Lifestyle > Train of Thought
Islam in America
TraceOneInfinite:
--- Quote from: CWalker187 on September 13, 2005, 04:24:31 PM ---
No shit. And Islam spread throughout Africa among the black population the exact same way. What is your point?
--- End quote ---
This is not at all true, and I challenge you to substantiate these claims.
The first Muslims came to Africa not as conquerers but to spread the message of Islamic monotheism. These traveling Muslim sufi's and shaiks (who were not all Arab, but many were black Africans themselves, as black people had lived in Arabia and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had relatives and companions such as Bilal who were black) They came along with traders, and laid much of the groundwork for Islam to flourish in Africa through their Islamic business practices which consisted of no usury/interest and equality and fairness. Contrast that with the Western colonial powers who came to Africa as racist conquerors, exploiting Africa's trade in such a way that Africa's goods and resources were devalued on the world market and placing them in a permanent state of debt through usury/interest.
Immigrants laid much of the groundwork for Islam's expansion, but actually you'll find in the history that it was indigenous native leaders like West African king Mansa Musa who mobolized and popularized Islam, and Islam benefited the economy of the Mali Empire so greatly that when Mansa Musa went on his historic Hajj in the 14th century he carried so much gold he changed the economy of every place he visited on the way! This means he was more wealthy than any of the Arabs were in that time.
--- Quote from: CWalker187 on September 13, 2005, 04:24:31 PM ---
Seriously man, why do you Muslims make it illegal for us Christians to preach our religion over there? What are you guys so scared of?
--- End quote ---
CWalker, your comments are false and I challenge you to prove your statement. First of all, you talk about the Middle East, but do you realize that Arabs only make up 13% of the Muslim world? The largest Muslim country is all the way in Indonesia, far from the Middle East, and they don't have any laws preventing Muslims from converting to Christianity, infact, Islam spread through that country during colonialism by the Dutch and the Dutch were oppressive to Islam and it spread inspite of that oppression.
The country with the second largest Muslim population is India, and this is happening inspite of the fact that mostly Hindu's rule the country, and before that there was British colonialism, so obviously there are no laws preventing Muslims from leaving the religion.
Actually, CWalker, if you study history, and you can even find this in your own American history textbooks, you will find that Islam has always spread amongst all kinds of oppression and repression.
Shallow:
--- Quote from: Allah's slave: Abdul-Infinite on September 14, 2005, 01:14:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: CWalker187 on September 13, 2005, 04:24:31 PM ---
No shit. And Islam spread throughout Africa among the black population the exact same way. What is your point?
--- End quote ---
This is not at all true, and I challenge you to substantiate these claims.
--- End quote ---
Whether that's true about Africa as a whole I'm not sure, but surely you aren't saying that Islam never spread through violence and threats. That would be foolish. Muhammad and later Umar spent a lot of time conquering with their swords just as much as their wisdom. To me that is no different than what Alexander did.
For the record that is why I rejected the word of Muhammad and and accused it of being false. I refuse to believe that the same God that opened the sea for Moses would need warriors with swords to spread his word, all the while contradicting it. Then I read about hte early christians spreading the faith through absolute scarifice. They offered their lives for the faith, with out taking anyone else's. They did not go on kamikaze missions but spiritual missions for themselves. It wasn't until after Rome adopted it that it started detiorating, but he essence is alive and well in my opinion and just because those that claimed to be the head of the religion over the centuries contradicted it does not mean the religion is at fault. If I go aroud Toronto killing people and carving DUBCC on their heads, should the forum be blamed, or should it be me?
Like I've said many times, if you've found peace within Islam then so be it. Good for you. But don't let it blind you. Humans are human and always will be. With any religion or society or race you will find the bad as well as the good. To attempt to convice yourself or anyone else otherwise is stupid. Look to the principles and the essence and base your opinion on that.
J @ M @ L:
People still believe that Christopher Columbus was a great guy who discovered America, showered the indigenous people with gifts, and helped them become civilized. A similiar misconception is that Islam actually spread by the sword.
De Lacy O'Leary (non-Muslim historian): "History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
Shallow:
--- Quote from: JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel on September 14, 2005, 05:57:05 PM ---People still believe that Christopher Columbus was a great guy who discovered America, showered the indigenous people with gifts, and helped them become civilized. A similiar misconception is that Islam actually spread by the sword.
De Lacy O'Leary (non-Muslim historian): "History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
--- End quote ---
My direct ancestors lived through 400 years of slavery because of your "myth". I guess you're right. It was a myth, and so was the White Man taking Blacks from Africa. They wanted to leave. It's not the white man's fault they didn't like where they ended up. Moron. Don't ever go to Greece, Cyprus, or Armenia and use that quote. You may get killed for your bullshit.
DAYUM:
--- Quote from: JML - no vowels, disembowel your Colin Powell, throw in the towel on September 14, 2005, 05:57:05 PM ---People still believe that Christopher Columbus was a great guy who discovered America, showered the indigenous people with gifts, and helped them become civilized. A similiar misconception is that Islam actually spread by the sword.
--- End quote ---
Columbus was a horrible man and deserved to burn in hell
anyone mexican/american or native american will agree with me
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