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Lakers on an uprise...just missing a few pieces to the puzzle.

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Now_Im_Not_Banned:

--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 12:17:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: Now_Im_Blowed on August 22, 2005, 01:11:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 21, 2005, 04:50:05 AM ---
--- Quote from: ACB on August 21, 2005, 04:22:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 21, 2005, 02:51:21 AM ---If you been payin attention to every other post ive ever made on this subject youd know, i dont consider Jordan and Kobe anywhere NEAR in the same league. And most others dont either. As a matter of fact, no one does except Kobe fans. So yeah, i think his career has already reached its pinnacle. He NEEDS others to make him great. I dont know why u guys cant see that when everyone else does. He NEEDS it. He's just not that guy. He's not the guy that makes everyone else successful.
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Are we judging the whole 9 years old career of Kobe or just his last disappointing season? If you look at the whole thing, Kobe has been a fantastic player, averaging 22.4 pts, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.45 spg, plus he was been named 7 times an All-Star, and he has averaged even better stats in 119 NBA PlayOff games. In a contender team, sharing the ball with Shaq. Those numbers alone will have as a consequence that the n.8 Lakers jersey will be retired, one day. Add 3 rings and a half in the mix, and you have a great player, no discussion. I dunno if he's on the same level of Magic, Jordan and Bird, who knows? But for sure he's the best SG in the league right now, and he was been the best one in the last couple of years. Plus he's still 27, so how is it possible to write something like "he has already reached its pinnacle"? Jordan won his first one at 28. C'mon now. C'mon now. Last year it was been a wasted one in Kobe's career, because of a lot of injuries (Kobe has missed 16 games, Odom 18, Grant 13, Divac 67, George 67, not to mention Rudy T), of troubles finding a good coach, and because of the team allowing opponents to score more than 110pts, embarassing. Next year it's the "real" one, with Phil back in L.A., with Bynum and Brown added in the mix, without Atkins, and with less pressure on the team. We will see. But let's wait to judge Kobe's career and let's stop saying he aint a "winner".


--- Quote ---As for Lebron, i dunno if u saw Magic when he was just on Jey Leno? when asked about the NBA age limit being at 19....he responded saying he wished it was 20. He said that all coaches feel the same. That their jobs are harder because they are stuck in the situation of having to teach kids the game of basketball. How players arent ready at the age of 18...or even 17 sometimes to play on an NBA team. He used the examples of Garnett and Kobe. Saying that they are both great players, and were good coming in. But that even they werent ready. It took them a couple years to realy develop their game to that of an NBA player. Then, in the middle of that comment he said..."except Lebron....he's special...".  Maybe Magics opinion doesnt mean shit....but lets just say...its the same as mine. Go ahead NIK....disagree with the allmighty Magic Johnson lol
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If we need to wait more on Kobe's career to judge it, LeBron's one still has to start!

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first off...me saying Kobe's career has reached its pinnacle is based on my assessment of Kobe. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Im not saying that ANYone at 27-28 has already reached or passed their prime. Im saying, i dont see Kobe getting BETTER. He hasnt shown the type of attitude that would allow him to. He's a big fuckin baby. It takes a mature, humble man to understand that theyll have to change their game completely at some point to stay at a top level (for a player who relies so much on athletism). Jordan understood that...i dont see Kobe that way. Yeah, Kobe has been a good player. He has been one of the better players in the league during the last 5 years or so, one of the best....as was Larry Johnson for the first half of his career. How many of you guys even know who the fuck he is now? lol. Yeah he has half a career left ahead of him. But we've had people on here comparing him to Jordan...and saying he is on the same level for a career. If those Laker....i mean, Kobe fans can make a judgement like THAT (insane) on only half a career...then i can say that i dont think he'll improve after this point. He will probably have a better year then last year. But he will never be the winner he was with Shaq...unless they bring him some BIG help like i said. The man just isnt a winner. He's a scorer...and thats it.

As for your Lebron statement. Im not even a Lebron fan. Im just saying i would take a player like Lebron over Kobe anyday to start my team with. Lebrons biggest problem coming into the league was being TOO unselfish. A problem Kobe has never had i guarentee lol. Lebron's game will improve more then likely from this point on. Kobe's probably wont (as he is half done). NIK was arguing it, so i just put up a quote from the most respected Laker of all time.

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LMAO, you don't make sense...First of all, stop comparing Kobe Bryant to Larry Johnson like an idiotic moron. Second of all, you act like you know Kobe's attitude so well. You don't. He's only shown improvement throughout the years, and every year he's worked to better himself in a drastic way during the off-season. Your statements hold no evidence, you have nothing to back what you say. Just stop making dumb predictions. :-X

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comparing him to Larry Johnson because you guys tell me i cant predict that Kobe will fall off later in his career, but you can predict that he'll be as great as Jordan by the end of his career. Hypocrits. Another example of your guys hypocracy...i only claim to know his attitude as much as you guys do, only in the opposite. You guys always claim he is this unselfish team player who wants to win first, shine second. Which is obviously an assessment of his attitude. Then when i say he is a selfish, non team player who wants to shine first, win second....you say that i cant possibly know his attitude lol. If you guys wanna call me a Kobe hater, thats fine...but at least admit how much of a Kobe dickrider you guys are lol

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If he wants to shine first why would he agree to play alongside 3 hall of famers in a quest for an NBA championship?...Your mentality is fucked, you keep coming up with factless theories which don't make sense. Nobody claims Kobe will be greater than Jordan yet, lots of people just see it as a possibility. Kobe is closer to greatness than he is to Larry Johnson status, and if you don't know that, I feel bad for anyone who discusses basketball with you. I'm not a Kobe dickrider either, because this is honestly my opinion, which many NBA experts and analysts share...

Now_Im_Not_Banned:

--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 12:22:49 AM ---
--- Quote from: ACB on August 22, 2005, 11:38:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 21, 2005, 09:28:21 PM ---no, Magic didnt say he was better right NOW. But he is also like 8 yrs younger and was a contender for MVP last year. Kobe in his first two years looked like a high school kid playing in the NBA.
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He was. Expecially since he started as a backup SG/SF. You gotta understand that one thing is to be selected with the #1 pick, with Nike already giving you billions before the NBA season begins, with the media loving you, and with Cleveland ready to completely build their team around you, making you "the King", and a totally different thing is to enter the NBA the way Kobe did, being selected with the #13 pick, then being traded to the Lakers, starting as a backup SG with Eddie Jones, the fan fav player, as the starter, and with the team completely built around Shaq. They are two completely different scenario's, you can't compare them. Kobe started to have good minutage only after Lakers traded Eddie Jones for Rice! How can you compare that scenario with LeBron's one where he was the most publicized player in the NBA...... before he joined the NBA? For sure LeBron is "special", i do agree with Magic. But he had the red carpet ready when he entered the NBA, and he still gotta prove he's a leader.

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its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes? I dont think he would have been ready in anyway. He wasnt mature enough. To me he has always been just that spoiled little kid thats been handed everything. Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.

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Kobe was handed everything? LMFAOOOOOOO...Kobe made a name for himself OUT OF NOWHERE. People thought, at the most, he'd reach all-star level...No one saw him as a possible candidate for one of the greatests EVER. He's worked to accomplish everything he's done. You're blinded, you don't even realize your own hatred for Kobe. I think if Kobe was placed on a team like Cleveland and pushed like LeBron was, he'd easily put up 25 points a game, but if it was Kobe, Cleveland woulda' made the playoffs in their second year... ::)

Now_Im_Not_Banned:

--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 04:47:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: ACB on August 23, 2005, 03:49:34 AM ---[/unbiased Basketball fan ON]


--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 12:22:49 AM ---its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
--- End quote ---

I don't know. I mean i'm a Laker fan, and i only watch Lakers games, so i can't say a lot about LeBron, cause i've seen him just a pair of times in full games. But i know Kobe. I do since i'm Italian and my father used to be a referee in our italian league. He knew Kobe's father (OT: good luck coaching the Sparks), and he knew Kobe too, not as a player, but as a little kid. He was involved in the Kobe's-father-buying-the-Milan-basketball-team operation 3-4 years ago, so he's still in contact with him. Somehow Kobe is special to me. My father tells me about when he was in Reggio Emilia being the referee of a local match (Kobe's father played for Reggio Emilia), and Kobe, who was just a kid, used to hit 3pts during half time, making the crowd jump off their seats screaming his name. He was like the mascotte of the team. He looked 15 years old, lol, but he was like 6-7. That's why i've always liked Kobe, since his first day in the NBA. Add the fact that he speaks fluent in Italian, and you have my "hero". But honestly i dont think he was ready to play in the NBA. He was like Sasha Vujacic, another guard i know who grew up in Italy. He had skills, but he didnt have an NBA mentality and he wasnt a "basketball" player enought to be ready for a contender team. Just like Sasha. Personally i think Kobe gotta thank a lot of people: Tex Winter, who made him an impact SG player, Eddie Jones, who helped him in his early years, Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, who were like fathers for him (expecially when he wasnt on good terms with his real one), Jerry West, for trading Eddie Jones and giving Kobe the needed spootlight, Fisher, Fox, Horry... all those player who are real men first, then great players later. You know what i mean? He wasnt ready for the NBA yet, but those players plus Phil Jackson made him what he is today. They changed him from Tracy McGrady to 3 and a half titles. LeBron? LeBron looks like he's 30. Not only phisical, but also because he looks to be a mature man, who doesnt need all the players/men who helped Kobe. It's like if LeBron has seen a VHS of Kobe's career, and he already knows what to do and how to do it. He's Kobe when he finished his developing process. That's where i do agree with Magic. Kobe wasnt ready, LeBron is. But Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker, something Lebron will probably never have. And Kobe had the pleasure to be a Laker when the Lakers were missing him to be a contender team. Lebron i dont know if he'll be in a team as strong as the 3peat Lakers. That's why people will always remember Kobe for the 3 rings. That's why i still prefeer Kobe. That's why Kobe is a champion, and LeBron is still a "baby". Cause no matter what, it's all about them rings. And Kobe, helped by all those people surrounding him, was been the main reason why the Lakers won 3 rings (no Kobe no rings! Somebody should remember it to Shaq!).


--- Quote ---Youre only showing the possitives for Lebron and negatives for Kobe to support your argument. Not showing how much more pressure Lebron was under to perform then Kobe. If Kobe was a bust, then like u said....he was only a #13 pick and a backup behind a fan favorite anyways. If Lebron failed, it would be Clevelands immediate future out the window. Alot of pressure for a young kid to step into the NBA and instantly be the leader of a team. Kobe could hardly handle that last year lol. Let alone his rookie year.
--- End quote ---

Yeah LeBron is coming out pretty well, i can't deny it. I dont hate on him, I'm simply a Laker fan who supports Kobe more, obviously.

[unbiased Basketball fan OFF]

[/Laker fan mode ON]


--- Quote from: TeeRaySix9Teen on August 23, 2005, 12:22:49 AM ---its probably silly to even ask this to a Kobe fan, but you seem sorta mature compared to these other clowns lol. But do you honestly....HONESTLY think Kobe would have performed like Lebron did in his first year if he was placed in Lebrons shoes?
--- End quote ---

First of all let me say that Kobe averaged 15.5 mins in his first NBA season, and 26.0 in his second.
Let's make a comparision between Kobe and Lebron, by calculating their rookie stats per 40 mins.

Kobe Bryant, 18 years old, averaged 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs, 3.3 assists and 1.8 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 19 years old, averaged 21.2 points, 5.5 rebs, 6.0 assists and 1.7 steals in 40 minutes.

Honestly, they aint "so" different, considering Kobe was a kid in a contender team, while LeBron was the Cavs. And that Kobe was 18 years old in a period where there were probably just like 3-4 other players "that" young in the league. Now it's all about HS players, you know, it's a totally different scenario!

Btw it's even closer in their second years..

Kobe Bryant, 19 years old, averaged 23.7 points, 4.7 rebs, 3.9 assists and 1.4 steals in 40 minutes.
LeBron James, 20 years old, averaged 25.7 points, 6.9 rebs, 6.8 assists and 2.1 steals in 40 minutes.

LeBron's stats are better, but that's partially because he didnt have Shaq to share the ball with.

Kobe took his time to blow in the league as the best SG in the game. Something LeBron still has to do. 8)

[/Laker fan mode OFF]

--- End quote ---

for the first half of your post....you might be right, no Kobe...no rings. But at the same time, no Shaq...no playoffs.

for the second half, this is where the problem comes into play when i argue with all these Laker fans. Somewhere along the line they seem to have gotten the idea that stats make u great. they dont. leading your team makes u great. if stats are how we judge greatness...then Magic is only the second greatest passer ever. Id put him at first, but the stats say Stockton. stats are great for basketball cards and ESPN "Did you knows" but they dont show who is really great or who is a real leader for their team. What im saying about Kobe is that he couldnt have made Cleveland a legitimate team like Lebron did this fast in his career. Kobe during his first couple years showed talent, but definetely....DEFINETELY not the ability to lead. And last year, after how many years in the league...things were the same. He didnt lead. He got his stats...and thats it. Thats not greatness. Lebron honestly IMO did a better job LEADING his team last year then Kobe did his. And Lebron still has some work to do on his leadership skills. So where does that leave Kobe? This whole argument was about who u would take to start your franchise from this point on. I said id take Lebron cus his upside is FAR higher then Kobe's....from THIS point on. Lebron still has a ton of room to improve and he was an MVP candidate last year. Its rare that many players improve during the second half of their career and typically its big men if anything. So other then being a Kobe fan, how do people not see that he falls into the same category. Yeah, he COULD improve. Im not saying its impossible. Im saying i dont think his improvement (if any) would be so drastic that theyll win another championship without some SERIOUS help. Like it or not, he won those rings WITH Shaq. Shaq has gone to the finals with the Lakers and the Magic and Miami was in good position to last year. Kobe still has to prove he can even make the playoffs without Shaq. To think that Kobe, on the perimeter was somehow helping Shaq on the inside more then the other way around only shows a lack of basketball knowledge. Any coach in this league would take a dominant big man in the middle over a dominant perimeter player. Theres so many more matchup problems a dominant big man can create as well as setting up all his perimeter players. Kobe's game, like it or not, was drastically helped by Shaqs presence. Anyways, fuckit this is getting boring lol Me, Scittles and Jake have gone back and forth since the beginning of time on this and nothing ever changes. Ive always admitted that i like Kobe's game. But the Kobe fans cant seem to get it outta their heads that he isnt perfect, and he definetely isnt Jordan lol. He's good, but his little spoiled brat "give me all the spotlight" attitude will always give him this kind of negative attention.

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You honestly don't think that the 3peat Lakers minus Shaq wouldn't make the playoffs? LOL...The team that didn't make the playoffs last year was an expansion team with Kobe. Kobe STILL showed leadership skills and STILL helped every player on the team improve their game, from Chucky Atkins, to Chris Mihm. From Tierre Brown, to Caron Butler... Through injury, coaching changes, and basically a plagued team, Kobe still pulled through, still played like a superstar (without Shaq), and still mentored the new Laker players...The fact that the season plan went down the drain halfway through is not in Kobe's hands...LeBron did a better job leading? LMFAO. LeBron couldn't make the playoffs in the EAST with and all-star center by his side and a nice supporting cast who've been together enough to build chemistry. That's why you got players like Jeff McInnis leaving Cleveland, because they know they can shine better on other team...Shaq has gone to the playoffs with NBA superstars to guide him, like Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade. Shaq hasn't proven any more than Kobe has. You said you'd take LeBron to start your franchise. 30 GM's + I said Kobe was the man we'd take to start our franchise. Who has more to back them? 8)

Now_Im_Not_Banned:

--- Quote from: Black Mask on August 23, 2005, 08:42:42 AM ---.but if you know annything about b-ball you would know that Rudy T is a bad fucking coach..look @ his rocket teams the last 4 seasons..

--- End quote ---


And even with Rudy-T, the Lakers were in the playoffs...They were playing decent and were climbing up the ladder. Everything went downhill when Rudy-T resigned, it became a catashtrophe.

TeeRaySix9Teen:

--- Quote from: Black Mask on August 23, 2005, 08:42:42 AM ---I think we can all agree that TeeRaySix9Teen is a moron. :-*

And to say everything was handed to kobe it's retarded...he had to work for everything he has you moron..

And again ..you're just one of these little bitches jumping up & down kobe had 1 so called bad season..wich he didn't..but kobe is such @ a high level that if he has a season like last season it's cosidered a bad season..but if you know annything about b-ball you would know that Rudy T is a bad fucking coach..look @ his rocket teams the last 4 seasons..

And obviously your stupid ass  don't listen to Sports Radio b/c all these faggots that host the show & call always say "kobe doesn't pass the ball"..that shit is so stupid & you're saying the same thing when you say "kobe is selfish he could learn something from lebronze"..you're stupid...

And @ the end of the day Lebron wants to be kobe..Lebron has yet to do 20% of what kobe has/will do in his career ;)

--- End quote ---

first off, you and NIK already lost this argument. Its obvious when you guys are losing....because all u do is hop in the thread and try to talk shit and call names rather then make ANY real points. NIK, even though acting like a bitch in this thread has a little bit of my respect when it comes to this basketball shit because of our past arguments. And regardless of how sensitive he's getting now he knows how much i know basketball also. We just disagree on this subject and always will until Kobe is a distant memory lol.

You, on the other hand...are nobody. You havent made ONE point. Youve only proven your status as a dickrider even further by arguing. A fan would make valid points and respect the others opinion. A simple dickrider like yourself would only get emotional when someone else says anything negative about their idol. There are differences between fans...and dickriders....you just havent figured out which one you are even though its obvious to any non Laker fan.

What does Sports Radio have to do with any of this? lol. Stick to the topic if youre going to argue. Like i said, unless youve been here since ive been here and seen me saying the same shit about Kobe when they were WINning championships...then dont speak on it. Im done responding to your posts after this one. Youre a strait basketball retard when it comes to this subject so your opinion just doesnt matter.

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