West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on February 27, 2008, 11:12:12 AM
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Listen Here (http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/LOSANGELES-CA/KLAC-AM/080225%20Phil%20Jackson.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=LOSANGELES-CA&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=727&STATION_ID=KLAC-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Lakers&PCAST_CAT=Arts/_Entertainment&PCAST_TITLE=KLAC-AM_Podcast)
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results say otherwise (and besides, whats he supposd to say?)
especially since Kobe always played 2nd horse to Shaq
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^^What an unexpected response from Hack Wilson. ::)
Since you're the expert on this, what do results say? My results say that you're a major Laker hater. Good job.
No Kobe=No rings.
No Shaq=No rings.
No Jordan=No rings.
No Pippen=No rings.
Now say something worthwhile.
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results say otherwise (and besides, whats he supposd to say?)
especially since Kobe always played 2nd horse to Shaq
Gotta agree. Phil's thing is he is an expert motivator and knows all the right things to say to get what he wants out of his players. Jordan was clearly the better player, so if he didnt have superior skills, then what is it that made him better? I don't think anybody could honestly say that Jordan was a superior athlete to Bryant. Its tough to measure "will to win" but I'm sure Kobe wants to win every bit as much as Jordan did, so its probably not that. Kobe has better size than Jordan, so that cant be what made Jordan better. So if Kobe has
-"better basketball skills than Jordan" (according to Phil)
-as good or better athleticism
-just as much of a will to win
-superior size
then what made Jordan the better player? (Jordan being the better player is not debatable.)
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results say otherwise (and besides, whats he supposd to say?)
especially since Kobe always played 2nd horse to Shaq
Gotta agree. Phil's thing is he is an expert motivator and knows all the right things to say to get what he wants out of his players. Jordan was clearly the better player, so if he didnt have superior skills, then what is it that made him better? I don't think anybody could honestly say that Jordan was a superior athlete to Bryant. Its tough to measure "will to win" but I'm sure Kobe wants to win every bit as much as Jordan did, so its probably not that. Kobe has better size than Jordan, so that cant be what made Jordan better. So if Kobe has
-"better basketball skills than Jordan" (according to Phil)
-as good or better athleticism
-just as much of a will to win
-superior size
then what made Jordan the better player? (Jordan being the better player is not debatable.)
Jordan wasn't the better individual talent, he just had a stronger resume, because (from 1990 all the way to 1998) his team was built to win and he had the perfect complimentary players. Put Kobe in Jordan's shoes, and the Bulls woulda won 8 straight (considering Kobe wouldn't have retired in '94, like Jordan did). Based on the way both players were marketed, you would think Jordan was clearly the better talent, but that's simply not the case. Kobe still has a gang of time to collect more rings and end his career as the undisputed GOAT, though, so I'm not trippin...PeACe
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Okay how is he wrong? Kobe has more range, an unlimited arsenal of moves, and more intensity. Wanna stop Jordan? Force him to take 3s. Keep Kobe out of the paint and he'll knock down long range js from anywhere. All Kobe needs is an MVP and another ring or 2 and this debate will be too close for the haters to feel comfortable.
PS: Didn't Tex Winter just say Kobe has better leadership skills than Jordan?
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^^What an unexpected response from Hack Wilson. ::)
Since you're the expert on this, what do results say? My results say that you're a major Laker hater. Good job.
No Kobe=No rings.
No Shaq=No rings.
No Jordan=No rings.
No Pippen=No rings.
Now say something worthwhile.
michael jordan = 6 rings as the teams best player
shaq = 3 rings as his teams best player
kobe = zero
Kobe was the best player on the team that lost to Detroit though, he can take satisfaction in that right?
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If Phil means That Kobe is easier To Coach Maybe..
The "Zen Master" prob means Kobe at This stage has a more Advanced
All Around game Than Michael Did in His Early 20's. I'd agree 100%
But Michael Jordan in His Late 20's/30's Was What Kobe is becoming Now.
The Complete Package.
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Okay how is he wrong? Kobe has more range, an unlimited arsenal of moves, and more intensity. Wanna stop Jordan? Force him to take 3s. Keep Kobe out of the paint and he'll knock down long range js from anywhere. All Kobe needs is an MVP and another ring or 2 and this debate will be too close for the haters to feel comfortable.
PS: Didn't Tex Winter just say Kobe has better leadership skills than Jordan?
how soon they forget...
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^^What an unexpected response from Hack Wilson. ::)
Since you're the expert on this, what do results say? My results say that you're a major Laker hater. Good job.
No Kobe=No rings.
No Shaq=No rings.
No Jordan=No rings.
No Pippen=No rings.
Now say something worthwhile.
michael jordan = 6 rings as the teams best player
shaq = 3 rings as his teams best player
kobe = zero
Kobe was the best player on the team that lost to Detroit though, he can take satisfaction in that right?
Wrong...Kobe was arguably the better player by the time the '01 and '02 run came along.
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^^What an unexpected response from Hack Wilson. ::)
Since you're the expert on this, what do results say? My results say that you're a major Laker hater. Good job.
No Kobe=No rings.
No Shaq=No rings.
No Jordan=No rings.
No Pippen=No rings.
Now say something worthwhile.
michael jordan = 6 rings as the teams best player
shaq = 3 rings as his teams best player
kobe = zero
Kobe was the best player on the team that lost to Detroit though, he can take satisfaction in that right?
Wrong...Kobe was arguably the better player by the time the '01 and '02 run came along.
2000-01 regular season / playoffs
shaq 28.7 ppg 12.7 rpg 2.8 bpg / 30.4 15.4 2.4
kobe 28.5 ppg 5.9 rpg 5.0 apg / 29.4 7.3 6.1
2001=02 regualr season / playoffs
shaq 27.2 ppg 10.7 rpg 2.0 bpg / 28.5 12.6 2.5
kobe 25.2 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.5 apg / 26.6 5.8 4.6
2002-03 regular season / playoffs
shaq 27.5 ppg 11.1 rpg 2.4 bpg / 27.0 14.8 2.8
kobe 30.0 ppg 6.9 rpg 5.9 apg / 32.1 5.1 5.2
Shaq was still dominating, his playoff production didn't go down until 2003-04.
now look, i respect Kobe and even will admit that he's the best talent in the game, and he's better than Lebron (at this point).
but Kobe is not Michael Jordan as a complete player and probably never will be. It will take building his own dyansty to do that. He's having a great year and the LAkers are playing amazing this year, but I say San Antonio is the best until sent home in the summer.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Yeah, but as the dudes coach currently, he's not gonna down Kobe in anyway. He's gonna build him up.
Jordan was and probably always will be better than Kobe in everyway. Jordan was the dominating player on his team. He didn't need another dominating player on his team to win.
Rookie Season 84-85 (Rookie of the Year):
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
38.3 .515 6.5 5.9 2.4 0.8 28.2
First MVP Season 87-88 (MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, All NBA 1st Team, All NBA Defensive Team)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
40.4 .535 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 35.0
5th MVP Season 97-98 (All Defensive, All NBA, AND his 6th Finals MVP. 5 MVP Seasons in 9 Seasons of Play, shit, barely even 8 1/4 seasons).
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
38.8 .465 5.8 3.5 1.7 0.5 28.7
Kobe 00-01 (All Defensive 2nd and All NBA 2nd)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
40.9 .464 5.9 5.0 1.7 0.6 28.5
Kobe 05-06 (All Defensive 1st and All NBA 1st)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
41.0 .450 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 35.4
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Phil Jackson, Does it Again.
The Zen Master Makes Them Speak....
Bottomline Different Players, Vs. A Different Era.
THo IMO Jordan Was An Era ahead of His.
MJ Was Built To Play in Today's NBA.
And His Play Spawned A Kobe.
(Just Like A Dr. J Spawed A ....ect)
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
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^^What an unexpected response from Hack Wilson. ::)
Since you're the expert on this, what do results say? My results say that you're a major Laker hater. Good job.
No Kobe=No rings.
No Shaq=No rings.
No Jordan=No rings.
No Pippen=No rings.
Now say something worthwhile.
michael jordan = 6 rings as the teams best player
shaq = 3 rings as his teams best player
kobe = zero
Kobe was the best player on the team that lost to Detroit though, he can take satisfaction in that right?
Wrong...Kobe was arguably the better player by the time the '01 and '02 run came along.
2000-01 regular season / playoffs
shaq 28.7 ppg 12.7 rpg 2.8 bpg / 30.4 15.4 2.4
kobe 28.5 ppg 5.9 rpg 5.0 apg / 29.4 7.3 6.1
2001=02 regualr season / playoffs
shaq 27.2 ppg 10.7 rpg 2.0 bpg / 28.5 12.6 2.5
kobe 25.2 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.5 apg / 26.6 5.8 4.6
2002-03 regular season / playoffs
shaq 27.5 ppg 11.1 rpg 2.4 bpg / 27.0 14.8 2.8
kobe 30.0 ppg 6.9 rpg 5.9 apg / 32.1 5.1 5.2
Shaq was still dominating, his playoff production didn't go down until 2003-04.
now look, i respect Kobe and even will admit that he's the best talent in the game, and he's better than Lebron (at this point).
but Kobe is not Michael Jordan as a complete player and probably never will be. It will take building his own dyansty to do that. He's having a great year and the LAkers are playing amazing this year, but I say San Antonio is the best until sent home in the summer.
The fact that Shaq demanded more touches doesn't mean he was the best player on those teams. It's arguable, but still, Jordan didn't even win a ring until he was Kobe's current age...
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
And Kobe somehow doesn't?...LOL.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Yeah, but as the dudes coach currently, he's not gonna down Kobe in anyway. He's gonna build him up.
Jordan was and probably always will be better than Kobe in everyway. Jordan was the dominating player on his team. He didn't need another dominating player on his team to win.
Rookie Season 84-85 (Rookie of the Year):
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
38.3 .515 6.5 5.9 2.4 0.8 28.2
First MVP Season 87-88 (MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, All NBA 1st Team, All NBA Defensive Team)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
40.4 .535 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 35.0
5th MVP Season 97-98 (All Defensive, All NBA, AND his 6th Finals MVP. 5 MVP Seasons in 9 Seasons of Play, shit, barely even 8 1/4 seasons).
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
38.8 .465 5.8 3.5 1.7 0.5 28.7
Kobe 00-01 (All Defensive 2nd and All NBA 2nd)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
40.9 .464 5.9 5.0 1.7 0.6 28.5
Kobe 05-06 (All Defensive 1st and All NBA 1st)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
41.0 .450 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 35.4
That may be so... I don't know Phil's motives... but logistically speaking, there is no better person than the coach of both stars to speak on the matter. A statement will be taken more seriously by more people "after" he's done coaching.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Yeah, but as the dudes coach currently, he's not gonna down Kobe in anyway. He's gonna build him up.
Jordan was and probably always will be better than Kobe in everyway. Jordan was the dominating player on his team. He didn't need another dominating player on his team to win.
Rookie Season 84-85 (Rookie of the Year):
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
38.3 .515 6.5 5.9 2.4 0.8 28.2
First MVP Season 87-88 (MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, All NBA 1st Team, All NBA Defensive Team)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
40.4 .535 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 35.0
5th MVP Season 97-98 (All Defensive, All NBA, AND his 6th Finals MVP. 5 MVP Seasons in 9 Seasons of Play, shit, barely even 8 1/4 seasons).
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
38.8 .465 5.8 3.5 1.7 0.5 28.7
Kobe 00-01 (All Defensive 2nd and All NBA 2nd)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
40.9 .464 5.9 5.0 1.7 0.6 28.5
Kobe 05-06 (All Defensive 1st and All NBA 1st)
MP FG% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
41.0 .450 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 35.4
Why would Phil go out of his way to make a comment like that? As if Kobe really needs this for some extra motivation...LOL. Steve Kerr said the same thing, and he was a teammate of Jordan's for many years. What excuse do you have for that one? Only an clueless moron would say Jordan was better "in every way"...that's not even debatable. Kobe has a way better shot than Jordan ever had. Jordan had the luxury of having contending teams built around him, which helped make his resume look nice. But who's to say Kobe wouldn't have won 8 straight rings with those teams? I definitely think Kobe woulda' done it, considering he wouldn't have retired in '94 like Jordan. And yea...Jordan DID need another dominant player on his team to win, it just so happened that he wasn't as offensively dominant as Shaq or even Gasol, which worked out perfect for Jordan's numbers. Notice how Kobe's numbers were closer to Jordan's numbers these past 2 seasons ('05-'06 and '06-'07), yet he's considered a better player THIS season. Numbers don't mean shit when it comes to measuring greatness, especially when you're comparing different eras and circumstances...PeACe
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton, who cares if it was past their primes MJ never had anyone of that callibor around him
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton
You're arguing that those weren't the perfect pieces and great complimentary players? You're dissing Pippen, Rodman, and Grant? MJ never had anyone of the same caliber as Gary Payton and Karl Malone? LMAO. PLEASE. STOP. NOW.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton
You're arguing that those weren't the perfect pieces and great complimentary players? You're dissing Pippen, Rodman, and Grant? MJ never had anyone of the same caliber as Gary Payton and Karl Malone? LMAO. PLEASE. STOP. NOW.
no, MJ never had someone like Gary Payton or Karl Malone. Please, prove me wrong.
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perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton, who cares if it was past their primes MJ never had anyone of that callibor around him
So your saying Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr and Grant all playing in their primes can't match up against Malone (40 years old), Payton (35 years old), and Shaq (32 years old)? LOL.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton
You're arguing that those weren't the perfect pieces and great complimentary players? You're dissing Pippen, Rodman, and Grant? MJ never had anyone of the same caliber as Gary Payton and Karl Malone? LMAO. PLEASE. STOP. NOW.
Jordan never had GREAT talent around him. Pippen wouldnt be shit without Jordan. Rodman can get rebounds thats it, Grant was garbage in my opinion. Kobe continues to have great talent around him, but Jordan meshed his team together way better then Kobe has in the last few seasons albeit this season. But this season, i feel that the Lakers have a great squad but have been injury prone.
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what happened to Kukoc and Pippen after MJ retired?
look at Pippen's career after Chicago, it was a joke.
MJ made those guys who they were. Without him they were shit.
atleast Malone, Payton and Shaq were all stars on their own without Kobe.
Rodman was a rebound monster but what else could he do? get 5 points a game and miss 41% of his freethrows?
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton
You're arguing that those weren't the perfect pieces and great complimentary players? You're dissing Pippen, Rodman, and Grant? MJ never had anyone of the same caliber as Gary Payton and Karl Malone? LMAO. PLEASE. STOP. NOW.
Are you readin this shiet? This dude just shitted on Rodman and Pippen like they were nothing.
Look at their numbers...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rodmade01.html
Pippen has a career average of 16/6/5/2. Rodman has a career average of 7/13/1. Those aren't average numbers dickhead. Harper and Kukoc put up some damn good all around numbers too.
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dickhead??
very mature response 8)
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton
You're arguing that those weren't the perfect pieces and great complimentary players? You're dissing Pippen, Rodman, and Grant? MJ never had anyone of the same caliber as Gary Payton and Karl Malone? LMAO. PLEASE. STOP. NOW.
Jordan never had GREAT talent around him. Pippen wouldnt be shit without Jordan. Rodman can get rebounds thats it, Grant was garbage in my opinion. Kobe continues to have great talent around him, but Jordan meshed his team together way better then Kobe has in the last few seasons albeit this season. But this season, i feel that the Lakers have a great squad but have been injury prone.
LMAO...Pippen wouldn't be shit without Jordan? Is that why he led the Bulls to a 7 game series in the Eastern Semi-Finals when Jordan retired? Make sense, buddy. Rodman could only get rebounds? He couldn't defend the 1-5 like no other? That was just everyones imagination? Grant was garbage? LMAO. STOP. Jordan didn't mesh shit "way better than Kobe", he just never had a starting 5 that consisted of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton.
People...notice how all the arguments that are anti-Kobe are total bullshit, while the pro-Kobe arguments actually make sense.
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what happened to Kukoc and Pippen after MJ retired?
look at Pippen's career after Chicago, it was a joke.
MJ made those guys who they were. Without him they were shit.
atleast Malone, Payton and Shaq were all stars on their own without Kobe.
Rodman was a rebound monster but what else could he do? get 5 points a game and miss 41% of his freethrows?
LMAO...Pippen wasn't a star without Jordan? He never led the Bulls to the Eastern Semis? He wasn't considered the 2nd best player in the league behind Jordan at one point? He didn't define the point forward? KILL YOURSELF.
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
Jordan had the perfect pieces around him every year. That nigga would be 1-n-done too if he was expected to carry Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown over the Phoenix Suns led by their back-to-back MVP point guard.
perfect peices?
dennis rodman (headcase freak)
scottie pippen (probably not considered a top 50 alltime player without MJ)
tony kukoc (made more than Pip at one point didnt he?)
steve kerr (well, he can shoot 3's...)
luke longly
horace grant (the original goggle eyes)
Kobe had SHAQ!! the nigga had Derek Fischer and Big Shot Bobby Horry.
one year he had Karl Malone and Gary PAyton
You're arguing that those weren't the perfect pieces and great complimentary players? You're dissing Pippen, Rodman, and Grant? MJ never had anyone of the same caliber as Gary Payton and Karl Malone? LMAO. PLEASE. STOP. NOW.
Are you readin this shiet?
Yes, and I can't stop laughing... :laugh:
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So your saying Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr and Grant all playing in their primes can't match up against Malone (40 years old), Payton (35 years old), and Shaq (32 years old)? LOL.
I'm starting to think Hack Wilson is an alias, like that LADODGER nicca.
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After reading this thread half way thru i was just curious to see how many of yall that replied on this thread actually saw jordan play in the begining and in his prime?I have seen Jordan play back in the day and i will still say that Kobe game overall is truely unstoppable and your forget to mention Kobe doesnt get the Jordan rules call for him which would mean a few more free throws and steals.Jordan was a greedy SOB back in his early but yet you dont really here people talking shit about that do you.Kobe has really gotton the bad end of the deal just because he truely will be the GOAT and is happening within our very own eyes and if you dont see it you are fucking blind. 8)
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PJ says funny stuff all the time to get a rise out of niggas
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So your saying Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr and Grant all playing in their primes can't match up against Malone (40 years old), Payton (35 years old), and Shaq (32 years old)? LOL.
I'm starting to think Hack Wilson is an alias, like that LADODGER nicca.
::)
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NIK, think what you wanna think. Jordan is the GOAT. 8)
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NIK, think what you wanna think. Jordan is the GOAT. 8)
but Jordan had Luc Longely on his team, Kobe never had someone that good!!!
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NIK, think what you wanna think. Jordan is the GOAT. 8)
but Jordan had Luc Longely on his team, Kobe never had someone that good!!!
We can't forget about John Paxson and BJ Armstrong, they were prodigious ball players no doubt.
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NIK, think what you wanna think. Jordan is the GOAT. 8)
but Jordan had Luc Longely on his team, Kobe never had someone that good!!!
Longely was consistent... Paxon and Armstrong were good role players. You don't win 72 games on just one superstar. You win because you have a team of good players that know how to execute.
Plus Rodman won 2 rings before ever joining the Bulls. I shouldn't even have to defend Pippen.
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Lets just end it like this...
As of right now, Jordan is better. But Kobe is very worthy of being compared to him. And he does have a GREAT chance of being better than him by the end of his career.
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As of now the main difference between MJ and Kobe is the shot selection .. through his carreer , MJ has been INCREDIBLY efficient when it comes to hitting his spots in the triangle and knocked down the Js .. Jordan knew from where he was the most efficient i.e the fadeway jumper from the 4th spot in the triangle and that 17-18 feet jumper from the wing ... from those who actually watched lots of MJ games, it's impressive how many 40+ or 50+ pts he had by hitting his "usual" shots .. don't get me wrong , the fadeaway is hard to knock down but he was unstoppable with it and just keep on using that move ... on the other side Kobe got more range and can hit from anywhere and it may be the problem when it comes to efficiency ... Kobe (it has been better since Gasol is here) is still taking "bad" shots , yep he can hit crazy shots but it hurts his FG percentage ... 45% for a player with his shooting skills isn't enough imo ..
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I agree with phil... jordan and kobe are both alike skills wise but mj has been the best in his career but kobe is better right now.. he got some amazing skills we seing through the years and he is only 29 years old with alot of time left on his career to prove he is the best. only phil knows the best outta both niggaz through his coaching expereince.. and i agree wit it! 8)
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not possible this nigga koba not even better than Lebron soo how he better than Jordan
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not possible this nigga koba not even better than Lebron soo how he better than Jordan
kobe is better than lebron
but lebron hasn't hit his ceiling yet
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not possible this nigga koba not even better than Lebron soo how he better than Jordan
how about get your black panther ass out of this thread , come back in the G Spot and tell everybody how Larry Bird and John Stockton were the representation of the devil on a B-Ball court
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Jordan> Lebron> Kobe
PJ Carlesimo> Phil Jackson
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kobe is a great player in fact one of the best, but he just aint on jordans level....soryy but he aint. I orderd a game off pontel the other week and it was the bulls v bullets in 92 i think it was. Just watching that game was a glimpse at how good jordan actually was. his fadeaway was damm near unstopable from the post up posistion. Until kobe has those 6 rings thats the way it gunna be for me.
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Okay how is he wrong? Kobe has more range, an unlimited arsenal of moves, and more intensity. Wanna stop Jordan? Force him to take 3s. Keep Kobe out of the paint and he'll knock down long range js from anywhere. All Kobe needs is an MVP and another ring or 2 and this debate will be too close for the haters to feel comfortable.
PS: Didn't Tex Winter just say Kobe has better leadership skills than Jordan?
even if he did win, Jordan will always be considered the best player ever. Just because he was the first one to accomplish what he did, get the endorsment and advertising he did.
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jordan: 5 MVPs, 6 rings, Rookie of the year, 10 scoring titles (#1 all time PPG), 5987 playoff points (33.4 PPG)
kobe: 0 MVPs, 3 rings, 2 scoring titles, 3053 playoff points (23.3 PPG)
lebron: 0, 0, 1 scoring title, 901 playoff points (27.3 PPG)
thats where we stand at this point in time.
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the mvps are very big
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the mvps are very big
yeah, being THE number one player in the league 5 times
not "the best all around talent"
but THE best player in the league of 300 players, thats crazy.
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Hack Wilson came thru with the nail in the coffin
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NIK, think what you wanna think. Jordan is the GOAT. 8)
but Jordan had Luc Longely on his team, Kobe never had someone that good!!!
Longely was consistent... Paxon and Armstrong were good role players. You don't win 72 games on just one superstar. You win because you have a team of good players that know how to execute.
Plus Rodman won 2 rings before ever joining the Bulls. I shouldn't even have to defend Pippen.
Don't even respond to this guy...dude is making a mockery out of himself.
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As of now the main difference between MJ and Kobe is the shot selection .. through his carreer , MJ has been INCREDIBLY efficient when it comes to hitting his spots in the triangle and knocked down the Js .. Jordan knew from where he was the most efficient i.e the fadeway jumper from the 4th spot in the triangle and that 17-18 feet jumper from the wing ... from those who actually watched lots of MJ games, it's impressive how many 40+ or 50+ pts he had by hitting his "usual" shots .. don't get me wrong , the fadeaway is hard to knock down but he was unstoppable with it and just keep on using that move ... on the other side Kobe got more range and can hit from anywhere and it may be the problem when it comes to efficiency ... Kobe (it has been better since Gasol is here) is still taking "bad" shots , yep he can hit crazy shots but it hurts his FG percentage ... 45% for a player with his shooting skills isn't enough imo ..
I don't think Jordan had much of a better shot selection than Kobe, I just think he had way less range and was placed in way less bail out situations. He never went for those remarkable 35+ foot fadeaways or shot over 3 defenders with the clock winding down like Kobe is known for, because he wasn't placed in those circumstances nearly as much. If Jordan had better range and less of a triangle to work with, his percentage would be way down.
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Okay how is he wrong? Kobe has more range, an unlimited arsenal of moves, and more intensity. Wanna stop Jordan? Force him to take 3s. Keep Kobe out of the paint and he'll knock down long range js from anywhere. All Kobe needs is an MVP and another ring or 2 and this debate will be too close for the haters to feel comfortable.
PS: Didn't Tex Winter just say Kobe has better leadership skills than Jordan?
even if he did win, Jordan will always be considered the best player ever. Just because he was the first one to accomplish what he did, get the endorsment and advertising he did.
And George Mikan was the first one to accomplish being an NBA superstar, does that make him better than Jordan? You gotta use better logic than that when comparing talent.
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jordan: 5 MVPs, 6 rings, Rookie of the year, 10 scoring titles (#1 all time PPG), 5987 playoff points (33.4 PPG)
kobe: 0 MVPs, 3 rings, 2 scoring titles, 3053 playoff points (23.3 PPG)
lebron: 0, 0, 1 scoring title, 901 playoff points (27.3 PPG)
thats where we stand at this point in time.
Notice how we're comparing skill level, not resumes. LOL
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the mvps are very big
yeah, being THE number one player in the league 5 times
not "the best all around talent"
but THE best player in the league of 300 players, thats crazy.
Yea, MVP awards are very "crazy", considering bias jorunalists get to hand 'em out...Steve Nash is better than Kobe as well, right? "Nail in the coffin". LOL.
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someone's cranky just because his boy isn't worthy of winning MVP
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Kobe isn't worthy?! OMG. I'm out.
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not possible this nigga koba not even better than Lebron soo how he better than Jordan
how about get your black panther ass out of this thread , come back in the G Spot and tell everybody how Larry Bird and John Stockton were the representation of the devil on a B-Ball court
and how about you just shut it....thanks
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Scitt, u my boy and all.... but you are trippin hard with this one....
I can't believe you think Kobe could have one on Jordan's 90's Bulls squad.
Or vice versa, put mid-09's Jordan with Shaq and the Lakers back in 03 and there's no way they would lose to the Pistons, they would of been the greatest team in history.
Jordan will do whatever it takes to win with the game on the line. Jordan could basically turn it on and turn it off whenever he wanted. He could drop 50, or just wait till crunch time and take it over at the end.
Jordan is the greatest athlete in any sport in any history.. End of story.
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LOL @ Kobe having more range than Jordan. Jordan shot over 50% from the field for some seasons which is unheard of for a two guard/ swingman. Of course his shot selection wasn't jacking up threes, which could lower his field percentage. But Jordan wasn't in the paint posting up either.
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Phil also said Kobe was uncoachable, remember? So take anything he says with a huge grain of salt. If there's one thing that Phil knows how to do, it's incite reactions from his words. He usually has ulterior motives with everything he says.
Notice Phil didn't say Kobe is more valuable to his team than Jordan, or that Kobe is simply better than Jordan. The fact that he chose his words so carefully illustrates that he thinks Jordan is the greater player.
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^^Right on point. Phil says a lot of things, and he seems to know how each of his players need to be managed. Ever since Kobe came into the league, we've had to deal with the talk of the "next Jordan", or how they compare to each other, but I don't think Jordan's career can be matched. Instead of worrying about it, enjoy watching Kobe play for his game because even if you are rooting for the Lakers to lose, it's fun to watch.
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You guys have just got to understand that NIK is a tool. He lives and breathes anything Kobe. He's extremely jealous of every other NBA player that is considered elite...namely Jordan and Lebron. He will argue and argue and argue. One thing I find humorous is that he's always posting things that say something along the lines of "So-and-so is notorious for doing *insert whatever*" and yet we all know that Phil Jackson always says things to motivate his players. This is just another useless Kobe thread started by the moderator of this board.
NIK, people that have been here for a long time no that you have ruined this board with your incessant blabbering about Kobe. All your threads get turned to shit by people because you can't stop polluting the board with crap.
This board needs a Kobe thread. NIK, you could even make it a password only board so that all the "nutriders" couldn't hijack your threads. Hell, you could even go a step further and only allow yourself to post. That way you could agree with what you said earlier and keep that post count rising.
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Phil is getting up there in age so it's understandable that he's going senile.
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^^What an unexpected response from Hack Wilson. ::)
Since you're the expert on this, what do results say? My results say that you're a major Laker hater. Good job.
No Kobe=No rings.
No Shaq=No rings.
No Jordan=No rings.
No Pippen=No rings.
Now say something worthwhile.
michael jordan = 6 rings as the teams best player
shaq = 3 rings as his teams best player
kobe = zero
Kobe was the best player on the team that lost to Detroit though, he can take satisfaction in that right?
for sure
comparing kobe to michael is just wrong....
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You guys have just got to understand that NIK is a tool. He lives and breathes anything Kobe. He's extremely jealous of every other NBA player that is considered elite...namely Jordan and Lebron. He will argue and argue and argue. One thing I find humorous is that he's always posting things that say something along the lines of "So-and-so is notorious for doing *insert whatever*" and yet we all know that Phil Jackson always says things to motivate his players. This is just another useless Kobe thread started by the moderator of this board.
NIK, people that have been here for a long time no that you have ruined this board with your incessant blabbering about Kobe. All your threads get turned to shit by people because you can't stop polluting the board with crap.
This board needs a Kobe thread. NIK, you could even make it a password only board so that all the "nutriders" couldn't hijack your threads. Hell, you could even go a step further and only allow yourself to post. That way you could agree with what you said earlier and keep that post count rising.
+1
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Phil is getting up there in age so it's understandable that he's going senile.
hahahahahahahahahaha
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LOL @ Kobe having more range than Jordan. Jordan shot over 50% from the field for some seasons which is unheard of for a two guard/ swingman. Of course his shot selection wasn't jacking up threes, which could lower his field percentage. But Jordan wasn't in the paint posting up either.
Not even Jordan lovers debate whether he had more range than Kobe...it's obvious that you're completely lost in this thread. The reason Jordan shot high percentages was because he had no three ball.
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Scitt, u my boy and all.... but you are trippin hard with this one....
I can't believe you think Kobe could have one on Jordan's 90's Bulls squad.
Or vice versa, put mid-09's Jordan with Shaq and the Lakers back in 03 and there's no way they would lose to the Pistons, they would of been the greatest team in history.
Jordan will do whatever it takes to win with the game on the line. Jordan could basically turn it on and turn it off whenever he wanted. He could drop 50, or just wait till crunch time and take it over at the end.
Jordan is the greatest athlete in any sport in any history.. End of story.
Sorry, Infinite, but Jordan's Bulls always had the right pieces to contend...Jordan woulda NEVER co-existed with a guy like Shaq. Shaq woulda demanded a trade right off the bat if the 2 egos were on the same team. Kobe was able to put his ego aside to please Shaq, because he knew it meant winning champions. I don't see Jordan deferring to Shaq the way Kobe did...unfortunately, Shaq couldn't do the same thing for Kobe when he started declining. Really, Kobe woulda' won 8 straight on the 90s Bulls...Jordan could turn it off and on whenever he wanted, but so can Kobe. There's no difference in their tenacity...Kobe simply has a wider array of moves.
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Phil also said Kobe was uncoachable, remember? So take anything he says with a huge grain of salt. If there's one thing that Phil knows how to do, it's incite reactions from his words. He usually has ulterior motives with everything he says.
Notice Phil didn't say Kobe is more valuable to his team than Jordan, or that Kobe is simply better than Jordan. The fact that he chose his words so carefully illustrates that he thinks Jordan is the greater player.
That's because in Kobe's mind, he IS the coach. Thats not a knock on his ability, he's just a natural leader. LMAO@this quote somehow illustrating that Phil thinks Jordan is better...that's a priceless way of interpreting it. What would be Phil's motive behind saying this? For Kobe to step up his will to win and work ethic? LOLLL...seriously...stop stretching shit.
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You guys have just got to understand that NIK is a tool. He lives and breathes anything Kobe. He's extremely jealous of every other NBA player that is considered elite...namely Jordan and Lebron. He will argue and argue and argue. One thing I find humorous is that he's always posting things that say something along the lines of "So-and-so is notorious for doing *insert whatever*" and yet we all know that Phil Jackson always says things to motivate his players. This is just another useless Kobe thread started by the moderator of this board.
NIK, people that have been here for a long time no that you have ruined this board with your incessant blabbering about Kobe. All your threads get turned to shit by people because you can't stop polluting the board with crap.
This board needs a Kobe thread. NIK, you could even make it a password only board so that all the "nutriders" couldn't hijack your threads. Hell, you could even go a step further and only allow yourself to post. That way you could agree with what you said earlier and keep that post count rising.
+1
Of course you would agree with this douche...his whole existence on this forum consists of riding my nuts. Just look here: http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?action=profile;u=4997;sa=showPosts
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This is the classic NIK comeback. He can't argue with people who know what the hell is going on. Of course I rag on your ass...you're nothing but a punk bitch that needs to die.
Make your password protected Kobe Thread so the rest of us don't have to put up with the bullshit.
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LOL @ Kobe having more range than Jordan. Jordan shot over 50% from the field for some seasons which is unheard of for a two guard/ swingman. Of course his shot selection wasn't jacking up threes, which could lower his field percentage. But Jordan wasn't in the paint posting up either.
Not even Jordan lovers debate whether he had more range than Kobe...it's obvious that you're completely lost in this thread. The reason Jordan shot high percentages was because he had no three ball.
LOL @ Jordan having no three ball, and Kobe having it. Look up Jordan's career 3pt% and compare it to Kobe's
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This is the classic NIK comeback. He can't argue with people who know what the hell is going on. Of course I rag on your ass...you're nothing but a punk bitch that needs to die.
Make your password protected Kobe Thread so the rest of us don't have to put up with the bullshit.
Nobody forces you to come in here and ride my nuts, you choose to do that one your own, bitch boy. Now make some valid points (about something other than my nuts) or get the fuck out of here.
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LOL @ Kobe having more range than Jordan. Jordan shot over 50% from the field for some seasons which is unheard of for a two guard/ swingman. Of course his shot selection wasn't jacking up threes, which could lower his field percentage. But Jordan wasn't in the paint posting up either.
Not even Jordan lovers debate whether he had more range than Kobe...it's obvious that you're completely lost in this thread. The reason Jordan shot high percentages was because he had no three ball.
LOL @ Jordan having no three ball, and Kobe having it. Look up Jordan's career 3pt% and compare it to Kobe's
Yes...and Kobe's is better. What's your point? Not only does Kobe have a higher career percentage on threes, he shoots a career average of 3.6 threes a game to Jordan's 1.6. Jordan couldn't create a three point shot to save his life. That's why he shot under 20% from three point range 5 times in his career...something Kobe hasn't done once. You have to realize that the thing least debatable about this topic is which player had a better shot.
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there both amazing who the fuck cares..i cant believe kobe is only 29 tho ...we were at my buddys and his mom herd his name when we were watchin and was like is he still playing ..hah funny shit
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i think of it this way...no one will ever be considered the new micheal....just like no one will be the next wayne gretzky of hockey...or the next babe ruth...u now...they are all the guys that set the peak....i think even if they do have better numbers n shit those ppl will always be the name of the game if that makes ne sense
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Kobe also has enough sense not to make retarded Hanes underwear commercials with Cuba Gooding Jr... 8)
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Kobe also has enough sense not to make retarded Hanes underwear commercials with Cuba Gooding Jr... 8)
true i hate those commericals
but Kobe lost his biggest endorsements from the colorado shit
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Yes...he lost Mickey D's and a few others... but you'll never find Hanes underwear on that list.
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Haha, Jordan's game was so untouchable that the only way he gets bashed on is for his commercials..Which, by the way, it's Cuba that looks stupid in those, Jordan just getting another paycheck.
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Yes...he lost Mickey D's and a few others... but you'll never find Hanes underwear on that list.
lol Hanes is like posing for wheaties
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Haha, Jordan's game was so untouchable that the only way he gets bashed on is for his commercials..Which, by the way, it's Cuba that looks stupid in those, Jordan just getting another paycheck.
its interesting, Jordan got 3-4 mill a year until hte end of his chicago career when he started getting 30 mill
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Haha, Jordan's game was so untouchable that the only way he gets bashed on is for his commercials..Which, by the way, it's Cuba that looks stupid in those, Jordan just getting another paycheck.
It's just light joking....
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Hanes commercial >>>>>> Featuring on a Brian McKnight track.
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Brian McKnight is a cool singer... I'll guest on one of his songs before resorting to an undies commercial. 8)
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Brian McKnight is a cool singer... I'll guest on one of his songs before resorting to an undies commercial. 8)
Money
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Brian McKnight is a cool singer... I'll guest on one of his songs before resorting to an undies commercial. 8)
Really? I wouldn't stoop as low as being a gimmick rapper. Fuck it, give me a role where all I'm doing is signing autographs in a commercial, I'm straight with that.
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Haha, Jordan's game was so untouchable that the only way he gets bashed on is for his commercials..Which, by the way, it's Cuba that looks stupid in those, Jordan just getting another paycheck.
It's just light joking....
Haha, me too..And Brian McKnight is cool, plus everybody knows that all the rappers want to be athletes and vice versa, so it makes sense for him to have that appearance.
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Brian McKnight is a cool singer... I'll guest on one of his songs before resorting to an undies commercial. 8)
Really? I wouldn't stoop as low as being a gimmick rapper. Fuck it, give me a role where all I'm doing is signing autographs in a commercial, I'm straight with that.
sure thing... I can see your commercial now, a guy saying : Hey SGV! I'm wearing your underwear! ;D
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Haha, Jordan's game was so untouchable that the only way he gets bashed on is for his commercials..Which, by the way, it's Cuba that looks stupid in those, Jordan just getting another paycheck.
It's just light joking....
Haha, me too..And Brian McKnight is cool, plus everybody knows that all the rappers want to be athletes and vice versa, so it makes sense for him to have that appearance.
yeah, it's all fun.... hopefully no MJ fans will get their underwear in a bunch. but in the event that they do, MJ has a fresh new pair for them.. ;D
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LOL
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Nobody knows both players strengths and weaknesses better than Phil.
Jordan had the heart of a warrior, and the will to back it up.
And Kobe somehow doesn't?...LOL.
:D
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???
Kobe has heart...heart doesn't have the ability to teach everyone of your teammates how to play and apply defense, though. Heart doesn't make it easier for a power forward to start at center and a small forward to start at power forward. Heart, however, does make you come back with a vengeance after losing. Lakers in '09, Kobe=Finals MVP.
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do heart and 'better basketball skills' make you shoot 3 for your last 17 shots and 7 for 22 overall in the biggest came of your career?
is it odom and gasols fault that kobe missed 14 of 17 shots or did his 'better basketball skills' get shitted on?
u would think kobe's heart and better skills would at least be able to do better than the fuccin atlanta hawks and cleveland cavaliers.
kobe's teammates > lebrons & joe johnsons.
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No, but playing 1-on-5 will make you do all that...
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tough defense makes kobe cry(and lose horribly). boo hoo.
(http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/kobe1.jpg)
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No, but playing 1-on-5 will make you do all that...
its funny
LEBRON plays 1 on 5 and cleveland takes us to game 7
Kobe plays 1 on 5 and it goes to game 6...
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???
Kobe has heart...heart doesn't have the ability to teach everyone of your teammates how to play and apply defense, though. Heart doesn't make it easier for a power forward to start at center and a small forward to start at power forward. Heart, however, does make you come back with a vengeance after losing. Lakers in '09, Kobe=Finals MVP.
HEART = CHOKING AND THEN SITTING OUT DURING THE GAME AND WATCHING YOUR TEAMMATES TAKE THE REST OF THE SLAUGHTERING
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No, but playing 1-on-5 will make you do all that...
its funny
LEBRON plays 1 on 5 and cleveland takes us to game 7
Kobe plays 1 on 5 and it goes to game 6...
Cleveland plays great defense, you stupid dipshit..do you really watch basketball?
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tough defense makes kobe cry(and lose horribly). boo hoo.
(http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/kobe1.jpg)
Tough defense makes Kobe happy...unfortunately, his teammates didn't play none.
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tough defense makes kobe cry(and lose horribly). boo hoo.
(http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/kobe1.jpg)
Tough defense makes Kobe happy...unfortunately, his teammates didn't play none.
KOBE LOST TO THE BEST TEAM EVER
JUST FACE IT
REAL TALK