Lifestyle > Sports & Entertainment

Lakers on an uprise...just missing a few pieces to the puzzle.

<< < (24/25) > >>

TeeRaySix9Teen:

--- Quote from: Now_Im_Blowed on August 23, 2005, 03:10:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 11:13:46 AM ---
--- Quote from: Now_Im_Blowed on August 23, 2005, 09:34:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 12:12:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: Now_Im_Blowed on August 22, 2005, 12:58:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 21, 2005, 02:51:21 AM ---
--- Quote from: Now_Im_Blowed on August 20, 2005, 07:32:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 18, 2005, 03:25:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: Now_Im_Blowed on August 16, 2005, 10:18:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 16, 2005, 04:20:21 AM --- But i would say this, if i were to to START a team right at this moment...id take Lebron over Kobe.

--- End quote ---


30 GM's and I disagree with you... 8)

--- End quote ---

at least one half of your statement is correct  ;D

honestly tho, Kobe's best years have past him already. he's not the intelligent player that Jordan was. I dont see Kobe being able to evolve his game in the late years of his career when his athletisism disappears. Im not saying its gone now, but obviously Lebron's game is still in its early stages where he's going to improve. Kobe has already reached his potential. Its all down hill from here buddy  :P

--- End quote ---


Half of my statement? It's a fact...They had a poll in the beginning of last season. They asked all the GMs which player in the NBA they'd choose to build their team around. All 30 picked Kobeas. You're stupid for saying Kobe is going downhill from here...Jordan was just beginning at Kobe's age. Kobe is still young, there is no way he's reached his full potential...Unless he gets seriously injured or something like that, but Kobe is the type of player who works every off-season to better himself...He will amaze...PeACe

--- End quote ---

If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful. As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno?

when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...".  Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol

--- End quote ---


No kidding, dumbass. It's obvious that LeBron developed at an earlier age than Kobe, that's all Magic was saying...How many fucking times have we heard Magic saying Kobe is the best player in the league by far, and praising Kobe as one of the greatests...So if you wanna bring Magic into this, you've just killed your whole argument by yourself...LeBron is just special as in he got to an all-star level right off the bat (being pushed on an extremely whack team, of course), but Kobe hss still accomplished so much more and is on a whole other level...Anyone who knows anything will tell you the same.

--- End quote ---

Magic is a Laker...i think you know that. Magic will support his player first. So its a much bigger deal for Magic to put someone on a higher platform once, then it would be for him to put Kobe on it 100 times. If Kobe was traded tomorrow for Lebron, Magic would turn around and say Lebron is the best player in the league. Its common sense. Lebron got "pushed" to an all star level how? You cant deny how good he is. Kobe was on just as wack a team, so it shoulda been easy for him to shine also. Lebron gets a lot of attention because in a league that seems to embrace the selfish, flashy, ballhog players....Lebron shined while being unselfish. Kobe could learn from him....


like i said, im not even a Lebron fan...also, as far as what Kobe has accomplished....not that much without Shaq.

--- End quote ---


What has Jordan accomplish without Pippen and Phil? LOL...You're a joke, you make no sense. You bring what Magic says into this, and then when I use that to prove you wrong, you try flipping everything. LeBron is still tryna' learn off players like Kobe, so what's even going through your mind when you're saying shit like "Kobe could learn from him"...LeBron came into the league HOPING to be the next Kobe. He was drafted by a team where he was the main source of offense and basically was the head of everything on the team. Yes, he was athletic enough to shine like a star, but he couldn't take his team anywhere not 1, but 2 seasons in a row. If Kareem Rush was drafted by the Cavs with the first pick, got all the media attention in the NBA, and pushed the same way LeBron was pushed, he'd be looking like a superstar too. It's all about the position you're placed in. Kobe came in the league backing up the star shooting guard of the team (Eddie Jones). Kareem Rush came in the league backing up the star shooting guard as well (Kobe)...It's all about where you are placed and how you handle it. LeBron is an excellent player, but he's no where NEAR Kobe's level. If you honestly believe that, go ahead...Kobe has proven greatness, it doesn't take a genius to see that...PeACe

--- End quote ---

how did you prove me wrong on the Magic issue? I gave you a QUOTE strait from him. And you argued it. Plain and simple. You cant prove me wrong on it, without saying that Magic was lying through his teeth.

As far as Kobe learning from him...cmon man, i know youre young...but youre not THAT young lol. EVERYone, i mean EVERYone can learn from somebody. Rookie....Veteran....it doesnt matter. There are veterans who might learn from Kobe even from time to time. I didnt say Kobe should pattern his whole entire game after Lebron. Im saying he could learn from Lebrons unselfishness. Obviously, neither of us are in their locker rooms. But i guarentee you (and if you actually played ball like u said u did, then you agree) that Lebrons teammates are happier playing with a player like him...then Kobe's would, playing with a player like him. Role players like playing with a star, who can carry them, but will allow others to shine also. As far as comparing the two at the beginning of their career....once again, the Magic quote. I only use it because i agree with it. Argue with me.....argue with Magic the Laker God. lol. If you think im wrong, then go ahead and say it NIK....Magic is a fuckin idiot. 

--- End quote ---


LOL. I shot down every one of your arguments one by one, and this is all you have? I'm not arguing with Magic, I agree with him. LeBron is special as in he developed the quickest straight out of high school...He STILL is nowhere near Kobe. You think LeBron would like to be playing on the same team as Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, or Tracy McGrady right now? Hell no. What's your point, no superstar guard would like to play on the same team as another superstar who plays the same position. That doesn't equal winning, that equals heads clashing. LeBron has had everything to himself in Cleveland, he hasn't been put to the test yet. Remember that clean cut image Kobe had back in 2001? Everyone loved him, pretty much like everyone loves LeBron now...See, the point is that you don't base a player on their public image (LeBron is mature, LeBron is unselfish, etc.), you base them on their game and their accomplishments...Kobe has so much more to his name than LeBron. LeBron probably still looks up to Kobe like when he did in high school. He still probably watches Kobe tapes on replay from when LeBron was 14. Again, if you wanna go by what Magic says, Kobe is _____by far____ the best in the league... 8)PEACE

--- End quote ---

blah blah blah....blah blah lol. Jesus NIK...you disappoint me. Youre arguments always seem to look the same on this board. No matter who youre arguing with (which is basically everyone lol). You've only shot down as many points as youve had shot down yourself. This is a habit saying of yours over your 15 yrs here lol. You like to make yourself feel better by pretending youre winning an argument. We're arguing opinions here man, not facts. This argument is about who you would take to start your team with. I said id take Lebron over Kobe. You know im not a Lebron fan as it is, he wouldnt be my first pick and Im sure you know who that would be. My opinion of Kobe has stayed the same over the last 4-5 yrs or so and you know that. This isnt his "public image" lol. I dont give a shit if he rapes women...kills people...or whatever on his days off. I dont give a SHIT. Its his basketball maturity that i question, just like a lot of people....analysts included (since i KNOW you value their opinion more then your own). Yeah, it wouldnt be good for Lebron to be on a team with Wade, Bryant, T-Mac....etc right now. But the thing is, if he were....the coach (whoever it was) would MAKE it work. The starting lineup would be shuffled around until it worked. Someone would be changing positions to allow both to start. The Laker lineup wasnt shuffled around to let a rookie Kobe start. Not to mention, you said superstar. I liked Eddie Jones on those Laker squads....he was actually my favorite player on those teams. But....superstar? If you wanna put Eddie Jones in the same category with Kobe, T-Mac, and Wade.....then go ahead lol. You saying Lebron hasnt been put to the test? They basically placed the future of their franchise on a teenage kid! Kobe didnt have those pressures. All he had to do was sit and learn, and try not to fuck up when he got in the game his first 2 yrs. It wasnt put on his shoulders to resurrect a dying franchise or anything. Im not even really trying to argue that Lebron is such a better player then Kobe right now. Lebron is still new to the NBA really. But im arguing, and there is no way to argue this for u...that his upside is larger then Kobe's. If you dont agree with that, then youre saying that players improve more during the second half of their career....then they do during the first half of their career. lol. There is a reason the middle of your career is USUALLY referred to as your prime. Kobe has reached his prime, Lebron still has 2-3 yrs to reach his and Lebron was an MVP candidate last year. Yeah, Kobe has accomplished more...duh. But that wasnt what the argument was. If our argument is about the most "accomplished" ball players, then go ahead and agree with me that Duncan is more valuable then Kobe. But like i said, that wasnt our argument.

TeeRaySix9Teen:

--- Quote from: ACB on August 24, 2005, 05:21:35 PM ---
--- Quote ---first, i was talking about last year. Remember, one of these people im arguing with here is NIK who at the beginning of last year went on and on about how the Lakers would still be good because Kobe had good role players around him like Odom. Then, now....to defend Kobe says how he had no help.
--- End quote ---

It's exactly the same excuse LeBron fans are saying to defend Cavs failure to reach the Play Offs for 2 straight years.


--- Quote ---second, where was cleveland the year before Lebron. at least they are contending now, even if it is only to get in the playoffs. and theyll for sure make it in next year where LA still might not.
--- End quote ---

The team before LeBron didnt reached the Play Offs for 5 straight years. The team after LeBron havent reached them yet after 2 years. I see no differences at all. Now the only difference is that they have the most publicized player in the League and Cavs, once one of the worse NBA team in the League, is one of the most appealing because they always go to National TV and because LeBron is a media-star. But it's 7 years and running with no Play Offs. I'll listen to people talking about how a leader LeBron is the very first day he'll play a minute in the Play Offs.


--- Quote ---Yeah, Kobe didnt HAVE to be a leader on the Lakers when he came in. But even the biggest Kobe dickrider on earth couldnt say that he had the mentality to be able to lead an NBA team his rookie...or even sophomore year. Not one person on EARTH who knows basketball would say that. That is my point.
--- End quote ---

Not an interesting one. Expecially since 10 years ago a rookie from High School was something "wrong" for the NBA. Something so strange that Kobe was like an alien, like a kid in a grown men's world. Now it's all about HS players, so they're more prepared, and the teams/the media/the teammates are more prepared. Kobe 10 years ago was like a non-American player in the NBA: something "strange" that people wasnt prepared for. He was like Tony Kukoc. People just refused to give him enought props because he was European, they always repeated "who's this European kid? He can't play like we do" to themselves. Even Jordan had problems accepting him. Kobe was like that: people refused to give him props and attention just because he was 18 years old. But no matter what he forced West to trade Eddie Jones, the fan fav player on the team, to reach a better minutage. Shit man now Bynum and Gerrard Green are receiving love and it looks like the most "normal" thing in the world that they was selected being 17-18. So to compare the two situations is not a good thing. Kobe entered the league 10 YEARS AGO. It was a totally different game/scenario. Plus he joined the Lakers, a contender team runned by Shaq. So he didnt have to be a leader from the first moment, since that wasnt "his" team. LeBron had to be the leader since day 1. Cause Cavs is "his" team. To compare the two scenarios is just stupid.


--- Quote ---Lebron too? Makes no sense. Neither Lebron or Kobe had help last year. Kobe is a veteran in this league....Lebron is still a kid. This argument on who is a better leader shouldnt even be able to be made. But it is, because of Kobe's lack of leadership skills and Lebrons maturity.
--- End quote ---

That's just your opinion. 30 GM's + Nik and I thinks Kobe is the best player to build a team around.


--- Quote ---Like i said before, this argument is getting really boring. Its like arguing with some of these crazy religious fanatics about their religion. kobe is obviously your guys God lol. Sad...but true. During this argument ive even admitted i like his game, but there are negatives to him that made him and his team unsuccessful last year. You guys keep blaming everybody BUT him for any failures he has. Thats the definition of a dickrider...not a fan. As a fan, you see all aspects....positive AND negatives to whoever youre a fan of. Not ONE of you guys has admitted that there is ANYthing wrong with Kobe. He is perfect in your eyes. You gotta be kidding me...no matter how many points i prove, it wont matter. Christians cant prove the theory's of the Bible...but theyll always believe it no matter how many facts are against them. Oh well....keep worshipping u guys lol
--- End quote ---

???

--- End quote ---

1. Yeah, but im not a Lebron fan. I wasnt pumping up the squad at the beginning...only to dog them in the end. That's NIKs game...

2. Reaching the playoffs is a big deal, as is winning a championship. But improvement is what youre looking for in a team. You cant say that the Cavs arent a more respected team now then they were 3 yrs ago. More then likely they will make the playoffs next year. You have to remember tho, this is a historically bad franchise. With the Lakers, Kobe can just try and "hold on" until he eventually gets some real help. Who knows if the Cavs will ever get Lebron any.

3. Kobe wasnt the first player strait out of highschool....newsflash!

4. Well, like i said to NIK...one GM who had Kobe on their franchise....as well as you and NIK i guess had a pretty disappointing year last year. As for that poll, i dont remember it. If you have a link NIK post it up man.

4. Yeah, this argument IS getting boring. You guys are pretty blind homie. Ive admitted Kobe can play. Ive even admitted he is one of the better players in the league. But you guys are so busy being cheerleaders for the guy that u dont see ANY of his faults lol. If the guy was perfect, they would have at LEAST reached the playoffs last year.

acbaylove:
Kobe is the best SG in the league, plain and simple. He's not "perfect", nobody is. Last year the Lakers had a lot of problems:

1- Odom was forced to play PF. He can play some nice offence from the post, but he doesnt have the ability to be a defensive stopper from that position, and he cant stop the penetrations of the guards, since he aint a good shot blocker. That created a defensive hole.

2- Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown (not to mention Sasha Vujacic) are in the Top 10 list of the worse defensive PG last season. Plain and simple, they just wasnt able to defend. Everybody and their moma made season-high games against them. It's a fact. They let everybody penetrate, and without a good intidimator inside, it was like Heaven for the opponents. Another great defensive hole.

3- Kobe Bryant had to take care of the whole attack, so he had to waste a lot of energy in offence. He needed some help from other people in defence, since usually he had Horry and Shaq inside who made his defence better. With Odom and Mihm didnt feel comfortable in defence, since nobody doubled his player, and nobody really was an intimidator inside. Another defensive hole.

4- Rudy T. doesnt know the definition of "defence". Plain and simple. The biggest defensive hole.

5- We had B.Cook, Medvedenko and Luke Walton as our best bench players. C'mon now! They cant even defend themselves during pratice.

LAKERS MISSED A GOOD DEFENSIVE-MINDED COACH, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PF, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PG, AND, IN GENERAL, THEY MISSED SOME CREDIBILITY.

Now they have a pretty good defensive-minded PF in Brown (i aint a fan of him, but he's better than Odom as a defensive factor in the PF spot), two backup Centers in Bynum and Divac (ok, they aint superstars, but it's better than Medvedenko, isnt it?), two defensive-minded SF in George and Jumaine Jones, two defensive-minded PG in McKie and Smush Parker, and the best coach in the League. Judge Kobe from the next season. And in 2007, when Lakers will be contenders.

TeeRaySix9Teen:

--- Quote from: ACB on August 25, 2005, 01:17:40 AM ---Kobe is the best SG in the league, plain and simple. He's not "perfect", nobody is. Last year the Lakers had a lot of problems:

1- Odom was forced to play PF. He can play some nice offence from the post, but he doesnt have the ability to be a defensive stopper from that position, and he cant stop the penetrations of the guards, since he aint a good shot blocker. That created a defensive hole.

2- Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown (not to mention Sasha Vujacic) are in the Top 10 list of the worse defensive PG last season. Plain and simple, they just wasnt able to defend. Everybody and their moma made season-high games against them. It's a fact. They let everybody penetrate, and without a good intidimator inside, it was like Heaven for the opponents. Another great defensive hole.

3- Kobe Bryant had to take care of the whole attack, so he had to waste a lot of energy in offence. He needed some help from other people in defence, since usually he had Horry and Shaq inside who made his defence better. With Odom and Mihm didnt feel comfortable in defence, since nobody doubled his player, and nobody really was an intimidator inside. Another defensive hole.

4- Rudy T. doesnt know the definition of "defence". Plain and simple. The biggest defensive hole.

5- We had B.Cook, Medvedenko and Luke Walton as our best bench players. C'mon now! They cant even defend themselves during pratice.

LAKERS MISSED A GOOD DEFENSIVE-MINDED COACH, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PF, A DEFENSIVE-MINDED PG, AND, IN GENERAL, THEY MISSED SOME CREDIBILITY.

Now they have a pretty good defensive-minded PF in Brown (i aint a fan of him, but he's better than Odom as a defensive factor in the PF spot), two backup Centers in Bynum and Divac (ok, they aint superstars, but it's better than Medvedenko, isnt it?), two defensive-minded SF in George and Jumaine Jones, two defensive-minded PG in McKie and Smush Parker, and the best coach in the League. Judge Kobe from the next season. And in 2007, when Lakers will be contenders.

--- End quote ---

im pretty much done with this argument. its getting silly and just back and forth bullshit that isnt going anywhere. bottom line, IMO you guys seem to be more Kobe fans....then Laker fans. Thats cool if thats the case, but just be real about it. You guys always make excuses as to why the team sucked last year other then say that MAYBE....just MAYBE Kobe didnt do all he should have as the teams leader. its always somebody else. my argument about THAT, is based on NIK...aswell as a lot of Laker fans who at the beginning of last year defended their team saying their supporting cast was good. They had a potential All-Star in Odom...and other positions were filled. Your guys' opinions seem to completely mirror whatever the Laker front office's opinions are. Then, after the season...turn around to say "Kobe had no one all year". Yeah, im not doubting the team had problems. But i didnt see that Kobe was perfect all year either. There are things he can do to improve himself. If you guys dont agree, then you ARE saying he's perfect. Like i said before, this isnt based on last year alone. This is based on what ive ALWAYS thought of Kobe. He rode Shaq, period. Teams doubled Shaq his whole career...the whole time he is on the floor. It was rare teams played him strait up. Yes, Kobe is one of the best perimeter players in the league. Combine his skill, with the open looks and wide open lanes that Shaq was creating with the double teams...and you have a perimeter player that can look unstoppable. Kobe needs to learn how to play as the main focus now. Like it or not, with Shaq there...Kobe was NOT the main focus for defenses. Your main focus is gonna be the 7 ft, 300 somethin pound guy 3 feet from the basket....not the guy 20 feet from the basket. Why i put Lebron where i do in this argument. Lebron is young, barring injury probably has a long career ahead of him. You cant deny how good he is at such a young age. An MVP candidate in only his second year...and on his team, he is the man. He is the main guy. Its his team...win or lose, its on his shoulders. Kobe...experienced this for the first time last year, halfway through his career. So they are both learning the same thing as far as being the main focus on their teams. They are both learning it....and Lebron is only in his second year. Obviously, Kobe is the veteran. He obviously has been through things in the league that Lebron hasnt yet. But Lebron will go through those things, and will already have been through this process of learning to lead his team when he does. Is Kobe a stronger player right NOW, probably so. Will Lebron be stronger within 2 years, i think so.

7even:
^^^you're so damn right.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page