West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: eS El Duque on June 14, 2008, 07:41:52 AM
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He ain't even better.
MJ would've NEVER....EVER let his team lose a 20 point edge...IN THE FUCKIN FINALS... I don't give a fuck if Kobe's team fell asleep in the late 3rd/early 4th. Kobe had to stop the bleeding. He has to go into games thinking he might never get back here agian!
Cuz believe me...if Lakers lose this series...and never come back to another championship...y'all can bet the only sports fans who'll say Kobe is better than MJ will be laker fans...thats it.
Shaq is 20 times the players Lamar Gay Ass Odom or Pau the Fagoot Gasol will ever be.
Note: If the Lakers somehow manage to come back and WIN this series...i'll take everything back
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You are correct in everything you said.
This series is over in Game 5 or 6. LA may win on Sunday, but that's as close as they'll get.
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give Kobe a scottie pippen, not gumby gasol and see what happens...these comparisons are soo dumb just a way to take cheap shots at Kobe.
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not even taking this series into consideration, kobe ain't on MJ's level
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give Kobe a scottie pippen, not gumby gasol and see what happens...these comparisons are soo dumb just a way to take cheap shots at Kobe.
LOL...exactly. Jordan wouldn't even be in the Finals in the position Kobe is. If Pippen was on this current Laker team, no chance Boston would be up 3-1. Kobe@29>MJ@29... Kobe will win more rings and end his career as GOAT...PeACe
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not even taking this series into consideration, kobe ain't on MJ's level
In what aspect? Kobe, skillwise, is better than Jordan...Don't believe me? Just ask Phil Jackson.
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And to the idiots who say Kobe fell asleep in the 4th quarter, HE SCORED 10 POINTS...It was his teammates who didn't step up in offense and defense...Did you even watch the game? LOL.
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i dont know, i was CERTAIN Kobe was going to finally take the step into MJ like greatness with this series. i bet 300 on it. damn. you are right, MJ would NEVER let his team lose after being up 20 points in a finals game. EVER
and laker fans, dont come with this well, Kobe doesnt have Pippen etc, or Bynum isnt playing, because 99 percent of you were predictiing sweeps or five game series before the series started, even fucking dynasties.
you know? The lakers may still win this series. they may very well turn into a dynasty. Kobe may achieve MJ like greatness. bt the fact it, he hasnt yet, the Lakers are down 3-1 because they arent playing that well and are maybe just playing a better team. The celtics defence is sick SICK sick. ask kobe.
what i dont want to hear are excuses by Lakers fans. this is the finals, you man up or go home. when the suns lost amare last year against the Spurs, Laker fans (aka Suns haters) on here said it didnt matter, they wouldnt have won anyway.
so no fucking excuses. maybe the lakers still win. if they do, Kobe will be the reason they are able to do it, and he may then be talked about as a top 10 (maybe even top 5) all time great
and what i dont get is people like Nik.......when things go bad for the Lakers, its always fuck the rest of the team, its like Kobe can do no wrong. are you a Lakers fan or a Kobe Stan? come on man, you know Kobe isnt taking over when he has to.
and yes, Kobe may be more skilled than Jordan, but noone worked harder than Jordan. and noone had better results than Jordan. the jury is still out on Kobe
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i dont know, i was CERTAIN Kobe was going to finally take the step into MJ like greatness with this series. i bet 300 on it. damn. you are right, MJ would NEVER let his team lose after being up 20 points in a finals game. EVER
and laker fans, dont come with this well, Kobe doesnt have Pippen etc, or Bynum isnt playing, because 99 percent of you were predictiing sweeps or five game series before the series started, even fucking dynasties.
you know? The lakers may still win this series. they may very well turn into a dynasty. Kobe may achieve MJ like greatness. bt the fact it, he hasnt yet, the Lakers are down 3-1 because they arent playing that well and are maybe just playing a better team. The celtics defence is sick SICK sick. ask kobe.
what i dont want to hear are excuses by Lakers fans. this is the finals, you man up or go home. when the suns lost amare last year against the Spurs, Laker fans (aka Suns haters) on here said it didnt matter, they wouldnt have won anyway.
so no fucking excuses. maybe the lakers still win. if they do, Kobe will be the reason they are able to do it, and he may then be talked about as a top 10 (maybe even top 5) all time great
and what i dont get is people like Nik.......when things go bad for the Lakers, its always fuck the rest of the team, its like Kobe can do no wrong. are you a Lakers fan or a Kobe Stan? come on man, you know Kobe isnt taking over when he has to.
and yes, Kobe may be more skilled than Jordan, but noone worked harder than Jordan. and noone had better results than Jordan. the jury is still out on Kobe
Yea, we all predicted that the Lakers would sweep or win in 5, but none of us predicted that Pau Gasol or Lamar Odom would completely DISAPPEAR! That's where we lost, not in anything Kobe did...And Kobe is known to have a stronger work-ethic than Jordan. Ask anyone who's seen both players at work. You're saying Kobe didn't take over when he needed to, but he scored 10 points in the Final quarter! It's his TEAMMATES who let up on defense and stopped playing their games on offense...Jordan woulda' been no better off. In fact, I don't think Jordan woulda been able to turn a 42 win team to a Finals contender in the span of a season. All the idiots using Game 4 as the reason Kobe isn't on Jordan's level are out of their mind...PeACe
PS...Kobe's already accepted as a top 3 player in this leage. LOL@"maybe a top 5". I, along with many others, put him right at the top.
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What is it about Kobe that makes LAker fan so Bias towards him.mIts fucking incredible. IN this forum ive never read someone say something bad about KObe and laker fan agree even if it was well written and thoughtfull. At time its funny at times its juts fucking sad.
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What is it about Kobe that makes LAker fan so Bias towards him.mIts fucking incredible. IN this forum ive never read someone say something bad about KObe and laker fan agree even if it was well written and thoughtfull. At time its funny at times its juts fucking sad.
It has nothing to do with bias...many people who are not Laker fans have said Kobe is as good or better than Jordan. You're just a casual basketball fan, so what would you know?
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One Game They lost and he was the only one that did anything at the end of that game, it was kobe vs Boston and he got guys open shots, when he gets trippled teamed and give guys wide open shot after shot what is he supposed to do? Force shit? Then ud be doggin him for that...Too many haters. What if Paxson or Kerr wouldnt have hit those big shots and passes from Jordans in those finals? Would u be saying Jordan didnt step up blah blah blah? Some people on this forum are too much lol..
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What is it about Kobe that makes LAker fan so Bias towards him.mIts fucking incredible. IN this forum ive never read someone say something bad about KObe and laker fan agree even if it was well written and thoughtfull. At time its funny at times its juts fucking sad.
It has nothing to do with bias...many people who are not Laker fans have said Kobe is as good or better than Jordan. You're just a casual basketball fan, so what would you know?
Well you do know more about this sport in particular then me but i dint make a statement baout Kobe being better or worse i made a statement about how Kobe fans seem to have a bias.
Now write me something back, i know you got a answer for everything
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That's the same as saying Jordan fans have a bias towards him, though...LOL
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They are both great, they both have rings, and they look identical on the court. Were never gonna agree on whose the best..
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
BUT IF KOBE HAD BILL CARTWRIGHT OR LUC LONGLEY HE WOULD BE THE GREATEST!!!
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give Kobe a scottie pippen, not gumby gasol and see what happens...these comparisons are soo dumb just a way to take cheap shots at Kobe.
give MJ a Shaq and watch him win 10 titles
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That's the same as saying Jordan fans have a bias towards him, though...LOL
here's the problem NIK
people who say Kobe is better = a few crazy Laker fans
people who say MJ is better = fans of every other team + sane Laker fans
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
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That's the same as saying Jordan fans have a bias towards him, though...LOL
here's the problem NIK
people who say Kobe is better = a few crazy Laker fans
people who say MJ is better = fans of every other team + sane Laker fans
Your argument would be legit, only there are non Laker fans who says Kobe is as good/better and you sound like a total idiot.
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
If Jordan had the most dominant center of all time when he came into the league he would have won earlier than he did. Your arguement that Kobe has more titles at a certain age is completely meaningless. Show me how many rings, how many mvps, and how many finals losses are on MJ's resume.
And since you're the king of woulda coulda shoulda, Jordan would have 8 rings and 7 mvps if he hadn't left in his absolute prime.
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
If Jordan had the most dominant center of all time when he came into the league he would have won earlier than he did. Your arguement that Kobe has more titles at a certain age is completely meaningless. Show me how many rings, how many mvps, and how many finals losses are on MJ's resume.
And since you're the king of woulda coulda shoulda, Jordan would have 8 rings and 7 mvps if he hadn't left in his absolute prime.
kobe didnt go to college too, 3 years earlier to win
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PS...Kobe's already accepted as a top 3 player in this leage. LOL@"maybe a top 5". I, along with many others, put him right at the top.
Thats one thing I agree with...Kobe IS the best player in the league right now.
but Man...watching game 4 with my Laker buddies was depressing...Kobe's team did fall asleep...but Kobe has to be A LEADER! An MVP that wakes his team up!!!!
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
Shaquille O'neal ...3 Finals MVPs.
Robert Horry had more rings than Kobe and Jordan at 29. Clearly he's the GOAT ::)
Let's look at Beans Finals Numbers
gainst Indiana 1999-2000
15.6 PPG and 36% FG (While Shaq avg. 38 PPG, 16.6 RBDS, and 61% FG).
Against Philly 2000-2001
24.6 PPG and 41.5% FG
Against New Jersey 2001-2002
26.8 PPG and 51.4% FG(the closest he's come to performing like Mike in the Finals)
Against Detroit 2003-2004
22.6 PPG and 37% FG
This year he's avg about 30 on probably something like 30% FG
ZERO Finals MVPS, BELOW 40% fg avg, allowing an embarrassing choke job at home...
95% OF PEOPLE TALKING THAT Kobe>>MJ nonsense are Lakers homers who cant be reasoned with, since Kobe aint even in the top 2 LAKERS of all time. And the other 5% opinions on bball are irrelevant if they make such claims...
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MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kobe
kobe still got a long way to go b4 he can be considered on mj's level and ppl need to stop saying "well in the future kobe is gonna win this n that so he'll be better".. fuck that tell me what he done, tell me what he doin..
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
Shaquille O'neal ...3 Finals MVPs.
Robert Horry had more rings than Kobe and Jordan at 29. Clearly he's the GOAT ::)
Let's look at Beans Finals Numbers
gainst Indiana 1999-2000
15.6 PPG and 36% FG (While Shaq avg. 38 PPG, 16.6 RBDS, and 61% FG).
Against Philly 2000-2001
24.6 PPG and 41.5% FG
Against New Jersey 2001-2002
26.8 PPG and 51.4% FG(the closest he's come to performing like Mike in the Finals)
Against Detroit 2003-2004
22.6 PPG and 37% FG
This year he's avg about 30 on probably something like 30% FG
ZERO Finals MVPS, BELOW 40% fg avg, allowing an embarrassing choke job at home...
95% OF PEOPLE TALKING THAT Kobe>>MJ nonsense are Lakers homers who cant be reasoned with, since Kobe aint even in the top 2 LAKERS of all time. And the other 5% opinions on bball are irrelevant if they make such claims...
You're insane. As if Kobe wasn't the main guy taking over those 4th quarter all throughout the playoffs in the threepeat era, while Shaq sat on the bench half the time in the clutch, either because he was in foul trouble or to avoid hack-a-Shaq. Shaq was always the go-to guy on the Lakers, but it was always clear that Kobe was just as (if not more) vital to the sucess of those teams. He was simply willing to take a back seat, because that's the only way Shaq could have it. Right now, Kobe has surpassed Jordan SKILLWISE. He simply doesn't have the same type of veteran squad that has been in this position before surrounding him. As of now, Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Kerr, Kukoc etc. >>>> Odom, Gasol, Vujacic, Sasha etc. Give it some time...Kobe has lots of it, and he is the better talent. You will see.
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
If Jordan had the most dominant center of all time when he came into the league he would have won earlier than he did. Your arguement that Kobe has more titles at a certain age is completely meaningless. Show me how many rings, how many mvps, and how many finals losses are on MJ's resume.
And since you're the king of woulda coulda shoulda, Jordan would have 8 rings and 7 mvps if he hadn't left in his absolute prime.
LOL, yea right, Jordan would have 8 rings?...That's why he lost won he first came back. ::) If anything, Jordan had time to revitalize himself for the next threepeat with that first retirement. Regardless, Jordan DID need dominant players to succeed. It might not have been a dominant center, but Pippen was a dominant defender and was even considered the 2nd best player in the league behind Jordan when they were on top of shit...MJ might not have Finals losses, but there have been years where he didn't even make the playoffs! Finals losses>Not making the playoffs, so that just kills your whole argument of Finals losses meaning shit. Kobe will have at least 6 rings by the time he retires, and who knows how many MVPS. But MVPs don't mean shit...we all know what those awards mean nowadays...PeACe
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LOL Vanessa is that you? Jordan NEVER missed the playoffs, and he certainly never blew a 3-1 lead as Kobe did against Phoenix. Why you making stuff up now? You aint got to lie to kick it
Like I said, a Kobe fanboy just cant be reasoned with.....
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You're actually right...he never missed the playoffs WITH THE BULLS (but he did with Washington). The point is, he didn't reach the Finals until 1991. He was drafted in 1984. People who are acting like Jordan was flawless need to man up.
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one thing about MJ, he always defended his title. he just refused to lose in the finals; check his last title and look at his teammates stats. he did it all offensively, pippen was like odom
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^LOL! Pippen never disappeared like Odom did in this series, and if Kerr and Paxson missed those big shots like Vujacic did in Game 4 (1-9 FG), then there's no way he woulda done it all on his own. MJ refused to lose alright.. but so does Kobe. There's only so much you can do when everyone isn't on the same page in terms of experience and competitiveness...Most of our players haven't even been to the Finals. Give Kobe some time before you fucks try claiming he's not on Jordan's level. He has a very bright future ahead of him and he's taken a team from 42 wins to the Finals. he should be PRAISED for that, not hated on. No one even expected the Lakers to be where they are...PeACe
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i agree kobe does have a bright future ahead of him and he has time to get near jordan's level but until then he aint
first ppl say it depends on the whole team and one person cant do it all.. and now they say he took them to the finals from a 42 win season.. which is it
also after the gasol trade all the laker fans were saying how the lakers have the best team in the league and are gonna win the championship no doubt
some people are good at adapting to situations and coming up with excuses for every scenario
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CAREER #'s
PPG- Jordan 30.1, Kobe 25.0
FG%- Jordan .497 Kobe .453
FT%- Jordan 83% Kobe 83%
3pt%- Jordan 33% Kobe 34%
RPG- Jordan 6.2 Kobe 5.3
APG- Jordan 5.3 Kobe 4.6
SPG- Jordan 2.4 Kobe 1.5
BPG- Jordan .83 Kobe .58
Now it gets real interesting....Here are their playoff stats. Notice that Jordan INCREASES in every category or stays flat....Overrated Kobe actually DROPS IN EVERY CATEGORY.
PPG- Jordan 33.4 Kobe 22.6
FG%- Jordan 49% Kobe 43%
FT%- Jordan 83% Kobe 79%
3pt%-Jordan 33% Kobe 32%
RPG- Jordan 6.4 Kobe 4.8
APG- Jordan 5.7 Kobe 4.4
Awards???/
Jordan- 6 MVP's.....Kobe 1 MVP's
Jordan- 6 Championships......Kobe 3 Championships
Jordan- 9 All NBA 1st team...Kobe 6 times
Jordan- 9 All NBA Defensive 1st team.....Kobe 6 times
Jordan- All-Star every season....Kobe 10 of 12
Jordan- Rookie of the year
Jordan- Defensive player of year
Okay, okay...Jordan played more seasons right? Well he played 15 seasons with 2 of them shortened. So the numbers are vey comparable. I am tired of hearing about this comparison. There are plenty of other players Kobe can be compared to. MJ is not one of them. MJ increased his game when it counted, Kobes game decreases. These are hard numbers. Somebody please try to argue this one.
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some of you lakers groupies iz blinded by being such cocriders. kobe refuses to lose? hahahaha cuzz has LOST 6 of his last NBA FINALS GAMES. yeah, da nicca refuses to lose ::)
not only did jordan dominate the nba as the greatest ever, tha nicca actually went out and WON titles as a LEADER and without a doubt the best player on the team, (kobe still hasnt, people can argue about who was better, clearly shaq) aint nobody have to make up all these complicated what if dream scenarious talkin about 'well if the sun woulda set at 5 55 instead of 5 58 then kobe would have 18 more titles' and 'kobe is the best ever, he has all the best teams when u count them in games they SHOULDA won and COULDA won....[but not that he actually won]"
plus this faggot jew keeps talkin about at 29 bla bla bla, the niccas didn't start at the same ages and kobe's marc ass skipped college, of course he was younger when he rode shaq to 3 titles. the nicca jordan is a college champion and olympic gold medalist too, which all the hall of famers respect. jordan is a champ on the three biggest basketball stages. jordan has 5 mpvs, 6 finals mvps, never missed the playoffs as a bull (with wac ass teams thru the 80s) NEVER LOST in the finals, didn't have shaq to piggybacc on, hahaha the list goes on. kobe meanwhile has ZERO titles as a leader.
as for sayin the nicca took a 42 win team to the finals, nicca get off the bullshit. u jews is known to be liars. u tryin to get moral victories now cuz yo wacc ass team is bein exposed as bitches in the finals. the 42 win team had niccas like brian cook, mo evans, kwame brown, smush parker and shammond williams. stop tryna act like kobe took THOSE niggas or THAT team to the finals hahaha. the nicca had to beg kupchac to make a trade for Gasol and Ariza (two much betta players) so he could stop whinin about bad teammates and fag ass kobe STILL cant win shiet.
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i agree kobe does have a bright future ahead of him and he has time to get near jordan's level but until then he aint
first ppl say it depends on the whole team and one person cant do it all.. and now they say he took them to the finals from a 42 win season.. which is it
also after the gasol trade all the laker fans were saying how the lakers have the best team in the league and are gonna win the championship no doubt
some people are good at adapting to situations and coming up with excuses for every scenario
It's not an excuse...the only reason the Lakers are the best team is because of Kobe. Kobe brought his team a long way, and he should be respected for it, not hated. That's all it comes down to. You guys are acting like Kobe's career is over. As of now, Kobe at 29 is more skilled and accomplished than Jordan at 29. He's on the path to ending his career as the greatest player ever, simple as that.
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The first number is for Jordan. Bryant's number is in parentheses.
NBA championships: 6 (3)
NBA championships won without a first-team All-NBA teammate: 3 (0)
MVPs : 5 (1)
NBA scoring titles: 10 (2)
All-NBA (first team) : 10 (6)
All-Defensive (first team): 9 (6)
NBA steals titles : 3 (0)
Career scoring average : 30.1 (25.0)
Playoff scoring average : 33.4 (24.1)
Career rebound average : 6.2 (5.3)
Career assist average : 5.3 (4.6)
Career field-goal percentage: .497 (.453)
Career free-throw percentage: .835 (.839)
Career 3-point percentage : .327 (.340)
So I guess the answer to the original question would be: Win a whole bunch more championships and some more MVP awards, and then maybe someday we can talk about it. Not today or tomorrow.
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some of you lakers groupies iz blinded by being such cocriders. kobe refuses to lose? hahahaha cuzz has LOST 6 of his last NBA FINALS GAMES. yeah, da nicca refuses to lose ::)
not only did jordan dominate the nba as the greatest ever, tha nicca actually went out and WON titles as a LEADER and without a doubt the best player on the team, (kobe still hasnt, people can argue about who was better, clearly shaq) aint nobody have to make up all these complicated what if dream scenarious talkin about 'well if the sun woulda set at 5 55 instead of 5 58 then kobe would have 18 more titles' and 'kobe is the best ever, he has all the best teams when u count them in games they SHOULDA won and COULDA won....[but not that he actually won]"
plus this faggot jew keeps talkin about at 29 bla bla bla, the niccas didn't start at the same ages and kobe's marc ass skipped college, of course he was younger when he rode shaq to 3 titles. the nicca jordan is a college champion and olympic gold medalist too, which all the hall of famers respect. jordan is a champ on the three biggest basketball stages. jordan has 5 mpvs, 6 finals mvps, never missed the playoffs as a bull (with wac ass teams thru the 80s) NEVER LOST in the finals, didn't have shaq to piggybacc on, hahaha the list goes on. kobe meanwhile has ZERO titles as a leader.
as for sayin the nicca took a 42 win team to the finals, nicca get off the bullshit. u jews is known to be liars. u tryin to get moral victories now cuz yo wacc ass team is bein exposed as bitches in the finals. the 42 win team had niccas like brian cook, mo evans, kwame brown, smush parker and shammond williams. stop tryna act like kobe took THOSE niggas or THAT team to the finals hahaha. the nicca had to beg kupchac to make a trade for Gasol and Ariza (two much betta players) so he could stop whinin about bad teammates and fag ass kobe STILL cant win shiet.
LOL...aren't you the same guy who said the Lakers were gunna fall off quickly when they were the number one seed back in December/January? You kept claiming it was a fluke and shit.. And then you disappeared as soon as you saw they were for real...Now they're in the Finals and you waited until they were down 3-1 to return. LMAO! You're the biggest piece of shit hater ever. If you can't appreciate Kobe for his skill on the court, then there's nothing more to discuss. If you can't admit that getting a team from 42 wins to the Finals is an amazing accomplishment that should be praised, then just kill yourself...PeACe
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The first number is for Jordan. Bryant's number is in parentheses.
NBA championships: 6 (3)
NBA championships won without a first-team All-NBA teammate: 3 (0)
MVPs : 5 (1)
NBA scoring titles: 10 (2)
All-NBA (first team) : 10 (6)
All-Defensive (first team): 9 (6)
NBA steals titles : 3 (0)
Career scoring average : 30.1 (25.0)
Playoff scoring average : 33.4 (24.1)
Career rebound average : 6.2 (5.3)
Career assist average : 5.3 (4.6)
Career field-goal percentage: .497 (.453)
Career free-throw percentage: .835 (.839)
Career 3-point percentage : .327 (.340)
So I guess the answer to the original question would be: Win a whole bunch more championships and some more MVP awards, and then maybe someday we can talk about it. Not today or tomorrow.
COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.
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ur a nutrider tryin to give groupie luv credit to kobe. tryna to say kobe took a 42 win team (of smush parker, kwame brown, brian cook, mo evans and shammond williams-2 who were starters) to the finals by himself without acceptin that the gm made big trades to improve the team enough to actually make it better is some gay kobe stan shiet. kobe didn't take a 42 win team nowhere, he took a new, better team to being PUNKD in the finals by the celtics
thats like sayin paul pierce took a 24 win team to the finals hahaha. i mean pierce replaced 2 starters but kept perkins and rondo...just like the fakers replaced 2 starters for fisher and gaysol. real fans dont say that shiet cuz they know pierce got helped by addin all stars like ray allen and kg. just like kobe got an all star in gaysol and accordin to your jew ass, a "should be all star" in lamar odom.
taking a 24 win team to the finals > taking a 42 win team to the finals. ;)
pierce is a better leader. ahahah.
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ur a nutrider tryin to give groupie luv credit to kobe. tryna to say kobe took a 42 win team (of smush parker, kwame brown, brian cook, mo evans and shammond williams-2 who were starters) to the finals by himself without acceptin that the gm made big trades to improve the team enough to actually make it better is some gay kobe stan shiet. kobe didn't take a 42 win team nowhere, he took a new, better team to being PUNKD in the finals by the celtics
thats like sayin paul pierce took a 24 win team to the finals hahaha. i mean pierce replaced 2 starters but kept perkins and rondo...just like the fakers replaced 2 starters for fisher and gaysol. real fans dont say that shiet cuz they know pierce got helped by addin all stars like ray allen and kg. just like kobe got an all star in gaysol and accordin to your jew ass, a "should be all star" in lamar odom.
taking a 24 win team to the finals > taking a 42 win team to the finals. ;)
pierce is a better leader. ahahah.
WHO WAS THE ONE WHO GOT A TEAM BUILT AROUND KOBE? DUDE TOOK INITIATIVE AND DID IT HIMSELF. Just face it, Kobe is natural born winner. he doesn't settle for less. He plays this game to win and be the best. Pierce isn't even the leader of the Celtics, so try again. In the Finals, Pierce & Allen >>> Odom & Gasol. If you can't see that, then you must be retarded AND blind. Seriously...just give credit where it's due. Are you gunna disappear again with nothing to say after Kobe wills his team to a win tonight? Come on, now.
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pierce is the celtics captain and clear team leader.
takin a 24-win team to the finals > takin a 42 win team.
pierce's team had the greatest turnaround in nba history. kobe led his team to being 2008 nba finals losers.
go type in caps some more, u mad jew? ahaha
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i agree kobe does have a bright future ahead of him and he has time to get near jordan's level but until then he aint
first ppl say it depends on the whole team and one person cant do it all.. and now they say he took them to the finals from a 42 win season.. which is it
also after the gasol trade all the laker fans were saying how the lakers have the best team in the league and are gonna win the championship no doubt
some people are good at adapting to situations and coming up with excuses for every scenario
It's not an excuse...the only reason the Lakers are the best team is because of Kobe. Kobe brought his team a long way, and he should be respected for it, not hated. That's all it comes down to. You guys are acting like Kobe's career is over. As of now, Kobe at 29 is more skilled and accomplished than Jordan at 29. He's on the path to ending his career as the greatest player ever, simple as that.
I'm predicting that the Lakers sweep or win in 5 against the Celtics in the 2008 Finals.
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I think you guys made NIK cry.
***Waits for the lame "Get off my nuts you nutrider. Kobe Rules. 8) " comment.
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CAREER #'s
PPG- Jordan 30.1, Kobe 25.0
FG%- Jordan .497 Kobe .453
FT%- Jordan 83% Kobe 83%
3pt%- Jordan 33% Kobe 34%
RPG- Jordan 6.2 Kobe 5.3
APG- Jordan 5.3 Kobe 4.6
SPG- Jordan 2.4 Kobe 1.5
BPG- Jordan .83 Kobe .58
Now it gets real interesting....Here are their playoff stats. Notice that Jordan INCREASES in every category or stays flat....Overrated Kobe actually DROPS IN EVERY CATEGORY.
PPG- Jordan 33.4 Kobe 22.6
FG%- Jordan 49% Kobe 43%
FT%- Jordan 83% Kobe 79%
3pt%-Jordan 33% Kobe 32%
RPG- Jordan 6.4 Kobe 4.8
APG- Jordan 5.7 Kobe 4.4
Awards???/
Jordan- 6 MVP's.....Kobe 1 MVP's
Jordan- 6 Championships......Kobe 3 Championships
Jordan- 9 All NBA 1st team...Kobe 6 times
Jordan- 9 All NBA Defensive 1st team.....Kobe 6 times
Jordan- All-Star every season....Kobe 10 of 12
Jordan- Rookie of the year
Jordan- Defensive player of year
Okay, okay...Jordan played more seasons right? Well he played 15 seasons with 2 of them shortened. So the numbers are vey comparable. I am tired of hearing about this comparison. There are plenty of other players Kobe can be compared to. MJ is not one of them. MJ increased his game when it counted, Kobes game decreases. These are hard numbers. Somebody please try to argue this one.
wow..its done...arguement over!
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i agree kobe does have a bright future ahead of him and he has time to get near jordan's level but until then he aint
first ppl say it depends on the whole team and one person cant do it all.. and now they say he took them to the finals from a 42 win season.. which is it
also after the gasol trade all the laker fans were saying how the lakers have the best team in the league and are gonna win the championship no doubt
some people are good at adapting to situations and coming up with excuses for every scenario
As of now, Kobe at 29 is more skilled and accomplished than Jordan at 29. He's on the path to ending his career as the greatest player ever, simple as that.
In what way is Kobe more skilled exactly? link?
And yeah, Kobe's TEAMS(anchored by Shaq) have accomplished more than Jordans Teams by 29. Robert Horry TEAMS had accomplished more than Kobe and Jordan teams by age 29. So whatchusayin??
Take those Lakers teams and replace Kobe the sidekick with young healthy Dwayne Wade, Penny, Ray Allen, Grant Hill, T-Mac...and the results would have been the same. Lakers championships with SHAQ GETTIN ALL THE FINALS MVP'S
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CAREER #'s
PPG- Jordan 30.1, Kobe 25.0
FG%- Jordan .497 Kobe .453
FT%- Jordan 83% Kobe 83%
3pt%- Jordan 33% Kobe 34%
RPG- Jordan 6.2 Kobe 5.3
APG- Jordan 5.3 Kobe 4.6
SPG- Jordan 2.4 Kobe 1.5
BPG- Jordan .83 Kobe .58
Now it gets real interesting....Here are their playoff stats. Notice that Jordan INCREASES in every category or stays flat....Overrated Kobe actually DROPS IN EVERY CATEGORY.
PPG- Jordan 33.4 Kobe 22.6
FG%- Jordan 49% Kobe 43%
FT%- Jordan 83% Kobe 79%
3pt%-Jordan 33% Kobe 32%
RPG- Jordan 6.4 Kobe 4.8
APG- Jordan 5.7 Kobe 4.4
Awards???/
Jordan- 6 MVP's.....Kobe 1 MVP's
Jordan- 6 Championships......Kobe 3 Championships
Jordan- 9 All NBA 1st team...Kobe 6 times
Jordan- 9 All NBA Defensive 1st team.....Kobe 6 times
Jordan- All-Star every season....Kobe 10 of 12
Jordan- Rookie of the year
Jordan- Defensive player of year
Okay, okay...Jordan played more seasons right? Well he played 15 seasons with 2 of them shortened. So the numbers are vey comparable. I am tired of hearing about this comparison. There are plenty of other players Kobe can be compared to. MJ is not one of them. MJ increased his game when it counted, Kobes game decreases. These are hard numbers. Somebody please try to argue this one.
wow..its done...arguement over!
What's done? Don't be an idiot and think that comparing Jordan's CAREER achievments to Kobe's is fair when Kobe is only halfway through. Seriously, now.
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pierce is the celtics captain and clear team leader.
takin a 24-win team to the finals > takin a 42 win team.
pierce's team had the greatest turnaround in nba history. kobe led his team to being 2008 nba finals losers.
go type in caps some more, u mad jew? ahaha
Pierce wasn't even the MVP candidate on his team...LMAO@your retarded comparisons and any idiot who eats them up.
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i agree kobe does have a bright future ahead of him and he has time to get near jordan's level but until then he aint
first ppl say it depends on the whole team and one person cant do it all.. and now they say he took them to the finals from a 42 win season.. which is it
also after the gasol trade all the laker fans were saying how the lakers have the best team in the league and are gonna win the championship no doubt
some people are good at adapting to situations and coming up with excuses for every scenario
As of now, Kobe at 29 is more skilled and accomplished than Jordan at 29. He's on the path to ending his career as the greatest player ever, simple as that.
In what way is Kobe more skilled exactly? link?
And yeah, Kobe's TEAMS(anchored by Shaq) have accomplished more than Jordans Teams by 29. Robert Horry TEAMS had accomplished more than Kobe and Jordan teams by age 29. So whatchusayin??
Take those Lakers teams and replace Kobe the sidekick with young healthy Dwayne Wade, Penny, Ray Allen, Grant Hill, T-Mac...and the results would have been the same. Lakers championships with SHAQ GETTIN ALL THE FINALS MVP'S
Kobe is a better shooter, has more range, better dribbles, better drive to the hoop, just the better overall scorer with more in his arsenal. You're claiming that Kobe and T-Mac, Penny, Wade, etc. are on the same level. LMFAO! And people think I'm the one making ridiculous claims? :grumpy: We already saw what Shaq did with Penny and then Wade. NOTHING. Got schooled by Hakeem with Penny and had to take a backseat to Wade to win that 1 fluke title...You're literally insane if you think ANY PLAYER could replace Kobe on those 3peat Laker teams. Wait, you're insane either way. You said Penny could threepeat with Shaq. LOLLLLLL. :puke:
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I didnt say any of those players were as good as Kobe sonny. I'm sayin Kobe was a SIDEKICK on them teams that Shaq was clearly the best player on.
Everybody knows Laker Shaq is in a whole other league than Orlando and Miami Shaq. LOL @ your stupidity. Yeah a young Shaq with Penny got schooled by Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler. Yeah a OLD Shaq got carried by Wade
PRIME Shaq faced Indiana, New Jersey, and Philly in the Finals and destroyed them all
Put any all star wing player in Kobe's place on THAT LAKERS TEAM and they'll do the same thing he did, be a 2nd string sidekick that wins titles with a prime Shaq being the anchor on the team. Yeah...there are no wing players capable of putting up the 22ppg on 41% shooting that the god Kobe put up during those 4 Finals....
Come on son you got to come at me with something substantial...You got to be like 17 years old..lol @ all the gag smileys. The only thing gag worthy is your man lust for Kobe that doesnt allow you and those of your kind to use the other side of your brains and be reasonable in a basketball discussion. Kobe aint even in the top 2 LAKERS of all time, let alone to be the GOAT
And I'm still waiting for you to prove how Kobe is so superior than MJ at EVERYTHING with something other than baseless comments
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Dewayne Wade
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick, I bet Tony Allen coulda replaced him and shit woulda still been the same.
See what I'm dealing with here?
(http://eludevisibility.org/img/smilies/suicide.gif)
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
If Jordan had the most dominant center of all time when he came into the league he would have won earlier than he did. Your arguement that Kobe has more titles at a certain age is completely meaningless. Show me how many rings, how many mvps, and how many finals losses are on MJ's resume.
And since you're the king of woulda coulda shoulda, Jordan would have 8 rings and 7 mvps if he hadn't left in his absolute prime.
LOL, yea right, Jordan would have 8 rings?...That's why he lost won he first came back. ::) If anything, Jordan had time to revitalize himself for the next threepeat with that first retirement. Regardless, Jordan DID need dominant players to succeed. It might not have been a dominant center, but Pippen was a dominant defender and was even considered the 2nd best player in the league behind Jordan when they were on top of shit...MJ might not have Finals losses, but there have been years where he didn't even make the playoffs! Finals losses>Not making the playoffs, so that just kills your whole argument of Finals losses meaning shit. Kobe will have at least 6 rings by the time he retires, and who knows how many MVPS. But MVPs don't mean shit...we all know what those awards mean nowadays...PeACe
Pssh, they didn't win when he came back initially because he didn't come back until like March and was still feeling things out. He showed flashes of brilliance in those games that season, but still was very rusty after completely walking away for 2 seasons.
Jordan 6-0 in the finals
Kobe 3-1 (and about to be 3-2)
So you're saying you'd rather make the playoffs every year and go 3-2 when it came to championships, verses missing playoffs completely (early in your career mind you - you do remember LA / BOSTON / DETROIT teams, correct?) but you were 6-0 in the finals?
I don't think you'll find a single person to back you up on that.
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This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick, I bet Tony Allen coulda replaced him and shit woulda still been the same.
See what I'm dealing with here?
(http://eludevisibility.org/img/smilies/suicide.gif)
Kobe as the leader of his team has exactly the same amount of titles as T-Mac and Penny have as the leaders of their teams, so I guess you could say that.
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
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there 1 and 2 in my mind..jordan was great no doubt it and so is kobe wats the big deal? kobe is the only person usually compared to jordan so i think thats pretty big in its own way
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i gotta go with jordan... it was much harder to score back then with the defensive rules and all, and jordan got his ASS BEAT yet still managed to lead his team to championships i dont think anyone ever could stop michael dude had that awsome fade away jumper and his post game back in those days you had to have one to be a dominant offensive threat was sick (see sam cassell , gary payton)
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there 1 and 2 in my mind..jordan was great no doubt it and so is kobe wats the big deal? kobe is the only person usually compared to jordan so i think thats pretty big in its own way
Kobe is the only person usually compared to Jordan right NOW. There have been tons compared to him in the past. Thing is, Kobe plays the same position as him. So I agree, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever. There usually arent comparisons between Jordan and Wilt. Or any bigmen because you cant compare them. So being compared to Jordan doesnt make u the second best player of all time lolol
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there 1 and 2 in my mind..jordan was great no doubt it and so is kobe wats the big deal? kobe is the only person usually compared to jordan so i think thats pretty big in its own way
Kobe is the only person usually compared to Jordan right NOW. There have been tons compared to him in the past. Thing is, Kobe plays the same position as him. So I agree, Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever. There usually arent comparisons between Jordan and Wilt. Or any bigmen because you cant compare them. So being compared to Jordan doesnt make u the second best player of all time lolol
did i say that ..read my shit...they call jordan the best alltime...obviously u cant compare him to other postions..thats common sense come on....jordan just the most popular player....and i mean kobe is still young so when its all said and done is when u can compare the two.....there both amazing players wats the big deal....
couple classic clips https://www.youtube.com/v/TC-kKQMue4g (http://youtube.com/watch?v=TC-kKQMue4g) https://www.youtube.com/v/ju_rG3DtBnM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju_rG3DtBnM&feature=related)
i mean if there comparin him at 19 you knew he was something special....and like they said there will never be another micheal jordan...its jus liek there wont be another wayne gretzky...they will be the people that everyones compared too... i mean look at babe ruth..others can break his records and shit but hes still called one of the best i mean they dont call bonds one of the best ....its just one of those things....
but ye there both the most exciting players and both are great
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
If Jordan had the most dominant center of all time when he came into the league he would have won earlier than he did. Your arguement that Kobe has more titles at a certain age is completely meaningless. Show me how many rings, how many mvps, and how many finals losses are on MJ's resume.
And since you're the king of woulda coulda shoulda, Jordan would have 8 rings and 7 mvps if he hadn't left in his absolute prime.
LOL, yea right, Jordan would have 8 rings?...That's why he lost won he first came back. ::) If anything, Jordan had time to revitalize himself for the next threepeat with that first retirement. Regardless, Jordan DID need dominant players to succeed. It might not have been a dominant center, but Pippen was a dominant defender and was even considered the 2nd best player in the league behind Jordan when they were on top of shit...MJ might not have Finals losses, but there have been years where he didn't even make the playoffs! Finals losses>Not making the playoffs, so that just kills your whole argument of Finals losses meaning shit. Kobe will have at least 6 rings by the time he retires, and who knows how many MVPS. But MVPs don't mean shit...we all know what those awards mean nowadays...PeACe
Pssh, they didn't win when he came back initially because he didn't come back until like March and was still feeling things out. He showed flashes of brilliance in those games that season, but still was very rusty after completely walking away for 2 seasons.
Jordan 6-0 in the finals
Kobe 3-1 (and about to be 3-2)
So you're saying you'd rather make the playoffs every year and go 3-2 when it came to championships, verses missing playoffs completely (early in your career mind you - you do remember LA / BOSTON / DETROIT teams, correct?) but you were 6-0 in the finals?
I don't think you'll find a single person to back you up on that.
Being to the Finals is greater than getting bounced in the 1st round, which happened to Jordan a few times. WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THAT? When Jordan finally did make it to the Finals, he always had the perfect complimentary players.. he never went through experimental seasons (Payton+Malone) or playing without the 2nd best player on the team (Bynum) throughout his whole career. Pippen was by his side through every single one of those Finals along with an amazing supporting cast. Give Kobe time before you talk shit. As of now, he's on pace to ending his career as the greatest..PeACe
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This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
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i gotta go with jordan... it was much harder to score back then with the defensive rules and all, and jordan got his ASS BEAT yet still managed to lead his team to championships i dont think anyone ever could stop michael dude had that awsome fade away jumper and his post game back in those days you had to have one to be a dominant offensive threat was sick (see sam cassell , gary payton)
Uh, no...With the zone defense rules nowadays, it is HARDER for perimeter players to score. That, along with the fact that you couldn't breathe on Jordan without getting called for a foul (while Kobe consistently gets pounded on drives to the hoop with no calls) makes your whole claim ludicrous.
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kobe lost in the first round the last what, 4 years? and when niccas said lebron was a better lead for actually gettin to the finals but then losing, this jew said just gettin to the finals dont mean shiet, that winning in the finals is what counts for a great leader. but now that his hero is about to get served for his 2nd straight finals loss, its all just about GETTIN there. hahahah, old bacwards ass fag.
how many of yall agree with me when i say this faggot ass jew probly wishes he was the white girl in colorado that kobe raped? only then his superman kobe woulda never been in trouble cuz jewboy woulda been beggin for it. nicca probly searches ebay for used kobe jerseys so he can sniff em.
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some of you lakers groupies iz blinded by being such cocriders. kobe refuses to lose? hahahaha cuzz has LOST 6 of his last NBA FINALS GAMES. yeah, da nicca refuses to lose ::)
not only did jordan dominate the nba as the greatest ever, tha nicca actually went out and WON titles as a LEADER and without a doubt the best player on the team, (kobe still hasnt, people can argue about who was better, clearly shaq) aint nobody have to make up all these complicated what if dream scenarious talkin about 'well if the sun woulda set at 5 55 instead of 5 58 then kobe would have 18 more titles' and 'kobe is the best ever, he has all the best teams when u count them in games they SHOULDA won and COULDA won....[but not that he actually won]"
plus this faggot jew keeps talkin about at 29 bla bla bla, the niccas didn't start at the same ages and kobe's marc ass skipped college, of course he was younger when he rode shaq to 3 titles. the nicca jordan is a college champion and olympic gold medalist too, which all the hall of famers respect. jordan is a champ on the three biggest basketball stages. jordan has 5 mpvs, 6 finals mvps, never missed the playoffs as a bull (with wac ass teams thru the 80s) NEVER LOST in the finals, didn't have shaq to piggybacc on, hahaha the list goes on. kobe meanwhile has ZERO titles as a leader.
as for sayin the nicca took a 42 win team to the finals, nicca get off the bullshit. u jews is known to be liars. u tryin to get moral victories now cuz yo wacc ass team is bein exposed as bitches in the finals. the 42 win team had niccas like brian cook, mo evans, kwame brown, smush parker and shammond williams. stop tryna act like kobe took THOSE niggas or THAT team to the finals hahaha. the nicca had to beg kupchac to make a trade for Gasol and Ariza (two much betta players) so he could stop whinin about bad teammates and fag ass kobe STILL cant win shiet.
CANT SAY IT BETTEr, PERFECT POST
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick, I bet Tony Allen coulda replaced him and shit woulda still been the same.
See what I'm dealing with here?
(http://eludevisibility.org/img/smilies/suicide.gif)
exactly....
i thought u were the kobe fan.... why did you back a perfect argument against him
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plus this faggot jew keeps talkin about at 29 bla bla bla,
LMAO
(http://ourworld.cs.com/DEEEEzzzz%20NuTz/rollin.jpg)
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Wow, Kobe stepped up to dominate ONE game against the Pacers, JOYGASMS. He hit some shotsat times when Shaq was on the bench, PARADE TIME. There's not an elite wingman in the past 15 years besides Bean that could be the man for short spurts. Kobe's 22 ppg on 41% fg in the Finals is a benchmark
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick to an unstoppable Laker Shaq,
Yep :)
and btw lemme know how many Shaq-less back to back 40 point games against the #2 seed in the playoffs the best scorer of all-time Bean has. Penny the scrub awaits your answer....Dont come with regular season numbers either
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kobe lost in the first round the last what, 4 years? and when niccas said lebron was a better lead for actually gettin to the finals but then losing, this jew said just gettin to the finals dont mean shiet, that winning in the finals is what counts for a great leader. but now that his hero is about to get served for his 2nd straight finals loss, its all just about GETTIN there. hahahah, old bacwards ass fag.
how many of yall agree with me when i say this faggot ass jew probly wishes he was the white girl in colorado that kobe raped? only then his superman kobe woulda never been in trouble cuz jewboy woulda been beggin for it. nicca probly searches ebay for used kobe jerseys so he can sniff em.
Kobe lost in the first round the past TWO years (not four)...that's still less than Jordan. LOL. Now think about it.. getting to the Finals in the Eastern conference is cool and all, but it doesn't mean a whole lot. Especially when you get swept once you arrive, because you obviously played lackluster teams to get there. Getting to the Finals in one of the most competitive Western conferences in NBA history is a whole different story. I never said it's all about getting there, cuz clearly, it's NOT. but getting to the Finals is better than not getting to the Finals, so shut your ass up and learn how to comprehend. You obviously love Kobe more than I do...PeACe
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You obviously love Kobe more than I do
kobes parents dont even love him as much as you do
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You obviously love Kobe more than I do
kobes parents dont even love him as much as you do
Is Kobe the greatest player when he steps out on the court? Yes
Are Laker fans spoiled to have him on their team? Yes
Do I love him? No, but you nutriders obviously do
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plus this faggot jew keeps talkin about at 29 bla bla bla,
LMAO
(http://ourworld.cs.com/DEEEEzzzz%20NuTz/rollin.jpg)
Do I turn you on or something? Lets see a pic of you, Elano. I'm sure you're a really cool guy:
(http://www.mystromusic.com/images/nerd4.jpg)
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick, I bet Tony Allen coulda replaced him and shit woulda still been the same.
See what I'm dealing with here?
(http://eludevisibility.org/img/smilies/suicide.gif)
exactly....
i thought u were the kobe fan.... why did you back a perfect argument against him
:stupid:
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick to an unstoppable Laker Shaq,
Yep :)
and btw lemme know how many Shaq-less back to back 40 point games against the #2 seed in the playoffs the best scorer of all-time Bean has. Penny the scrub awaits your answer....Dont come with regular season numbers either
You just agreed that T-Mac and Penny are as clutch and as valuable as Kobe...There's no reasoning with haters such as yourself. End of discussion.
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that guy is trippin
mj >>>> kobe >> lebron> tmac, wade, penny, etc
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lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE
SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???
easy choice id go with SHAQ :)
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This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
Wow...see what us "MJ fans" have to deal? I don't understand why people even BOTHER trying to say anything to you. You got this wall in your head, which blocks any reasoning from getting to you hahaha.
Woooooooow.
Anyways, YOU HAVN'T BROUGHT ANYTHING UP to PROVE KOBE IS BETTER THAN JORDAN...NOTHING!
We've seen what MJ has done by himself...YES...BY HIMSELF...What has Kobe done..by himself int he finals? Nothing yet..thats why we can't even COMPARE the two.
IF...yes IF...the Lakers come back and win this series. Only then can you compare the two. ANy person who watches basketball KNOWS Shaq was a MAJOR part of those 3 titles. If you want to realize it or not.
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mj = goat
kobe sings "i wanna be like mike"
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lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE
SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???
easy choice id go with SHAQ :)
Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.
This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.
Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
Wow...see what us "MJ fans" have to deal? I don't understand why people even BOTHER trying to say anything to you. You got this wall in your head, which blocks any reasoning from getting to you hahaha.
Woooooooow.
Anyways, YOU HAVN'T BROUGHT ANYTHING UP to PROVE KOBE IS BETTER THAN JORDAN...NOTHING!
We've seen what MJ has done by himself...YES...BY HIMSELF...What has Kobe done..by himself int he finals? Nothing yet..thats why we can't even COMPARE the two.
IF...yes IF...the Lakers come back and win this series. Only then can you compare the two. ANy person who watches basketball KNOWS Shaq was a MAJOR part of those 3 titles. If you want to realize it or not.
First of all,we're talking about skill level, not accomplishments.. what don't you get about that? Jordan won all his titles in his 30s. Kobe is as good on the court and is on pace to earning more titles in the near future, on top of the 3 he's already collected. So Shaq played on the Lakers for those three titles, but what about all those arguments that the Bulls team of the 90s were untouchable, better than any of the threepeat Laker teams? How can you even dare to claim Jordan won anything by "himself"? do you realize how absurd YOU sound? Why do you choose to ignore that Pippen was a defensive anchor and a major factor as a facilitator on offense? Jordan had TWO all-stars by his side, with great supporting casts that came through for him in the clutch. I sometimes doubt if some of you guys even saw how huge Kobe would come up in the 4th quarters, making big plays in the most important moments of the game. Once again, just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.
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NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan. Fine, i accept that. Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans. No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.
BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills. Can Kobe still surpass Jordan? Of course he can, and he may very well do so. BUt has a LONG WAYS to go. Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title? All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that. Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.
Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.
As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four. And his numbers go down. I know, it isnt all about numbers granted. BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double. Definitely not what we have seen.
Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series. He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win. BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
lol Mark Jackson and Phil....thats what you got? lol. Mark is a member of the media, his job is to say something shocking, even if it IS stupid. Phil is coaching Kobe NOW. Kobe is known for having the biggest ego in basketball. Doesnt make much coaching sense for Phil to come out and say...."Jordans definetely better then Kobe" lol. More range? Debatable. Jordans fade-away was the second most dangerous weapon in league history. Dribbles? Possibly. But doesnt every player now have better handles then players 10....15....20...30 yrs ago? Its evolution. Slashing to the hoop? Very questionable. Jordan is possibly the best finisher at the hoop ever (Nique might take it). Better scorer? How do you define that? Points? PPG? Kobe=25 PPG. Jordan=30.1. Even if you took Kobe's first 3 seasons out (which you shouldnt), he's still at like 28.1. More titles at a younger age? LOL. Youre really reachin with that one. Horry has more titles then all of them...guess he's better also. Kobe wasnt the main guy on those title teams. Jordan was never the "Robin" on any of his title teams.
Some other categories...
Better Leader-Jordan
Better Defender-Jordan
Better Basketball IQ-Jordan
Respect from teammates/opponents-Jordan
Mental toughness-Jordan
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lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE
SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???
easy choice id go with SHAQ :)
Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.
This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.
Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.
NIK, I know youre a Kobe fan more then youre a Laker fan. And I know you follow Kobe, far more then you follow basketball. But Even IF Kobe in his prime dominates as much as Shaq did in his prime (key word, if)...Kobe would be getting set up by Shaq more then the other way around. An offense runs easier around a dominant bigman then a dominant perimeter player.
On a side note, "on pace" is one of the stupidest sayings ever used in sports. Griffey was "on pace" to shatter Babe Ruths homerun record. Barry Sanders was "on pace" to break the all time rushing record. Kobe Bryant is "on pace" to becoming the second best 2 guard ever.
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NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan. Fine, i accept that. Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans. No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.
BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills. Can Kobe still surpass Jordan? Of course he can, and he may very well do so. BUt has a LONG WAYS to go. Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title? All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that. Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.
Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.
As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four. And his numbers go down. I know, it isnt all about numbers granted. BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double. Definitely not what we have seen.
Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series. He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win. BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be
^Good points. Kobe definitely can play better than he has been in these Finals. I honestly think he's deferring wayyy too much on offense. But even the best of the best can't be perfect... though, there is always a certain aspect of the game the great ones excell in, even when they're not dominating the outlook of it. Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most. He's just been handeling business... the kind of player where he'll ALWAYS do his part and give it his all. Jordan, as of now, is the more ACCOMPLISHED athlete, not the BETTER athlete. At the end of the day, Kobe has a bright future ahead of him. People are forgetting he's still fairly young and keep acting like he's at the end of his career...Give it some time before you talk down upon the best in the business.
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick to an unstoppable Laker Shaq,
Yep :)
and btw lemme know how many Shaq-less back to back 40 point games against the #2 seed in the playoffs the best scorer of all-time Bean has. Penny the scrub awaits your answer....Dont come with regular season numbers either
You just agreed that T-Mac and Penny are as clutch and as valuable as Kobe...There's no reasoning with haters such as yourself. End of discussion.
It's end of discussion because you cant win one against a real basketball fan
T-Mac, Penny, Wade, LeBron, Ray, Pierce couldnt average 22 points on 41% shooting that Kobe put up in the Shaq Finals runs??? Answer Yes or No. Dont dodge the question son
and mentioning clutch, i repeat:
lemme know how many Shaq-less back to back 40 point games against the #2 seed in the playoffs the best scorer of all-time Bean has. Penny the unclutch scrub awaits your answer....Dont come with regular season numbers either
Everybody in this thread is schooling you...We can say the sky is blue and you'll find a way to deny it when it's right in your face obvious
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lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE
SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???
easy choice id go with SHAQ :)
Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.
This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.
Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.
NIK, I know youre a Kobe fan more then youre a Laker fan. And I know you follow Kobe, far more then you follow basketball. But Even IF Kobe in his prime dominates as much as Shaq did in his prime (key word, if)...Kobe would be getting set up by Shaq more then the other way around. An offense runs easier around a dominant bigman then a dominant perimeter player.
On a side note, "on pace" is one of the stupidest sayings ever used in sports. Griffey was "on pace" to shatter Babe Ruths homerun record. Barry Sanders was "on pace" to break the all time rushing record. Kobe Bryant is "on pace" to becoming the second best 2 guard ever.
Everything you just said is wrong...I'm a Laker fan first...that's not even questionable..and Kobe on the perimeter opened the game up for Shaq way more than Shaq opened shit up for Kobe (see Shaq's speedy decline and Kobe's vast improvement after Shaq left LA. LOL). 35+ PPG without Shaq, ToNe... Kobe can drive, shoot, post-up, feed you the ball off a lob, in transition, he has it all. Shaq was also a weak defender who never moved on screen-and-rolls and was the worst help defender a guard could ask for.. while Kobe always shut down the teams best players. But no, of course that doesn't mean shit, right? Kobe, right now, is better skillwise than Jordan was...now it's a matter of whether he can achieve the same in the amount of time he has left. I'd say, Lakers are looking good, and so is Kobe's future in LA...PeACe
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^ Lol @ Kobe being a sidekick, who put up points when Shaq fouled out and got benched cause he couldn't shoot free throws?
Everyone knows T-Mac and Penny woulda' came up just as big in those games, man! I mean, they're just so clutch, Lakers would definitely be a threepeat team regardless!!! Kobe is just a sidekick to an unstoppable Laker Shaq,
Yep :)
and btw lemme know how many Shaq-less back to back 40 point games against the #2 seed in the playoffs the best scorer of all-time Bean has. Penny the scrub awaits your answer....Dont come with regular season numbers either
You just agreed that T-Mac and Penny are as clutch and as valuable as Kobe...There's no reasoning with haters such as yourself. End of discussion.
It's end of discussion because you cant win one against a real basketball fan
T-Mac & Penny couldnt average 22 points on 41% shooting that Kobe put up in the Shaq Finals runs? Dont dodge the question son
and mentioning clutch, i repeat:
lemme know how many Shaq-less back to back 40 point games against the #2 seed in the playoffs the best scorer of all-time Bean has. Penny the scrub awaits your answer....Dont come with regular season numbers either
Everybody in this thread is schooling you...We can say the sky is blue and you'll find a way to deny it when it's right in your face obvious
I'm not gunna sit there and answer your questions of whether Penny or T-Mac are as good as Kobe, LMAO. Even the guy who says MJ is far superior to Kobe pretty much said you're a clown.
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I see you continue to play dodgeball. I gotchu Vanessa....
22ppg, 41% fg's, 0 MVPs, a sidekick= :o UNTOUCHABLE & UNREPLICABLE!!!
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
lol Mark Jackson and Phil....thats what you got? lol. Mark is a member of the media, his job is to say something shocking, even if it IS stupid. Phil is coaching Kobe NOW. Kobe is known for having the biggest ego in basketball. Doesnt make much coaching sense for Phil to come out and say...."Jordans definetely better then Kobe" lol. More range? Debatable. Jordans fade-away was the second most dangerous weapon in league history. Dribbles? Possibly. But doesnt every player now have better handles then players 10....15....20...30 yrs ago? Its evolution. Slashing to the hoop? Very questionable. Jordan is possibly the best finisher at the hoop ever (Nique might take it). Better scorer? How do you define that? Points? PPG? Kobe=25 PPG. Jordan=30.1. Even if you took Kobe's first 3 seasons out (which you shouldnt), he's still at like 28.1. More titles at a younger age? LOL. Youre really reachin with that one. Horry has more titles then all of them...guess he's better also. Kobe wasnt the main guy on those title teams. Jordan was never the "Robin" on any of his title teams.
Some other categories...
Better Leader-Jordan
Better Defender-Jordan
Better Basketball IQ-Jordan
Respect from teammates/opponents-Jordan
Mental toughness-Jordan
Your arguments are baseless and I can rip them to shreds, because they're all based off of ignorance, but I'll put it into perspective for those who actually know something about both Kobe and Jordan with one quote:
More range? Debatable.
LMAO
I'd give you a full reply, but I'm faded and tired right now... You made it pretty easy for me with that one, though.
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I see you continue to play dodgeball. I gotchu Vanessa....
22ppg, 41% fg's, 0 MVPs, a sidekick= :o UNTOUCHABLE!
Did you even watch the games when the threepeat Lakers won rings, or do you just love to hate for the sake of it?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/gamelog;_ylt=Ah8Pi8T2N.Ggf6xfVjJ5C.OkvLYF?year=2001
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/gamelog;_ylt=Ah8Pi8T2N.Ggf6xfVjJ5C.OkvLYF?year=2000
Those look like some great numbers to me. :-*
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No need for me to hate,those are GREAT numbers. Numbers that several top tier wingmen could have dropped due to the D being geared primarily towards an unstoppable 1999-2003 Shaquille O'neal. Why dont the Finals numbers look like that without Shaq?
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:grumpy:
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Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most.
your a clown jewboy, u the same fag that said all season long that lebron wasn't a good defender even tho he averaged more steals a game for the season (meanin he got more steals A GAME) than kobe, u were cryin sayin that steals = a weak defender since your hero kobe had less, now all of a sudden 5 steals = excellent defense?
nigga u flop quicker than fisher and gasol against contact, always changin up yo arguments to dicride kobe.
how yall think this fanboy gonna try to twist this one now? watch the jew say that steals = terrible defense EXCEPT when his mancrush kobe gets them, then they = excellent, greatest defense ever. i bet yall this nicca would dome kobe.
James has more steals and blocks per game, thus being the better defender
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. You sound like you've never watched a basketball game in your life. Seriously, do you realize how stupid that is? Steals and blocks are no way to measure how good a defender is. Any idiot who knows something about basketball can tell you that. It's even very common that players with high defensive stats suck at defense. Steals and blocks are most commonly collected off of gambles, which is usually due to bad defense. Learn some basketball before you post again and make yourself look on BabyG's level.
Chris Paul plays defense? never noticed.
yeah, he leads the league in steals
wow josh smith got dissed BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG time
Okay? Collecting a lot of steals usually means u suck at defense.
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^^^LOL thats exactly what I thought of, but I wasn't about to go dig for those posts.
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Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most.
your a clown jewboy, u the same fag that said all season long that lebron wasn't a good defender even tho he averaged more steals a game for the season (meanin he got more steals A GAME) than kobe, u were cryin sayin that steals = a weak defender since your hero kobe had less, now all of a sudden 5 steals = excellent defense?
nigga u flop quicker than fisher and gasol against contact, always changin up yo arguments to dicride kobe.
how yall think this fanboy gonna try to twist this one now? watch the jew say that steals = terrible defense EXCEPT when his mancrush kobe gets them, then they = excellent, greatest defense ever. i bet yall this nicca would dome kobe.
James has more steals and blocks per game, thus being the better defender
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. You sound like you've never watched a basketball game in your life. Seriously, do you realize how stupid that is? Steals and blocks are no way to measure how good a defender is. Any idiot who knows something about basketball can tell you that. It's even very common that players with high defensive stats suck at defense. Steals and blocks are most commonly collected off of gambles, which is usually due to bad defense. Learn some basketball before you post again and make yourself look on BabyG's level.
Chris Paul plays defense? never noticed.
yeah, he leads the league in steals
wow josh smith got dissed BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG time
Okay? Collecting a lot of steals usually means u suck at defense.
Collecting steals off of gambles is playing bad defense...That's why you'll never see LeBron making an all-defensive team. Kobe is an excellent defender, and his steals are not from playing off of his man. Learn how to comprehend shit so that I don't have to break it down for you, nicca.
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
as usual this gay jew makes shiet up to dicride kobe. I just checced the stats and at 29 years old Jordan already had 2 titles (as the undisputed LEADER/Best player on his team) and he won his 3rd title in 1993, just 4 months after his 30th birthday. meanin the nicca was 29 at the beginning of the year he won his 3rd ring. when u thinc about the fact that jordan didn't start playin as a pro until after college and gay ass kobe came into the league after high school and got luccy enough to ride shaq (clearly the BEST player/LEADER on the 3 lakers titles. the NUMBERS show it), those 4 months aren't that big a difference. so both these niccas basically have 3 titles at 29 years old, but jordan had to do it as the number 1 scorer and OBVIOUS best player, he didn't have a giant like shaq who scored more than 30 ppg and was the finals MVP all three times. Kobe was the sidekicc on those 3 rings, and as we see the last 4 years, when kobe under the age of 29 has to be the CLEAR LEADER/Best player alone on a team, they don't win jacc shiet. if the gay jew wants to be all technical, then when kobe loses this year he'll be 30, meaning him and jordan will both have 3 titles at age 30. difference is when jordan hit 30 he was winning/had won the first of his 3, and went on to never lose a finals he was in after as the leader. kobe won his first 3 with the most dominant center of this generation and won ZERO so far without him in 4 seasons.
COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.
as for they numbers, by age 29 jordan was a 2 time olypmic gold medalist, high school all american (even tho high school stats are pretty useless, since its no where near as hard as the nba or ncaa) ncaa champion, 2 time college player of the year, acc rookie of the year, nba rookie of the year, defensive player of the year, 3 time nba mvp, 2 time finals mvp (4 months after turnin 30 he had his 3rd finals mvp), 3 nba titles, 6 nba scoring titles, all star starter as a rookie, 2 time slam dunk champ, had already averaged 31 ppg in his first finals, finals record 35 points in first half, 35 ppg in his 2nd finals, nba record 41 ppg in his 3rd finals, first player in nba history to have 200 steals and 100 bloccs in one season, is only the 2nd player in nba history besides wilt chamberlain to score 3000 points in one season while averaging 37 ppg. all at age 29.
how many gold medals does kobe have? ncaa championships (2nd hardest basketball championshihp to win) was he rookie of the year? how many seasons did he score 3000 points? how many defensive players of the year? how many FINALS MVPS? how many times has he averaged 41 ppg as the main guy? (if gasol and odom succ so much, kobe should be able to score a lot easy, jordan had to share with pippen and he still averaged 41)
how many titles at 29 does kobe have as the undisputed leader of his team? zero.
how many titles at 29 does jordan have as the undisputed leader of his team? 2 (and 4 months away from his 3rd title)
by the time jordan was 29 he had dominated and won in the ncaa tournament, the olympics AND the nba. he ruled 3 different levels of basketball as an undisputed LEADER and the best player on the team. kobe? not so much cuzz.
case closed, game over. JEW, u lose.
jordan at 29 > kobe at 29.
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NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan. Fine, i accept that. Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans. No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.
BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills. Can Kobe still surpass Jordan? Of course he can, and he may very well do so. BUt has a LONG WAYS to go. Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title? All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that. Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.
Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.
As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four. And his numbers go down. I know, it isnt all about numbers granted. BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double. Definitely not what we have seen.
Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series. He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win. BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be
^Good points. Kobe definitely can play better than he has been in these Finals. I honestly think he's deferring wayyy too much on offense. But even the best of the best can't be perfect... though, there is always a certain aspect of the game the great ones excell in, even when they're not dominating the outlook of it. Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most. He's just been handeling business... the kind of player where he'll ALWAYS do his part and give it his all. Jordan, as of now, is the more ACCOMPLISHED athlete, not the BETTER athlete. At the end of the day, Kobe has a bright future ahead of him. People are forgetting he's still fairly young and keep acting like he's at the end of his career...Give it some time before you talk down upon the best in the business.
NIK, i dont want to get into this with you again man. But i am almost positive you always say that steals actually mean someone is a bad defender, not a good one. But yet when Kobe gets 5 steals, it means he is good? Kobe IS a good defender so its all good, but you know people are going to interpret this as a major bias, right?
help yourself out man, you continually contradict yourself and come off as more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan. everyone is making you look ridiculous again man. Come on, you know it and i know it. It is sad.
And you know what? Kobe may be more skilled then Jordan, but skill is SUBJECTIVE homie. Accomplishments are not. WE can speculate and say KB24 will surpass MJ, but as of now it still isnt even close. MJ LED his team to 5 titles. Kobe hasnt done it once. I am sure he will a few times, but anything can happen. Take this series for instance. I thought Kobe would be unstoppable, but he hasnt even been the best player in the series. Kobe has made me a believer this season; i often find myself defending him. However, how can the undisputed best player in the league not be able to shine on the biggest stage in sports???
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Again, compare them at the end of Kobe's career. As of now, it's not even close when you list accomplishments. You guys with your hypotheticals can blow it out your ass. Base it on what actually transpired, not what could have.
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
as usual this gay jew makes shiet up to dicride kobe. I just checced the stats and at 29 years old Jordan already had 2 titles (as the undisputed LEADER/Best player on his team) and he won his 3rd title in 1993, just 4 months after his 30th birthday. meanin the nicca was 29 at the beginning of the year he won his 3rd ring. when u thinc about the fact that jordan didn't start playin as a pro until after college and gay ass kobe came into the league after high school and got luccy enough to ride shaq (clearly the BEST player/LEADER on the 3 lakers titles. the NUMBERS show it), those 4 months aren't that big a difference. so both these niccas basically have 3 titles at 29 years old, but jordan had to do it as the number 1 scorer and OBVIOUS best player, he didn't have a giant like shaq who scored more than 30 ppg and was the finals MVP all three times. Kobe was the sidekicc on those 3 rings, and as we see the last 4 years, when kobe under the age of 29 has to be the CLEAR LEADER/Best player alone on a team, they don't win jacc shiet. if the gay jew wants to be all technical, then when kobe loses this year he'll be 30, meaning him and jordan will both have 3 titles at age 30. difference is when jordan hit 30 he was winning/had won the first of his 3, and went on to never lose a finals he was in after as the leader. kobe won his first 3 with the most dominant center of this generation and won ZERO so far without him in 4 seasons.
COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.
as for they numbers, by age 29 jordan was a 2 time olypmic gold medalist, high school all american (even tho high school stats are pretty useless, since its no where near as hard as the nba or ncaa) ncaa champion, 2 time college player of the year, acc rookie of the year, nba rookie of the year, defensive player of the year, 3 time nba mvp, 2 time finals mvp (4 months after turnin 30 he had his 3rd finals mvp), 3 nba titles, 6 nba scoring titles, all star starter as a rookie, 2 time slam dunk champ, had already averaged 31 ppg in his first finals, finals record 35 points in first half, 35 ppg in his 2nd finals, nba record 41 ppg in his 3rd finals, first player in nba history to have 200 steals and 100 bloccs in one season, is only the 2nd player in nba history besides wilt chamberlain to score 3000 points in one season while averaging 37 ppg. all at age 29.
how many gold medals does kobe have? ncaa championships (2nd hardest basketball championshihp to win) was he rookie of the year? how many seasons did he score 3000 points? how many defensive players of the year? how many FINALS MVPS? how many times has he averaged 41 ppg as the main guy? (if gasol and odom succ so much, kobe should be able to score a lot easy, jordan had to share with pippen and he still averaged 41)
how many titles at 29 does kobe have as the undisputed leader of his team? zero.
how many titles at 29 does jordan have as the undisputed leader of his team? 2 (and 4 months away from his 3rd title)
by the time jordan was 29 he had dominated and won in the ncaa tournament, the olympics AND the nba. he ruled 3 different levels of basketball as an undisputed LEADER and the best player on the team. kobe? not so much cuzz.
case closed, game over. JEW, u lose.
jordan at 29 > kobe at 29.
^You are the biggest hater with the dumbest arguments ever...Kobe didn't win an NCAA championship because he didn't play in the NCAA. Kobe didn't win rookie of the year award cuz he started off the bench, straight outta high school. Kobe hasn't even had the opportunity to play for a gold medal yet. How can you even use those pathetic arguments against him without feeling ashamed of yourself? You use Shaq being on the Lakers against Kobe when it's convenient, but when it comes to Shaq getting most of the shooting touches and demanding the offense run through him (even when Phil wanted it running through Kobe), you somehow forget to bring up the fact that it subtracted from Kobe's overall averages. Pippen was a facilitator, he helped Jordan score. Shaq was a ball-dominant scorer, he demanded touches that woulda been Kobe's otherwise. Jordan never had to play and prove he can co-exist with a player like that. He never had to put his skill in check and defer to an egotistical character such as Shaq. Kobe does whatever it takes to win, no matter what. This year, we're playing without our starting center, and we're still in the Finals. That's something Kobe deserves CREDIT for, not BLAME, cuzzzzz...PeACe
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NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan. Fine, i accept that. Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans. No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.
BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills. Can Kobe still surpass Jordan? Of course he can, and he may very well do so. BUt has a LONG WAYS to go. Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title? All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that. Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.
Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.
As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four. And his numbers go down. I know, it isnt all about numbers granted. BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double. Definitely not what we have seen.
Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series. He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win. BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be
^Good points. Kobe definitely can play better than he has been in these Finals. I honestly think he's deferring wayyy too much on offense. But even the best of the best can't be perfect... though, there is always a certain aspect of the game the great ones excell in, even when they're not dominating the outlook of it. Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most. He's just been handeling business... the kind of player where he'll ALWAYS do his part and give it his all. Jordan, as of now, is the more ACCOMPLISHED athlete, not the BETTER athlete. At the end of the day, Kobe has a bright future ahead of him. People are forgetting he's still fairly young and keep acting like he's at the end of his career...Give it some time before you talk down upon the best in the business.
NIK, i dont want to get into this with you again man. But i am almost positive you always say that steals actually mean someone is a bad defender, not a good one. But yet when Kobe gets 5 steals, it means he is good? Kobe IS a good defender so its all good, but you know people are going to interpret this as a major bias, right?
help yourself out man, you continually contradict yourself and come off as more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan. everyone is making you look ridiculous again man. Come on, you know it and i know it. It is sad.
And you know what? Kobe may be more skilled then Jordan, but skill is SUBJECTIVE homie. Accomplishments are not. WE can speculate and say KB24 will surpass MJ, but as of now it still isnt even close. MJ LED his team to 5 titles. Kobe hasnt done it once. I am sure he will a few times, but anything can happen. Take this series for instance. I thought Kobe would be unstoppable, but he hasnt even been the best player in the series. Kobe has made me a believer this season; i often find myself defending him. However, how can the undisputed best player in the league not be able to shine on the biggest stage in sports???
Like I said...steals you collect off of gambling and playing off your man are a result of bad defense. Kobe is a great defender and all his steals are clean steals. It might sound bias, but it is what it is. Kobe is not playing his best ball, I already admitted that, but he IS getting double teamed instantly with suffocating defense, and he's been imposing his will in other aspects, even when he's not scoring big (a 10 assist game, a 5 steal game, etc.)... As of now, the games the Lakers lost are the games where Gasol and Odom played like complete shit. I find myself wondering why Kobe is deferring so much, but in the same breath, I answer my own question... Lakers can't win without Gasol and Odom and someone has to get them going off. Kobe can go off at anytime, but it'll take a collective team effort to win. Just like in Game 4, when LA choked the lead away. Kobe went for 10 in the 4th quarter of that game, more than he scored in the first 3 quarters combined, but it was Odom and Gasol who let down and stopped performing...Just give it time before you say they're not on the same level. I've always said, Kobe placed under MJ's circumstances woulda had more titles than Jordan collected. That's just my opinion, and whether you think it's bias or not, it's what I truly think after watching Kobe all these years...PeACe
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NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan. Fine, i accept that. Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans. No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.
BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills. Can Kobe still surpass Jordan? Of course he can, and he may very well do so. BUt has a LONG WAYS to go. Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title? All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that. Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.
Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.
As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four. And his numbers go down. I know, it isnt all about numbers granted. BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double. Definitely not what we have seen.
Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series. He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win. BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be
^Good points. Kobe definitely can play better than he has been in these Finals. I honestly think he's deferring wayyy too much on offense. But even the best of the best can't be perfect... though, there is always a certain aspect of the game the great ones excell in, even when they're not dominating the outlook of it. Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most. He's just been handeling business... the kind of player where he'll ALWAYS do his part and give it his all. Jordan, as of now, is the more ACCOMPLISHED athlete, not the BETTER athlete. At the end of the day, Kobe has a bright future ahead of him. People are forgetting he's still fairly young and keep acting like he's at the end of his career...Give it some time before you talk down upon the best in the business.
NIK, i dont want to get into this with you again man. But i am almost positive you always say that steals actually mean someone is a bad defender, not a good one. But yet when Kobe gets 5 steals, it means he is good? Kobe IS a good defender so its all good, but you know people are going to interpret this as a major bias, right?
help yourself out man, you continually contradict yourself and come off as more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan. everyone is making you look ridiculous again man. Come on, you know it and i know it. It is sad.
And you know what? Kobe may be more skilled then Jordan, but skill is SUBJECTIVE homie. Accomplishments are not. WE can speculate and say KB24 will surpass MJ, but as of now it still isnt even close. MJ LED his team to 5 titles. Kobe hasnt done it once. I am sure he will a few times, but anything can happen. Take this series for instance. I thought Kobe would be unstoppable, but he hasnt even been the best player in the series. Kobe has made me a believer this season; i often find myself defending him. However, how can the undisputed best player in the league not be able to shine on the biggest stage in sports???
Like I said...steals you collect off of gambling and playing off your man are a result of bad defense. Kobe is a great defender and all his steals are clean steals. It might sound bias, but it is what it is. Kobe is not playing his best ball, I already admitted that, but he IS getting double teamed instantly with suffocating defense, and he's been imposing his will in other aspects, even when he's not scoring big (a 10 assist game, a 5 steal game, etc.)... As of now, the games the Lakers lost are the games where Gasol and Odom played like complete shit. I find myself wondering why Kobe is deferring so much, but in the same breath, I answer my own question... Lakers can't win without Gasol and Odom and someone has to get them going off. Kobe can go off at anytime, but it'll take a collective team effort to win. Just like in Game 4, when LA choked the lead away. Kobe went for 10 in the 4th quarter of that game, more than he scored in the first 3 quarters combined, but it was Odom and Gasol who let down and stopped performing...Just give it time before you say they're not on the same level. I've always said, Kobe placed under MJ's circumstances woulda had more titles than Jordan collected. That's just my opinion, and whether you think it's bias or not, it's what I truly think after watching Kobe all these years...PeACe
Dude, i get what you are saying. But common sense says it is YOU who should give it time before you say they ARE on the same level. Ask anyone in the NBA, they all know dudes from the playground with more ABILITY, SKILL, TALENT, etc. Those things alone dont make you the greatest player in the history of the game, which is what MJ is until Kobe, or maybe even Lebron passes him. And if i have to give Kobe time, you best do the same for LBJ because he is sick and getting better.
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^You are the biggest hater with the dumbest arguments ever...Kobe didn't win an NCAA championship because he didn't play in the NCAA. Kobe didn't win rookie of the year award cuz he started off the bench, straight outta high school. Kobe hasn't even had the opportunity to play for a gold medal yet. How can you even use those pathetic arguments against him without feeling ashamed of yourself? You use Shaq being on the Lakers against Kobe when it's convenient, but when it comes to Shaq getting most of the shooting touches and demanding the offense run through him (even when Phil wanted it running through Kobe), you somehow forget to bring up the fact that it subtracted from Kobe's overall averages. Pippen was a facilitator, he helped Jordan score. Shaq was a ball-dominant scorer, he demanded touches that woulda been Kobe's otherwise. Jordan never had to play and prove he can co-exist with a player like that. He never had to put his skill in check and defer to an egotistical character such as Shaq. Kobe does whatever it takes to win, no matter what. This year, we're playing without our starting center, and we're still in the Finals. That's something Kobe deserves CREDIT for, not BLAME, cuzzzzz...PeACe
dumbest arguments? like making up lies about jordan's # of titles at 29 to make kobe look better? nah, thats u jewboy.
hahaha @ u piccin and choosin numbers now. i like how u ignore the fact that ur jew ass was wrong about jordan's number of titles at 29. plus like i said this year when kobe loses to the c's he'll be 30 with 3 rings, just like jordan at 30. except jordan didnt have a monster center like shaq to ride to 3 rings (shaq's numbers were always bigger than kobe's and he was the clear finals mvp each year). so jordan as a leader at 29 > kobe as a leader at 29.
now u wanna ignore the NUMBERS at 29, makin excuses for the fact kobe has NOWHERE near the all around basketball accomplishments or numbers at 29 that jordan did. even if u wanna conveniently ignore the fact that at 29 he was already a 2 time olympic gold medalist, ncaa champion, acc rookie of the year and 2 time college player of the year, theres still a GANG more shit he did.
at 29 jordan was a 2 time(about to be 3) nba world champion, nba rookie of the year, 3 time mvp, 3 time finals mvp, 6 time scorin champion, all time finals ppg leader(41/game) only the 2nd player ever to score 3000 points in a season, nba defensive player of the year, only player to ever have 200 steals and 100 blocs in one season, all star starter as a rookie, 2 time slam dunk champion, at 29 jordan had lost ZERO of the finals he had played in, kobe at 29 already lost 1 and is about to lose his 2nd. what a winner ::) how many of those things is kobe at 29? hahahaha.
jordan finals record at 30 = 3-0 (3-0 as leader)
kobe finals record at 30 = 3-1(probably about to be 3-2) (0 as leader, about to be 0-1)
like i said cuzz, when u look at basketball numbers and accomplishments, jordan had far more at 29/30 than kobe does at 29/30.
jordan at this age > kobe at the same age
take the L you bitch ass nicca, everybody else is laughin at yo jew ass avoidin the NUMBERS showin jordan easily ahead of kobe at 29. go cry in your kobe towel
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NIK, i agree with you that Kobe is arguably more talented or skilled then Jordan. Fine, i accept that. Watching him is like watching Jordan, a clone almost, and i think that is why Jordan fans get a bit touchy, and same with Kobe fans. No one wants "their" guy to not be cionsidered the best.
BUT, in the end its all about results and accomplishments, not skills. Can Kobe still surpass Jordan? Of course he can, and he may very well do so. BUt has a LONG WAYS to go. Yes, Jordan had help, but name a one man bball team who has one a title? All i know is Jordan was the MAIN factor and if you watched those games and series you know that. Especially the one against the Jazz where he scored ALL of the big baskets.
Jordan PPG, APG, RPG all went up in the playoffs, and he was far and away the best player in 6 finals series.
As of now, Kobe has never been the best player in a finals series despite being in four. And his numbers go down. I know, it isnt all about numbers granted. BUt we have all watched the series and Kobe has not been great. I was expecting, an i am sure we all were, a 400 ppg avg, or maybe close to a triple double. Definitely not what we have seen.
Kobe himself will tell you he hasnt played well this series. He has had spurts, and made a huge steal last night to cement the win. BUt he has not been nearly as good so far as he should be
^Good points. Kobe definitely can play better than he has been in these Finals. I honestly think he's deferring wayyy too much on offense. But even the best of the best can't be perfect... though, there is always a certain aspect of the game the great ones excell in, even when they're not dominating the outlook of it. Just like Kobe, with his excellent defense last night (5 steals). Kobe is known to step up to the plate when it counts most. He's just been handeling business... the kind of player where he'll ALWAYS do his part and give it his all. Jordan, as of now, is the more ACCOMPLISHED athlete, not the BETTER athlete. At the end of the day, Kobe has a bright future ahead of him. People are forgetting he's still fairly young and keep acting like he's at the end of his career...Give it some time before you talk down upon the best in the business.
NIK, i dont want to get into this with you again man. But i am almost positive you always say that steals actually mean someone is a bad defender, not a good one. But yet when Kobe gets 5 steals, it means he is good? Kobe IS a good defender so its all good, but you know people are going to interpret this as a major bias, right?
help yourself out man, you continually contradict yourself and come off as more of a Kobe fan than a Laker fan. everyone is making you look ridiculous again man. Come on, you know it and i know it. It is sad.
And you know what? Kobe may be more skilled then Jordan, but skill is SUBJECTIVE homie. Accomplishments are not. WE can speculate and say KB24 will surpass MJ, but as of now it still isnt even close. MJ LED his team to 5 titles. Kobe hasnt done it once. I am sure he will a few times, but anything can happen. Take this series for instance. I thought Kobe would be unstoppable, but he hasnt even been the best player in the series. Kobe has made me a believer this season; i often find myself defending him. However, how can the undisputed best player in the league not be able to shine on the biggest stage in sports???
Like I said...steals you collect off of gambling and playing off your man are a result of bad defense. Kobe is a great defender and all his steals are clean steals. It might sound bias, but it is what it is. Kobe is not playing his best ball, I already admitted that, but he IS getting double teamed instantly with suffocating defense, and he's been imposing his will in other aspects, even when he's not scoring big (a 10 assist game, a 5 steal game, etc.)... As of now, the games the Lakers lost are the games where Gasol and Odom played like complete shit. I find myself wondering why Kobe is deferring so much, but in the same breath, I answer my own question... Lakers can't win without Gasol and Odom and someone has to get them going off. Kobe can go off at anytime, but it'll take a collective team effort to win. Just like in Game 4, when LA choked the lead away. Kobe went for 10 in the 4th quarter of that game, more than he scored in the first 3 quarters combined, but it was Odom and Gasol who let down and stopped performing...Just give it time before you say they're not on the same level. I've always said, Kobe placed under MJ's circumstances woulda had more titles than Jordan collected. That's just my opinion, and whether you think it's bias or not, it's what I truly think after watching Kobe all these years...PeACe
Dude, i get what you are saying. But common sense says it is YOU who should give it time before you say they ARE on the same level. Ask anyone in the NBA, they all know dudes from the playground with more ABILITY, SKILL, TALENT, etc. Those things alone dont make you the greatest player in the history of the game, which is what MJ is until Kobe, or maybe even Lebron passes him. And if i have to give Kobe time, you best do the same for LBJ because he is sick and getting better.
I'm saying they're on the same level skillwise (Kobe actually having the edge), which even you acknowledged is definitely debatable, and that he's on pace to ending his career as the GOAT. Why do I need to wait to say that? It's the people who say he's out of the question and not in the runnings who need to let up, homie...That's unfair, above everything else. I'm giving LBJ time too, because sky is the limit for him... but as of now, he's nowhere near Kobe or Jordan skillwise...PeACe
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^You are the biggest hater with the dumbest arguments ever...Kobe didn't win an NCAA championship because he didn't play in the NCAA. Kobe didn't win rookie of the year award cuz he started off the bench, straight outta high school. Kobe hasn't even had the opportunity to play for a gold medal yet. How can you even use those pathetic arguments against him without feeling ashamed of yourself? You use Shaq being on the Lakers against Kobe when it's convenient, but when it comes to Shaq getting most of the shooting touches and demanding the offense run through him (even when Phil wanted it running through Kobe), you somehow forget to bring up the fact that it subtracted from Kobe's overall averages. Pippen was a facilitator, he helped Jordan score. Shaq was a ball-dominant scorer, he demanded touches that woulda been Kobe's otherwise. Jordan never had to play and prove he can co-exist with a player like that. He never had to put his skill in check and defer to an egotistical character such as Shaq. Kobe does whatever it takes to win, no matter what. This year, we're playing without our starting center, and we're still in the Finals. That's something Kobe deserves CREDIT for, not BLAME, cuzzzzz...PeACe
dumbest arguments? like making up lies about jordan's # of titles at 29 to make kobe look better? nah, thats u jewboy.
hahaha @ u piccin and choosin numbers now. i like how u ignore the fact that ur jew ass was wrong about jordan's number of titles at 29. plus like i said this year when kobe loses to the c's he'll be 30 with 3 rings, just like jordan at 30. except jordan didnt have a monster center like shaq to ride to 3 rings (shaq's numbers were always bigger than kobe's and he was the clear finals mvp each year). so jordan as a leader at 29 > kobe as a leader at 29.
now u wanna ignore the NUMBERS at 29, makin excuses for the fact kobe has NOWHERE near the all around basketball accomplishments or numbers at 29 that jordan did. even if u wanna conveniently ignore the fact that at 29 he was already a 2 time olympic gold medalist, ncaa champion, acc rookie of the year and 2 time college player of the year, theres still a GANG more shit he did.
at 29 jordan was a 2 time(about to be 3) nba world champion, nba rookie of the year, 3 time mvp, 3 time finals mvp, 6 time scorin champion, all time finals ppg leader(41/game) only the 2nd player ever to score 3000 points in a season, nba defensive player of the year, only player to ever have 200 steals and 100 blocs in one season, all star starter as a rookie, 2 time slam dunk champion, at 29 jordan had lost ZERO of the finals he had played in, kobe at 29 already lost 1 and is about to lose his 2nd. what a winner ::) how many of those things is kobe at 29? hahahaha.
jordan finals record at 30 = 3-0 (3-0 as leader)
kobe finals record at 30 = 3-1(probably about to be 3-2) (0 as leader, about to be 0-1)
like i said cuzz, when u look at basketball numbers and accomplishments, jordan had far more at 29/30 than kobe does at 29/30.
jordan at this age > kobe at the same age
take the L you bitch ass nicca, everybody else is laughin at yo jew ass avoidin the NUMBERS showin jordan easily ahead of kobe at 29. go cry in your kobe towel
I didn't lie about anything, I was 1 year off...still, the point was that Kobe has collected more titles than Jordan has at the same age. And Kobe wasn't handed a team built around him right off the bat. If he did, I could argue he'd have 5-6+ titles by now. The fact of the matter is that winning rings is no way to measure who's greater as an individual talent. When you compare who had the better career (after Kobe retires), you can talk about that, but in terms of talent, that simply doesn't factor into the equation...of course, you're way too stupid and below me to understand jack shit about what I'm saying, so I'll leave it at that. Just realize how stupid you sound using Jordan's NCAA titles and gold medals against Kobe when Kobe never even had the chance to play in an NCAA or olympic game...Kobe has also broken many of Jordan's records, as well. Games in a row with 50+, 35+, highest scoring total in a game, 3 quarter scoring total, etc. etc....accomplishments and statistics is not what measures talent, though. Watching the players play is how you do it. You'll never understand this and I don't expect you to...PeACe
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I didn't lie about anything, I was 1 year off...still, the point was that Kobe has collected more titles than Jordan has at the same age. And Kobe wasn't handed a team built around him right off the bat. If he did, I could argue he'd have 5-6+ titles by now. The fact of the matter is that winning rings is no way to measure who's greater as an individual talent. When you compare who had the better career (after Kobe retires), you can talk about that, but in terms of talent, that simply doesn't factor into the equation...of course, you're way too stupid and below me to understand jack shit about what I'm saying, so I'll leave it at that. Just realize how stupid you sound using Jordan's NCAA titles and gold medals against Kobe when Kobe never even had the chance to play in an NCAA or olympic game...Kobe has also broken many of Jordan's records, as well. Games in a row with 50+, 35+, highest scoring total in a game, 3 quarter scoring total, etc. etc....accomplishments and statistics is not what measures talent, though. Watching the players play is how you do it. You'll never understand this and I don't expect you to...PeACe
hahaha, look at yo jew ass bactracc quic as fuc. first u said
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
which is wrong, and u still wrong saying kobe has more titles at the same age, like i just pointed out 3 times for ur slow jew ass, kobe at 29/30 has 3 titles (thanks to shaq) and jordan had 3 titles at 29/30. i dont need to make up shiet like u, talkin about 'well if this and if that, i imagine kobe woulda had bla bla bla"...nicca this is the real world, not no kobeland that u live in. in the REAL world, kobe was handed 3 titles as shaq's sidekicc, and he hasn't silence no one cuz he still cant win just ONE without shaq in 5 years. shaq even left and got another ring with wade replacing kobe. im sure yo groupie ass COULD argue about kobe having 5 or 6 make believe titles right now, just like u can dream that u'll wake up next to kobe in bed, but it aint REALITY.
hahaha @ u NOW sayin u wanna talk about who had the better 'career' after kobe retires, but just before that u were saying...
COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.
once i showed u that the NUMBERS at 29 CLEARLY show jordan was better at the same age in every single category, you bactrac. i didnt use the ncaa shit or olympic, if ur gay jew ass woulda actually READ the shiet instead of jaccin off to kobe videos on youtube, u woulda seen that i said "even if u ignore the accomplishments at 29 like ncaa titles, players of the year and 2 gold medals) which is real convenient by the way, even without those numbers, jordan's accomplishents/NUMBERS at 29 still shiet all over kobe. isn't that what u said to do, compare their numbers with jordan at 29, dipshiet? hahaha, u said to compare the numbers, and now u wanan say its not about numbers. groupie bitch
u lose, wrap it up cuzz, u look desperate.
once again, jordan at 29 > kobe at 29. the NUMBERS show it. keep on dreamin tho, im sure u can imagine some nice what ifs, meanwhile everybody who aint a gay homer will look at the real shiet. you lose.
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^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe
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^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe
u aint very smart are u jew? first off kobe may have broken SOME of jordan's records, but he hasn't broken a MAJORITY of the records jordan had at 29. its been proven in this topic that u just say false shiet (# of jordan titles at 29) and hope nobody calls ur pathetic ass on the truth. like i said with the age shiet, after kobe loses to the celtics, he'll have 3 titles at 30 years old, the SAME as jordan. and the whole point that ur jew ass dont get is that its not fair to compare 2 players agewise when one started much earlier than the other in the NBA, just like i didnt actually compare jordans ncaa shit to kobe, since kobe skipped college. u may wanna get all technical about 4 months cuz it makes kobe look better and your in love with him, but its some gay shiet to try and sneak out the reality, which is that jordan ACCOMPLISHED more than kobe at the same age. so kobe hasn't "clearly done better by this age". you measure who is better by your personal, biased opinion from watchin them? hahahaha, if thats the best way to measure players, people might as well stop taking stats. u dumbfucc, opinions are like assholes, thats why niccas keep stats to BACC OPINIONS UP. you keep sayin shiet with no FACTS, like "kobe has done more in his nba career than jordan" except thats about as true as your fake jordan title count. i LISTED jordan's UNMATCHED nba accomplishments because MY ARGUMENT is that jordan is better at the same age. if i was arguin that KOBE IS BETTER, than i woulda listed PROOF to bacc up that shiet. you cant do that cuz that 'proof' dont exist, or as u like to put it, it's 'FUTURE PROOF' ahahahha. what the fuc is future proof? the reality is jordan has more unmatched NBA records at 29 than kobe does. kobe might have some, but jordan has MORE. get it?
jordan's nba accomplishments at 29 > kobe's nba accomplishments at 29 (i posted PROOF, you posted jacc shiet except your groupie luv opinion)
since ur too dumb to realize that comparin age accomplishments for people who started their nba careers at different ages is stupid (even tho the NUMBERS show jordan did more at the same age) i'll break it down real simple fo yo jewbacca ass.
jordan in first 9 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as UNDISPUTED leader, all with nba finals records and 3 nba finals mvps aka BEST player on biggest nba stage) he also had 6 titles in his first 13 seasons, which is double kobe's number of titles in teh same amount of years)
kobe in first 12 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as shaq's sidekicc. less points and ZERO finals mvps aka NOT THE BEST player on biggest nba stage)
so jordan had the same number of titles in 3 less seasons, and double the kobe titles in the same amount of time. even if kobe wins next year, he'll have 4 rings in 13 seasons, when jordan had 6 in 13 seasons.
thats undisputedly proof that in the same amount of total seasons(actually 3 seasons less), jordan had more rings, more scoring titles, more mvps, more defensive players of the year, more rookie of the year, more seasons scoring 3000 points, more finals mvps, more finals records, LESS FINALS LOSSES.
however you wanan look at it, jordan has better numbers in the same or less amount of seasons/same point in career vs kobes.
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I didn't lie about anything, I was 1 year off...still, the point was that Kobe has collected more titles than Jordan has at the same age. And Kobe wasn't handed a team built around him right off the bat. If he did, I could argue he'd have 5-6+ titles by now. The fact of the matter is that winning rings is no way to measure who's greater as an individual talent. When you compare who had the better career (after Kobe retires), you can talk about that, but in terms of talent, that simply doesn't factor into the equation...of course, you're way too stupid and below me to understand jack shit about what I'm saying, so I'll leave it at that. Just realize how stupid you sound using Jordan's NCAA titles and gold medals against Kobe when Kobe never even had the chance to play in an NCAA or olympic game...Kobe has also broken many of Jordan's records, as well. Games in a row with 50+, 35+, highest scoring total in a game, 3 quarter scoring total, etc. etc....accomplishments and statistics is not what measures talent, though. Watching the players play is how you do it. You'll never understand this and I don't expect you to...PeACe
hahaha, look at yo jew ass bactracc quic as fuc. first u said
Lets see...Jordan@29=1 title. Kobe@29=3 titles...Still LOL@"not close when you list accomplishments".
which is wrong, and u still wrong saying kobe has more titles at the same age, like i just pointed out 3 times for ur slow jew ass, kobe at 29/30 has 3 titles (thanks to shaq) and jordan had 3 titles at 29/30. i dont need to make up shiet like u, talkin about 'well if this and if that, i imagine kobe woulda had bla bla bla"...nicca this is the real world, not no kobeland that u live in. in the REAL world, kobe was handed 3 titles as shaq's sidekicc, and he hasn't silence no one cuz he still cant win just ONE without shaq in 5 years. shaq even left and got another ring with wade replacing kobe. im sure yo groupie ass COULD argue about kobe having 5 or 6 make believe titles right now, just like u can dream that u'll wake up next to kobe in bed, but it aint REALITY.
hahaha @ u NOW sayin u wanna talk about who had the better 'career' after kobe retires, but just before that u were saying...
COMPARE THEIR NUMBERS WITH JORDAN AT 29, DIPSHIT, NOT WHEN HE'S DONE WITH HIS CAREER.
once i showed u that the NUMBERS at 29 CLEARLY show jordan was better at the same age in every single category, you bactrac. i didnt use the ncaa shit or olympic, if ur gay jew ass woulda actually READ the shiet instead of jaccin off to kobe videos on youtube, u woulda seen that i said "even if u ignore the accomplishments at 29 like ncaa titles, players of the year and 2 gold medals) which is real convenient by the way, even without those numbers, jordan's accomplishents/NUMBERS at 29 still shiet all over kobe. isn't that what u said to do, compare their numbers with jordan at 29, dipshiet? hahaha, u said to compare the numbers, and now u wanan say its not about numbers. groupie bitch
u lose, wrap it up cuzz, u look desperate.
once again, jordan at 29 > kobe at 29. the NUMBERS show it. keep on dreamin tho, im sure u can imagine some nice what ifs, meanwhile everybody who aint a gay homer will look at the real shiet. you lose.
And on top of all that, his shoes are way better and McDonald's needs to bring back the Gold Medal Meal that came with the plastic Dream Team cups in 1992.
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^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe
u aint very smart are u jew? first off kobe may have broken SOME of jordan's records, but he hasn't broken a MAJORITY of the records jordan had at 29. its been proven in this topic that u just say false shiet (# of jordan titles at 29) and hope nobody calls ur pathetic ass on the truth. like i said with the age shiet, after kobe loses to the celtics, he'll have 3 titles at 30 years old, the SAME as jordan. and the whole point that ur jew ass dont get is that its not fair to compare 2 players agewise when one started much earlier than the other in the NBA, just like i didnt actually compare jordans ncaa shit to kobe, since kobe skipped college. u may wanna get all technical about 4 months cuz it makes kobe look better and your in love with him, but its some gay shiet to try and sneak out the reality, which is that jordan ACCOMPLISHED more than kobe at the same age. so kobe hasn't "clearly done better by this age". you measure who is better by your personal, biased opinion from watchin them? hahahaha, if thats the best way to measure players, people might as well stop taking stats. u dumbfucc, opinions are like assholes, thats why niccas keep stats to BACC OPINIONS UP. you keep sayin shiet with no FACTS, like "kobe has done more in his nba career than jordan" except thats about as true as your fake jordan title count. i LISTED jordan's UNMATCHED nba accomplishments because MY ARGUMENT is that jordan is better at the same age. if i was arguin that KOBE IS BETTER, than i woulda listed PROOF to bacc up that shiet. you cant do that cuz that 'proof' dont exist, or as u like to put it, it's 'FUTURE PROOF' ahahahha. what the fuc is future proof? the reality is jordan has more unmatched NBA records at 29 than kobe does. kobe might have some, but jordan has MORE. get it?
jordan's nba accomplishments at 29 > kobe's nba accomplishments at 29 (i posted PROOF, you posted jacc shiet except your groupie luv opinion)
since ur too dumb to realize that comparin age accomplishments for people who started their nba careers at different ages is stupid (even tho the NUMBERS show jordan did more at the same age) i'll break it down real simple fo yo jewbacca ass.
jordan in first 9 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as UNDISPUTED leader, all with nba finals records and 3 nba finals mvps aka BEST player on biggest nba stage) he also had 6 titles in his first 13 seasons, which is double kobe's number of titles in teh same amount of years)
kobe in first 12 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as shaq's sidekicc. less points and ZERO finals mvps aka NOT THE BEST player on biggest nba stage)
so jordan had the same number of titles in 3 less seasons, and double the kobe titles in the same amount of time. even if kobe wins next year, he'll have 4 rings in 13 seasons, when jordan had 6 in 13 seasons.
thats undisputedly proof that in the same amount of total seasons(actually 3 seasons less), jordan had more rings, more scoring titles, more mvps, more defensive players of the year, more rookie of the year, more seasons scoring 3000 points, more finals mvps, more finals records, LESS FINALS LOSSES.
however you wanan look at it, jordan has better numbers in the same or less amount of seasons/same point in career vs kobes.
LOL @ you having the audacity to make sense. Facts are meaningless to a Kobe stan
"bu-bu-bu-but Kobe, bu-bu-but...."
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lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE
SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???
easy choice id go with SHAQ :)
Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.
This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.
Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.
NIK, I know youre a Kobe fan more then youre a Laker fan. And I know you follow Kobe, far more then you follow basketball. But Even IF Kobe in his prime dominates as much as Shaq did in his prime (key word, if)...Kobe would be getting set up by Shaq more then the other way around. An offense runs easier around a dominant bigman then a dominant perimeter player.
On a side note, "on pace" is one of the stupidest sayings ever used in sports. Griffey was "on pace" to shatter Babe Ruths homerun record. Barry Sanders was "on pace" to break the all time rushing record. Kobe Bryant is "on pace" to becoming the second best 2 guard ever.
Everything you just said is wrong...I'm a Laker fan first...that's not even questionable..and Kobe on the perimeter opened the game up for Shaq way more than Shaq opened shit up for Kobe (see Shaq's speedy decline and Kobe's vast improvement after Shaq left LA. LOL). 35+ PPG without Shaq, ToNe... Kobe can drive, shoot, post-up, feed you the ball off a lob, in transition, he has it all. Shaq was also a weak defender who never moved on screen-and-rolls and was the worst help defender a guard could ask for.. while Kobe always shut down the teams best players. But no, of course that doesn't mean shit, right? Kobe, right now, is better skillwise than Jordan was...now it's a matter of whether he can achieve the same in the amount of time he has left. I'd say, Lakers are looking good, and so is Kobe's future in LA...PeACe
If you know basketball. Dont you know that its inside out....not outside in. Are you gonna tell me when it was Shaq and Kobe, the gameplan wasnt to establish the post first and have all the other players feed off of that? Ask any coach. Even if you dont have a dominant center....its best to get the ball to the post. But especially when your center is commanding double and sometimes triple teams. Shaq's decline after leaving LA and Kobe getting better has nothing to do with the argument lol. It was easy to see, even in Shaq's prime, that he would have a rapid decline as he got up in age. He never had a ton of skills as a center...he was just big and pretty athletic for his size. Once he lost that explosion...he had nothing to fall back on. That doesnt mean he wasnt the main man during the three peat years though and its obvious to non Kobe fans. Your skillwise argument is silly. Paul Pierce is better "skillwise" then Larry Bird was. Which would you say is the better all time player?
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
lol Mark Jackson and Phil....thats what you got? lol. Mark is a member of the media, his job is to say something shocking, even if it IS stupid. Phil is coaching Kobe NOW. Kobe is known for having the biggest ego in basketball. Doesnt make much coaching sense for Phil to come out and say...."Jordans definetely better then Kobe" lol. More range? Debatable. Jordans fade-away was the second most dangerous weapon in league history. Dribbles? Possibly. But doesnt every player now have better handles then players 10....15....20...30 yrs ago? Its evolution. Slashing to the hoop? Very questionable. Jordan is possibly the best finisher at the hoop ever (Nique might take it). Better scorer? How do you define that? Points? PPG? Kobe=25 PPG. Jordan=30.1. Even if you took Kobe's first 3 seasons out (which you shouldnt), he's still at like 28.1. More titles at a younger age? LOL. Youre really reachin with that one. Horry has more titles then all of them...guess he's better also. Kobe wasnt the main guy on those title teams. Jordan was never the "Robin" on any of his title teams.
Some other categories...
Better Leader-Jordan
Better Defender-Jordan
Better Basketball IQ-Jordan
Respect from teammates/opponents-Jordan
Mental toughness-Jordan
Your arguments are baseless and I can rip them to shreds, because they're all based off of ignorance, but I'll put it into perspective for those who actually know something about both Kobe and Jordan with one quote:
More range? Debatable.
LMAO
I'd give you a full reply, but I'm faded and tired right now... You made it pretty easy for me with that one, though.
btw...speaking of Pierce. Whens the last time you remember Jordan getting outplayed by an opponent in the finals? lol
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^Like I said, Kobe has broken many of Jordan's records...and Jordan hasn't gotten 3 titles by 29, so stop stretching the age to make yourself sound better. If Kobe has 3 titles at 29 and has broken his scoring records, despite spending most of his career with a ball-dominant center, then he clearly has done better by this age... Anyways, it's worthless arguing with you. You're a fake crip, probably from Germany or some shit, and you tend to measure Kobe's level of play based on your hate for him. I've watched both Kobe and Jordan playing growing up, and that's how I measure which player is better. Kobe is a better player and will end his career with the proof, if my analysis comes to fruition. Right now, Kobe has done more in his NBA career than Jordan at this age. If you're gunna use stats to measure shit, don't ignore all of Kobe's records while only listing Jordan's, cuz that makes your hate look even more pathetic...PeACe
u aint very smart are u jew? first off kobe may have broken SOME of jordan's records, but he hasn't broken a MAJORITY of the records jordan had at 29. its been proven in this topic that u just say false shiet (# of jordan titles at 29) and hope nobody calls ur pathetic ass on the truth. like i said with the age shiet, after kobe loses to the celtics, he'll have 3 titles at 30 years old, the SAME as jordan. and the whole point that ur jew ass dont get is that its not fair to compare 2 players agewise when one started much earlier than the other in the NBA, just like i didnt actually compare jordans ncaa shit to kobe, since kobe skipped college. u may wanna get all technical about 4 months cuz it makes kobe look better and your in love with him, but its some gay shiet to try and sneak out the reality, which is that jordan ACCOMPLISHED more than kobe at the same age. so kobe hasn't "clearly done better by this age". you measure who is better by your personal, biased opinion from watchin them? hahahaha, if thats the best way to measure players, people might as well stop taking stats. u dumbfucc, opinions are like assholes, thats why niccas keep stats to BACC OPINIONS UP. you keep sayin shiet with no FACTS, like "kobe has done more in his nba career than jordan" except thats about as true as your fake jordan title count. i LISTED jordan's UNMATCHED nba accomplishments because MY ARGUMENT is that jordan is better at the same age. if i was arguin that KOBE IS BETTER, than i woulda listed PROOF to bacc up that shiet. you cant do that cuz that 'proof' dont exist, or as u like to put it, it's 'FUTURE PROOF' ahahahha. what the fuc is future proof? the reality is jordan has more unmatched NBA records at 29 than kobe does. kobe might have some, but jordan has MORE. get it?
jordan's nba accomplishments at 29 > kobe's nba accomplishments at 29 (i posted PROOF, you posted jacc shiet except your groupie luv opinion)
since ur too dumb to realize that comparin age accomplishments for people who started their nba careers at different ages is stupid (even tho the NUMBERS show jordan did more at the same age) i'll break it down real simple fo yo jewbacca ass.
jordan in first 9 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as UNDISPUTED leader, all with nba finals records and 3 nba finals mvps aka BEST player on biggest nba stage) he also had 6 titles in his first 13 seasons, which is double kobe's number of titles in teh same amount of years)
kobe in first 12 nba seasons = 3 titles (all as shaq's sidekicc. less points and ZERO finals mvps aka NOT THE BEST player on biggest nba stage)
so jordan had the same number of titles in 3 less seasons, and double the kobe titles in the same amount of time. even if kobe wins next year, he'll have 4 rings in 13 seasons, when jordan had 6 in 13 seasons.
thats undisputedly proof that in the same amount of total seasons(actually 3 seasons less), jordan had more rings, more scoring titles, more mvps, more defensive players of the year, more rookie of the year, more seasons scoring 3000 points, more finals mvps, more finals records, LESS FINALS LOSSES.
however you wanan look at it, jordan has better numbers in the same or less amount of seasons/same point in career vs kobes.
So it's not fair to compare accomplishments when one player came in younger and more raw, but it is okay to compare numbers and overall averages? LMAO. Get the fuck outta here, ya fakeass crip. Either way you look at it, Kobe holds many records that Jordan will never be able to break, while Kobe still has the opportunity to break Jordan's records:
Most three-point field goals made, one game: 12
Most three-point field goals made, one half: 8
Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game: 9
Most free throws made, one quarter: 14
40 points on 7 field goal attempts
4 consecutive 50+ point games
42 points in 1 half (vs. Jordan)
Youngest player to score 15,000 points
Youngest player to score 20,000 points
Youngest Slam Dunk champion
Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team
Became first player since Chamberlain (1963) to post 60-point/50-point games back-to-back
Ten 50+ point games in one season
9 consecutive 40+ point games (highest aside from Chamberlain)
Highest scoring all-rookie game
81 point game
62 points in 3 quarters
Connected on 62 consecutive free-throws in 2006
Gold Medal with Team USA, Tournament of Americas Olympic Qualifiers (he did win in the Olympics, shithead)
1996 Naismith High School Player of the Year
1996 Gatorade Circle of Champions High School Player of the Year
1996 McDonald's High School All-American
1996 USA Today All-USA First Team
1995 Adidas ABCD Camp Senior MVP
Named to the USA Today All-Time All-USA First Team in 2003.
USA Today and PARADE's 1996 National High School Player of the Year with a seasonal average of 30.8 points, 12.0 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4.0 steals and 3.9 blocks per game.
The all-time leading scorer in Southeastern Pennsylvania school history with 2,883 points.
LOL. I can go on, but it's useless, because it wont prove that Kobe is the more SKILLED player. But since stats is what you go by, as opposed to actually watching the players play their game, I thought I'd bring some up...PeACe
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lemme ask yall a question... WHO WOULD DOMINATE MORE IN THESE FINALS RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE
SHAQ IN HIS PRIME OR KOBE BRYANT NOW IN HIS PRIME???
easy choice id go with SHAQ :)
Shaq with no superstar guard to feed him? I don't think so. LOL.
This question shouldn't even be asked. MJ hands down the greatest player that has ever played the game he has never lost a nba finals series and kobe is about to lose his second simple as that. MJ=GOAT. Close Thread.
He's lost in quite a few first rounds. LOL. Making Finals>Making 1st Round. I love these Jordan fanatic arguments.
These "Jordan fanatic arguments" definitely have a lot more merit to them than the Kobe fanatic arguments. Jordan is proven, is a legend and is widely heralded as the best player to ever set foot on the hardwood. Miss me with the "Well Phil Jackson says Kobe is better," nonsense. Of course he's gonna say that. He knows he has to cater to Kobe's ego.
Just wait until Kobe's career is over...As of now, he's definitely on pace, and will remain in the talks.
NIK, I know youre a Kobe fan more then youre a Laker fan. And I know you follow Kobe, far more then you follow basketball. But Even IF Kobe in his prime dominates as much as Shaq did in his prime (key word, if)...Kobe would be getting set up by Shaq more then the other way around. An offense runs easier around a dominant bigman then a dominant perimeter player.
On a side note, "on pace" is one of the stupidest sayings ever used in sports. Griffey was "on pace" to shatter Babe Ruths homerun record. Barry Sanders was "on pace" to break the all time rushing record. Kobe Bryant is "on pace" to becoming the second best 2 guard ever.
Everything you just said is wrong...I'm a Laker fan first...that's not even questionable..and Kobe on the perimeter opened the game up for Shaq way more than Shaq opened shit up for Kobe (see Shaq's speedy decline and Kobe's vast improvement after Shaq left LA. LOL). 35+ PPG without Shaq, ToNe... Kobe can drive, shoot, post-up, feed you the ball off a lob, in transition, he has it all. Shaq was also a weak defender who never moved on screen-and-rolls and was the worst help defender a guard could ask for.. while Kobe always shut down the teams best players. But no, of course that doesn't mean shit, right? Kobe, right now, is better skillwise than Jordan was...now it's a matter of whether he can achieve the same in the amount of time he has left. I'd say, Lakers are looking good, and so is Kobe's future in LA...PeACe
If you know basketball. Dont you know that its inside out....not outside in. Are you gonna tell me when it was Shaq and Kobe, the gameplan wasnt to establish the post first and have all the other players feed off of that? Ask any coach. Even if you dont have a dominant center....its best to get the ball to the post. But especially when your center is commanding double and sometimes triple teams. Shaq's decline after leaving LA and Kobe getting better has nothing to do with the argument lol. It was easy to see, even in Shaq's prime, that he would have a rapid decline as he got up in age. He never had a ton of skills as a center...he was just big and pretty athletic for his size. Once he lost that explosion...he had nothing to fall back on. That doesnt mean he wasnt the main man during the three peat years though and its obvious to non Kobe fans. Your skillwise argument is silly. Paul Pierce is better "skillwise" then Larry Bird was. Which would you say is the better all time player?
Larry Bird was better skillwise than Paul Pierce, so I dunno wtf you're tryna prove with that stupid statement...Fact of the matter is, bigs feed off of guards a lot more than guards feed off of bigs. Especially a big like Shaq, who clogged the lane for slashers and made it extremely difficult for his teammates on defense. What Shaq has on Kobe is eqo...he wanted the spotlight more, wanted more touches on offense, wanted the focus to be on him, and he somewhat succeeded, considering you actually think Kobe was just a sidekick...LOL
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Laker fa...scatch that. Kobe fans will never understand this. Even though the rest of the world does. Whether you were a Bulls fan in the 90's....or a Knicks fan and hated him...you would agree that there is a definete difference between Jordan and every other player ever. Kobe is part of that group. Im a Spurs fan, and Duncan is probably the best power forward of all time. But im not stupid enough (like some) to think that Jordan still wasnt on another level.
I guess Mark Jackson, who's PLAYED AGAINST HIM, doesn't count for shit...and Phil Jackson, who's COACHED BOTH PLAYERS. Naah, his opinion on this matter is just as worthless, huh?...Jordan was just greater cuz he was greater! Right? That's the argument. The NBA got you good with all that marketing, huh? Don't forget that the league made Jordan untouchable, sorta like the opposite of what they've done with Kobe. But naah, none of that matters, Jordan was just the greatest! Kobe=more range, more dribbles, stronger slash to the hoop, wider arsenal, better scorer, more titles at younger age, less respect from refs/leage. No way, though. Jordan's gotta be the greatest. Cuz everyone fuckin says so! ::)
lol Mark Jackson and Phil....thats what you got? lol. Mark is a member of the media, his job is to say something shocking, even if it IS stupid. Phil is coaching Kobe NOW. Kobe is known for having the biggest ego in basketball. Doesnt make much coaching sense for Phil to come out and say...."Jordans definetely better then Kobe" lol. More range? Debatable. Jordans fade-away was the second most dangerous weapon in league history. Dribbles? Possibly. But doesnt every player now have better handles then players 10....15....20...30 yrs ago? Its evolution. Slashing to the hoop? Very questionable. Jordan is possibly the best finisher at the hoop ever (Nique might take it). Better scorer? How do you define that? Points? PPG? Kobe=25 PPG. Jordan=30.1. Even if you took Kobe's first 3 seasons out (which you shouldnt), he's still at like 28.1. More titles at a younger age? LOL. Youre really reachin with that one. Horry has more titles then all of them...guess he's better also. Kobe wasnt the main guy on those title teams. Jordan was never the "Robin" on any of his title teams.
Some other categories...
Better Leader-Jordan
Better Defender-Jordan
Better Basketball IQ-Jordan
Respect from teammates/opponents-Jordan
Mental toughness-Jordan
Your arguments are baseless and I can rip them to shreds, because they're all based off of ignorance, but I'll put it into perspective for those who actually know something about both Kobe and Jordan with one quote:
More range? Debatable.
LMAO
I'd give you a full reply, but I'm faded and tired right now... You made it pretty easy for me with that one, though.
btw...speaking of Pierce. Whens the last time you remember Jordan getting outplayed by an opponent in the finals? lol
Kobe has clearly meant more to his team than Pierce has to the Celtics...Come on, now. Sasha Vujacic outplayed Manu Ginobli in the Spurs series....SASHA'S BETTER! LOL.
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You obviously love Kobe more than I do
kobes parents dont even love him as much as you do
hahahaha
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You obviously love Kobe more than I do
kobes parents dont even love him as much as you do
hahahaha
real shiet my nicca.
and hahahahaha @ this gay ass jew putting up like 10 accomplishments kobe got in HIGH SCHOOL. nicca, dont nobody give a fuc about no gay ass high school awards, u expect us to believe that kobe's high school awards make him better than jordan at 29? by 29 jordan was a 3 time mvp, a defensive player of the year, a 2 time nba champ, 2 time finals mvp, a all time finals scoring leader, rookie fo the year, college champion, olympic gold medalist and more. all his nba finals records alone are greater than kobe chump ass high school records. whats next jewboy, his mommy gave him a gold star when he was 17? what a weak ass list u put up hahaha. oh yeah cuzz, a gold medal in olmypic qualifiers is NOT NO fuccin olympic gold medal. them shiets aint the same dumbfucc, they just the prelims for the real shiet, the world stage, which jordan won when he was like 19 years old.
jordan at 29 > kobe at 29.
pull your kobe skirt up and get in the fuccin fire jew.
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the threadstarter was right, Kobe has more than proven in this series that he is not on Jordans level yet.
A|nyone who tries to argue is only making excuses and refuses to accept reality.
Kobe is not a leader yet; if he was he would get on his team to play some fucking defense. A blowout to lose the championship is disgusting. Its like the Lakers have no pride
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the threadstarter was right, Kobe has more than proven in this series that he is not on Jordans level yet.
A|nyone who tries to argue is only making excuses and refuses to accept reality.
Kobe is not a leader yet; if he was he would get on his team to play some fucking defense. A blowout to lose the championship is disgusting. Its like the Lakers have no pride
yup no1 should ever try to compare kobe to mj again. hes nowhere near his level.
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^^^ Agreed. MJ is in a league of his own, forever!!! 8)
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how many times did jordan lose in the finals? ZERO.
how many times did jordan blow a NBA FINALS RECORD 24 point lead at HOME? ZERO.
how many times did jordan lose by 30 or more points in a do or die nba finals game? ZERO.
how many times has kobe lost in the finals? TWO.
how many times did kobe blow a NBA FINALS RECORD 24 point lead at HOME? ONCE.
how many times did kobe lose by 30 or more points in a do or die nba finals game? ONCE.
ahahahahahha. jordan > kobe.
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how many times did jordan lose in the finals? ZERO.
how many times did jordan blow a NBA FINALS RECORD 24 point lead at HOME? ZERO.
how many times did jordan lose by 30 or more points in a do or die nba finals game? ZERO.
how many times has kobe lost in the finals? TWO.
how many times did kobe blow a NBA FINALS RECORD 24 point lead at HOME? ONCE.
how many times did kobe lose by 30 or more points in a do or die nba finals game? ONCE.
ahahahahahha. jordan > kobe.
but Kobe never had a center as good as Luke Longely in his career!
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Kobe>Jordan
Phil Jackson said so.
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This thread really should locked after tonight.
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This thread really should locked after tonight.
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This thread really should locked after tonight.
not before I take this tasteless jab:
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/10989/disappear_medium.jpg)
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hahahaha
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
I loved how KG was still blocking their shit and screaming even though the Game was virtually over :D
Had I been a neutral observer, I might have switched the channel sometimes because it was so embarrassing that it would have made me feel uncomfortable... but since I really wanted the Lakers to lose I enjoyed it :D
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lol poor lakers. how do you motivate yourself to keep playing through something like that?
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
I loved how KG was still blocking their shit and screaming even though the Game was virtually over :D
Had I been a neutral observer, I might have switched the channel sometimes because it was so embarrassing that it would have made me feel uncomfortable... but since I really wanted the Lakers to lose I enjoyed it :D
hahathis game brings back memories of the Spurs beating LA in 2003
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lol how bout odom acting like a little fuckin bitch when kg was shitting on him
take ur ass whoopin like a man u fuckin faggot
i bet u right now kobe is acting like a dick to his team mates and makin it seem like its all their fault when his ass was chokin out there jus like the rest of em
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lol how bout odom acting like a little fuckin bitch when kg was shitting on him
take ur ass whoopin like a man u fuckin faggot
i bet u right now kobe is acting like a dick to his team mates and makin it seem like its all their fault when his ass was chokin out there jus like the rest of em
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i bet u right now kobe is acting like a dick to his team mates and makin it seem like its all their fault when his ass was chokin out there jus like the rest of em
he probly ran off the court like a bitch ass lil girl, screamin and cryin that it wasnt fair, that he's the mvp and they were supposed to carry him, since he cant do it alone. i bet yall shaq is laughin with MJ right now like 'look at this selfish lil bitch get exposed. worst finals choke ever."
everybody and they momma was piccin the lakers to win after the gasol trade and after the lakers got the 1 seed. too bad kobe choked under the pressure.
22 points? ahahaha.
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kobes probably all up in some white groupie right now
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the threadstarter was right, Kobe has more than proven in this series that he is not on Jordans level yet.
A|nyone who tries to argue is only making excuses and refuses to accept reality.
Kobe is not a leader yet; if he was he would get on his team to play some fucking defense. A blowout to lose the championship is disgusting. Its like the Lakers have no pride
Yea, cuz everyone knows it's Kobe's fault that his team isn't playing defense! Defense? What the hell does Kobe know about that? Some of you people are AMAZING.
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This thread really should locked after tonight.
not before I take this tasteless jab:
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/10989/disappear_medium.jpg)
lmao
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
I loved how KG was still blocking their shit and screaming even though the Game was virtually over :D
Yes...The Celtics were extremely classless at the end of the game. The reason the game ended with such a huge lead was because the Celtics were doing what no other team in the league would think of doing. The team is tasteless...playing their asses off well after it was established that the game was over. As much as I hated Boston, I hate them even more after last night...PeACe
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
I loved how KG was still blocking their shit and screaming even though the Game was virtually over :D
Yes...The Celtics were extremely classless at the end of the game. The reason the game ended with such a huge lead was because the Celtics were doing what no other team in the league would think of doing. The team is tasteless...playing their asses off well after it was established that the game was over. As much as I hated Boston, I hate them even more after last night...PeACe
LMAO HATING ON EM FOR PLAYING THEIR ASSES OFF JUST CUZ THE LAKERS DECIDED NOT TO PLAY WITH ANY EFFORT AT ALL
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
I loved how KG was still blocking their shit and screaming even though the Game was virtually over :D
Yes...The Celtics were extremely classless at the end of the game. The reason the game ended with such a huge lead was because the Celtics were doing what no other team in the league would think of doing. The team is tasteless...playing their asses off well after it was established that the game was over. As much as I hated Boston, I hate them even more after last night...PeACe
Would you call the Lakers classless if they did the same thing? I seriously dout it. You would have enjoyed it every bit as much as Boston fans enjoyed it last night. Why is it considered classless to completely demolish your opponent and remove any doubt as to who the better team is? You play to win the game, and mercy is for bitches. Would it really have made you feel better if they felt so bad for the Lakers that they actually took the rest of the game off and left the final score with a false sense of the game being closer than it actually was?
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^Do you watch sports, seriously? It's considered tactless and shameful to keep your starters in, run all over your opponent when the game is decided, scream and shout, aggressively blocking shots hollering "get that shit outta here!", all while hopping up and down the court celebrating...This happened DURING the game. Seriously, now, I am disgusted in your comments in regards to basketball these past few weeks...
Hopefully, Doc grows up and learns how to win with respect next time...oh, wait, there wont be a next time. The Celtics are dying.
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dat nigga was cryin to phil jackson please take me out the game i cant take this anymore theyre tearing me apart out there
i think all 10 players were saying that LOL
I loved how KG was still blocking their shit and screaming even though the Game was virtually over :D
Yes...The Celtics were extremely classless at the end of the game. The reason the game ended with such a huge lead was because the Celtics were doing what no other team in the league would think of doing. The team is tasteless...playing their asses off well after it was established that the game was over. As much as I hated Boston, I hate them even more after last night...PeACe
LMAO HATING ON EM FOR PLAYING THEIR ASSES OFF JUST CUZ THE LAKERS DECIDED NOT TO PLAY WITH ANY EFFORT AT ALL
It's called winning in taste...when a game is over, you pull your starters out and wait till the final buzzer to celebrate.
Anyways, this thread is way off topic. Anyone using Kobe making it to the Finals against all odds as a reason for why he's not better than Jordan is fooling themselves. Be patient.
*Locked*