West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: rafsta on May 10, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
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Unlike the Bible, the Quran is not a collection of books or stories, but a collation of utterances supposed to have come from Allah through Mohammed. Consequently it is very repetitive - so much so that it can start to feel hypnotic after reading a lot at once.
The Quran begins by saying that we can all live together in peace, and sounds like universalism (all religions are one type thinking). However it very soon becomes apparent that this is not so. Islam is a very exclusive religion. Only muslims are accepted.
At the heart of Christianity is Jesus. Or put another way, Jesus is the heart of Christianity. The Quran does not say very much about him. Most of his life is skipped, and what is recorded is very much different to the Bible and reads like some-one wanted to deliberately minimise and downgrade his importance.
The Quran states that just minutes after being born Jesus made an eloquent speech in which he strongly iterates that he is a muslim.
This directly contradicts the biblical accounts, in which the birth of Jesus is heralded by others as the fulfilment of prophecy and he does not make any speeches.
The death of Jesus is not recorded in the Quran - it is not believed that he died. While this can appear to be an attempt to make him appear very holy, it is really about removing the central message of the gospel. It also fits with Mohammed's agenda of using arms and force. A prophet who was slain by the opposition was not a role model he wanted to put in front of people. He was looking for recruits who were willing to fight to achieve or defend his objectives.
There are a number of changes to biblical stories in the Quran. It reads like a type of plagiarism, in which characters and story outlines have been taken from elsewhere and then amended to suit the motives and designs of the author. An example of this is changing the story of Isaac and Ishmael. In the Quran it is Ishmael who becomes the chosen one, and thus those descended from him are the chosen people. The Jews are referred to as "the people of the book", and it is purported that they did not obey Allah - therefore they are not chosen and if they do not convert to Islam will suffer a dire eternal fate.
This leads to another interesting point. For while there are those who may find descriptions of hell in the Bible difficult, the descriptions of those who are "thrown face first" into the fire in the Quran are far worse. Christians and Jews are especially singled out in connection with this.
The story of Joseph is very altered. In the Quran he is not thrown into jail after being falsely accused of attempted rape as the Bible relates. The Quran has him immediately vindicated and all the women of the court apologise to him. Again Mohammed did not want a story in which a man appears denigrated or without victory at any time. The parallel theme of women being innately untrustworthy and irresponsible runs throughout the book. Women are both idolised as pillars of virtue on the one hand, and viewed as troublemakers who must not be trusted on the other. Thus the Quran states that a husband should beat his wife for "trouble-making". The Quran does not contain the women of faith found in the Bible. There are no Ruths, Esthers, Deborahs, or Marys of Magdala in Islam.
It is known that Mohammed married a much older widow, and that he had twelve wives. It is not difficult to see how his own predispositions are added into the Quran, so that a man may have more than one wife - the Qu'ran specifies he may have up to four wives. Or as a colleague said to me, "so it was O.K. for men to be lustful then".
My biggest question in reading the Quran was whether or not it supported jihad in the way we have seen it expressed through terrorism. I had heard leaders of nations, including the US, saying it does not. In fact, it does. There are passages which advance self-defence. There are also passages that advance offensive measures against anyone opposing Islam, which Mohammed was spreading through force and manipulation. Muslims are told to fight opponents of Islam "wherever they are". The demands on his followers were extreme. The Quran allows for two options in conflict - victory or death. Surrender is unacceptable, and is a sin against Allah. In other words, a man must fight on even if the mission is suicidal. A martyr will go to paradise. It isn't hard to see how this has been developed by terrorists in the modern day context.
http://allthings2all.blogspot.com/2004/09/why-i-read-quran.html
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Infinite, how can you worship a false God ? how can you study a book that a man created to help him wage war and helped him create dedicated soldiers ?
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more importantly, how can you support a book which condones violence ?
follow your own beliefs, not some book written by some dude.
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haha I already knew every word of that article, I just don't like arguing about this shit no more, you'll never see the end of it with Muslims.
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follow your own beliefs, not some book written by some dude.
thats a pretty bold statement coming from a Christian, maybe even too bold.
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follow your own beliefs, not some book written by some dude.
thats a pretty bold statement coming from a Christian, maybe even too bold.
i am not a practising christian. i was raised in a highly Catholic family, i was forced to go to church every Sunday until i hit 17.
i am a believer in God, i am a believer in Jesus, i respect the bible. But you dont see me quoting every second paragraph on a hip-hop forum. i follow my own rules, and i dont swear by the bible, i agree with alot of it, but even without it i would be the same person. thats the difference between me an Abdul.
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zZzZz
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This leads to another interesting point. For while there are those who may find descriptions of hell in the Bible difficult, the descriptions of those who are "thrown face first" into the fire in the Quran are far worse. Christians and Jews are especially singled out in connection with this.
The Noble Qu'ran instructs Muslims that closest to them are the Christians! The Qu'ran encourages Muslims to establish peaceful relationships with non-Muslims who do not act in aggression to Muslims. In the cases where Allah is condemning Christians or Jews he is condemning specifically the Christians and Jews who fight and commit transgressions against the Muslims. In Islam, Christianity and Judaism are legitimate religions, and Allah will not let their deeds go unaccounted.
Qu'ran: 3:19, 85) This is God's final message to humanity. All of God's prophets have come to this world, and all the scriptures have been delivered. The time has come to purify and consolidate all the messages delivered by God's prophets into one message, and to proclaim that henceforth, there is only one religion acceptable to God - "Submission"
(5:69, 2:62) Surely, those who believe who are Jewish, the Christians and the converts,
(1) believes in God
(2) and believes in the hereafter
(3) leads a righteous life
will recieve their recompense and reward and they have nothing to fear.
Ofcourse, there is no denying, Islam does allow Muslims permission to make Jihad under certain conditions....
"You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (8:60-61)
Self-defense involves oppression, aggression and tyranny; Islam tolerates the use of war in these cases.
"Permission (to fight) is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them. They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty."(22:39-40).
The story of Joseph is very altered. In the Quran he is not thrown into jail after being falsely accused of attempted rape as the Bible relates. The Quran has him immediately vindicated and all the women of the court apologise to him. Again Mohammed did not want a story in which a man appears denigrated or without victory at any time. The parallel theme of women being innately untrustworthy and irresponsible runs throughout the book. Women are both idolised as pillars of virtue on the one hand, and viewed as troublemakers who must not be trusted on the other.
Joseph (Yusuf) does go to prison! All the Prophets faced numerous trials!
12:33
Yusuf said: "O My Lord! The prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me".
12:35
Then it occurred to the men
After they had seen the Signs,
(That it was best)
To imprison him for a time
12:36
Now with him there came into the prison two young men."
the Qu'ran specifies he may have up to four wives. Or as a colleague said to me, "so it was O.K. for men to be lustful then".
You know what's funny is that Christian preacher Jerry Fallwell made the same argument in a debate with Ahmed Deedat. Then a month later he was arrested in a hotel room with about a dozen hookers! Islam is logical and practical and the life of a Muslim is one that can be lived without hypocrisy. A few Muslims do marry more than one woman, and it is accepted by their wives, and this is done in the open, not in secret. Yet a FEW MILLION CHRISTIANS COMMIT ADULTRY AND FORNICATION! BUT ALLAH IS WATCHFUL!
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This Captain character is a retard......
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This Captain character is a retard......
thanks buddy i try...
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This leads to another interesting point. For while there are those who may find descriptions of hell in the Bible difficult, the descriptions of those who are "thrown face first" into the fire in the Quran are far worse. Christians and Jews are especially singled out in connection with this.
The Noble Qu'ran instructs Muslims that closest to them are the Christians! The Qu'ran encourages Muslims to establish peaceful relationships with non-Muslims who do not act in aggression to Muslims. In the cases where Allah is condemning Christians or Jews he is condemning specifically the Christians and Jews who fight and commit transgressions against the Muslims. In Islam, Christianity and Judaism are legitimate religions, and Allah will not let their deeds go unaccounted.
Qu'ran: 3:19, 85) This is God's final message to humanity. All of God's prophets have come to this world, and all the scriptures have been delivered. The time has come to purify and consolidate all the messages delivered by God's prophets into one message, and to proclaim that henceforth, there is only one religion acceptable to God - "Submission"
(5:69, 2:62) Surely, those who believe who are Jewish, the Christians and the converts,
(1) believes in God
(2) and believes in the hereafter
(3) leads a righteous life
will recieve their recompense and reward and they have nothing to fear.
Ofcourse, there is no denying, Islam does allow Muslims permission to make Jihad under certain conditions....
"You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (8:60-61)
Self-defense involves oppression, aggression and tyranny; Islam tolerates the use of war in these cases.
so the religion supports 911...
"Permission (to fight) is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them. They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty."(22:39-40).
The story of Joseph is very altered. In the Quran he is not thrown into jail after being falsely accused of attempted rape as the Bible relates. The Quran has him immediately vindicated and all the women of the court apologise to him. Again Mohammed did not want a story in which a man appears denigrated or without victory at any time. The parallel theme of women being innately untrustworthy and irresponsible runs throughout the book. Women are both idolised as pillars of virtue on the one hand, and viewed as troublemakers who must not be trusted on the other.
Joseph (Yusuf) does go to prison! All the Prophets faced numerous trials!
12:33
Yusuf said: "O My Lord! The prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me".
12:35
Then it occurred to the men
After they had seen the Signs,
(That it was best)
To imprison him for a time
12:36
Now with him there came into the prison two young men."
this doesnt change the point that then the women of the jury then gave him a full apology, to further downplay women...
the Qu'ran specifies he may have up to four wives. Or as a colleague said to me, "so it was O.K. for men to be lustful then".
You know what's funny is that Christian preacher Jerry Fallwell made the same argument in a debate with Ahmed Deedat. Then a month later he was arrested in a hotel room with about a dozen hookers! Islam is logical and practical and the life of a Muslim is one that can be lived without hypocrisy. A few Muslims do marry more than one woman, and it is accepted by their wives, and this is done in the open, not in secret. Yet a FEW MILLION CHRISTIANS COMMIT ADULTRY AND FORNICATION! BUT ALLAH IS WATCHFUL!
Who gives a shit about Jerry Fallwell ? it was his choice to do it.... the point which you once again missed is that Islam supports adultery, because someone is a christian and commits adultery doesnt mean that the religion supports it, its up to the indivivual not to obey the law of God...
Seeing as i completely just went over your head i'll explain it in laymans terms... Mohammed had more than 4 wives, he was a sinner that was considered a prophet ? and not only that he said its ok to have 4 wives... so adultery is acceptable in islam, it was one of the 10 commandments, "thy shall not covet thy wife"...
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This Captain character is a retard......
thanks buddy i try...
no u dont. u actually think you have a point, when in actuality u dont. This is what classifies you as a retard
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This Captain character is a retard......
thanks buddy i try...
no u dont. u actually think you have a point, when in actuality u dont. This is what classifies you as a retard
i'll keep that in mind.
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the one point i felt was the one about how the quran uses the same stories from the bible/tora then changes them
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if it then goes to say its impossible to accomodate 4 wives why does it state it in the first place ?
it just allows for mis-interpretation and abuse.
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You cant judge Prophet Muhamad for having more than one wife because almost ALL of the Old testament prophets had MORE THAN ONE WIFE!
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i'm talkin about the new testament...
thats the whole reason why Jesus came, adultery, thiefs and bullshit was aplenty.
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Captain that was not my point. It is the fact that having more than one wife dosen't nessesarily exclude you from prophet status if it did then would have to throw out over half of the bible because many prophets had more than one wife. Even if Jesus bevieved in one wife, GOD has used polygamists in the past so MAYBE he wouldn't be opposed to using one again.
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where in the bible does it say the prophets had more than one wife ? i dont remember the prophets even having one wife...
and what is a polygamist ?
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Abraham is one of the most important prophets in the bible OT/NT and the Quran
In Genesis Chapt 16:3 Sarah abrahams wifey gives her Egyptain maidservent to Abraham to be his 2nd wifey.
The Reason why Abraham is so important in the bible and Quran is that Prophets, according to the bible and Quran, can only come through Abrahams family line.Genesis chapters 15-17
The hebrew Nation are issacs children from Abrahams union with sarah.
The arab Nation are ishmeals children from Abrahams union with Hagar.
Jesus is a descendant of issac which gives him prophet or messiah status by birthright.
although a covenant was made with the jews, if they failed to follow through with their end of the bargan, God still has to honor his promise to abraham by having a covanant with his descendants, which would be the Arabs by default. and prophet muhammad is a descendant of ishmeal. you dont have to believe me but you would be better of to study it for yourself instead of making blanket statements about religions. I my self am not of any religious faith in particular but I dont see one as better than the other because all prophets are different members of abrahams family anyways, and God promised abraham many nations and tribes through his name (Jew,Christian,Islam) so just follow the one that u believe the best way u can.
solomon had 700 wives
genesis 5:19 lemech 2 wives
genesis 29 Jacob has 2 sisters for wifeys, racheal and leah
there are more examples but not important.
polygamy is being married to more than one partner.
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Abraham is one of the most important prophets in the bible OT/NT and the Quran
In Genesis Chapt 16:3 Sarah abrahams wifey gives her Egyptain maidservent to Abraham to be his 2nd wifey.
The Reason why Abraham is so important in the bible and Quran is that Prophets, according to the bible and Quran, can only come through Abrahams family line.Genesis chapters 15-17
The hebrew Nation are issacs children from Abrahams union with sarah.
The arab Nation are ishmeals children from Abrahams union with Hagar.
Jesus is a descendant of issac which gives him prophet or messiah status by birthright.
although a covenant was made with the jews, if they failed to follow through with their end of the bargan, God still has to honor his promise to abraham by having a covanant with his descendants, which would be the Arabs by default. and prophet muhammad is a descendant of ishmeal. you dont have to believe me but you would be better of to study it for yourself instead of making blanket statements about religions. I my self am not of any religious faith in particular but I dont see one as better than the other because all prophets are different members of abrahams family anyways, and God promised abraham many nations and tribes through his name (Jew,Christian,Islam) so just follow the one that u believe the best way u can.
solomon had 700 wives
genesis 5:19 lemech 2 wives
genesis 29 Jacob has 2 sisters for wifeys, racheal and leah
there are more examples but not important.
polygamy is being married to more than one partner.
interestin stuff, yeh i realise i need to study it for myself.
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Jesus is a descendant of issac which gives him prophet or messiah status by birthright.
This one always gets me. Jesus was not a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, or David; Joseph was. The New Testament clearly states that Joseph was not the father of Jesus, merely the husband of Mary, but "they had no union until after she gave birth to a son. No one really ever explained Mary's family tree, but it really doesn't matter, because Jesus was born of the holy spirit as far as Christian's are concerned. And his stance on monogamy is quite clear; one woman and one man come together and become one being, unseparable by man. Divorce is a bit of a tricky one; in Mark it states that once you take the vows you stick to them no matter what and divorce is not acceptable by any means, however in Matthew it states that you can divorce if your spouse cheats on you. Some believe that this was added in Matthew years later by the church, and was never written by Matthew himself, while others believe that Matthew put it together himself based on various teachings of Jesus. Very few believe that Jesus himself said it, but who knows? The bottom line is don't cheat on your spouse. As for the whole polygamy thing; I try and use logic and figure that if Man A and Woman B become one being then that same Man A cannot become one being with another woman since he is already one being with another woman. If you disagree then so be it.
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Islam is logical and practical and the life of a Muslim is one that can be lived without hypocrisy.
once again, there's nothing Logical about religions
and why aren't you trying to have that kind of life without hypocrisy you hypocritical crazy ass cracker?
ALLAH IS WATCHING YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUOUUUOUUOOUOUOOUOUOUOOUUUUU!
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the very 1st chapter and very 1st verse of the new testament says "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."
If Jesus was not a descendant of Abraham then that means that GOD never fufilled His promise to Abraham through Isreal, and according to the new testament the Jews fell out of favor with GOD, so that would mean that the Muslims are right and God is using Ishmael's descendants to propragate His will.
This is not my view, but according to ur post this is what it would mean, Holy Spirit or no Holy Spirit.
God does not lie and did not lie to abraham.
Matthew 19: 5 is NOT A COMMANDMENT against multiple wives. It is a commandment against divorce, if you take it out of context u could reason that it means one wife, but I doubt that thats what Jesus was saying at that time. So it still does not bar the possibility of Muhammads Prophethood.
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the very 1st chapter and very 1st verse of the new testament says "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."
If Jesus was not a descendant of Abraham then that means that GOD never fufilled His promise to Abraham through Isreal, and according to the new testament the Jews fell out of favor with GOD, so that would mean that the Muslims are right and God is using Ishmael's descendants to propragate His will.
This is not my view, but according to ur post this is what it would mean, Holy Spirit or no Holy Spirit.
God does not lie and did not lie to abraham.
Matthew 19: 5 is NOT A COMMANDMENT against multiple wives. It is a commandment against divorce, if you take it out of context u could reason that it means one wife, but I doubt that thats what Jesus was saying at that time. So it still does not bar the possibility of Muhammads Prophethood.
God may not lie, but Moses and other prophets may have lied, gotten it wrong, or added there own views. Jesus himself said Moses would allow certain things because he felt the people weren't ready for some truths. How can Jesus be the son of God and the Son of Joseph? You don't have to answer that, I'll let Jesus answer it for you;
(From Matthew 22)
41)While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42)"What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?"
"The son of David," they replied.
43)He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
44)" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet."
45)If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
46)No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
Since there wasn't a Pharisee in that land that could properly refute Jesus's claims, I doubt you can.
As for my thoughts on polygamy; like I said before I'm just ttrying to use logic to interpret that Jesus didn't consider it possible. If when you marry you and your wife become one being, then how can you become another being with another woman. How can one man be two beings? I just don't get it. This doesn't prove that Jesus was against it. It's just my perspective. The only real problem I have with polygamy is the sexism. Why is it that in some muslim and mormon areas it is okay for a man to have multiple wives, but unheard of for a woman to have multiple husbands?
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^^^ youre a genius man :sign_werd:
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If the Moses and the other prophets may have lied, gotten it wrong, or added their own views, then that means that THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW GOD, beacause both Jesus, and God of the old testament used prophets or disciples (imperfect humans) to give us a glimpse into the nature of God.
So Quoting verses is irrelevant, because u know, the prophets might have lied again.
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If the Moses and the other prophets may have lied, gotten it wrong, or added their own views, then that means that THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW GOD, beacause both Jesus, and God of the old testament used prophets or disciples (imperfect humans) to give us a glimpse into the nature of God.
So Quoting verses is irrelevant, because u know, the prophets might have lied again.
The difference is that the Gospels use quotes from Jesus, while the Torah and other books of the Old Testament use the words of the prophets. Now the letters of Paul on the other hand I do believe contain things Jesus never would have said. Moses was a leader, he had to lead his people and keep them in line. Matthew Mark, Luke, and John were merely followers who wanted to spread the good word. The fact that all 4 books are similar depite being written at different places and times shows me enough to make me believe they weren't lying.
And furthermore whether the quote I used was a lie or not irrelevant because you still can't answer the question; if David calls the Messiah Lord how can it be his son? Does it make sense for a father to bow down to his son?
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First off HOMEBOY I didn't say that I could not answer Ur Question Because IT IS WHAT IT IS : If Jesus is not of the blood of Abraham he aint the messiah Point Blank.
Jesus has to be the son of Abraham to fufill the prophesy the GOD promised to Abraham.
Jesus is The SON OF MAN (physically Abraham) and THE SON OF GOD (spiritually GOD)
And ur theory on the Apostles and the gospels aint right and exact either because Luke and if I not mistaken Mark NEVER EVEN SEEN JESUS they was some of Pauls disciples i know for a fact that Luke was a Doctor and Jesus didn't kick it with the upper class folks. so u cant say that the OT is less factual than the NT because its all heresay anyway. The New testament was not put together until the council of nice in the year 325a.d.
300 YEARS AFTER THE APOSTLES WAS DEAD, & all of the contradicting Gospels were burned. (thats why they all say the same thing)
DONT BELIEVE ME HOMIE ITS AN ACTUAL FACTUAL HISTORICAL FACT! CHECK IT OUT FOR YOUR OWN SELF!
In all of my post I NEVER took sides because its all GOOD with GOD on MINES, but if U don't know NOTHING except what youve been BRAINWASHED with don't dis Muslims for the same thing. THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. Abraham is the Key ALL 3 of the great monotheistic religions JEWS, CHRISTIAN,AND MUSLIMS should be able to work together as ONE under GOD.
I am sure that if someone is born in the middle east and is a born of another religion as long as they follow their laws TRUTHFULLY GOD will accept them. I am NOT their judge AND NEITHER ARE YOU.
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First off HOMEBOY I didn't say that I could not answer Ur Question Because IT IS WHAT IT IS : If Jesus is not of the blood of Abraham he aint the messiah Point Blank.
Jesus has to be the son of Abraham to fufill the prophesy the GOD promised to Abraham.
Jesus is The SON OF MAN (physically Abraham) and THE SON OF GOD (spiritually GOD)
And ur theory on the Apostles and the gospels aint right and exact either because Luke and if I not mistaken Mark NEVER EVEN SEEN JESUS they was some of Pauls disciples i know for a fact that Luke was a Doctor and Jesus didn't kick it with the upper class folks. so u cant say that the OT is less factual than the NT because its all heresay anyway. The New testament was not put together until the council of nice in the year 325a.d.
300 YEARS AFTER THE APOSTLES WAS DEAD, & all of the contradicting Gospels were burned. (thats why they all say the same thing)
DONT BELIEVE ME HOMIE ITS AN ACTUAL FACTUAL HISTORICAL FACT! CHECK IT OUT FOR YOUR OWN SELF!
In all of my post I NEVER took sides because its all GOOD with GOD on MINES, but if U don't know NOTHING except what youve been BRAINWASHED with don't dis Muslims for the same thing. THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. Abraham is the Key ALL 3 of the great monotheistic religions JEWS, CHRISTIAN,AND MUSLIMS should be able to work together as ONE under GOD.
I am sure that if someone is born in the middle east and is a born of another religion as long as they follow their laws TRUTHFULLY GOD will accept them. I am NOT their judge AND NEITHER ARE YOU.
1) The way I see it the loophole is that because Jesus was part of a human family headed by a direct descendant of Abraham. It's obvious in the scriptures that Jesus was not born of Joseph's DNA. If you belive otherwise then so be it.
2) I didn't quote Luke, or Mark for that matter. I quoted Matthew. Furthermore let me tell you how I see it; I read the bible, bot hnew and old and I look for things that don't seem right, like being able to stone your wife, or calling gays evil, and see that as being added by the prophets or apostles to appease the public and maintain control. When I read the gospels I don't see those things. Name me one thing that Jesus said according to the quotes that seems immoral or just plain stupid and I'll back off.
3) Yes the bible was put together after 300 AD, but that doesn't mean it's been changed so much. Many of the apostles died well before they had a chance to write the gospel down, like Peter who's Gospel would have easily been the most important historically. Phillip's is incomplete in the sense there are too many holes in it, meaning no one can properly read it. There may have been a Gospel of Mary Magdelene, which I have no problem accepting, but for obvious reasons I could see why Rome in 300 AD wouldn't use a book written by a woman. I don't think any of them were burned, probably just not added in, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're all sitting in the Vatican as we speak. Keep in mind 99% of Christians couldn't write their own names, much less read Greek. Also, please don't state that the rest of the Gospels contradicted the 4 that were used as a fact, because in order to call it one you'd have to actually read those gospels and I'm sure you haven't.
4) Please actually read my posts as they are and don't add in what you think I'm implying. I never in this thread put down any Muslims or implied that any of them were going to hell. I am hardly a brainwashed Christian. I don't go to church for philosophical reasons and I take everything I read in the Bible with a grain of salt. The only reason I don't believe the 4 Gospels have been altered in their message is because I don't see anything morally wrong in them, and if the Vatican were to have changed them why wouldn't they have changed them more? Why wouldn't they quote Jesus as saying it's not okay to be gay, or "if you go to War in my name and die you go straight to Heaven"? Couldn't they just have added all this stuff in when they first made the Bible? Why keep a bible with 4 books that the church itself blatantly contradicts everyday?
5) As for my thoughts on heaven and hell philosophically; I admit to not actually knowing anything, just like everyone else doesn't "know" anything. I strongly believe in the Trinity and in God being accessible through 3 entities for a very simple reason; I don't believe anyone is going to hell because of the way they worship or believe. I believe in the father, the son, and the holy spirit as ways of getting into heaven. Whether you believe in, God and God alone, God through Jesus, or the greater good by listening to your heart (the holy spirit). As stated many times in every scripture there is only one God, and I don't dispute that. I just feel you can get to God through him, his son, or his gift to mankind. In short I don't think only Christians go to heaven.
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First off HOMEBOY I didn't say that I could not answer Ur Question Because IT IS WHAT IT IS : If Jesus is not of the blood of Abraham he aint the messiah Point Blank.
Jesus has to be the son of Abraham to fufill the prophesy the GOD promised to Abraham.
Jesus is The SON OF MAN (physically Abraham) and THE SON OF GOD (spiritually GOD)
And ur theory on the Apostles and the gospels aint right and exact either because Luke and if I not mistaken Mark NEVER EVEN SEEN JESUS they was some of Pauls disciples i know for a fact that Luke was a Doctor and Jesus didn't kick it with the upper class folks. so u cant say that the OT is less factual than the NT because its all heresay anyway. The New testament was not put together until the council of nice in the year 325a.d.
300 YEARS AFTER THE APOSTLES WAS DEAD, & all of the contradicting Gospels were burned. (thats why they all say the same thing)
DONT BELIEVE ME HOMIE ITS AN ACTUAL FACTUAL HISTORICAL FACT! CHECK IT OUT FOR YOUR OWN SELF!
In all of my post I NEVER took sides because its all GOOD with GOD on MINES, but if U don't know NOTHING except what youve been BRAINWASHED with don't dis Muslims for the same thing. THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. Abraham is the Key ALL 3 of the great monotheistic religions JEWS, CHRISTIAN,AND MUSLIMS should be able to work together as ONE under GOD.
I am sure that if someone is born in the middle east and is a born of another religion as long as they follow their laws TRUTHFULLY GOD will accept them. I am NOT their judge AND NEITHER ARE YOU.
man shallow wasnt bagging the muslims, it was me :-[
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First off HOMEBOY I didn't say that I could not answer Ur Question Because IT IS WHAT IT IS : If Jesus is not of the blood of Abraham he aint the messiah Point Blank.
Jesus has to be the son of Abraham to fufill the prophesy the GOD promised to Abraham.
Jesus is The SON OF MAN (physically Abraham) and THE SON OF GOD (spiritually GOD)
And ur theory on the Apostles and the gospels aint right and exact either because Luke and if I not mistaken Mark NEVER EVEN SEEN JESUS they was some of Pauls disciples i know for a fact that Luke was a Doctor and Jesus didn't kick it with the upper class folks. so u cant say that the OT is less factual than the NT because its all heresay anyway. The New testament was not put together until the council of nice in the year 325a.d.
300 YEARS AFTER THE APOSTLES WAS DEAD, & all of the contradicting Gospels were burned. (thats why they all say the same thing)
DONT BELIEVE ME HOMIE ITS AN ACTUAL FACTUAL HISTORICAL FACT! CHECK IT OUT FOR YOUR OWN SELF!
In all of my post I NEVER took sides because its all GOOD with GOD on MINES, but if U don't know NOTHING except what youve been BRAINWASHED with don't dis Muslims for the same thing. THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT. Abraham is the Key ALL 3 of the great monotheistic religions JEWS, CHRISTIAN,AND MUSLIMS should be able to work together as ONE under GOD.
I am sure that if someone is born in the middle east and is a born of another religion as long as they follow their laws TRUTHFULLY GOD will accept them. I am NOT their judge AND NEITHER ARE YOU.
1) The way I see it the loophole is that because Jesus was part of a human family headed by a direct descendant of Abraham. It's obvious in the scriptures that Jesus was not born of Joseph's DNA. If you belive otherwise then so be it.
2) I didn't quote Luke, or Mark for that matter. I quoted Matthew. Furthermore let me tell you how I see it; I read the bible, bot hnew and old and I look for things that don't seem right, like being able to stone your wife, or calling gays evil, and see that as being added by the prophets or apostles to appease the public and maintain control. When I read the gospels I don't see those things. Name me one thing that Jesus said according to the quotes that seems immoral or just plain stupid and I'll back off.
3) Yes the bible was put together after 300 AD, but that doesn't mean it's been changed so much. Many of the apostles died well before they had a chance to write the gospel down, like Peter who's Gospel would have easily been the most important historically. Phillip's is incomplete in the sense there are too many holes in it, meaning no one can properly read it. There may have been a Gospel of Mary Magdelene, which I have no problem accepting, but for obvious reasons I could see why Rome in 300 AD wouldn't use a book written by a woman. I don't think any of them were burned, probably just not added in, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're all sitting in the Vatican as we speak. Keep in mind 99% of Christians couldn't write their own names, much less read Greek. Also, please don't state that the rest of the Gospels contradicted the 4 that were used as a fact, because in order to call it one you'd have to actually read those gospels and I'm sure you haven't.
4) Please actually read my posts as they are and don't add in what you think I'm implying. I never in this thread put down any Muslims or implied that any of them were going to hell. I am hardly a brainwashed Christian. I don't go to church for philosophical reasons and I take everything I read in the Bible with a grain of salt. The only reason I don't believe the 4 Gospels have been altered in their message is because I don't see anything morally wrong in them, and if the Vatican were to have changed them why wouldn't they have changed them more? Why wouldn't they quote Jesus as saying it's not okay to be gay, or "if you go to War in my name and die you go straight to Heaven"? Couldn't they just have added all this stuff in when they first made the Bible? Why keep a bible with 4 books that the church itself blatantly contradicts everyday?
5) As for my thoughts on heaven and hell philosophically; I admit to not actually knowing anything, just like everyone else doesn't "know" anything. I strongly believe in the Trinity and in God being accessible through 3 entities for a very simple reason; I don't believe anyone is going to hell because of the way they worship or believe. I believe in the father, the son, and the holy spirit as ways of getting into heaven. Whether you believe in, God and God alone, God through Jesus, or the greater good by listening to your heart (the holy spirit). As stated many times in every scripture there is only one God, and I don't dispute that. I just feel you can get to God through him, his son, or his gift to mankind. In short I don't think only Christians go to heaven.
Its all good with u Brother Shallow, I just dont believe every thing in the bible or any book for that matter, but I do believe in one GOD, and that most likely HE wouldn't want us fighting or killing in HIS NAME.
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I believe in God, but fuck religious freak assholes, god damn hypocrit's
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I believe in God, but fuck religious freak assholes, god damn hypocrit's
Seriously, why the fuck cant we get past this religion bullshit and just be good people. All that shit happened thousands of years ago and no, no one can prove that any of that shit was true. And everyone is still fighting over who is right. Fuck whose right, be good people and thats it.