West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: King Tech Quadafi on March 14, 2006, 02:07:34 PM
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Three years on from the invasion of Iraq, how Blair and Bush got us into this mess matters as much as how we get out of it
Madeleine Bunting
Monday March 13, 2006
The Guardian
By the time you get to bed tonight, more will have died brutal bloody deaths in Iraq. The toll in the two weeks after the destruction of the Samarra mosque was 500, which averages 35 people a day - men, women and children. The explosions and the deaths have become so routine, they barely register with public opinion any more. Occasionally they make the television news and we flinch with horror from the blood and brutality. This is a conflict unlike any other, where the killers kill themselves as they kill.
The words of Zalmay Khalilzad, the US envoy to Iraq, were so chilling last week because they gave voice to a growing fear. He warned that "we have opened a Pandora's box" that "would make Taliban Afghanistan look like child's play". He was referring to the nightmare scenarios of civil war provoking wider regional conflict drawing in Iran, Turkey and Syria. Afghanistan's violence is on a smaller scale but still vicious. Last year 1,400 Afghans were killed in the bloodiest year since 2001.
The choice of targets is particularly cruel - teachers and schools have been attacked and intimidated, along with administration officials. The introduction of suicide bombings indicates new outside support, which prompted the gloomy recent assessment to Congress by the director of the Defence Intelligence Agency that attacks are likely to increase. The war on terror has failed - it has been the most catastrophic blunder in half a century of British and American foreign policy. Ill-conceived and spectacularly badly implemented, it was redolent of an old-fashioned understanding of conflict and quaint faith in superior military technology.
It has had precisely the opposite impact from that allegedly intended, by significantly increasing the threat of terrorism while alienating large sections of Muslim opinion across the globe. Yet the politicians who made the decisions, who lied, and ignored and manipulated expert opinion are still in power and still uttering the same meaningless platitudes. Take Tony Blair at prime minister's questions last week, in which he declared he was proud to have helped remove the Taliban and that he would have thought "anyone, whatever their beliefs or faith, would stand up for democracy against terrorism". George Bush in Bagram for lunch this month, declared: "It is possible to replace tyrants with a free society."
Their make-believe fantasies are a world away from the garrison democracy increasingly suborned by the warlords they've installed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bush's "free society" and Blair's democracy is, in reality, the most efficient narco-economy in the world. As you read, the new shoots of opium poppies are being nurtured by the spring sunshine over 320,000 acres, promising a bumper crop. Ninety per cent of Europe's heroin now comes from Afghanistan. These two world leaders have so prostituted words such as democracy and freedom that they have lost all meaning.
All of this should be part of the vigorous debate required this week in the run-up to the third anniversary of the invasion of Iraq on March 19. But there's a real danger it won't happen in the UK: the angry are hoarse with outraged indignation, the confused are numbed by the bloodshed. Meanwhile, the sirens of the status quo, who have been insisting we "move on" ever since Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled, now claim no one is interested any more: Iraq is boring, the debate is exhausted. They declare that the only question worth asking is not how we got into such a mess but how we get out of it.
This last is a particularly insidious piece of political management. By deleting the past, it presents the conflict in Iraq as the sole creation of Iraqis, fighting sectarian feuds among themselves. It absolves the US and the UK of responsibility for the vacuum of political authority in the country, while neatly casting Iraqis as mad irrationalists - tribal, sectarian, backward or "ice men" as William Buckley, the renown American neocon put it. The aim is to circumscribe the debate to one just for an elite of Iraq experts - those who can talk knowledgeably about which bits of the Iraqi security forces the Badr and the Mahdi militias have infiltrated and which clerics are backing which factions in the internecine Baghdad politics. But the question that it is vital to persist in asking - as the picture keeps shifting - is how we ever got into Iraq.
There have been some answers over the past three years. We have seen, bit by bit, a picture of how a powerful coterie around the executive can bypass much of the machinery of government - intelligence, and diplomatic and military expertise. That's been a chilling revelation of how executive power in Britain and America can manipulate the system. But what is still lacking is a convincing explanation for the hubris that was at the heart of the Iraqi and Afghan invasions. So much of the rhetoric about both conjured up a dolls' house view of nationbuilding: the people, the furniture, the decor could be rearranged at will. The "regional redesign" of which the pro-war advocates talked sounded much like applying the principles of a house makeover to countries.
This callow arrogance about the political cultures of other countries, more than any other issue, prompted my opposition to both wars. Such arrogance could only be extremely dangerous - as it has been proved by the atrocities of Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo - and completely counterproductive in combating terrorism. The hubris and naivety are the subject of inquiry in the US by prominent neoconservative former advocates of the war on terror. In his piece, "What I got wrong about the war", last week for Time, Andrew Sullivan blamed the US for narcissism about the "inevitability of democratic change and its ease", criticising the naivety of the government's approach to complex, tribal, sectarian cultures.
Francis Fukuyama's new book admits the error of the assumption that "democracy was the default condition to which societies reverted once coercive regime change occurred". As we gain distance on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, America's waning enthusiasm for nation-building only strengthens the impression that the neocons were naive idealists manipulated to window-dress a much simpler and more brutal post-9/11 imperative: Afghanistan and Iraq offered opportunities for revenge and for spectacles of US power designed to assuage the wounded pride of the American people. The wars have not made the world a safer or better place because that was not their aim.
The neoconservatives' disillusionment and honest acknowledgement of it, has proved rare on this side of the Atlantic. The UK commentariat fought its own guerrilla war over Iraq. The military victories prompted choruses of "told you so" to those who opposed the war. Three years on, there's been one apology (David Aaronovitch), but no explanation in reply to Matthew Parris's call for the "armchair warriors of Fleet Street" to account for themselves in providing Bush and Blair's venture with intellectual cover. One can understand the eagerness to topple Saddam might have blinded some into backing a recklessly foolish war. But one can't understand the lack of honesty to acknowledge what a terrible mistake that has proved to be. We're waiting to hear.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1729399,00.html
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they'll never admit it though..
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oh not them
just tha faggot ass cock suckers on this forum
i want em all lined up to suck my dick and apologize and acknowledge the real
yall know who u are...whose gonna be the first to be a man?
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. One can understand the eagerness to topple Saddam might have blinded some into backing a recklessly foolish war. But one can't understand the lack of honesty to acknowledge what a terrible mistake that has proved to be. We're waiting to hear.
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You mean people in here were actually championing a war? jesus and i thought this forum had more sense than that
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I'm glad that when all my conservative allies were in favour of this war I stayed in opposition. Guess I was right eh?
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^ yea but u were also a muslim.
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lol!!!!!
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I don't know if that's accurate to my opposition, I go to school with a Muslim that still supports the war, one of the MPs in my party was a Muslim who supported the war etc....
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^ well i was making the point that people change, like back wen the war started i was clueless about politics, im still pretty clueless, but now i have a lot more knowledge than before
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^ well i was making the point that people change, like back wen the war started i was clueless about politics, im still pretty clueless, but now i have a lot more knowledge than before
I understand what you mean.
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I will admit that I was wrong for thinking that Arabs could grasp things such as freedom, democracy, equality, tolerance, etc. Iraq has proven that they cannot and for that I apologize.
I guess we all know now that only a brutal, ruthless dictator like Sadaam Hussein can keep those animals in check.
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^ lol
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I will admit that I was wrong for thinking that Arabs could grasp things such as freedom, democracy, equality, tolerance, etc. Iraq has proven that they cannot and for that I apologize.
I guess we all know now that only a brutal, ruthless dictator like Sadaam Hussein can keep those animals in check.
so wat ur army thought they gona have an easy ride
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Well maybe the people just don't want democracy. I didn't know that was a requirement for all sovereign nations.
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I will admit that I was wrong for thinking that Arabs could grasp things such as freedom, democracy, equality, tolerance, etc. Iraq has proven that they cannot and for that I apologize.
I guess we all know now that only a brutal, ruthless dictator like Sadaam Hussein can keep those animals in check.
It ain't about none of those things, all it boils down to is the Iraqi people don't want America subjugating them, exploiting their resources, and occupying their land.
What your saying is you think America has the right to go half way across the world and fight a war with a country that never attacked them, but the Iraqi people don't even have the right to defend their own land. That only reveals you to be afacist, racist, prejudice, white supremist and on top of all that you claim to be Christian.
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What your saying is you think America has the right to go half way across the world and fight a war with a country that never attacked them, but the Iraqi people don't even have the right to defend their own land. That only reveals you to be afacist, racist, prejudice, white supremist and on top of all that you claim to be Christian.
I am talking about the violence against fellow Iraqis, not American troops. The fighting between Shiites and Sunnis, the attacks against Christians, attacks against police, etc. The country is on the brink of a civil war for God's sake because they want to kill anyone who is different.
Clearly, Iraqis are incapable of living in a democracy with equal rights for all, freedoms, etc. They are savages.
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Clearly, Iraqis are incapable of living in a democracy with equal rights for all, freedoms, etc. They are savages.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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What your saying is you think America has the right to go half way across the world and fight a war with a country that never attacked them, but the Iraqi people don't even have the right to defend their own land. That only reveals you to be afacist, racist, prejudice, white supremist and on top of all that you claim to be Christian.
I am talking about the violence against fellow Iraqis, not American troops. The fighting between Shiites and Sunnis, the attacks against Christians, attacks against police, etc. The country is on the brink of a civil war for God's sake because they want to kill anyone who is different.
Clearly, Iraqis are incapable of living in a democracy with equal rights for all, freedoms, etc. They are savages.
Yes it has to do with their nationality... the borders a person lives within defines what that person is capable or incapable of doing.
Anyways, if you want to correlate violence with being a savage, then Americans are the biggest savages of them all... just look at the crime rates here, and let's not forget the church burnings by racist white faggots (like yourself) who are incapable of living in a democracy with equal rights for all.