West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: infinite59 on July 28, 2004, 04:49:49 PM
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I'm supposed to prepare this little talk, so I'm practicing on here, give feedback if you want.
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It really has a lot to do with your interest in the matter. The friends I grew up with probably walked by dozens of women wearing hijabs, and never took any notice of it, never thought twice about it, cared very little. Muslim women and their style of dress was never mentioned once in any conversation I had ever had growing up. The times are different now. Muslims are now being discussed every day in the media. But back then I really don't ever remember it being something that was discussed.
My situation is a little bit different. I was raised Christian and I never could feel comfortable with Christianity. I was very interested in hearing opposing viewpoints. The first time I took notice of women covering themselves was in the movie Malcolm X which was often played on HBO as I was growing up. It made a very strong impression on me. There is a scene in the movie where Malcolm X was approaching women in the streets and saying, "This is who you really are," and showing them a picture of an audotorium of women all wearing white viels. It made a strong impression on me. You automatically think, "These are the most pure women I've ever seen" and curious "there's really women who act like that?"
Still, my becoming a Muslim was through predominately male influences. Then, the longer I was Muslim the more reverence I had for women for wearing the hijab, and the more I understood the important role it played in perserving Islam's value's of righteousness and piety within the Muslim community.
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My Question to You:
If Islam is sooo damn peaceful, how come women are treated like shit and forced to wear a hijab?
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My Question to You:
If Islam is sooo damn peaceful, how come women are treated like shit and forced to wear a hijab?
Talk to one they want to wear it. It guarantees that they are not looked at simply as sex objects and the covering up reserves them to be seen by only their husbands who love them and Allah who loves them. This Western society has taught women empowering comes by dressing so that men will not look at you as people but as sex objects. Feel free to add on Ibrahim or anyone else.
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My Question to You:
If Islam is sooo damn peaceful, how come women are treated like shit and forced to wear a hijab?
Talk to one they want to wear it. It guarantees that they are not looked at simply as sex objects and the covering up reserves them to be seen by only their husbands who love them and Allah who loves them. This Western society has taught women empowering comes by dressing so that men will not look at you as people but as sex objects. Feel free to add on Ibrahim or anyone else.
Exactly. The big lie being passed around is that Muslim women are oppressed and being forced to wear the hijab. If that is true, then how do you explain 5 million Muslim women inside America who willfully wear their traditional Islamic dress?
Not to mention, hardly any of the Muslim countries force their women to wear hijab. Infact, the only one I can think of now is Saudi Arabia, and that's only in a few of the cities of Saudi Arabia.
It's all just propaganda against Islam.
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yes but you can't deny muslim women are oppressed and have no where near the same rights as muslim men. if they wear it on their free will fine but u also can't deny the pressure put on them to stay covered up even if there is no law of the land to do so. The thing that always makes me wonder is you see them in the hot countries with only their eyes in view and they must be so hot inside there it must be almost unbarable
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It's all just propaganda against Islam.
Bullshit!
The Saudi kingdom is known for its harsh treatment of women, who are prohibited from driving or leaving their homes without their husbands, fathers, or brothers. In public, they are forced to wear suffocating black veils that cover them from head to toe, turning them into shadows of the men they walk behind. Baz wore a head scarf on her show, not a veil covering her face.
While violence toward women is not the norm in the Middle East, it does exist and there is strong bias against women.
In parts of the region, women are second-class citizens. In Kuwait, a 1963 law prohibits women from voting or running for office. Recent attempts to change this law have all failed. In remote areas of Jordan, honor killings (women murdered by family members for perceived sexual indiscretions) still take place. Some observers attribute the poor treatment of women to Islam, saying the religion allows for it. But Islam suports violence and discrimination against women.
The prophet Muhammad said women should be lower class citizens and treated with almost no rights.
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The Saudi kingdom is known for its harsh treatment of women
That's absolutely true. Why doesn't the U.S. take some action? Why don't we see this stuff on TV like we did with the Taliban?
The Saudi kingdom is known for its harsh treatment of women
But Islam suports violence and discrimination against women.
Islam doesn't support violence or discrimination against women. Just because the idiots who take these actions happen to be Muslim leaders, does not mean that the religion itself teaches or supports this.
The prophet Muhammad said women should be lower class citizens and treated with almost no rights.
Are you just talking out of your ass, or are you taking certain lines out of context to defeat the whole purpose of its actual meaning? If you want, I can provide you with some shit that would not only prove that women are not to be discriminated against in Islam, but also the fact that the Bible DOES include this belief.
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i wana see some muslim women in playboy :)...
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::)
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i don't get this thread, you mix you becoming a muslum with women wearing hijababby dabby ding dongs...whatever they're called. Are you trying to say you want to wear one or something?>
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That's absolutely true. Why doesn't the U.S. take some action? Why don't we see this stuff on TV like we did with the Taliban?
Because Saudi Arabi gives us oil and supports us.
Islam doesn't support violence or discrimination against women. Just because the idiots who take these actions happen to be Muslim leaders, does not mean that the religion itself teaches or supports this.
Are you just talking out of your ass, or are you taking certain lines out of context to defeat the whole purpose of its actual meaning? If you want, I can provide you with some shit that would not only prove that women are not to be discriminated against in Islam, but also the fact that the Bible DOES include this belief.
QUOTES FROM THE QURAN ARE BELOW
SURA [9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.
SURA [2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
SURA [5:33] The just retribution for those who fight GOD and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.
SURA [5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.
SURA [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make.
SURA [9:5 ANOTHER TRANSLATION] Fight and kill the idol worshipers wherever you find them.
http://www.musicinit.com/islam.html
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then how do you explain 5 million Muslim women inside America who willfully wear their traditional Islamic dress?
then we should kick them out cos they dont belong here
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If that is true, then how do you explain 5 million Muslim women inside America who willfully wear their traditional Islamic dress?
Hmm... There are approximately 5 million Muslims in the America. So every Muslim in America is a women ??? ::)
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That's absolutely true. Why doesn't the U.S. take some action? Why don't we see this stuff on TV like we did with the Taliban?
Because Saudi Arabi gives us oil and supports us.
Islam doesn't support violence or discrimination against women. Just because the idiots who take these actions happen to be Muslim leaders, does not mean that the religion itself teaches or supports this.
Are you just talking out of your ass, or are you taking certain lines out of context to defeat the whole purpose of its actual meaning? If you want, I can provide you with some shit that would not only prove that women are not to be discriminated against in Islam, but also the fact that the Bible DOES include this belief.
QUOTES FROM THE QURAN ARE BELOW
SURA [9:111] GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.
SURA [2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
SURA [5:33] The just retribution for those who fight GOD and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.
SURA [5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.
SURA [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make.
SURA [9:5 ANOTHER TRANSLATION] Fight and kill the idol worshipers wherever you find them.
http://www.musicinit.com/islam.html
If you want to make a point, chum, do it properly.
Pullin random quotes out of a 600 page book does no justice to your argument, assuming you have one.
It can make anything look bad.
The Quran, in the method in which it is presented has some sort of chronology to it. Certain chapters appear within a greater context or message (ie. war, peace, nation building, personal reponsibilities)
Im being easy on you now, because you are a Pac fan, so you get a pass. But dont come round herre pullin some dumb shit again, ya hear?
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If you want to make a point, chum, do it properly.
Pullin random quotes out of a 600 page book does no justice to your argument, assuming you have one.
It can make anything look bad.
The Quran, in the method in which it is presented has some sort of chronology to it. Certain chapters appear within a greater context or message (ie. war, peace, nation building, personal reponsibilities)
Im being easy on you now, because you are a Pac fan, so you get a pass. But dont come round herre pullin some dumb shit again, ya hear?
K, Im not saying Islam is an evil religion(even tho 50% support Bin Laden) but can you please explain to me those quotes above? Thanks!
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If you want to make a point, chum, do it properly.
Pullin random quotes out of a 600 page book does no justice to your argument, assuming you have one.
It can make anything look bad.
The Quran, in the method in which it is presented has some sort of chronology to it. Certain chapters appear within a greater context or message (ie. war, peace, nation building, personal reponsibilities)
Im being easy on you now, because you are a Pac fan, so you get a pass. But dont come round herre pullin some dumb shit again, ya hear?
K, Im not saying Islam is an evil religion(even tho 50% support Bin Laden) but can you please explain to me those quotes above? Thanks!
First of all, 50% of Muslims do not support Bin Laden. 50% of A POLLED GROUP OF MUSLIMS IN 1 COUNTRY SUPPORT BIN LADEN. Get your facts straight. You've been sonned by me way too many times for you to pull some dumb shit like this, or try to at least.
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First of all, 50% of Muslims do not support Bin Laden. 50% of A POLLED GROUP OF MUSLIMS IN 1 COUNTRY SUPPORT BIN LADEN. Get your facts straight. You've been sonned by me way too many times for you to pull some dumb shit like this, or try to at least.
Ya i know, CNN did a poll on Saudi Arabi, which i was refering too.
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First of all, 50% of Muslims do not support Bin Laden. 50% of A POLLED GROUP OF MUSLIMS IN 1 COUNTRY SUPPORT BIN LADEN. Get your facts straight. You've been sonned by me way too many times for you to pull some dumb shit like this, or try to at least.
Ya i know, CNN did a poll on Saudi Arabi, which i was refering too.
You said 50% of MUSLIMS. Stop misinterpreting the facts because you can't hold up a decent argument against me. 50% of MUSLIMS would be about 500-600 million Muslims. The last time I checked the Muslim population in Saudi Arabia was a lot less than that. Now that I've sonned you for the 4573987527543289 time, please learn your place and shut up.
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You said 50% of MUSLIMS. Stop misinterpreting the facts because you can't hold up a decent argument against me. 50% of MUSLIMS would be about 500-600 million Muslims. The last time I checked the Muslim population in Saudi Arabia was a lot less than that. Now that I've sonned you for the 4573987527543289 time, please learn your place and shut up.
Yes, Master
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You said 50% of MUSLIMS. Stop misinterpreting the facts because you can't hold up a decent argument against me. 50% of MUSLIMS would be about 500-600 million Muslims. The last time I checked the Muslim population in Saudi Arabia was a lot less than that. Now that I've sonned you for the 4573987527543289 time, please learn your place and shut up.
Yes, Master
lol you should hand over your ho card after that one
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Since I'm on a roll with this sonning, let me continue.... let's look at some quotes from the many different versions of the Bible...
"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her."
Exodus 21:7-8
"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."
Leviticus 21:9
"...and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss."
Ecclesiasticus 22:3
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days.
Leviticus 12:2-5
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
Deuteronomy 22:28-30
"And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die."
Ecclesiastes 25:22
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ok and whats your point..I just showed Quotes from the Quran that showed that Islams religion promotes violence.
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ok and whats your point..I just showed Quotes from the Quran that showed that Islams religion promotes violence.
My point is that I can also take lines out of context from a book that has a far deeper meaning to it than that, and make it seem like Christianity promotes the oppression of women. However, I don't really believe that because me being the intelligent, open-minded person that I am, I know that neither Christianity nor Islam promotes anything close to violence or oppression. It just depends on what context you take these lines out of and how you interpret them.
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Since I'm on a roll with this sonning, let me continue.... let's look at some quotes from the many different versions of the Bible...
different versions?
they're from different chapters..
btw.. might be interesting to see which testament they're from.. as ones in the old will count for jews too
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Since I'm on a roll with this sonning, let me continue.... let's look at some quotes from the many different versions of the Bible...
different versions?
they're from different chapters..
btw.. might be interesting to see which testament they're from.. as ones in the old will count for jews too
Yeah, different versions; correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there different ones such as the NIV Bible that most Trinitarians hold as true?
Yes, some might count for Jews too; as a matter of fact, there are lines which explain similar things in the Talmud. However, that wasn't even my point. I don't believe Judaism, Christianity, or Islam promotes anything like this. I was just trying to show Machiavelli that taking lines out of context from a religious book such as this, written over a thousand years ago, can have a totally different meaning from what the text is actually trying to explain.
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That's absolutely true. Why doesn't the U.S. take some action? Why don't we see this stuff on TV like we did with the Taliban?
Because Saudi Arabi gives us oil and supports us.
How come you admit that and at the same time you argue that the US went to Iraq because of the evil dictatorship of Saddam Hussein?
Pretty retarded isnt it.
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thats the reason i supported the war its all gone tits up now tho, everyone fighting for different things its just a viscious circle to be honest i don't know if democracy will work in iraq especially when it turns out that they democraticly elect a very anti western government.
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Pullin random quotes out of a 600 page book does no justice to your argument, assuming you have one.
I'm feeling you on that one. One can abuse words from the Quran or the Bible this way.
And that is exactly what I have against organized religion.
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Pullin random quotes out of a 600 page book does no justice to your argument, assuming you have one.
I'm feeling you on that one. One can abuse words from the Quran or the Bible this way.
And that is exactly what I have against organized religion.
Yes I used to know some outrageous Bible Quotes but I dont have a Bible anymore
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How come you admit that and at the same time you argue that the US went to Iraq because of the evil dictatorship of Saddam Hussein?
Pretty retarded isnt it.
Not really if you ask me. Im with the US, I dont give a fuck what Saudi Arabi does, if it gives us oil and suports us. We need it and so really its not our probelm if they kill people or abuse people. But if they nationailez it, then there would be a problem...
Im like china(and thats why i respect that country), im about out about making money, and i don´t give a fuck about anything else really.
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^ I hope that you never, ever, run anything that involves other people in your life.
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^ I hope that you never, ever, run anything that involves other people in your life.
also, Im wondering why you even argue, when you admit that it all comes down to the fact that you dont know shit and the only principe you go by is the US having advantages. but prolly you dont get what I mean like several times before.
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also, Im wondering why you even argue, when you admit that it all comes down to the fact that you dont know shit and the only principe you go by is the US having advantages. but prolly you dont get what I mean like several times before.
Im not arguing, thats my oppion
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Machiavelli, as somebody else had mentioned earlier, TURN IN YOUR HOE CARD. 8)
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Machiavelli, as somebody else had mentioned earlier, TURN IN YOUR HOE CARD. 8)
I allready did.
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To Hajj Ibrahim Islam (it's nice to chat with you, since you dont diss, and you makes good discussions. So..)
Then, the longer I was Muslim the more reverence I had for women for wearing the hijab, and the more I understood the important role it played in perserving Islam's value's of righteousness and piety within the Muslim community.
Please explain.
Exactly. The big lie being passed around is that Muslim women are oppressed and being forced to wear the hijab. If that is true, then how do you explain 5 million Muslim women inside America who willfully wear their traditional Islamic dress?
Simple cause they cant be oppressed, there. I mean there if you walk in the streets, dressed with a jeans and a t-shirt, nobody will even notice you. So it's easier to dress "like Americans". Still, i've heard some stories about women beaten to death cause they refused to wear the hijab. It happened in my little city, here in Italy. And i'm sure it happens in America, too. It's America/Italy who makes it easier for them to dress a jeans, not Islam or its freedom. Do you agree?
Not to mention, hardly any of the Muslim countries force their women to wear hijab. Infact, the only one I can think of now is Saudi Arabia, and that's only in a few of the cities of Saudi Arabia.
You betta ask Afghani women. They werent even allowed to go to school or to learn ABC. Is mine just a speculation? (i'm not from there, i dont know).
To Machiavelli
ok and whats your point..I just showed Quotes from the Quran that showed that Islams religion promotes violence.
Not really. I mean you can do the same with the Bible. Have you ever read it? We got killings, racism, violence, women seen just like a part of a male body created to serve him, God who wants ppl to kill their first son, etc.. That's not the message. You have to check the message. And both Christians and Muslims dont promote violence.
To 7even the Harbinger
How come you admit that and at the same time you argue that the US went to Iraq because of the evil dictatorship of Saddam Hussein? Pretty retarded isnt it.
They give oil to Russia, Germany and France. This explains EVERYTHING. The war, and the "peace".
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To 7even the Harbinger
How come you admit that and at the same time you argue that the US went to Iraq because of the evil dictatorship of Saddam Hussein? Pretty retarded isnt it.
They give oil to Russia, Germany and France. This explains EVERYTHING. The war, and the "peace".
that doesnt make me feel uncomfortable at all. Im not the kind of dude who's that close-minded, ignorant, selfish and patriotic who's in favor of everyfuckinthing his country does or what's better for his country/himself or whatever. You can be damn sure I would be as strong against the war if Germany wouldve joined as Im now. Hell, I would be even stronger against this disgrace to common sense and humanity if Germany started this war. It's not that I hate the US politics because it's the US, and it's not like I hate the war because Germany is against it. So your comment doesnt touch me the slightest little bit, honestly. Right now, Im just glad Germany was so strong to hold against the US. Very glad. It's good not to be slaves to them, and good to still have real allies like France and Russia. Good to know not the whole world is insane, you know.
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nah it's not good to have friends like france and russia :P
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To 7even the Harbinger
How come you admit that and at the same time you argue that the US went to Iraq because of the evil dictatorship of Saddam Hussein? Pretty retarded isnt it.
They give oil to Russia, Germany and France. This explains EVERYTHING. The war, and the "peace".
that doesnt make me feel uncomfortable at all. Im not the kind of dude who's that close-minded, ignorant, selfish and patriotic who's in favor of everyfuckinthing his country does or what's better for his country/himself or whatever. You can be damn sure I would be as strong against the war if Germany wouldve joined as Im now. Hell, I would be even stronger against this disgrace to common sense and humanity if Germany started this war. It's not that I hate the US politics because it's the US, and it's not like I hate the war because Germany is against it. So your comment doesnt touch me the slightest little bit, honestly. Right now, Im just glad Germany was so strong to hold against the US. Very glad. It's good not to be slaves to them, and good to still have real allies like France and Russia. Good to know not the whole world is insane, you know.
My comment wasnt directed to you, and it wasnt directed to common people at all. Germany, France and Russia (and that's a fact, not an opinion) are 3 biggest creditors of Iraq in the whole world. They (ab)used the Oil For Food program (give Saddam food -which he never shared with common people- to get oil for free), and they used Iraq's oil (like you said, USA uses oil from Saudi Arabia). So USA did a war to eliminate Saddam and to control that area (even the oil, for sure! You dont spend 800m $ and more to save Iraqi from Saddam), and France, Germany and Russia didnt want the war to happen cause they didnt want to loose their privileges with the Oil For Food program. It's all political, man. Not philosophical. Once we say this shit str8, then yes! In USA, in Germany, in France, in Russia and here in Italy there are common peoples who are against all the kinds of war. I'm one of them, if you ask me. You are one of them, like you said. But no, France and Russia arent friend/allies of you in no way. They just had some business in common.
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once again i watch Maradona kill Mach, Mach btw u saying u dont care is a damn shame, basicly it proves everything u say is jus stupid as fuck and its no wonder ur always getting put out on the forum. cuz u said "Saudi Arabiasupports us i dont care wut they r doing with there women etc.."....well ok Bush Jr. u should get real far in life now.
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once again i watch Maradona kill Mach, Mach btw u saying u dont care is a damn shame, basicly it proves everything u say is jus stupid as fuck and its no wonder ur always getting put out on the forum. cuz u said "Saudi Arabiasupports us i dont care wut they r doing with there women etc.."....well ok Bush Jr. u should get real far in life now.
You think Saudi Arabia would care if the US was doing the same?
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u think the way america keeps fucking up in foriegn affairs, and only "help" countries that have sumtin to benefit them in a way, any country cares about them anymore? they could do wut they wunt, why should any of those ocuntries give a fuck, USA neevr really helped them with anything in reality, they actually make things worse.
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u think the way america keeps fucking up in foriegn affairs, and only "help" countries that have sumtin to benefit them in a way, any country cares about them anymore? they could do wut they wunt, why should any of those ocuntries give a fuck, USA neevr really helped them with anything in reality, they actually make things worse.
I could care less what the world thinks about the US quite frankly. And im pretty sure the Bush admistration doesnt either.
Also, your saying that the US doesnt help the world? Wake up:
•The foreign and defense policies of Ronald Reagan resulted in the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the freeing of approximately 122 million people in Eastern Europe.
• The state of Israel would cease to exist if not for American protection, and about 5.5 million Jews would be in grave danger.
• Nearly 23 million Taiwanese would be denied freedom if not for American protection. More than 48 million South Koreans would be living under a dictatorship if not for American protection. USA action led to the removal of the Serbian dictator Milosevic, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Balkans.
• The USA and Britain removed the Iraqi dictator Hussein, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East. And we have also removed the terrorist Taliban government in Afghanistan.
• America is sending $15 billion to Africa to help victims of AIDS. That is more then all countries.
• American action in Central America, Grenada , and Haiti has kept millions of people out of totalitarian regimes. Of course, all of this has cost every American taxpayer big. And thousands of American servicepeople have lost their lives protecting people overseas.
The truth is that the USA has freed more human beings in 230 years than the rest of the world combined.
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wow USA has done a few deed's thats great, that's cute, doesn't make up for them also having the most fuck ups. I don't need to wake up, i know and see just clearly. btw the 15 million going towards aid's are from US orginization that have nothing to do with the government. and Isreal was promised to palestine from Britian after they helped britian defeat the Turks. but they handed it over to USA and USA not being fans of middle easterns and such was more in favor of Isreal, but what's funny Isreal was never really a declared country, If you know the history you know what i mean by this comment. Even tho now its known as Isreal, in a way it shouldn't be. so Mach get ur head out your fucking school history books, try actually learning a thing or two about real life.
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u think the way america keeps fucking up in foriegn affairs, and only "help" countries that have sumtin to benefit them in a way, any country cares about them anymore? they could do wut they wunt, why should any of those ocuntries give a fuck, USA neevr really helped them with anything in reality, they actually make things worse.
I could care less what the world thinks about the US quite frankly. And im pretty sure the Bush admistration doesnt either.
Also, your saying that the US doesnt help the world? Wake up:
•The foreign and defense policies of Ronald Reagan resulted in the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the freeing of approximately 122 million people in Eastern Europe.
• The state of Israel would cease to exist if not for American protection, and about 5.5 million Jews would be in grave danger.
• Nearly 23 million Taiwanese would be denied freedom if not for American protection. More than 48 million South Koreans would be living under a dictatorship if not for American protection. USA action led to the removal of the Serbian dictator Milosevic, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Balkans.
• The USA and Britain removed the Iraqi dictator Hussein, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East. And we have also removed the terrorist Taliban government in Afghanistan.
• America is sending $15 billion to Africa to help victims of AIDS. That is more then all countries.
• American action in Central America, Grenada , and Haiti has kept millions of people out of totalitarian regimes. Of course, all of this has cost every American taxpayer big. And thousands of American servicepeople have lost their lives protecting people overseas.
The truth is that the USA has freed more human beings in 230 years than the rest of the world combined.
are you retarded? I fuckin sonned this ^post of yours already, shall I look for my reply again and post it again to embarrass you, or should I just leave it like that? one thing I hate about you is that you dont learn.
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are you retarded? I fuckin sonned this ^post of yours already, shall I look for my reply again and post it again to embarrass you, or should I just leave it like that? one thing I hate about you is that you dont learn.
You didnt "Son" that post. All you said was Irelevent bullshit that everybody else disagreed.
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are you retarded? I fuckin sonned this ^post of yours already, shall I look for my reply again and post it again to embarrass you, or should I just leave it like that? one thing I hate about you is that you dont learn.
You didnt "Son" that post. All you said was Irelevent bullshit that everybody else disagreed.
lies have short legs pinocchio
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are you retarded? I fuckin sonned this ^post of yours already, shall I look for my reply again and post it again to embarrass you, or should I just leave it like that? one thing I hate about you is that you dont learn.
You didnt "Son" that post. All you said was Irelevent bullshit that everybody else disagreed.
Everyone? Machiavelli nobody agrees with you.
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are you retarded? I fuckin sonned this ^post of yours already, shall I look for my reply again and post it again to embarrass you, or should I just leave it like that? one thing I hate about you is that you dont learn.
You didnt "Son" that post. All you said was Irelevent bullshit that everybody else disagreed.
Everyone? Machiavelli nobody agrees with you.
lol fa real
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are you retarded? I fuckin sonned this ^post of yours already, shall I look for my reply again and post it again to embarrass you, or should I just leave it like that? one thing I hate about you is that you dont learn.
You didnt "Son" that post. All you said was Irelevent bullshit that everybody else disagreed.
Everyone? Machiavelli nobody agrees with you.
lol fa real
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Uhh yeah thats bull about the only country that they force to wear the hajib or whatever is Saudi arabia, I got tons of family in iran and stuff and they are always talking to me like I hate this I always have to keep this on, why cant I just be free, I always hear taht tons of times not from my family alone others too ...
Im not saying muslims are bad and they force women to do this blah blah but im just saying nah man dont think that everyone thinks wearing all the stuff all the time is just fine, and they are ok with it and dont get bothered at all
Oh by the way I had so much other stuff to say earlier in response to everyone elses posts, but I read so much I forgot all the stuff I was gonna say dang lol
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thats the reason i supported the war
:-[
*respect for don rizzle drops quicker than Enron stock*
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thats the reason i supported the war
:-[
*respect for don rizzle drops quicker than Enron stock*
and what was wrong in supporting the removal of an evil dictatorship who had oppressed and killed many of his people? i was sold on that fact alone like i think we should do in the rest of the world. i just didn't support the way they went about waging war and how america in particular carried out its opporations coming out heavy handed. This is the reason i supported the war in Iraq, I would also say i have lost support due to the way things have been carried out, but still support the british troops.
and my comments about when democracy comes to iraq america are unlikly to be happy with the result considering its more than likely to elect very anti western government, also the current power struggles shows the amount of divisions in the vision of the way iraq should head after being released from saddams oppression. christians are being driven out, those who sell western products are put out of business, foreign nationsals are being driven out, those who sell alcahol are put out of business, iraqi police and security forces are targeted daily, the kurds are almost certainly not going to get any further towards a fully independent state thanks to turkey, other surrounding countries are also trying to influence the iraqi politics, the different religious groups do seem to be able to live in unity with each other after all those years of oppression they have little tollerance of other cultures. which is not the enviroment for a successful democracy, i really believe there needs to be a longer cooling down period but not at the hands of the west maybe the arab league could come up with something fair and equitable but more importantly credible to all;/
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I'm supposed to prepare this little talk, so I'm practicing on here, give feedback if you want.
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It really has a lot to do with your interest in the matter. The friends I grew up with probably walked by dozens of women wearing hijabs, and never took any notice of it, never thought twice about it, cared very little. Muslim women and their style of dress was never mentioned once in any conversation I had ever had growing up. The times are different now. Muslims are now being discussed every day in the media. But back then I really don't ever remember it being something that was discussed.
My situation is a little bit different. I was raised Christian and I never could feel comfortable with Christianity. I was very interested in hearing opposing viewpoints. The first time I took notice of women covering themselves was in the movie Malcolm X which was often played on HBO as I was growing up. It made a very strong impression on me. There is a scene in the movie where Malcolm X was approaching women in the streets and saying, "This is who you really are," and showing them a picture of an audotorium of women all wearing white viels. It made a strong impression on me. You automatically think, "These are the most pure women I've ever seen" and curious "there's really women who act like that?"
Still, my becoming a Muslim was through predominately male influences. Then, the longer I was Muslim the more reverence I had for women for wearing the hijab, and the more I understood the important role it played in perserving Islam's value's of righteousness and piety within the Muslim community.
Islam.....
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Since I'm on a roll with this sonning, let me continue.... let's look at some quotes from the many different versions of the Bible...
"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her."
Exodus 21:7-8
"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."
Leviticus 21:9
"...and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss."
Ecclesiasticus 22:3
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days.
Leviticus 12:2-5
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
Deuteronomy 22:28-30
"And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die."
Ecclesiastes 25:22
Now here is what made me stick with Jesus. In every other major religion I read about it was possible to find things that by today's standards came off as evil and wrong. I couldn't find that with Jesus, and believe me I tried. Now I could be wrong so if you can find me a quote from Jesus that isn't good and pure then I would like to see it. I'm not talking about St. Paul or the Apostles, or any of that crap from the Old Testament, just the Jesus stuff.
What I found with Judaism and Islam (and most organized of Christianity) was that while they may not promote evil there are instances where they condone it. Jesus never once condoned any type of evil. The Quran may be more efficient and economical, but I've yet to see the level of grace and good will that Jesus spoke of, for it becomes tainted by the patches of accepting evil. Why would God take a step back with the Quran? That is the question I asked myself time and time again when I was soul searching. Then I realized that Caesar used divinty to build an army and create revolution, and I saw it as no different than what Muhammed did.
I can quite easily twist the words of Jesus to apply to every human being on the planet, and their ultimate ascension to paradise, so long as they do not commit actions of evil, and if they do they are sorry they did it.
Of course, this doesn't mean I want everyone to be Christian, this just means that I believe that any one who strays away from definate evils (by this I mean murder, assault, rape, etc. and not sex or alcohol), and learns from the evils that one has committed, restraining from repeating them, is a christian in essence, and I believe that's good enough for the big man up stairs.
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Interesting post. But could one not say that Jesus was not realistic and had no comprehension of human nature, whereas the Jews and Muslims did?
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"give unto God what is God's and give unto Caesar what is Caesar". I interpret this as more than just "pay your taxes". To me he says that you ashould be a good citizeb and do what a citizen is supposed to do.
Of course Jesus did not come to revolutionize the world. Any intelligent human being could use logic to understand right and wrong, thus acheiving righteousness. Jesus said he came for the sinners, not the righteous. This shows that he realized that good was present on earth with out him, but there was much evil he wished to eliminate. Also, It was understood that many aspects of life were covered and well established so he didn't need to cover that, OR, did he know in advance that many customs and traditions would fade with the times and purposely chose not to cover them. It's all up in the air.Who knows?
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Thanks
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks what?
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for adressing my question. You do what 99% of people on here refuse (for whatever reason) to do
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Oh, okay. No problem.
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(http://store1.yimg.com/I/alhediya_1806_916678) or (http://abes-celebrities.com/maria_grazia_cucinotta_22.jpg)
hmmm.....
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(http://www.islamfortoday.com/afghaneyes.jpg)
Hijabs are oppresive
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Hijabed women > Feminite Italian "men"
Keep pluckin ya eyebrows, Armando
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Since I'm on a roll with this sonning, let me continue.... let's look at some quotes from the many different versions of the Bible...
different versions?
they're from different chapters..
btw.. might be interesting to see which testament they're from.. as ones in the old will count for jews too
LMAO!! there all from the Old Testement!!!
I was just thinkin that!!
isnt some of the Old Testement in some muslim teachings as well??
All three are connected in one way am i right (Christianity, Judaism, And Islam??)
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You're right. The Old Testament connects all three religions. Adam and Eve were created and had kids populating the earth. Guys like Abraham and Moses were descendants, thus creating Judaism.The Jewish prophets followed. The Jews belive in these people as messengers of God, and that one day another messenger will come and save them. Jesus came a millenia (form Moses's time) or two later and reffered to the old teachings. He also reformed many of the views of the old teachings. Jesus claimed to be the Messaiah and the direct son of God, claiming divinty. The Jews accepted him only as a another prophet and denounced his claim as a divine being. 600 years later Muhammed was born and claimed to be the next prophet, and the last one. Neither Christians (because they had Jesus) nor Jews (because he can't be the last one) accepted him in any way as a prophet, and labeled him more of a tyrant that made up a connection with God to enlist troops. The Arabs on the other hand believed whole heartedly in his claims and follow his teachings to this day.
Whether any of this is true is up in the air, but that's how the story goes.
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I must say you summed that up beautifully!
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You're right. The Old Testament connects all three religions. Adam and Eve were created and had kids populating the earth. Guys like Abraham and Moses were descendants, thus creating Judaism.The Jewish prophets followed. The Jews belive in these people as messengers of God, and that one day another messenger will come and save them. Jesus came a millenia (form Moses's time) or two later and reffered to the old teachings. He also reformed many of the views of the old teachings. Jesus claimed to be the Messaiah and the direct son of God, claiming divinty. The Jews accepted him only as a another prophet and denounced his claim as a divine being. 600 years later Muhammed was born and claimed to be the next prophet, and the last one. Neither Christians (because they had Jesus) nor Jews (because he can't be the last one) accepted him in any way as a prophet, and labeled him more of a tyrant that made up a connection with God to enlist troops. The Arabs on the other hand believed whole heartedly in his claims and follow his teachings to this day.
Whether any of this is true is up in the air, but that's how the story goes.