still amazed and don't really believe that the market will hold these prices. I think going over 300 on the consoles is suicidal. Look at the history of the Neo Geo, that's the only console to ever do it, and they never had any success. People are not going to pay 500 bucks for a system, and Sony cannot come below that price with their current hardware promises. I have'nt heard price estimates on the 360 yet, if they can keep it at 300, they'll own the next generation (barring Nintendo doesn't pull something overwhelming out, which I don't believe they will). Sony at 500 bucks is insane.
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