West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: LooN3y on July 26, 2010, 03:32:16 PM
-
i think kobe has already hit much more important shots in his first 7 years than any in lebrons 7 year career already. if lebron was in kobes position he wouldnt of been able to his those peremiter shots to win the game.
http://www.youtube.com/v/dWXvi8waXyA&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/H8nEqiEZQ30&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/mZOXZea1iGk&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/XDpPrdF6ANs&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/4p0vfX6j1Pw&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/FlusnThciI4&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/8xqLrgyVIAE&hl=en_US&fs=1
-
What shots are you talking about?
The stats have already been shown, Kobe has the most misses in clutch situations & LeBron hit more clutch shots last year than Kobe, as did Ray Allen & Vince Carter.
Daygo got the numbers.
-
(http://i31.tinypic.com/2ytxqh1.gif)
(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/0f/fullj.ba89ebe1747b9c0da140e258d182baf6/ba89ebe1747b9c0da140e258d182baf6-getty-76075038ab020_cavs_lakers.jpg)
-
are there ppl that truly believe lebrons a better player then kobe?
lets be serious for a min.
-
are there ppl that truly believe lebrons a better player then kobe?
lets be serious for a min.
Better with the ball, better rebounder, as good a defender, most unstoppable on the break, better driver; all Kobe has him in his a jumpshot & this magical "clutch" thing that doesn't even exist.
-
are there ppl that truly believe lebrons a better player then kobe?
lets be serious for a min.
Better with the ball, better rebounder, as good a defender, most unstoppable on the break, better driver; all Kobe has him in his a jumpshot & this magical "clutch" thing that doesn't even exist.
dont forget kobes got
5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvp
1 olympic gold medal
12 time all star
3 time all star mvp
8 time all NBA first team
am i missin anything else?
what does lebron have?
2 mvps
being swept in his only finals appearance
teammates bangin his mother
takin the cowards way out
scoring champ
SMFH
-
yeah, i wont jump into an argument about this, logic has to prevail at some point i dont mean that as a cop out...but thats absured, the only people i know that would say lebron over kobe are younger cats that didnt get into ball heavy till like just this past decade. I remember arguing with my dad about if dudes like magic were better then jordan so i respect your opinion...even if its wrong, im fuckin with you lol.
-
and in all honesty i dont even really like kobe and his cash register chin all that much.
-
are there ppl that truly believe lebrons a better player then kobe?
lets be serious for a min.
Better with the ball, better rebounder, as good a defender, most unstoppable on the break, better driver; all Kobe has him in his a jumpshot & this magical "clutch" thing that doesn't even exist.
dont forget kobes got
5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvp
1 olympic gold medal
12 time all star
3 time all star mvp
8 time all NBA first team
am i missin anything else?
what does lebron have?
2 mvps
being swept in his only finals appearance
teammates bangin his mother
takin the cowards way out
scoring champ
SMFH
OMG BUT LEBRON IS THE KING LISTEN TO THE MEDIA ASSHOLE
-
i think kobe has already hit much more important shots in his first 7 years than any in lebrons 7 year career already. if lebron was in kobes position he wouldnt of been able to his those peremiter shots to win the game.
http://www.youtube.com/v/dWXvi8waXyA&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/H8nEqiEZQ30&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/mZOXZea1iGk&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/XDpPrdF6ANs&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/4p0vfX6j1Pw&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/FlusnThciI4&hl=en_US&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/8xqLrgyVIAE&hl=en_US&fs=1
not sure if you read my post in that other thread but over the last 3-4 years, Lebron actually has more game winners...and is a more efficient player during the clutch minutes of games. Actually, Vince Carter and Ray Allen have more game winners than Kobe.
-
The real question is, who would you like to take the last shot?
Vince Carter of Kobe Bryant?
-
Yeah these clutch stats don't really matter. All you have to do is ask yourself, if you were a coach, who would you like on your team ? I'd pick Lebron in the regular season and Kobe in the play offs.
-
Playing on contenders, especially on the Lakers, you naturally get more attention than when you play in Memphis, Tennassee. You will see a lot more domination from LeBron, now that he has a good team and a good organization - which he never, ever had before. Kobe had all those things from the very beginning.
-
Fuck all of that "who takes the last shot" bs, the real question is what player always make the best decision? That's harder to judge, even by watching every single game from every single player.
-
Yeah these clutch stats don't really matter. All you have to do is ask yourself, if you were a coach, who would you like on your team ? I'd pick Lebron in the regular season and Kobe in the play offs.
lol they completely matter. The media does a good job of building up some of these guys and fans do the same. But if you are a coach, and you have one guy who shoots .250 on game winning shots....and another guy shoots .400....which guy would you rather have take the shot? Of course the coaches a lot of time put the ball in the superstars hands, but they are under a lot of pressure to do so. From fans...the franchise....the media. When your star player misses a game winner....oh well, he missed it. If the coach gives to another player...but maybe even a better option, and HE misses...the coach gets killed.
-
The real question is, who would you like to take the last shot?
Vince Carter of Kobe Bryant?
I just said Vince Carter has more game winners.
If I was having somebody take the last shot...it would be neither. Even Jamison shoots a better percentage in the clutch. For the Lakers, the best CLUTCH scorer percentagewise...is Gasol. Id have him take the shot.
-
What you guys are failing to see is that LeBron wins games before there is even a "whose taking the last shot" question.
The game is over going into the 4th or halfway through the 4th.
Yeah these clutch stats don't really matter. All you have to do is ask yourself, if you were a coach, who would you like on your team ? I'd pick Lebron in the regular season and Kobe in the play offs.
lol they completely matter. The media does a good job of building up some of these guys and fans do the same. But if you are a coach, and you have one guy who shoots .250 on game winning shots....and another guy shoots .400....which guy would you rather have take the shot? Of course the coaches a lot of time put the ball in the superstars hands, but they are under a lot of pressure to do so. From fans...the franchise....the media. When your star player misses a game winner....oh well, he missed it. If the coach gives to another player...but maybe even a better option, and HE misses...the coach gets killed.
Yeah, but stats aren't biased. What good is an argument if it isn't biased? ;D
-
man if labron is suppose to be so good why he went and ran under d-wade's skirt? you labron bill waltons are probably cowards just like him, y'all would do anything for a win,and to damn afraid to lead a squad or anything on your own, if you equals was singers and rappers you'd probably feel you need a kanye or a dr dre to make you hot fucc'n lames,grow some nuts muthafuccas, or suffer from cryptorchidism like labron (fucc spelling his name right) yell
-
man if labron is suppose to be so good why he went and ran under d-wade's skirt? you labron bill waltons are probably cowards just like him, y'all would do anything for a win,and to damn afraid to lead a squad or anything on your own, if you equals was singers and rappers you'd probably feel you need a kanye or a dr dre to make you hot fucc'n lames,grow some nuts muthafuccas, or suffer from cryptorchidism like labron (fucc spelling his name right) yell
Who are the lebron fans on here? Cus Im not even a fan of the guy. Im just bein realistic. How did he run under "d-wade's skirt"? Cus they all decided to hook up and try to create a superteam. How is that hiding behind Wade? Lebron is still the biggest star on that team. And if the team fails, Lebron will take more of the blame than any of them. How come people who take shots at these guys, dont also call them "unselfish" for the fact that they all gave up money to play together? Its all just hate...for the sake of hate.
And bashing him for leaving Cleveland to win a title is kinda silly. Who are we comparing him to? Magic? Magic was drafted by the Lakers and won immediately cus the team was that good. Why the fuck would he ever wanna leave? lol. He would have been an idiot TO leave. Every agent in the world would tell their star player to go to LA and play with Kareem lol. Bird? Bird was drafted by the winningest franchise in NBA history. They were winning titles. They had a HUGE winning tradition. Why would HE go anywhere? He would be an idiot to leave. Kobe? lolol. Kobe was drafted and traded to the Lakers as a bench player. Again....the Lakers. The best spot for a player to go to. Its hollywood. Its exposure. Its a winning tradition. He was lucky enough to win at a young age also. He had Shaq. Why would HE go anywhere? He would have been an idiot to leave. And he actually WAS wanting to leave at one point after Shaq left. The ONLY star you can really compare to Lebron is Jordan. Cus Jordan played for the Bulls who didnt have a real winning tradition. They had some major hurdles to get past. And yeah, Jordan stayed. But one thing to remember is, the game has changed. Players didnt have the same power then, that they do now. Lebron basically did what anyone would do if they worked somewhere, and saw a better opportunity elseware. Sometimes people look at these guys too much as superheroes. They play basketball, and get paid for it. Its their job. But unlike regular people, they dont get to "work" for their entire life. They have a small window of opportunity to make the most of it. If saying that Lebron leaving Cleveland makes him less of a player because he isnt as competitive as JORDAN...wow...i guess everybody is less of a player than we thought in that case.
-
You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
-
You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
-
You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
-
You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
See heres the thing. There is no denying that as far as a career goes, Lebron has a lot of work to do still. But as far as on the court, it would take a very ridiculous person to say that these two arent neck and neck. I personally think Lebron is the better all around player. But obviously Kobe has had the better all around career so far. Its just funny to me when Kobestans try to claim Kobe is better and it isnt even close, when Lebron is the league MVP lol. All year long Lebron was being called the best player in the world by virtually everyone, media included. Analysts...included. He was called that for his skills on the court. The minute the LAKERS won the title, Kobe fans thought it now made sense to say Kobe is lightyears ahead of Lebron on the court lol. As if the LAKERS winning a title somehow changed Kobe's skill level on the court as a player. It made his career better. Not HIM personally.
And the reason I bring up stats...is because stats DO matter. Are they absolutely everything? No. But clearly they matter or we wouldnt keep track of them. Kobestans arguments have always been that he is better in the clutch than Lebron. Truth is, he isnt. Thats a black and white argument. If you had player A and player B. And player B during "clutch" minutes had more game winning shots, shoots a better percentage from the field, had more game winning assists, has more rebounds, more assists period..etc...etc...what is the argument for player A being a better clutch performer??
-
You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
Oh, and no I didnt like the whole hour long sideshow to announce where Lebron was going either. I dont fault him for leaving though. I dont even fault him for not informing the team beforehand. None of us know what was going on there. And clearly, by Dan Gilberts actions, something could have been going on behind closed doors. The Cavs owner, in his attempt to make Lebron look bad, really made HIMself look like a classless piece of shit. So who knows what went on between him and Lebron.
-
You're arguing about who has the most game winners, when surely if we're talking real "clutch" situations (hate that word btw, it just means good under pressure) you should be finding out who has the most PLAYOFF game winners. I'm pretty sure that would be Kobe, without looking at any figures of course.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lebron brick once or twice both in his performance and in helping his teammates get in the game versus the Celtics in the playoffs?
Kobe fans like to use Kobe's clutchness as a basis for their argument. Game winners being ONE of the arguing points they used. If you check out my post in the other thread, I completely laid that myth to rest. Not just measuring game winners (where Kobe doesnt excell and is actually shooting BELOW the league average). All the way to measuring actual clutch minutes in a game. Which would be defined by the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is ahead by more than 5 points. Overtime included. Kobe looks very unimpressive when you actually look at the stats. Its simple, he just starts shooting way more during the clutch...but his shooting percentage is not good, and not even good compared to other NBA players. Not to mention Lebron outperforms him in the "clutch" in other key statistical categories like rebounds, assists, etc. As I said, the Lakers best go to guy (according to actual statistics and not just what we want to believe) is Gasol.
None of this is relevant to what I said. I don't care about what Kobe's statistics are, what this thread is about is Kobe vs Lebron. Lebron, right now, has nothing to even compete on the same level as Kobe. Not even statistically. I'd say winning the NBA Finals is pretty much the only statistic that matters.
I'm not a Kobe fan. In fact I really don't like the guy. And I'm also not a Lebron fan. I think the whole "Lebron's Decision" thing was a disgusting affair which embarrassed his former team that gave him everything they had and said "we're counting on you". He chose, rather than just leave normally and say "Hey Cleveland thanks for the memories but I need to move on", to make that decision without even informing his own team leaving them in the lurch and more than likely hardly even in the playoffs for years to come. He should be ashamed of himself for that.
I'm not going to get into this Kobe vs Lebron argument as I'm neither a Lakers fan or a Heat fan, but I will say that right now, from a neutral point of view, Lebron has years and years of hard work before he can even compare to Kobe.
Oh, and no I didnt like the whole hour long sideshow to announce where Lebron was going either. I dont fault him for leaving though. I dont even fault him for not informing the team beforehand. None of us know what was going on there. And clearly, by Dan Gilberts actions, something could have been going on behind closed doors. The Cavs owner, in his attempt to make Lebron look bad, really made HIMself look like a classless piece of shit. So who knows what went on between him and Lebron.
Yeah what Dan Gilbert did was very stupid, and made his team look bad, but it doesn't excuse Lebron. He exploited his team and embarrassed them publicly. He showed absolutely no remorse or even respect for the franchise of the Cavs. I have no issue with him leaving, players switch teams all the time, its part of the game, but no-one else has gone out of their way to pretty much take the piss out of a team like he did. He's such a selfish man and selfish player that he didn't realise his own actions would be nothing more than a massive spit in the face to the team who gave him 7 years of their lives to him, and completely trusted him to lead everything at their own risk.
Also, with regards to your point on Lebron, he deserved the MVP in the regular season where he dominated most games with aplomb, but was he the Playoffs MVP? Definitely not....and isn't that really when it matters? For example, Boston did it the right way in saving their best for the playoffs and hitting their peak at the right time. Maybe Lebron needs to learn how to step it up a gear in the important games.
To be fair, he probably won't need to really, as D. Wade will be beside him the whole way.
-
This shit was sick right here
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&hl=en_US&fs=1
-
Point is, Kobe has hit huge shots throughout his career and LeBron hasn't (aside from that one against the Magic and game against Detroit).
-
lebron is wack as shit
http://www.youtube.com/v/ivgrjY-CrrQ&feature=player_embedded
-
Kobe has literally nothing on LeBron but a jumpshot & rings that were won for him by playing team basketball.
LeBron alone (or with Mo Williams) 60+ wins, Kobe alone; 40 wins.
People being blind to the facts, smh,
-
Also, with regards to your point on Lebron, he deserved the MVP in the regular season where he dominated most games with aplomb, but was he the Playoffs MVP? Definitely not....and isn't that really when it matters? For example, Boston did it the right way in saving their best for the playoffs and hitting their peak at the right time. Maybe Lebron needs to learn how to step it up a gear in the important games.
To be fair, he probably won't need to really, as D. Wade will be beside him the whole way.
[/quote]
Bingo. That's what I've been saying the whole time about this clutch argument. Lebron may have better stats, is always killing it in the regular season and is deservingly an MVP but when play offs come...lights out. So you can't blame him for going to Miami, where Wade will take over the burden of just that.
-
Kobe has literally nothing on LeBron but a jumpshot & rings that were won for him by playing team basketball.
LeBron alone (or with Mo Williams) 60+ wins, Kobe alone; 40 wins.
People being blind to the facts, smh,
Kobe obviously has the better supporting cast now, but LeBron played with two former all stars and a bunch of solid roll players while Kobe was stuck with a bunch of scrubs (aside from Lamar). The East is also an easier division to win games in. My only point was that LeBron is un-proven. Does that mean he'll never be an all time great? No. But at this point he hasn't shown me anything but freakish athleticism and the ability to pile together regular season wins.
-
^I mean, put steroids aside & Barry Bonds wasn't proven, but he was undoubtedly the greatest player of this generation; he just didn't have the team behind him to win & he even made it to the WS.
LeBron had a good squad, honestly, coulda/shoulda made it to the Finals, but he doesn't have no Kobe, LA squad.
Larry & Magic won throughout the 80's with STACKED ass teams; Jordan won throughout the 90's with a stacked ass team; & for this decade, the Lakers had an amazing team with Shaq & Kobe & now the super stacked team they currently have, the Spurs had an incredible team with Robinson, Duncan, Parker & Manu, & even the Pistons had a STACKED team when they won.
Take the best player off of all those teams I just named, off of all those NBA Champions over the years & ALL of those teams would still be playoff bound, 5, 6, 7 seeds; where the Cavs would honestly be LUCKY to win 30 games this season without LeBron.
Sure LeBron has to start winning titles, but look what the Laker stans run to; now if he wins, it's "not legit", give me break lol.
EDIT: Also, what you quoted of me, was speaking on terms of pure skills. LeBron is better than Kobe in every aspect except a jumpshot & this imaginary "clutch" factor & "heart" & whatever other unproveable thing ESPN makes up for him to make it seem like they are even.
-
^I mean, put steroids aside & Barry Bonds wasn't proven, but he was undoubtedly the greatest player of this generation; he just didn't have the team behind him to win & he even made it to the WS.
LeBron had a good squad, honestly, coulda/shoulda made it to the Finals, but he doesn't have no Kobe, LA squad.
Larry & Magic won throughout the 80's with STACKED ass teams; Jordan won throughout the 90's with a stacked ass team; & for this decade, the Lakers had an amazing team with Shaq & Kobe & now the super stacked team they currently have, the Spurs had an incredible team with Robinson, Duncan, Parker & Manu, & even the Pistons had a STACKED team when they won.
Take the best player off of all those teams I just named, off of all those NBA Champions over the years & ALL of those teams would still be playoff bound, 5, 6, 7 seeds; where the Cavs would honestly be LUCKY to win 30 games this season without LeBron.
Sure LeBron has to start winning titles, but look what the Laker stans run to; now if he wins, it's "not legit", give me break lol.
EDIT: Also, what you quoted of me, was speaking on terms of pure skills. LeBron is better than Kobe in every aspect except a jumpshot & this imaginary "clutch" factor & "heart" & whatever other unproveable thing ESPN makes up for him to make it seem like they are even.
Well I see there's no convincing you of a clutch factor, so I'm not even gonna try 8)
-
LOL@any idiot who truly believes LeBron can even be in the same sentence as Kobe when it comes to the clutch factor and using 82game stats as their basis...pathetic. and LMAO@"what does Kobe have on LeBron besides a jumpshot?"...would you say the same thing about Jordan? Because Kobe can do everything Jordan can do on a basketball court...so that's a pretty fucking moronic statement in it's own..The only thing LeBron has on Kobe is power/athleticism..if you think otherwise, you're not even worth discussing with.
-
^Whose better with the ball? LeBron.
Whose a better passer? LeBron.
Whose a better rebounder? LeBron.
Whose better at taking it to the hoop & more dominating & more unstoppable when driving? LeBron.
It's not me being moronic, it's you being in denial, which is perfectly okay & understandable.
Daygo already proved that Kobe isn't as clutch as Vince, Allan & LeBron. Isn't even as clutch as Pau Gasol. Kobe also takes the most clutch shots & has the most misses, so basically he isn't playing better in the clutch or worse, he's just playing how he does throughout the whole game & your biased force & delusional thinking that he is some second coming of Jesus makes you think he's "stepping up".
The only Kobe argument is "clutchness" & rings; one that doesn't exist & one that was won for him by the help of others. As a pure player, who is better all around, not looking at accolades, just what they can do on a court; LeBron is hands down better.
-
^I mean, put steroids aside & Barry Bonds wasn't proven, but he was undoubtedly the greatest player of this generation; he just didn't have the team behind him to win & he even made it to the WS.
Ken Griffey Jr > Barry Bonds 8)
-
^I mean, put steroids aside & Barry Bonds wasn't proven, but he was undoubtedly the greatest player of this generation; he just didn't have the team behind him to win & he even made it to the WS.
Ken Griffey Jr > Barry Bonds 8)
Ringless as well. ;)
-
^I mean, put steroids aside & Barry Bonds wasn't proven, but he was undoubtedly the greatest player of this generation; he just didn't have the team behind him to win & he even made it to the WS.
Ken Griffey Jr > Barry Bonds 8)
Ringless as well. ;)
Low Blow! Nah but the ringless argument doesn't work as well in baseball. You can be a great player in ball and not even make the playoffs and it doesn't knock your ability. Look at ARod on the Rangers, dude put up 50+ hr's per year and was probably the best in the game, but Texas sucked so they didn't have a chance. I guess I just don't see much comparison for baseball and basketball, way too different.
-
^Sorry, had to be done. :P
But I understand, but it's not even the point that they can't carry their team, but that other teams are just better. Same goes for LeBron & the Cavs, he's getting beat by better teams.
If LeBron beats the Celtics, they say he beat the "Celtics", not Pierce, not Rondo, but he beat the Celtics; the Celtics lost lol. Where The Cavs lose & it means LeBron lost. I mean, is he even playing on a team or is he by himself?
-
^I mean, put steroids aside & Barry Bonds wasn't proven, but he was undoubtedly the greatest player of this generation; he just didn't have the team behind him to win & he even made it to the WS.
Ken Griffey Jr > Barry Bonds 8)
Ringless as well. ;)
Low Blow! Nah but the ringless argument doesn't work as well in baseball. You can be a great player in ball and not even make the playoffs and it doesn't knock your ability. Look at ARod on the Rangers, dude put up 50+ hr's per year and was probably the best in the game, but Texas sucked so they didn't have a chance. I guess I just don't see much comparison for baseball and basketball, way too different.
Yeah. Being ringless in baseball is about as important to your place in baseball history as being ringless as an offensive lineman in Football lol
-
^Sorry, had to be done. :P
But I understand, but it's not even the point that they can't carry their team, but that other teams are just better. Same goes for LeBron & the Cavs, he's getting beat by better teams.
If LeBron beats the Celtics, they say he beat the "Celtics", not Pierce, not Rondo, but he beat the Celtics; the Celtics lost lol. Where The Cavs lose & it means LeBron lost. I mean, is he even playing on a team or is he by himself?
Well from the time he came in the league (and even before) the entire national media has been on his jock more than any other athlete, so it's understandable why he has these kinds of expectations. I think you just have to assess on a case by case basis. Obviously that year they made the finals he did his thing and doesn't deserve to be hated on for that, even though they got swept. On the other hand, he really seemed to lose it in that Celtics series despite having some good games. He does play on a team, but it's like when Kobe got criticized for that Celtics series a few years ago, people will acknowledge the shortcomings of the supporting cast, but at the end of the day, the blame is gonna rest at the feet of the superstar.
-
^Whose better with the ball? LeBron.
Whose a better passer? LeBron.
Whose a better rebounder? LeBron.
Whose better at taking it to the hoop & more dominating & more unstoppable when driving? LeBron.
It's not me being moronic, it's you being in denial, which is perfectly okay & understandable.
Daygo already proved that Kobe isn't as clutch as Vince, Allan & LeBron. Isn't even as clutch as Pau Gasol. Kobe also takes the most clutch shots & has the most misses, so basically he isn't playing better in the clutch or worse, he's just playing how he does throughout the whole game & your biased force & delusional thinking that he is some second coming of Jesus makes you think he's "stepping up".
The only Kobe argument is "clutchness" & rings; one that doesn't exist & one that was won for him by the help of others. As a pure player, who is better all around, not looking at accolades, just what they can do on a court; LeBron is hands down better.
the thing is, if you truly believe you can say all these things for lebron vs kobe, then you can say it for lebron vs jordan...but lets be realistic, kobe (and jordan) are way better on AND off the ball than lebron...kobe has better dribbles, better long-range, better mid-range...MUCH better defense (lol@you putting lebron above kobe in the defensive category...you're a fucking joke). the only thing lebron truly has on kobe/jordan is a better power game. lebron is a better rebounder than kobe/jordan, as well, because he is more physically gifted...that's not the measuring stick we use to analyze great players, though, genius. all daygo really proved was what every basketball head was already thinking...using 82game stats to back up an argument is laughable...i mean, seriously, do you think anyone out there would rather have vince take the last shot of a game over kobe? whoever does must be as dumb as you...but really, though, anyone who still thinks a guy who openly runs away from pressure is better than kobe bryant seriously must be an idiot...straight up. and that's what you are.
-
^I put LeBron & Kobe in the same defensive category, don't be twisting words while you're in denial too lmfao.
You can say Kobe is the better defender, but it's not by enough to make a difference.
I don't care if he's more physically gifted, that's why he's better LMFAO; you can't take away his size just because Kobe doesn't have it.
I might as well say, Kobe is a better shooter, obviously, so you can't use that in your argument. Moron. ::)
"Running away from pressure", "no desire", "no heart", "not as clutch"; I'd like to see these "heart" & "desire" stats that proves whose better. All I see is Kobe getting an immense amount of help & celebrating when he wins. I saw him threatening to run back when he had no one.
DENIAL.
-
^I put LeBron & Kobe in the same defensive category, don't be twisting words while you're in denial too lmfao.
You can say Kobe is the better defender, but it's not by enough to make a difference.
I don't care if he's more physically gifted, that's why he's better LMFAO; you can't take away his size just because Kobe doesn't have it.
I might as well say, Kobe is a better shooter, obviously, so you can't use that in your argument. Moron. ::)
"Running away from pressure", "no desire", "no heart", "not as clutch"; I'd like to see these "heart" & "desire" stats that proves whose better. All I see is Kobe getting an immense amount of help & celebrating when he wins. I saw him threatening to run back when he had no one.
DENIAL.
scholar, you're missing the whole point i was making...but first of all, kobe is miles ahead of lebron in terms of defense (ie: kobe shutting down pgs like westbrook and rondo when it called for it, while lebron tried doing the same and came up miserably short). the point, though, was that lebron has NOTHING on kobe in terms of skill...kobe is better in pretty much every facet of the game. like i pointed out, whatever category you can apply the "lebron is better than kobe.." in, would also have to apply for jordan...but either way, it's as ridiculous...that's just a small example. lebron is simply not nearly as good as you truly believe...period.
-
Kobe has a better handle (when his finger isn't broken), is a better shooter, has a better post game.
Both Lebron and Kobe are overrated on defense and not on MJ's level (who was also slightly overrated on Defense).
Lebron is a better, more willing passer, is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, better slasher.
Kobe, at this point, because he is winning, is the better player, but Lebron won't be denied for long. Now he is on a stacked team as well (albeit one that will suck at defense) so we will see how this plays out.
______________________________________________________
But really, what does MJ have to do with this argument NIK?
Passing- MJ
Steals- MJ
Blocks-MJ
Rebounds- MJ
Post game-MJ (this is close, but MJ shoots a far higher percentage because he is more efficient in the post)
Drives -MJ (see above)
Outside Shooting- Kobe
Defense- MJ (this is subjective, so lets look at the stats)
-
^Because it's bad enough that Kobe is forever stuck behind MJ, so NIK has made it his personal obligation to ensure that LeBron will never surpass Kobe; even after he seven-peats in Miami & wins Finals MVP AT LEAST 5 times lol.
-
Oh well, NIK will just come back and say Kobe has the "skill" and "potential" to be better than MJ in all of the above categories.
As for Lebron winning 5 finals MVP's? I don't know...that team better get some interior defense quick. And I'm sure, if the Heat do win chips, Wade will get a few as well.
-
^It can be Wade's city & team, but there is no denying that LeBron will be walking away with the superior stats.
And as we can see from this year's Finals, you can shoot like Brian Scalabrine & still walk away with a Final's MVP. ;D
-
^It can be Wade's city & team, but there is no denying that LeBron will be walking away with the superior stats.
And as we can see from this year's Finals, you can shoot like Brian Scalabrine & still walk away with a Final's MVP. ;D
ha ha! Come on, Kobe played well in the playoffs, he just wasn't always really clutch like everyone seems to thinks he is. Two game winners missed that were put back by Artest and Gasol, and his horrible shooting in Game 7 where even he admitted he was nervous!
I think Wade will lead the team in scoring, but to be honest, I'm not really sure what kind of stats any of the big three will put up. Lebron won't have the ball in his hands nearly as much, nor will Wade, so their assists will definitely go down, unless they use Bron as a PG, which, IMO would be a mistake because dude needs to start developing his POST GAME if he truly wants to be unstoppable
-
^Na, Kobe deserved it, but if they gave it to Gasol, I'd say he'd deserve it too.
& I think LeBron will lead in scoring; but everyone's stats will be down. Just like how Pierce, KG & Allen's stats went down when they came together.
But they are clearly all about the rings.
-
This shit was sick right here
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&hl=en_US&fs=1
a game where kobe was sick with teh flu up against a 100% healthy lebron, lebronze is a scrub compared to all the greats.
-
super agents are scum they just want to be in the spotlight keep it networth my equal,it's all a hustle for those chumps, but a great talent wants to beat his rivals it makes you better, not go play on no damn dream team,again equals are scared of equal comp,they want the sure thing,just like music,let me get the hot guy,let me get this feature, shit is pathetic, fucc labron james and all his fans,till that man grow some nuts he's a lame,he can past bill russel in titles and it still won't mean shit, he ran under the skirt and plays in wade county, and again it's the way he went about it, like a super head style groupie, and before equals speak that laker bias, kobe has been called out for his bitch ways,but this guy makes kobe look like macho man savage haha, we gonna see how many heat fans we will have on here soon disguising themselves as "i ain't a heat fan per say but i just want to see someone beat the lakers" yell
-
This shit was sick right here
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&hl=en_US&fs=1
a game where kobe was sick with teh flu up against a 100% healthy lebron, lebronze is a scrub compared to all the greats.
What about the one where LeBron jayed Kobe? Selective ass hearing over here.
-
This shit was sick right here
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&hl=en_US&fs=1
a game where kobe was sick with teh flu up against a 100% healthy lebron, lebronze is a scrub compared to all the greats.
Lol, I'm pretty sure I remember you saying you'd rather have LeBron on the Lakers than Kobe last season.
-
This shit was sick right here
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&hl=en_US&fs=1
a game where kobe was sick with teh flu up against a 100% healthy lebron, lebronze is a scrub compared to all the greats.
Lol, I'm pretty sure I remember you saying you'd rather have LeBron on the Lakers than Kobe last season.
id burn in hell before id say that
-
Kobe has a better handle (when his finger isn't broken), is a better shooter, has a better post game.
Both Lebron and Kobe are overrated on defense and not on MJ's level (who was also slightly overrated on Defense).
Lebron is a better, more willing passer, is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, better slasher.
Kobe, at this point, because he is winning, is the better player, but Lebron won't be denied for long. Now he is on a stacked team as well (albeit one that will suck at defense) so we will see how this plays out.
______________________________________________________
But really, what does MJ have to do with this argument NIK?
Passing- MJ
Steals- MJ
Blocks-MJ
Rebounds- MJ
Post game-MJ (this is close, but MJ shoots a far higher percentage because he is more efficient in the post)
Drives -MJ (see above)
Outside Shooting- Kobe
Defense- MJ (this is subjective, so lets look at the stats)
You're right about Jordan being an overrated defender...he wasn't even the best perimeter defender on his team (Pippen). Honestly, when Kobe goes all out on defense and makes it his task to shut down an opposing player, he is as good a perimeter defender as there is. The thing about Kobe and Jordan is that they usually expand most of their energy on the offensive side, rather then locking down the opposing teams best player for 48 mins...LeBron is nowhere near this level on the defensive end, as of now. Kobe is a better passer than LeBron, as well.. he would average 10+ assists in a run-n-gun offense, and would definitely have 3 or 4 more assists in the offense Cleveland ran for LeBron...LeBron's passing is centered off of the defenses being focused soley on him. What MJ has to do with this argument is the fact that there is nothing MJ in his prime could do that Kobe in his prime couldn't...Their skillset is pretty-much on par with one another, with slight differences here and there (Kobe has more range, Jordan slashes more etc)...But to make what I meant clear, LeBron also averages more assists and rebounds than Jordan did. So that's where the comparison comes in...If you use those stats to say LeBron is better because he's better in these categories, then you gotta say the same against Jordan.....which is stupid both ways. get my point?
-
This shit was sick right here
http://www.youtube.com/v/4LiSUNTJqrQ&hl=en_US&fs=1
a game where kobe was sick with teh flu up against a 100% healthy lebron, lebronze is a scrub compared to all the greats.
Lol, I'm pretty sure I remember you saying you'd rather have LeBron on the Lakers than Kobe last season.
id burn in hell before id say that
Haha word? I remember some Laker fan saying "If only we had LeBron instead of Kobe" while the Cavs were beasting and Kobe was struggling with his finger..thought it was you..oh well lol
-
Kobe has a better handle (when his finger isn't broken), is a better shooter, has a better post game.
Both Lebron and Kobe are overrated on defense and not on MJ's level (who was also slightly overrated on Defense).
Lebron is a better, more willing passer, is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, better slasher.
Kobe, at this point, because he is winning, is the better player, but Lebron won't be denied for long. Now he is on a stacked team as well (albeit one that will suck at defense) so we will see how this plays out.
______________________________________________________
But really, what does MJ have to do with this argument NIK?
Passing- MJ
Steals- MJ
Blocks-MJ
Rebounds- MJ
Post game-MJ (this is close, but MJ shoots a far higher percentage because he is more efficient in the post)
Drives -MJ (see above)
Outside Shooting- Kobe
Defense- MJ (this is subjective, so lets look at the stats)
You're right about Jordan being an overrated defender...he wasn't even the best perimeter defender on his team (Pippen). Honestly, when Kobe goes all out on defense and makes it his task to shut down an opposing player, he is as good a perimeter defender as there is. The thing about Kobe and Jordan is that they usually expand most of their energy on the offensive side, rather then locking down the opposing teams best player for 48 mins...LeBron is nowhere near this level on the defensive end, as of now. Kobe is a better passer than LeBron, as well.. he would average 10+ assists in a run-n-gun offense, and would definitely have 3 or 4 more assists in the offense Cleveland ran for LeBron...LeBron's passing is centered off of the defenses being focused soley on him. What MJ has to do with this argument is the fact that there is nothing MJ in his prime could do that Kobe in his prime couldn't...Their skillset is pretty-much on par with one another, with slight differences here and there (Kobe has more range, Jordan slashes more etc)...But to make what I meant clear, LeBron also averages more assists and rebounds than Jordan did. So that's where the comparison comes in...If you use those stats to say LeBron is better because he's better in these categories, then you gotta say the same against Jordan.....which is stupid both ways. get my point?
First off, MJ's defense was slightly overrated, so was Pippen's, so is Kobe's, so is Lebron's. BUt Jordan had the best defensive stats of all of them. Kobe isn't as good of a defender as he was, either...why you think they got Artest? To say Lebron isn't near Kobe on the def end is hyperbole
Second, Kobe's best scoring season didn't meet Jordans (could be the poor shooting percentage).
Third, to say Kobe is a better passer than Lebron is kind of a reach, being that he isn't exactly a willing passer.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Lebron is a better passer than MJ and Kobe because he averages WAY more assists. ALthough Jordan DID average 8 one year.
Lebron is a better rebounder than MJ and Kobe because of his size, although Jordan averaged over 8 one year.
Jordan is a better scorer than either, as evidenced by his superior 37 PPG season, his ridiculous finals where he averaged 40 a game, and results throughout his career. The icing on the cake is that Jordan shot a really high percentage for most of his career. Lebron also shoots a great percentage.
Its just dumb shit to say "when" kobe wants to he can play good d, or "if" he wanted to he could get more assists...bottom line, he doesn't do either very consistently like Jordan
-
^He "could if he wanted too", but he was way too much talent around him to be that involved.
Which is why I don't see how anybody could discredit LeBron for getting help.
I mean, if you want to play that "if" & live in fairy tale land, you might as well say Kobe "would have" left if he didn't get help from management, but some moron only plays the "if" card when it's beneficial to his argument. ::)
-
Kobe has a better handle (when his finger isn't broken), is a better shooter, has a better post game.
Both Lebron and Kobe are overrated on defense and not on MJ's level (who was also slightly overrated on Defense).
Lebron is a better, more willing passer, is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, better slasher.
Kobe, at this point, because he is winning, is the better player, but Lebron won't be denied for long. Now he is on a stacked team as well (albeit one that will suck at defense) so we will see how this plays out.
______________________________________________________
But really, what does MJ have to do with this argument NIK?
Passing- MJ
Steals- MJ
Blocks-MJ
Rebounds- MJ
Post game-MJ (this is close, but MJ shoots a far higher percentage because he is more efficient in the post)
Drives -MJ (see above)
Outside Shooting- Kobe
Defense- MJ (this is subjective, so lets look at the stats)
You're right about Jordan being an overrated defender...he wasn't even the best perimeter defender on his team (Pippen). Honestly, when Kobe goes all out on defense and makes it his task to shut down an opposing player, he is as good a perimeter defender as there is. The thing about Kobe and Jordan is that they usually expand most of their energy on the offensive side, rather then locking down the opposing teams best player for 48 mins...LeBron is nowhere near this level on the defensive end, as of now. Kobe is a better passer than LeBron, as well.. he would average 10+ assists in a run-n-gun offense, and would definitely have 3 or 4 more assists in the offense Cleveland ran for LeBron...LeBron's passing is centered off of the defenses being focused soley on him. What MJ has to do with this argument is the fact that there is nothing MJ in his prime could do that Kobe in his prime couldn't...Their skillset is pretty-much on par with one another, with slight differences here and there (Kobe has more range, Jordan slashes more etc)...But to make what I meant clear, LeBron also averages more assists and rebounds than Jordan did. So that's where the comparison comes in...If you use those stats to say LeBron is better because he's better in these categories, then you gotta say the same against Jordan.....which is stupid both ways. get my point?
First off, MJ's defense was slightly overrated, so was Pippen's, so is Kobe's, so is Lebron's. BUt Jordan had the best defensive stats of all of them. Kobe isn't as good of a defender as he was, either...why you think they got Artest? To say Lebron isn't near Kobe on the def end is hyperbole
Second, Kobe's best scoring season didn't meet Jordans (could be the poor shooting percentage).
Third, to say Kobe is a better passer than Lebron is kind of a reach, being that he isn't exactly a willing passer.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Lebron is a better passer than MJ and Kobe because he averages WAY more assists. ALthough Jordan DID average 8 one year.
Lebron is a better rebounder than MJ and Kobe because of his size, although Jordan averaged over 8 one year.
Jordan is a better scorer than either, as evidenced by his superior 37 PPG season, his ridiculous finals where he averaged 40 a game, and results throughout his career. The icing on the cake is that Jordan shot a really high percentage for most of his career. Lebron also shoots a great percentage.
Its just dumb shit to say "when" kobe wants to he can play good d, or "if" he wanted to he could get more assists...bottom line, he doesn't do either very consistently like Jordan
Its pointless. Ive had this argument with NIK a million times. Even posted up all of each players (Jordan and Kobe) individual accolades including statistical, and to be honest...Kobe fell VERY short on most. Whether it be offensive statistics, defensive, awards...pretty much everything. We all know NIK lives in his own little world where stats mean nothing (unless Kobe has the better stats), where rings matter (only when comparing Kobe to Lebron), where Lebrons supporting cast in Cleveland was just as good as Kobe's in LA (except he believes Pau is the best bigman in the game), where Kobe isnt judged on what he DOES...but rather, what he "could do if he wanted to" (like, turn water into wine and walk on water...and get away with rape...you know...Godly shit...), where Lebron is to blame for he Cavs failures, but when the Lakers sucked after Shaq left (definitely no 60 win seasons goin on post-Shaq/ pre-Gasol)...it was the supporting cast that didnt help Kobe (poor Kobe...), etc...etc.....
^^ Btw.....if anyone else would like to add on to NIKs delusions, feel free ^^
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.
And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.
And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.
many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...
LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.
-
LOL, Michael Jordan's famous quote was "Those who work the hardest are the luckiest people".
It's been known that he got there early before practice & stayed late after practice.
Kobe was too busy raping white bitches & looking at Shaq saying, "You got me with those rings, right?" to have the work ethic in the same universe as Jordan.
& hypothetically, since you love the "Well, IF Kobe did this or he COULD do that", IF LeBron wins seven rings in the next 10 years & has more rings than both, you won't give him the credit because he was a "dick" and left Cleveland. So your opinion is, has been & forever will be irrelevant.
-
Another Kobe/MJ thread. My thoughts..we all grew up with MJ being shoved down our throats. He had the media all over his dick. Not to take away from his talent, but I think it's hard for people from this generation to even accept that someone could surpass him. I'm not saying Kobe has, because I think it's way too soon to say that. But, it's also way too soon to say he doesn't have a shot. On the court, there's really nothing that MJ did that Kobe can't do...
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.
And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.
many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...
LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.
Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.
And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.
many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...
LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.
Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.
Kobe woulda won titles anywhere...thats his personality with the combination of his ability. you think just any star player can be handed a franchise like the Lakers? you know how much work that takes? LOL. If LeBron was drafted to the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons, he woulda been KICKED outta town...this aint no Cleveland. Kobe made it his goal to take over the franchise, and he did, ultimately being chosen by the franchise OVER Shaq, when Shaq was still playing 1st-team basketball and barely winding down his prime. And really, Lakers made one of the fastest turnarounds in history after the '04-'05 expansion team catastrophe..and don't say "Lakers were given Gasol", every superstar needs great supporting players to win. either way, we were the best team in the league even before we acquired Gasol mid-season...Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison. But really, think about it from this perspective.. Scottie Pippen was amazing, that's something that people tend to forget..Scottie was the ultimate supporting player... probably more talented than almost anyone in the league today...and he was comfortable backing Jordan, even with his tremendous skill...Jordan and Pippen playing together back then would be like Kobe and LeBron playing together now...see what im sayin? you really can't discredit Kobe's ring when he was clearly a focal point of arguably the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. that would be like discrediting Kareem's rings cuz he had Magic or discrediting Jerry West's ring cuz he had Chamberlain. Kobe is that special...now, if we're talking about Tony Parker, or an aging Clyde Drexler...yes, their rings mean a lot less, because even though they were all-stars and sometimes even focal points, they were not playing at a hall-of-fame level...if you don't see that, then there must be something wrong witya.
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.
And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.
many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...
LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.
Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.
Kobe woulda won titles anywhere...thats his personality with the combination of his ability. you think just any star player can be handed a franchise like the Lakers? you know how much work that takes? LOL. If LeBron was drafted to the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons, he woulda been KICKED outta town...this aint no Cleveland. Kobe made it his goal to take over the franchise, and he did, ultimately being chosen by the franchise OVER Shaq, when Shaq was still playing 1st-team basketball and barely winding down his prime. And really, Lakers made one of the fastest turnarounds in history after the '04-'05 expansion team catastrophe..and don't say "Lakers were given Gasol", every superstar needs great supporting players to win. either way, we were the best team in the league even before we acquired Gasol mid-season...Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison. But really, think about it from this perspective.. Scottie Pippen was amazing, that's something that people tend to forget..Scottie was the ultimate supporting player... probably more talented than almost anyone in the league today...and he was comfortable backing Jordan, even with his tremendous skill...Jordan and Pippen playing together back then would be like Kobe and LeBron playing together now...see what im sayin? you really can't discredit Kobe's ring when he was clearly a focal point of arguably the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. that would be like discrediting Kareem's rings cuz he had Magic or discrediting Jerry West's ring cuz he had Chamberlain. Kobe is that special...now, if we're talking about Tony Parker, or an aging Clyde Drexler...yes, their rings mean a lot less, because even though they were all-stars and sometimes even focal points, they were not playing at a hall-of-fame level...if you don't see that, then there must be something wrong witya.
You must not realize that this is a team sport man. Kobe wouldnt have won titles anywhere. Thats completely ridiculous. And not one person would agree with that. It takes a TON of things to go right to win a title. You have to have other good players around you. You have to have an organization that is focused on winning. You could put anyone on the Clippers, they will not win a title. Yes if Lebron was drafted by the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons...thats something completely different. For one, a superstar rookie wouldnt be required to be the savior of LA....because they already have the rings. A rookie would just be required to fit in and hopefully turn into something great. I cant even imagine what would have happen with Kobe if he was drafted by the Cavs as a rookie and told to go turn the franchise around lol. Kobe looked lost at best as a rookie playing for the Lakers where he didnt have ANY pressure on him. And no, I dont hold the Lakers getting Gasol against Kobe. For one, Gasol is NOT Shaq in his prime. Kobe is not second to Gasol. Kobe IS the leader of THIS team. But dont try to downplay Gasol. Cus when the Lakers first got him you were already trying to convince people he was the best bigman in the game lol. You would rave on and on about what he did in Memphis. And now...because we are going back and forth, he is no better than Jamison. And yes, Scottie was an amazing complimentary player to Jordan. But if you think Pippen had the same impact for the Bulls that Shaq had for the Lakers three-peat....you have seriously lost your mind. It wouldnt be like Kobe and Lebron playing together lol There was no debate in the 90's over who was better.....Jordan or Pippen? lol. Im not saying Gasol is a better guy to have with you than Pippen. But there isnt one player/coach in the world who would rather have Pippen over Shaq in his prime on his team lol. So yes, Kobe can ALWAYS be penalized for those titles only in that they dont mean as much as a title where he was the leader. Again, he wasnt THE man on those teams. And you are talking about having two players who will end up being top 10 all time on the same team. If Kobe was as great as you think, they probably should have been more dominant then they were. Shit, ESPN doesnt even rate ANY of those three-peat Laker teams in the top 10 all time. The 1999 Spurs however are #8 8)
-
^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?
-
^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?
Would it honestly surprise you that much? lol.
-
^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?
I never said Pippen was as good as Shaq...As for Jamison being as good as Gasol, of course he isn't...but that's because Gasol has elevated his game since playing with Kobe, by a whole lot, while Jamison got worse on the Cavs...What does that tell you? As a franchise player, they were on the same level, though. In fact, Jamison made two all-star teams before joining the Cavs, while Gasol only made one. Gasol has only been viewed as great since playing alongside Kobe. LeBron didn't do the same for Jamison.
-
^we've went over this millions of times, you're right, but you've got shit pretty fuckin twisted in your head...the conclusion is that jordan was handed a franchise from day, coming off a successful college career, whereas kobe came out of high school and had to work his way to being as great as he is...that's why it's also argued by many that kobe has a stronger will, work ethic, and passion for the game than jordan did....but that's also why kobe will probably fall short in terms of stats and possibly accomplishments (if kobe wins over 6 titles, this will be argued). kobe is more of a long-range shooter, so naturally, his field goal percentage will be lower...jordan also had all those losing years with chicago where he was simply a stat-machine, whereas when kobe was at that point in his career, he had to share offensive duties with shaq, which really took a lot of attention away from how good he really was and also deflated his stats...but the bottom line is, when it comes to what they can do on the court, there is absolutely NOTHING jordan coulda done that kobe couldn't...jordan, even with all the horrible teams he was on and exaggerated love/respect from league officiating, couldn't score 81 points in a single game...thats mostly because he never had the range kobe has (especially when he's in the zone). jordan is better short range, kobe is better long range...but when it comes to leading teams to the promise land, they are neck-and-neck...this is why i say if kobe leads the lakers to over 6 titles, he will definitely have surpassed jordan. pull up all the stats you want, cuz they wont prove shit...lebron has better stats than jordan, but is clearly nowhere near the player jordan was. stats do not determine shit...watch the players play, and see for yourself. kobe and jordan were in two different situations, so their stats, accomplishments, or accolades will never match...but as far as skills go, nobody in this league has ever been better than kobe. if he gets number 7, he is 24.....1 above jordan. 8)
I wanna see who it is that says Kobe has a stronger will, passion, and work ethic than Jordan lol.
And yes, youre right...Jordan was forced to take a bad team and turn them into champs. Kobe was handed the Lakers lol. Kobe came into the ideal situation for a young kid who didnt know shit. If you wanna use the fact that Jordan was on a bad team to say thats why his stats were better, then you can also use the fact that Kobe was handed the Lakers as the reason why he has 5 titles. Remember Shaq was the man for three of them. You like to conveniently forget that. You lose all credibility when you say "in terms of leading a team to the promise land they are neck and neck" LOL!!!. Kobe has LEAD two teams to the promise land. Not that it isnt impressive, of course it is. But you are only making yourself look retarded by claiming that Kobe LEADING two teams to the title is the same as Jordan leading six. Duncan lead FOUR teams to the title, and it still isnt on Jordans level. Bottom line, Kobe wont accomplish anywhere NEAR what Jordan did...and he will have more seasons in the league to do it. He has the CHANCE to catch him in titles. But that isnt enough as Jordan was NEVER the second best player on his team. And that ONE game youre gonna use? lol Seriously? That ONE game. lol. I think Jordan could have scored 81. But who knows. As for that ONE game. Jordan had the statistically better game and shot a better percentage from the field. So to use the point TOTAL is kind of silly. It would be one thing if Kobe shot better from the field. But simply taking 9 more shots...eh.
many have said it in the past, and many will in the future...
LOL...so if the Shannon Brown was "handed" the Lakers the way Kobe was, he'd have 5 titles now? a player who came outa high school to a stacked team and had to play behind an all-star Eddie Jones...THATS WHAT KOBE WAS. he had to work his way up... what dont you get? you have way more chances of failing when you have to work into a rotation than when a team is just handed to you. that's just common sense. now that i think of it, most of what you say makes no fucking sense, man...really, MOST of it. you just said Kobe was handed the Lakers, yet it's the exact opposite of that. he was on that Lakers team, initially, as a 10th or 11th player in the rotation...Jordan was the one who was handed the Bulls. and you stay penalizing Kobe for his 1st three titles...honestlly, the fact that Kobe was 21-22-23 when he won those titles, as the 1st option in many of the games, might be more amazing than anything Jordan was capable of doing in the 1st portion of his career...why penalize Kobe's greatness because he had to play with Shaq? that makes no sense...Kobe was a captain of the team, was already a future hall-of-famer, was the one hitting the clutch shots and running the offense down the stretch...his stats were pretty much on par with Shaq's....HE IS NOT A ROBIN. GET IT? If he's a Robin, so was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and you KNOW that simply sounds fuckin stupid...As for the 81 points, you can say what if, what if...many people have gone on record to say Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively...Jordan actually attempted WAY MORE field goals than Kobe has throughout his career, and even shot more field goals in a single game than Kobe ever did...yup! jordan has taken more shots in a single game than Kobe did in his 81 point performance! but fuck stats...it's not about that...take away the accolades, take away the stats, take away the rings, take away everything...on the court, kobe is neck-and-neck with jordan as far as skill, passion, talent, will, etc...there is nothing jordan could do that kobe couldn't...and i truly believe that kobe, with his skill and drive, woulda had 8 straight titles (or more) if he was in jordan's shoes.
Youre comparing Shannon Brown to Kobe. I didnt say Kobe was a backup role player. I said he was fortunate enough to end up on the Lakers. I dont think anyone out there would argue that if Kobe stayed a Hornet he would have 5 titles right now. lol. When I say Kobe was handed the Lakers I dont mean as in him being given the team. I mean he ended up with a team that has a winning tradition, ownership that will spend anything to win, an all star roster, eventually landing one of the best bigmen of all time, a city where free agents flock to cus of media attention...etc...etc. Kobe got the chance to sit back and grow into his role and try to mature as a player. Jordan and Lebron were just given the keys to bad teams and told..."Go make us great!". Kobe didnt have that kind of pressure coming into the league. He just had to keep things afloat. If he would have flopped (you said yourself he was low on the rotation)...it would hardly even have been remembered. If Lebron flopped, he would be rated the biggest bust in Basketball history. It worked out good for Kobe cus he needed that time to mature. He wouldnt have been ready to lead clearly. And I see youre getting emotional about the Robin thing lol. Like it or not, Kobe will ALWAYS be penalized for those first three championships. Its not that they take AWAY from his career obviously. Its that you cant compare those titles to titles won by Jordan, or any other star who completely lead their team. Even you yourself know that YOU value the last two Kobe titles far more than the Shaq titles...because Kobe was the leader. Thats just the way shit is. Robinson didnt win titles until Duncan got there. Like it or not, those titles would have meant more to Robinsons career had he done it WITHOUT Duncan. The same as Kobe winning those titles. They would have meant more if he did it WITHOUT Shaq.
Kobe woulda won titles anywhere...thats his personality with the combination of his ability. you think just any star player can be handed a franchise like the Lakers? you know how much work that takes? LOL. If LeBron was drafted to the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons, he woulda been KICKED outta town...this aint no Cleveland. Kobe made it his goal to take over the franchise, and he did, ultimately being chosen by the franchise OVER Shaq, when Shaq was still playing 1st-team basketball and barely winding down his prime. And really, Lakers made one of the fastest turnarounds in history after the '04-'05 expansion team catastrophe..and don't say "Lakers were given Gasol", every superstar needs great supporting players to win. either way, we were the best team in the league even before we acquired Gasol mid-season...Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison. But really, think about it from this perspective.. Scottie Pippen was amazing, that's something that people tend to forget..Scottie was the ultimate supporting player... probably more talented than almost anyone in the league today...and he was comfortable backing Jordan, even with his tremendous skill...Jordan and Pippen playing together back then would be like Kobe and LeBron playing together now...see what im sayin? you really can't discredit Kobe's ring when he was clearly a focal point of arguably the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. that would be like discrediting Kareem's rings cuz he had Magic or discrediting Jerry West's ring cuz he had Chamberlain. Kobe is that special...now, if we're talking about Tony Parker, or an aging Clyde Drexler...yes, their rings mean a lot less, because even though they were all-stars and sometimes even focal points, they were not playing at a hall-of-fame level...if you don't see that, then there must be something wrong witya.
You must not realize that this is a team sport man. Kobe wouldnt have won titles anywhere. Thats completely ridiculous. And not one person would agree with that. It takes a TON of things to go right to win a title. You have to have other good players around you. You have to have an organization that is focused on winning. You could put anyone on the Clippers, they will not win a title. Yes if Lebron was drafted by the Lakers and lost his first 7 seasons...thats something completely different. For one, a superstar rookie wouldnt be required to be the savior of LA....because they already have the rings. A rookie would just be required to fit in and hopefully turn into something great. I cant even imagine what would have happen with Kobe if he was drafted by the Cavs as a rookie and told to go turn the franchise around lol. Kobe looked lost at best as a rookie playing for the Lakers where he didnt have ANY pressure on him. And no, I dont hold the Lakers getting Gasol against Kobe. For one, Gasol is NOT Shaq in his prime. Kobe is not second to Gasol. Kobe IS the leader of THIS team. But dont try to downplay Gasol. Cus when the Lakers first got him you were already trying to convince people he was the best bigman in the game lol. You would rave on and on about what he did in Memphis. And now...because we are going back and forth, he is no better than Jamison. And yes, Scottie was an amazing complimentary player to Jordan. But if you think Pippen had the same impact for the Bulls that Shaq had for the Lakers three-peat....you have seriously lost your mind. It wouldnt be like Kobe and Lebron playing together lol There was no debate in the 90's over who was better.....Jordan or Pippen? lol. Im not saying Gasol is a better guy to have with you than Pippen. But there isnt one player/coach in the world who would rather have Pippen over Shaq in his prime on his team lol. So yes, Kobe can ALWAYS be penalized for those titles only in that they dont mean as much as a title where he was the leader. Again, he wasnt THE man on those teams. And you are talking about having two players who will end up being top 10 all time on the same team. If Kobe was as great as you think, they probably should have been more dominant then they were. Shit, ESPN doesnt even rate ANY of those three-peat Laker teams in the top 10 all time. The 1999 Spurs however are #8 8)
Aside from the hype machine fanatics, there is no debate over whether Lebron is better than Kobe, man. LOL. what don't you get?...it's clear to the purests that Kobe is far, far ahead of Lebron right now, even in the beat-up, injured state that he's currently in. if kobe is comparable to jordan, lebron is comparable to dominique. but back to the point, Kobe WOULD have won titles anywhere...why do you think he's just some Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade? or Vince Carter? he's not your every day superstar...with a capable team built around him, this guy was destined to win rings, no matter where he was...put him on New Orleans instead Chris Paul a couple years back with Tyson Chandler and David West. put him in Denver instead Melo with Chauncey Billups, Nene, and K-Mart. he would find a way, the dude was born to win, and that's why every Laker fan is so thankful that we found him, not the other way around...PeACe
-
^Did he really say that Pippen was as good as Shaq and that Jamison is as good as Gasol, or do you just say that for the effect?
He used Pippen as his argument for Jordan having help...just like Kobe had Shaq. Im assuming he (it was NIK) was comparing Kobe to Jordan in that little comparison...which would make Pippen, Shaq. Funny enough is that Pippen was the #2 guy....as was Kobe. So Kobe would be more like Pippen. But NIK hates when people say that lolol.
And yes, he said Gasol was no better than Jamison without Kobe.
"Gasol without Kobe is no better than Antawn Jamison"
However NIK was arguing Gasol as being the best, if not ONE of the best bigmen in the game the minute he found out he was coming to LA. He went on and on about how GREAT Gasol was with Memphis. He can argue one way or the other...thats fine. But a little consistency would be nice.
-
^ I don't think anyone's taking away from how good Gasol was prior to LA, he's just elevated his game since then. Jamison was also a great big man (not quite on Gasol's level but damn close) but he obviously just didn't fit in Cleveland for whatever reason.
-
^ I don't think anyone's taking away from how good Gasol was prior to LA, he's just elevated his game since then. Jamison was also a great big man (not quite on Gasol's level but damn close) but he obviously just didn't fit in Cleveland for whatever reason.
it was a late season trade, u couldnt expect much, jamison would of done much better as a 6th man running the offense with the bench than basically letting his talents go to waste and just watching lebron.
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
Just cause Jamison didn't fit the Cavs system doesn't mean he's not a great second piece. Yeah he's not quite on Gasol's level but he's alot better than he played with the Cavs last year.
-
random put in, lebronze complains about an elbow and kobe averages more than 30 in the playoffs and wins the finals with a broken SHOOTING finger, a knee that had to be drained more than once in the play offs, and a tweaked ankle.
edit: lol im watchin nba tv right now top ten games of the season lol love how admunson tries to avoid gettin guarded by kobe (on the switch), its literally a mismatch he just moves away from the paint like "i rather get odom"
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
Just cause Jamison didn't fit the Cavs system doesn't mean he's not a great second piece. Yeah he's not quite on Gasol's level but he's alot better than he played with the Cavs last year.
I'm not denying that. But Gasol is touted as one of the best big men in basketball & Jamison is one of those "B" All-Stars. Arenas has been gone, he was virtually alone on the Wizards; anybody playing by themselves is going to have an increase of numbers. Even Kobe Bryant had bigger numbers before the Lakers got him help.
Sure, Jamison could play better, but he's not even in the same league to be compared to Gasol.
Gasol is getting more experience in the league & is getting better, he's a better rebounder; that's not Kobe's doing, he can't control his rebounds & he's got some of the finest post moves with great footwork; not Kobe's doing either. The only argument that you could make for Kobe is that teams are so focused on him that Gasol doesn't have as much heat on him.
But unless Kobe was averaging 9-10 assists a game & 8 of them were to Gasol, I can't sit here & listen to "Oh Kobe has made Gasol into this 'best bigman in the league' status". It's a crazed thought.
-
random put in, lebronze complains about an elbow and kobe averages more than 30 in the playoffs and wins the finals with a broken SHOOTING finger, a knee that had to be drained more than once in the play offs, and a tweaked ankle.
edit: lol im watchin nba tv right now top ten games of the season lol love how admunson tries to avoid gettin guarded by kobe (on the switch), its literally a mismatch he just moves away from the paint like "i rather get odom"
1. And ontop of it...Lebron had Jamison while Kobe was stuck with Gasol.
2. Amundson is a beast
*sarcasm* :-X
-
random put in, lebronze complains about an elbow and kobe averages more than 30 in the playoffs and wins the finals with a broken SHOOTING finger, a knee that had to be drained more than once in the play offs, and a tweaked ankle.
edit: lol im watchin nba tv right now top ten games of the season lol love how admunson tries to avoid gettin guarded by kobe (on the switch), its literally a mismatch he just moves away from the paint like "i rather get odom"
1. And ontop of it...Lebron had Jamison while Kobe was stuck with Gasol.
2. Amundson is a beast
*sarcasm* :-X
i dont know if i saw my big guys not taking advatadge of a mismatch on the offensive end ill be pretty mad, admunson will never be great, nigga has now balls.
-
random put in, lebronze complains about an elbow and kobe averages more than 30 in the playoffs and wins the finals with a broken SHOOTING finger, a knee that had to be drained more than once in the play offs, and a tweaked ankle.
edit: lol im watchin nba tv right now top ten games of the season lol love how admunson tries to avoid gettin guarded by kobe (on the switch), its literally a mismatch he just moves away from the paint like "i rather get odom"
1. And ontop of it...Lebron had Jamison while Kobe was stuck with Gasol.
2. Amundson is a beast
*sarcasm* :-X
i dont know if i saw my big guys not taking advatadge of a mismatch on the offensive end ill be pretty mad, admunson will never be great, nigga has now balls.
He's an ok back up high energy guy. Thats about it. I would take him on the Spurs actually to play with the second unit. But he isnt anything special other then bringing some energy.
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
Just cause Jamison didn't fit the Cavs system doesn't mean he's not a great second piece. Yeah he's not quite on Gasol's level but he's alot better than he played with the Cavs last year.
I'm not denying that. But Gasol is touted as one of the best big men in basketball & Jamison is one of those "B" All-Stars. Arenas has been gone, he was virtually alone on the Wizards; anybody playing by themselves is going to have an increase of numbers. Even Kobe Bryant had bigger numbers before the Lakers got him help.
Sure, Jamison could play better, but he's not even in the same league to be compared to Gasol.
Gasol is getting more experience in the league & is getting better, he's a better rebounder; that's not Kobe's doing, he can't control his rebounds & he's got some of the finest post moves with great footwork; not Kobe's doing either. The only argument that you could make for Kobe is that teams are so focused on him that Gasol doesn't have as much heat on him.
But unless Kobe was averaging 9-10 assists a game & 8 of them were to Gasol, I can't sit here & listen to "Oh Kobe has made Gasol into this 'best bigman in the league' status". It's a crazed thought.
I see what you're saying but you don't necessarily have to average a shitload of assists to help a player out. I also think Jamison had trouble cause LeBron did so much ball handling. Part of that's on James but I think it was more Mike Browns fuck up. He never ran plays for anyone, just constant isolations for LeBron.
-
^Well Mike Brown wasn't even coach; I suppose that's where Phil Jackson gets his respect from. :P
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
idiot, they were both franchise players and nightly double-double threats for their teams before they were traded...in fact, Jamison made 2 all-star teams to Gasol's 1...that's where the comparison ends, though, because Kobe elevated Gasol's game, while LeBron killed Jamison's...if you don't see that, which you probably don't, I can't say i'm surprised.
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
idiot, they were both franchise players and nightly double-double threats for their teams before they were traded...in fact, Jamison made 2 all-star teams to Gasol's 1...that's where the comparison ends, though, because Kobe elevated Gasol's game, while LeBron killed Jamison's...if you don't see that, which you probably don't, I can't say i'm surprised.
For a man who played college ball, you say some stupid shit; although, you're biased, so I guess that's natural.
Gasol got better, he developed. & if it's anything, it's Phil Jackson's schemes, not Kobe Bryant just exisiting.
& like I said, Jamison was all alone on Washington, naturally there is a boost in those stats & stats is what gets you into All-Star games; along with popularity.
Jamison was never a winner either. I mean, you're so quick to point fingers at LeBron and say he can't handle to pressure, but why can't it just be Jamison who crumbled & didn't play well?
BIASED.
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
idiot, they were both franchise players and nightly double-double threats for their teams before they were traded...in fact, Jamison made 2 all-star teams to Gasol's 1...that's where the comparison ends, though, because Kobe elevated Gasol's game, while LeBron killed Jamison's...if you don't see that, which you probably don't, I can't say i'm surprised.
For a man who played college ball, you say some stupid shit; although, you're biased, so I guess that's natural.
Gasol got better, he developed. & if it's anything, it's Phil Jackson's schemes, not Kobe Bryant just exisiting.
& like I said, Jamison was all alone on Washington, naturally there is a boost in those stats & stats is what gets you into All-Star games; along with popularity.
Jamison was never a winner either. I mean, you're so quick to point fingers at LeBron and say he can't handle to pressure, but why can't it just be Jamison who crumbled & didn't play well?
BIASED.
wtf are you talking about, Jamison was all alone in Washington? He played with a ball-dominant scoring point guard in Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, that's two other all-stars...talk about not making sense. And Gasol wasn't a winner before Kobe either...remember, he couldn't even win a playoff game before joining the Lakers. everything i say makes perfect sense, your mind just can't grasp it, because you want to think LeBron is greater than he truly is so fuckin bad, and it's awful...PeACe
-
^LOL, what? Gilbert has barely been playing the last few seasons & Caron was an all-star, but he's another B player; he's not leading a team to victory.
& LOL, it's hard NOT to be a winner when you're playing with the best player in the game with the "next Wilt Chamberlain", Ron Ron & Odom.
But Gasol clearly stepped him game up, I don't understand how you can possibly give Kobe credit for Gasol becoming less a pillow & a better rebounder lol.
-
^LOL, what? Gilbert has barely been playing the last few seasons & Caron was an all-star, but he's another B player; he's not leading a team to victory.
& LOL, it's hard NOT to be a winner when you're playing with the best player in the game with the "next Wilt Chamberlain", Ron Ron & Odom.
But Gasol clearly stepped him game up, I don't understand how you can possibly give Kobe credit for Gasol becoming less a pillow & a better rebounder lol.
Jamison was a double-double guy for Washington since 2004, and he was also the face of the Warriors at one point, and even averaged 25 points...
Gasol's and Kobe's game feed off of each other. thats what great players do...Kobe was able to raise Gasol's level of competitiveness and play. Gasol himself will tell you that...Jamison wouldn't.
-
^LOL, what? Gilbert has barely been playing the last few seasons & Caron was an all-star, but he's another B player; he's not leading a team to victory.
& LOL, it's hard NOT to be a winner when you're playing with the best player in the game with the "next Wilt Chamberlain", Ron Ron & Odom.
But Gasol clearly stepped him game up, I don't understand how you can possibly give Kobe credit for Gasol becoming less a pillow & a better rebounder lol.
Jamison was a double-double guy for Washington since 2004, and he was also the face of the Warriors at one point, and even averaged 25 points...
Gasol's and Kobe's game feed off of each other. thats what great players do...Kobe was able to raise Gasol's level of competitiveness and play. Gasol himself will tell you that...Jamison wouldn't.
In all fairness, Gasol has had a much longer tenure with Kobe than Lebron and Jamison did together, right?
Secondly, the Cavs ran the WORST offense in the league, and few plays were ever actually ran by anyone other than Lebron. Gasol, on the other hand, was the perfect fit for the Lakers triangle offense.
Jamison was better a few years ago, but at this point his defense is horrible. Gasol is much taller and obviously a more effective player, he just had to quit being such a bitch and I DO credit Kobe, and obviously Phil for this.
Anyway, this thread is getting tired...lets kill it. MJ> Kobe> Lebron
-
Since NIK is obsessed with the "if" argument; "if Kobe did this", "Kobe could do that", I'll bust one out myself & say "IF" the Cavs had Gasol & the Lakers had Jamison, both players "would" play the same way & the Cavs "would" win.
-
^you're simply braindead if you think Gasol could be half as effective as he is in the Cavs offense.
-
At this point, even though lebron has better physical tools, its pretty hard to argue against Kobe> Lebron since Kobe has led his team to two straight chips.
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
Detroit's defense WAS brutal, which is why MJ couldn't defeat the Pistons when they were in their prime. And yea, MJ averages 23 field goal attempts on his career to Kobe's 19, as well as 38 minutes on his career to Kobe's 36, so take THAT into consideration when adding your little stats...another argument one could make for Kobe is that he has won these last two titles with less than what Jordan won with. Pippen is on another level than anyone Kobe had on these last two championship teams, so if Kobe playing with Shaq for the first three titles factors in, then Kobe playing without a Pippen for the last two should as well...either way, lets wait and enjoy, and resume the discussions when it's all said and done.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
Detroit's defense WAS brutal, which is why MJ couldn't defeat the Pistons when they were in their prime. And yea, MJ averages 23 field goal attempts on his career to Kobe's 19, as well as 38 minutes on his career to Kobe's 36, so take THAT into consideration when adding your little stats...another argument one could make for Kobe is that he has won these last two titles with less than what Jordan won with. Pippen is on another level than anyone Kobe had on these last two championship teams, so if Kobe playing with Shaq for the first three titles factors in, then Kobe playing without a Pippen for the last two should as well...either way, lets wait and enjoy, and resume the discussions when it's all said and done.
Take a look again at the rosters on MJ's teams? Who were his scoring posts??? Kobe has Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. All three are better than Ho Grant, and we both know how one dimensional ROdman was(although he was effective).
Also, I wonder what would happen if you threw out Kobe's first few seasons, like even the first two. How many FG attempts then? Regardless, FG attempts are only relevant in comparison to FG %.
What did MJ shoot in his 37 PPG season? What did Kobe shoot in his 35PPG season?
And of course, when comparing the two, I think its best we leave out the playoffs, ESPECIALLY finals series.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
Detroit's defense WAS brutal, which is why MJ couldn't defeat the Pistons when they were in their prime. And yea, MJ averages 23 field goal attempts on his career to Kobe's 19, as well as 38 minutes on his career to Kobe's 36, so take THAT into consideration when adding your little stats...another argument one could make for Kobe is that he has won these last two titles with less than what Jordan won with. Pippen is on another level than anyone Kobe had on these last two championship teams, so if Kobe playing with Shaq for the first three titles factors in, then Kobe playing without a Pippen for the last two should as well...either way, lets wait and enjoy, and resume the discussions when it's all said and done.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, STFU! Jordan had Pippen & Rodman. Kobe had Gasol, Artest, Odom, Bynum, Fisher. Honestly, this years team would have a strong chance to beat the 3-peat team & if there wasn't an on-going argument of MJ vs. Kobe & LeBron vs. Kobe you'd be the first motherfucker to admit that this years team could easily play with, if not beat the 3-peat team; but since you have to make a point that Kobe has "no one", you belittle the current team; fucking pathetic.
& we would "sit back & enjoy" if you didn't make a thread or post (forgot) roughly a year ago saying "I'm convinced Kobe > MJ". ::)
-
The fact Gasol & Jamison are being compared as similar players automatically makes this thread & it's arguments a joke lol.
idiot, they were both franchise players and nightly double-double threats for their teams before they were traded...in fact, Jamison made 2 all-star teams to Gasol's 1...that's where the comparison ends, though, because Kobe elevated Gasol's game, while LeBron killed Jamison's...if you don't see that, which you probably don't, I can't say i'm surprised.
For a man who played college ball, you say some stupid shit; although, you're biased, so I guess that's natural.
Who played college ball?! lol
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
lol Jordan played in an era where the defenses were actually better for the most part lol. The thing is, most of those defenses were in his own conference. So his defensive hurdles were in the playoffs, not the finals. Those Knicks teams he played against would hurt this Celtics team...who were just as good as the Lakers this last year. Oakley, Mason, Ewing lol. Cmon. The rules over the years have been changed to HELP offense, we all know that. Its the same in damn near every sport since offense gets ratings. The league doesnt like to do too much to give us more defensive battles, they want 120-119 games. The league likes having teams play zone defense because it forces offenses to have better ball movement to score, and more three pointers. More three point shooting leads to more fast breaks, and higher scores. The league doesnt want a ton of scoring in the paint unless its dunk. This is why we see less and less "back to the basket" bigmen and more faceup guys. The zone makes playing with your back to the basket as a bigman more difficult. Basically, the zones help create a more uptempo game and benefit perimeter guys...and we all know the league LOVES to promote perimeter guys.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
Detroit's defense WAS brutal, which is why MJ couldn't defeat the Pistons when they were in their prime. And yea, MJ averages 23 field goal attempts on his career to Kobe's 19, as well as 38 minutes on his career to Kobe's 36, so take THAT into consideration when adding your little stats...another argument one could make for Kobe is that he has won these last two titles with less than what Jordan won with. Pippen is on another level than anyone Kobe had on these last two championship teams, so if Kobe playing with Shaq for the first three titles factors in, then Kobe playing without a Pippen for the last two should as well...either way, lets wait and enjoy, and resume the discussions when it's all said and done.
Take a look again at the rosters on MJ's teams? Who were his scoring posts??? Kobe has Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. All three are better than Ho Grant, and we both know how one dimensional ROdman was(although he was effective).
Also, I wonder what would happen if you threw out Kobe's first few seasons, like even the first two. How many FG attempts then? Regardless, FG attempts are only relevant in comparison to FG %.
What did MJ shoot in his 37 PPG season? What did Kobe shoot in his 35PPG season?
And of course, when comparing the two, I think its best we leave out the playoffs, ESPECIALLY finals series.
Horace Grant was a beast in his prime...a nightly 14-10 guy during his Chicago stint, much more consistent than Odom and much healthier than Bynum. Kobe has Gasol, yes, but he doesn't have a Pippen...Lets not play down those Bulls team, because they were GREAT teams. Pippen was actually argued by many as the 2nd best player in the league during his prime in Chicago. Rodman is one of the greatest rebounders in NBA history, and played better defense than ANY of the Laker bigs. Then people also like to forget Toni Kukoc, ANOTHER 15-5-5 guy during his stay with Chicago, and Ron Harper with Chicago was like a Derek Fisher who could play excellent defense. Steve Kerr is a better shooter than anyone Kobe has EVER played with (except for maybe Glen Rice in the threepeat era). BJ Armstrong was an ALL-STAR. LOL. When did Kobe have an all-star point guard? Are you tryna tell me that the Lakers of last year are rivaling those teams? That team, MINUS Jordan, made it to the Eastern Semis...lets not act like they weren't stacked. And again, fg% doesn't play into a Kobe-Jordan argument...Jordan played more in the post because he had less range than Kobe. Is Shaq better than Jordan because he shot a higher field goal percentage? If Jordan was a better shooter from long range and was able to hit the three on a more consistent basis, his fg% would naturaly dip... but Kobe averages 1 more three pointer made per game than Jordan did. Kobe is great on the post AND the perimeter, whereas Jordan did most of his damage in or around the paint, hence the increased fg%. Jordan also had his struggles in the playoffs and Finals, as every great player does...he simply wasn't the hero he was painted out to be. What if John Paxson misses that three? Jordan's looking at a Game 7 on Phoenix's home floor. Sure, Kobe lost in the Finals of '08, but Jordan couldn't even make the Finals in '95...Does that get held against him as often? No, because he's MJ. Really, though, the gap between Kobe and Jordan is much, MUCH closer than most people would like to think...and even you are probably starting to realize it.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
Detroit's defense WAS brutal, which is why MJ couldn't defeat the Pistons when they were in their prime. And yea, MJ averages 23 field goal attempts on his career to Kobe's 19, as well as 38 minutes on his career to Kobe's 36, so take THAT into consideration when adding your little stats...another argument one could make for Kobe is that he has won these last two titles with less than what Jordan won with. Pippen is on another level than anyone Kobe had on these last two championship teams, so if Kobe playing with Shaq for the first three titles factors in, then Kobe playing without a Pippen for the last two should as well...either way, lets wait and enjoy, and resume the discussions when it's all said and done.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, STFU! Jordan had Pippen & Rodman. Kobe had Gasol, Artest, Odom, Bynum, Fisher. Honestly, this years team would have a strong chance to beat the 3-peat team & if there wasn't an on-going argument of MJ vs. Kobe & LeBron vs. Kobe you'd be the first motherfucker to admit that this years team could easily play with, if not beat the 3-peat team; but since you have to make a point that Kobe has "no one", you belittle the current team; fucking pathetic.
& we would "sit back & enjoy" if you didn't make a thread or post (forgot) roughly a year ago saying "I'm convinced Kobe > MJ". ::)
So the Lakers team of the last two years would beat the threepeat Bulls?...In that case, there's no way Kobe isn't better than Jordan. LOL.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
lol Jordan played in an era where the defenses were actually better for the most part lol. The thing is, most of those defenses were in his own conference. So his defensive hurdles were in the playoffs, not the finals. Those Knicks teams he played against would hurt this Celtics team...who were just as good as the Lakers this last year. Oakley, Mason, Ewing lol. Cmon. The rules over the years have been changed to HELP offense, we all know that. Its the same in damn near every sport since offense gets ratings. The league doesnt like to do too much to give us more defensive battles, they want 120-119 games. The league likes having teams play zone defense because it forces offenses to have better ball movement to score, and more three pointers. More three point shooting leads to more fast breaks, and higher scores. The league doesnt want a ton of scoring in the paint unless its dunk. This is why we see less and less "back to the basket" bigmen and more faceup guys. The zone makes playing with your back to the basket as a bigman more difficult. Basically, the zones help create a more uptempo game and benefit perimeter guys...and we all know the league LOVES to promote perimeter guys.
How are the Celtics as good as the Lakers when the Lakers won? LOL. you're something else...Jordan won rings over some great defensive teams, huh? the 90's Lakers with Divac as the anchor at center, amazing! The Phoenix Suns of the 90s, damn, who's ever faced defense like that? and lets not forget the Jazz and Sonics, holy shit, straight defensive oriented teams with amazing perimeter players to stop Jordan...LOL. Really, the toughest defense Jordan has ever faced was the Pistons of the 80s, and he wasnt able to beat them until they started aging. Offense is not at an all-time high, because winning teams are still always the ones who can play great defense...there will never be another player who averages 50 points for a season or a tripple-double, because offense is not the same as it used to be with all the youth, talent, and athleticism that EVERY team is stacked with nowadays. players, on average, are way more athletic nowadays, which is what forced the rule changes...zone defense also makes it a lot easier to stop players from going to the paint. that probably woulda been one of the main tactics used on Jordan, since his shot wasn't always so on-point and the zone gives up jumpshots. and again, nobody wants to acknowledge that Jordan's biggest rival on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler.......then again, I'm speakin to someone who still thinks "Lebron>Kobe" :-X
-
Off pure sexiness yes, Lebron> Kobe
no homo
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
Pistons defense was brutal and physical, so was the Knicks. The Celtics are old as shit and their best defensive post player didn't even finish the series this year. They WERE great in 2008 though
Exactly, lets sit and wait. Props on that.
DidMJ really average more FG attempts than Kobe? Even if this is the case, his FG percentage is much better.
Throw stats out the window and its gonna be REALLY hard for Kobe to catch MJ; in fact, the STAT that many Kobe fans often use is that he scored 81 in a game...like this alone could mean he is better than MJ ::)
Detroit's defense WAS brutal, which is why MJ couldn't defeat the Pistons when they were in their prime. And yea, MJ averages 23 field goal attempts on his career to Kobe's 19, as well as 38 minutes on his career to Kobe's 36, so take THAT into consideration when adding your little stats...another argument one could make for Kobe is that he has won these last two titles with less than what Jordan won with. Pippen is on another level than anyone Kobe had on these last two championship teams, so if Kobe playing with Shaq for the first three titles factors in, then Kobe playing without a Pippen for the last two should as well...either way, lets wait and enjoy, and resume the discussions when it's all said and done.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, STFU! Jordan had Pippen & Rodman. Kobe had Gasol, Artest, Odom, Bynum, Fisher. Honestly, this years team would have a strong chance to beat the 3-peat team & if there wasn't an on-going argument of MJ vs. Kobe & LeBron vs. Kobe you'd be the first motherfucker to admit that this years team could easily play with, if not beat the 3-peat team; but since you have to make a point that Kobe has "no one", you belittle the current team; fucking pathetic.
& we would "sit back & enjoy" if you didn't make a thread or post (forgot) roughly a year ago saying "I'm convinced Kobe > MJ". ::)
So the Lakers team of the last two years would beat the threepeat Bulls?...In that case, there's no way Kobe isn't better than Jordan. LOL.
No, the Lakers with Shaq.
-
=
However, its also pretty hard to argue against MJ>Kobe, considering MJ was 6 for 6 in titles, won 6 finals MVPs, averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, AND played in an era where there was no handchecking called. Furthermore, post players were bigger, and were allowed to stand in the key as long as they wanted on defense.
Lets also not forget that MJ was also in an era with way less athleticism, where zone defense didn't exist, where the game was much slower, and where he never won over a defense like the Boston Celtics of this year...I mean, MJ's biggest competition on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler LOL....as for the stats, MJ also averaged way more field goal and free throw ATTEMPTS than Kobe, so lets throw stats out this argument once and for all, because LeBron averages more rebounds, assists, and blocks on his career than MJ, and even has a better 3 point fg percentage, as well! :-X. To say Kobe doesn't have a chance based on that is not only wrong, but a slap in the face to true basketball purists.......so lets sit tight and wait for the final outcome.
lol Jordan played in an era where the defenses were actually better for the most part lol. The thing is, most of those defenses were in his own conference. So his defensive hurdles were in the playoffs, not the finals. Those Knicks teams he played against would hurt this Celtics team...who were just as good as the Lakers this last year. Oakley, Mason, Ewing lol. Cmon. The rules over the years have been changed to HELP offense, we all know that. Its the same in damn near every sport since offense gets ratings. The league doesnt like to do too much to give us more defensive battles, they want 120-119 games. The league likes having teams play zone defense because it forces offenses to have better ball movement to score, and more three pointers. More three point shooting leads to more fast breaks, and higher scores. The league doesnt want a ton of scoring in the paint unless its dunk. This is why we see less and less "back to the basket" bigmen and more faceup guys. The zone makes playing with your back to the basket as a bigman more difficult. Basically, the zones help create a more uptempo game and benefit perimeter guys...and we all know the league LOVES to promote perimeter guys.
How are the Celtics as good as the Lakers when the Lakers won? LOL. you're something else...Jordan won rings over some great defensive teams, huh? the 90's Lakers with Divac as the anchor at center, amazing! The Phoenix Suns of the 90s, damn, who's ever faced defense like that? and lets not forget the Jazz and Sonics, holy shit, straight defensive oriented teams with amazing perimeter players to stop Jordan...LOL. Really, the toughest defense Jordan has ever faced was the Pistons of the 80s, and he wasnt able to beat them until they started aging. Offense is not at an all-time high, because winning teams are still always the ones who can play great defense...there will never be another player who averages 50 points for a season or a tripple-double, because offense is not the same as it used to be with all the youth, talent, and athleticism that EVERY team is stacked with nowadays. players, on average, are way more athletic nowadays, which is what forced the rule changes...zone defense also makes it a lot easier to stop players from going to the paint. that probably woulda been one of the main tactics used on Jordan, since his shot wasn't always so on-point and the zone gives up jumpshots. and again, nobody wants to acknowledge that Jordan's biggest rival on the perimeter was an aging Clyde Drexler.......then again, I'm speakin to someone who still thinks "Lebron>Kobe" :-X
This years finals came down strictly to who had homecourt advantage. Whoever did, would have won the series. And if Perkins wasnt out, I (and many) think the Celtics would have taken game 7. They were two evenly matched teams.
And read my post again. I said the dominant defenses Jordan had to face were in the Eastern Conference PLAYOFFS, not the finals. Most of the dominant defensive teams of that era were in the East. Not the West. The Knicks teams he was beating would make this current Celtics team look soft. And yeah no one is gonna average 50 points/game...but no one was in Jordans era either lol. You are all over the place with your argument. What does averaging 50/game have to do with Jordan? Bottom line is Jordan did more, and was more efficient against better defenses and rules that werent so geared to helping out overall offense in a game. Players get more athletic as time goes on...but typically not a HUGE difference in a matter of just 10-15 years lol. Again, youre comparing Kobe to Jordan as if Jordan played in the 50's. And you have to be completely out of your mind if you think the NBA made the change to allowing zone defense...in order to KEEP slashers from getting into the paint lol. They wanted to speed the game up, and the zone can do that. Like I said, it forces teams to shoot a lot of outside jumpers which creates more fastbreaks...and increases the tempo of the games. This is good for your athletic players (like Kobe). So he has an advantage now that he wouldnt have had if he played in the mid 90's. Again, the main players the zone is hurting are back to the basket bigmen. It is much easier to double team out of a zone and you dont have to worry about the illegal defense. Hurting bigs in turn HELPS perimeter offensive players.
And what do u mean Jordans biggest rival? They werent rivals. Jordan didnt have ANY real rivals on an individual level because he was head and shoulders above anyone in the league. Including Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Payton, Wilkins, etc...etc. Hell even Magic, Bird and Isaiah. You cant have a rivalry when no one is on your level. His rivalries were with TEAMS. The Knicks were his rivals. The Cavs were his rivals. Etc. Kobe has a rivalry with LeBron (not a real rivalry, just a media/fan created rivalry) because there is a debate as to which perimeter player is better.
-
^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
-
^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
If Bynum wasn't injured in 2008, the Lakers woulda had a chance, but really, didn't they get beat by 46 or some shit, and also blow a huge lead in another game? Bynu ain't THAT good.
As for this year, Game 7 woulda been VERY interesting if Perkins played, don't you think?
NIK: by ABOVE MJ, do you mean better, or just more titles? Cuz Russell has more titles, and he isn't "above" Jordan...
-
^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
If Bynum wasn't injured in 2008, the Lakers woulda had a chance, but really, didn't they get beat by 46 or some shit, and also blow a huge lead in another game? Bynu ain't THAT good.
As for this year, Game 7 woulda been VERY interesting if Perkins played, don't you think?
NIK: by ABOVE MJ, do you mean better, or just more titles? Cuz Russell has more titles, and he isn't "above" Jordan...
I already think that Kobe has at least reached Jordan's level in terms of skill and ability...so when he gets 7 titles, in my eyes, he will be above Jordan in terms of skill, ability AND accomplishments, which would put him above Jordan in general. Lakers woulda not blown that 24 lpoint ead in Game 4 of the '08 Finals with Bynum there, and woulda followed that game up with an easy victory in Game 5 had Bynum AND Ariza not been injrued...that's just as legit as saying Boston woulda won with Perkins...Hoenstly, though, my whole point was that we can sit here and play the "what if" game all day, but it's simply not worth it...
-
^Yea...and if Bynum never got injured, Lakers would be going on their 4th straight title led by Kobe now, which would already put him above Jordan..we could play the "if" game all day if you want. Bottom line, you cannot judge the outcome of greatness while you are in the midst of witnessing it.
If Bynum wasn't injured in 2008, the Lakers woulda had a chance, but really, didn't they get beat by 46 or some shit, and also blow a huge lead in another game? Bynu ain't THAT good.
As for this year, Game 7 woulda been VERY interesting if Perkins played, don't you think?
NIK: by ABOVE MJ, do you mean better, or just more titles? Cuz Russell has more titles, and he isn't "above" Jordan...
I already think that Kobe has at least reached Jordan's level in terms of skill and ability...so when he gets 7 titles, in my eyes, he will be above Jordan in terms of skill, ability AND accomplishments, which would put him above Jordan in general. Lakers woulda not blown that 24 lpoint ead in Game 4 of the '08 Finals with Bynum there, and woulda followed that game up with an easy victory in Game 5 had Bynum AND Ariza not been injrued...that's just as legit as saying Boston woulda won with Perkins...Hoenstly, though, my whole point was that we can sit here and play the "what if" game all day, but it's simply not worth it...
IS skill and ability all that matters? What about results?!!! 7 titles will put Kobe above MJ in terms of accomplishments? Fine, but then, is Kobe still chasing Russell? Cuz we both know, aside from Kobe's 81 point game, Mamba has nothing on Jordan individually, and will still be trailing him 3 playoff MVP's.
Plus, has Kobe had a GREAT finals yet? How many GREAT finals games has he had?
-
so if Kobe gets 4 consecutive Finals MVP to Jordan's 3, that's not another individual accolade where Kobe 1-upped Jordan? come on, now...some of the arguments are just RIDICULOUS.
-
As for this notion that Kobe hasn't had great final games...ha! lets start from the beginning. In 2000, Kobe got injured in Game 2 of the Finals vs. Indiana...he sat out Game 3 and Pacers took that game... the series was then 2-1 in favor of the Lakers, but there were two more games to go in Indiana. In Game 4, Shaq fouled out in the 4th and the game went to overtime...with the Pacers lookin to take control of the series by winning the game with Shaq out, Kobe took over and single-handedly won the game for the Lakers in OT with his clutch performance...AT THE AGE of 21! Lakers don't win that game, and they coulda very well lost the series....
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006140IND.html
How bout Game 2 of the '01 Finals? After Philadelphia stole the first game in overtime, Lakers were looking at going down 0-2 with 3 consecutive games to go in Philadelphia. Another classic 4th quarter performance, which coulda ultimately saved the Lakers. Again, Lakers don't win that game, and they coulda very well lost the series...Kobe was the game leader in points and minutes played for that game, and what age was he? twenty-fuckin-two.
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200106080LAL.html
Now the series is tied 1-1 with three games to go in Philadelphia...Game 3: Kobe played 48 minutes, Shaq again fouls out, and Kobe leads the Lakers in scoring for that game which gives the Lakers a 2-1 lead...Not great?:
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200106100PHI.html
Following game...an assist shy from a triple double:
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200106130PHI.html
This one vs. New Jersey is pretty whack too..
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200206090NJN.html
Game 1 of the 2009 Finals...Lakers set the tone against Orlando by showing dominance behind Kobe's game-leading 40 points, in which he more than doubled the point total of anyone else on the court, almost collecting a triple double in the process. I guess it's not great enough, though?
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200906040LAL.html
Clinching game of the '09 Finals, who led the game in scoring? and more blocks than Dwight Howard? Ooohweee, dominating BOTH ends...but there's nothing great in leading the winning game of a championship series in offensive AND defensive stats...
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200906140ORL.html
Game 1 of this years Finals...Who led the game in scoring? who set the tone? Yea, but there's nothing great about that....
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006030LAL.html
Game 3, with the series tied 1-1 and 3 games to go in Boston, who else but Kobe leads the game in offensive and defensive stats?
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006080BOS.html
Game 6, Lakers down 3-2, they lose this game, they go home...again, who else but Kobe is gunna lead the game in scoring?...and even in steals...and he even outrebounded everyone on the Celtics. At this point, Kobe was mentioned by analysts as a possible Finals MVP even if the Lakers lose! But the greatness is not there, is it?...LOL.
Box Score:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006150LAL.html
...and I'm not even gunna include Game 7 in the great category, even though Kobe got it done on the boards when his shot wasn't falling, grabbing more rebounds than Jordan EVER did in a Finals game...but that's just one more stat he has on Jordan.
Honestly, though, do you feel stupid yet for saying Kobe hasn't been great in the Finals? LOL
-
I know you aren't calling Kobe's game 7 performance from this year great? I mean, shooting 25% in the biggest game of the year? ALso, you point out games where Kobe led the game in scoring, so it must have been great...isn't that what he is supposed to do???
NIK, I never said Kobe hasn't had a good GAME in the finals, but has he had a GREAT finals series? NO. Does he have a top 10, even top 20 finals performance (1 game or series) of all time?
-
How was his Finals performance in 2006? lmfao.
-
How was his Finals performance in 2006? lmfao.
Word!
NIK even has a 10 for 29 game in there!
Yes, Kobe has had a few GREAT games in the finals, but, considering he's been in 7, where is his transcendant game like MJ and Magic had?
Fact: Kobe Bryant does NOT have a top 10 finals, or even a game in the top 10.
-
So, I had a 10-29 FG game in there...whats your fucking point? why do feeble minded basketball fans think shooting percentage is the only major factor that plays into how great a player played?...do you realize how many more important facets their are to the game than how well a player shot the ball? especially at this level, and ESPECIALLY in a defensive-oriented series, where shooting percentages are clearly gunna be lower, all around...thats not to take away from Kobe's great performance, dominating the game on the defensive end in the pivotal game, and shutting Rondo down when it was clear no one else could guard him...and still led the game in scoring, along with 2 steals and 3 blocks...the game goes way beyond shooting stats, and Kobe was clearly great in that Game 3...I'm sure if he were playing the Sonics or Jazz in the Finals, his numbers in the Finals would skyrocket, but that's clearly not the case...still can't hold that against Kobe and say he hasn't been great, because he led his team and did what it takes to win, especially in the last 2, and that's greatness. As for Game 7, he DID dominate the game on the defensive end and killed it on the glass, even breaking a record in the process...but I didn't even put that game on the list, so I dunno what you're complaining about. LOL.
-
The hardest question to ask yourself isn't How many ships will the heat win in 6 years.. It's what jersey should I get?! 3, 4, 6.... hmmm Imma go with 6 for six championships and 0 for Kobe and his dynasty being over.. solid