Lifestyle > Train of Thought
The blacks here in Ohio rioted again.......
Teddy Roosevelt:
--- Quote from: 7even the sober dude on October 21, 2005, 04:04:37 PM ---you can hate nazis for protestin n shit.. but you cant hate the govt for allowing them to protest.. you can't say it's a free country, as soon as you forbid someone do to a protest because of his bad taste
--- End quote ---
Exactly. Its called free speech. You can't restrict it from some people and not from others. Thats how shit like dictatorship starts.
Javier:
I thought this was the point of the Patrioct Act? Or it only applies when it's versus muslims extremists?
Eihtball:
OK, here's my take on this whole thing. Let it be known that I generally consider myself a moderate who leans a bit to the left - even though I usually vote Democrat, there are times where I disagree enough with the party that I simply don't vote for them (which isn't to say that I vote Republican - I have yet to that since I started voting, and it'll probably remain that way).
First of all, hearing you people argue about the whole "liberal vs. conservative" thing is stupid - you're all products of the mass media which has for years perpetuated a misconception that "liberal" equals left-wing/socialist/Democrat and "conservative" = right-wing/neo-fascist/Republican, and both are perceived as "dirty words" by the other side. The truth is a lot more complicated than this. Since the 17th century, the term "liberal" has meant a proponent of capitalism and basic freedoms (such as human rights). "Conservative" was not considered a political orientation - it was simply an adjective that meant adherence to earlier ways, whatever those were. Almost all Democrats and Republicans are "liberals" in this sense - they believe in capitalism (though Republicans often like to insult Democrats by calling them "socialists") and freedom. However, Republicans strive more for Libertarianism (essentially laissez-faire capitalism) because they believe that the Constitution is fine as-is and we should stick with it, and they fear that changing too much is going to lead us astray (they often point to the failure of the Roman Empire). I can understand them, but I don't agree with them about 90% of the time. Democrats are a bit more progressive and see this country as a work in progress - it's basically good and was founded with good goals in mind, but the world isn't the same way it was in the 18th century, and improvements are needed to keep things running smoothly. So basically, despite how the media has perverted it, the tension between Democrats and Republicans is not a clash of "right-wing" vs. "left-wing" - it's simply matter of disagreement between "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "we can always improve". This is not to say that there aren't extremists on both sides, but they are the exceptions, not the rules. If people would stop being so defensive and attacking each other over political matters, politics wouldn't so polarizing.
Furthermore, Cwalker (or Trauma or whoever) has been a dumbass this entire time - acting like he's so smart when he's really just buying into the same type of ignorance I've mentioned above. His claim that Democrats (or "liberals") "suppress freedom" of people they don't like is partially true, but it is not something exclusive to Democrats. Ever hung around on Republican or pro-gun message boards? Many of them talk about the same shit - I regularly see them talk about how they think anti-war protests should be banned as "unpatriotic", and how the Million Mom March for gun control shouldn't be allowed, and how any Black Panthers/NOI marches (including the Million Man March) should be considered terrorist gatherings. And of course, need I remind you that Republicans have typically been the biggest opponents of gangsta rap (as well as other genres, such as punk and heavy metal)? The fact that they've succeeded in actually getting many rappers kicked off their labels and their albums banned is a perfect example of censorship, and that's quite reprehensible. Point is, there are assholes on both sides who try to censor people they don't like - it is definitely NOT a Democrat or a Republican thing.
ANYWAY, since I've gotten that out of the way, here's my take on the whole Ohio thing. I hate Nazis. I think they're despicable motherfuckers and scumbags, and I wish they didn't exist. But that's still wishful thinking - the fact is, they always will exist as long as there is ignorance in this world, and trying to ban their freedom of speech is just going to make them martyrs for their cause. Ant's claim that they should be banned from protests simply because they're racists doesn't make any sense - there's a huge difference between having racist beliefs and acting on them. As long as they're not engaging in violent racism (lynchings, shootings, burning black people at the crosses, whatever), I could care less if they want to be racist assholes. I grew up in the South - I'm used to encountering people like that on a regular basis. Therefore, I think that the rioting in Ohio was stupid and counter-productive. I can understand being pissed off about them protesting, but attacking ambulances? That's just fucking idiotic - as many people have said, doing that makes the Nazis look like they're right.
And don't tell me that there aren't plenty of racist black folks out there - in L.A. right now, there's a lot of gang violence between Latinos, blacks, and Asians that's racially motivated. Look at the 1992 L.A. Riots - motherfuckers attacking the Korean and Jewish businesses out of pure jealousy. Is it all understandable? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it should be condoned. While I think black people do have a right to be pissed off about all the injustice that exists in this country (and it is something that needs to be dealt with), there are too many blacks who will use injustice as an excuse to act irresponsibly and hypocritically. They're not interested in improving their communities or even their own lives - they're simply looking for a chance to snatch a TV to make a quick buck, simply because they think they can get away with it. Furthermore, I'm sure you people have heard plenty of racist rap lyrics by now - ESPECIALLY by Ice Cube with all of his references to killing "crackers" and "devils" on record. Just look through his albums at all of the racist songs he's made - "No Vaseline", "Black Korea", "Cave Bitch", "I Wanna Kill Sam", "Horny Lil Devil", "Enemy"...and that's just a few I can think of. Not to mention the stuff he did with Da Lench Mob - that group put out a song called "Buck Tha Devil", for crissakes! I've also heard racism in songs by Brand Nubian, Paris, Public Enemy, and a whole bunch of other rappers. To me, it's ridiculous that they preach against racism and injustice and then turn around and do the same shit themselves. So the big question to those of you who want the Nazis' right to protest banned is - do you think that these rappers should be banned for the racism in their lyrics?
So basically, that's my take on this whole debate. I may have a specific political viewpoint, but I don't let it cloud my judgment the way some of you folks do. Regardless of whether you consider yourself a Democrat or a Republican, you've gotta be willing to acknowledge that both sides do have plenty of ignorant assholes, and neither holds a monopoly on ignorance.
Ant:
--- Quote from: Eihtball on October 21, 2005, 04:28:12 PM ---Ant's claim that they should be banned from protests simply because they're racists doesn't make any sense - there's a huge difference between having racist beliefs and acting on them.
--- End quote ---
Where did I make that claim?
Real American:
--- Quote from: Ant on October 21, 2005, 06:37:54 PM ---
Where did I make that claim?
--- End quote ---
Up above. You are the typical left winger that wants to censor and ban anyone who has a different opinion.
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