West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Trauma-san on November 24, 2002, 12:58:24 PM
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Why are there so many anti american posts, pointing out negative aspects of America on this board? Just wondering why everybody was so bigoted against america. Peace~
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I've often asked myself this question and haven't really come up with a good answer...
I think it's funny cause without the United States, this board wouldn't be here. It's called the WESTCOAST connection forum. It's not the westcoast of Spain, it's not the westcoast of South Africa, It's not the westcoast of the UK, Its the westcoast of America
I have a couple of theories that I've been thinking about but I don't think any of them really explain the truth.
1.) The Jay-z/Puff daddy Complex.
When it's obvious that you are at the top of your game and you are very successfull, other will spend their time trying to pick you apart and bring you down.
2.) The Osama/Columbine Complex.
People have seen Osama on TV calling for the destruction of America and for some reason, they agree with part of what he says. For some reason, these people don't fit in with the rest of society, so they need to find an outlet for their anger. This creates a group of people who really don't fit in, and so they form their own little "America hating group". They get along with eachother cause they have this thing in common and in turn feel acceptance.
I dunno, thats what I've come up with so far, What do you think?
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I dunno man. Good theories, that probably explains why somepeople hate, but not all, lol.
I just don't get why people are such assholes about it. Most americans (that I know at least) have respect for other countries, don't trash them, stuff like that. In school, I was always taught how cool other countries are, and I always wanted to go visit Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa, the Middle east. It was like one of the average dreams of people I went to school with, to get to travel and see all the historic places in the world, all the great cities and countries. Then I grow up , and the people I know from those countries all talk shit non stop about my country.
For instance. We hear about corrupt politicians all the time on here, from America. But nobody talks or mentions that the british government houses a royal family that's just a puppet family; they own millions and millions, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property, are supported by the british taxpayers, and do nothing but sit on their ass all day. The british people love them, and revere them, even call them Mum, and get pissed if you say anything bad about them.
But WE'RE the brainwashed ones, right?
Moral: Everybody's got dirty laundry. Don't talk about stains unless you live in a laundrymat.
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yea i agree, america is one great fuckin country, and if it werent for america, half the ppl that post up on this board wouldnt even be here
i wanna hear techs opinion on this one......
peace.....
~Blanket~
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All the people that talk trash about the u.s. will just be like "all i'm doing is stating facts" but yet when CWalker does the same, they wanna ban him.
Why? Because "stating facts" when they're ALWAYS negative is BITCH MADE. When I start seeing positive threads about the u.s., then I'll respect their opinion. Until then, they hold no weight with me (like they give a crap anyways, somebody will always share their pessimism, they don't need me).
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All the people that talk trash about the u.s. will just be like "all i'm doing is stating facts" but yet when CWalker does the same, they wanna ban him.
Why? Because "stating facts" when they're ALWAYS negative is BITCH MADE. When I start seeing positive threads about the u.s., then I'll respect their opinion. Until then, they hold no weight with me (like they give a crap anyways, somebody will always share their pessimism, they don't need me).
yo man i care what u think if that helps. i always enjoy reading ur posts, u got alot of good things to say. i know most ppl prolly wont agree with me but i think ur one of the smarter mo fuckers on this board for real.....
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Thanks Man, Stay Real!
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this has to be one of the funniest threads in the while
The media has done its job really well
Im not gonna talk too long cuz its like this, yall dont know the real deal, you guys dont know the real shit that goes on in this world...
so its like explaining the world order to a baby
America is not hated because it is "free" or cuz its "the best economy"...for Gods sake how naive are you guys?
Does the fact that America has interfered with almost every single country in the world mean anything? The fact that America's foreign policy is oozing with hypocricy? The fact that your war mongering leaders support oppression and tyranny in the middle east and islamic world? the fact that any country that resembles any sort of individuality is deemed Evil ? Maybe its the fact that while you remain armed to the teeth, u call for war against a country with half a dozen scud missles? Maybe its the fact that almost every day a new muslim nation pops up in ya mouths when ya talkin about war..(now its the saudis...can yall believe these devils? lol)
like i said, you dont understand this shit, you guys aint lived through it, you know nothing of it...your eyes are closed....
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^^ Get off your soapbox.
What I said was, (I guess maybe you get your ideas misconstrued?) Why are ALL the posts negative? EVERYTHING YOU POST ABOUT AMERICA IS NEGATIVE! Don't you think you're a bitch for that? I do.
Peace~!
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so its like explaining the world order to a baby
(now its the saudis...can yall believe these devils? lol)
like i said, you dont understand this shit, you guys aint lived through it, you know nothing of it...your eyes are closed....
Man, you are totally a bitch. You call me a baby, a devil, and then say I'm not living through my own country being attacked? Man, shut up, I'm sick of your pessimistic shit. It's ALWAYS somethign with you, and you think it's the cool thing to do to attack and belittle people. It's not. Grow up, man, how old are you now? Don't you think it's time to start treating people right, and stop all the "I'm better than you" stuff? Why do you have to compare me to a baby? Why do you have to call me a devil, like it's a joke? It's no joke. YOu wanna call me a bitch or something like that, fine, but to call my whole country devils? You know that's a racist term used to demean whites by the NOI, right? Why use a word with connotations like that?
there will always be a silent war in the world, with people like you who want to attack everything, and people like me who always strive to reinforce the postive things in any situation, you'll NEVER get me or my people to only focus on the bad, like you do.
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^^ Get off your soapbox.
What I said was, (I guess maybe you get your ideas misconstrued?) Why are ALL the posts negative? EVERYTHING YOU POST ABOUT AMERICA IS NEGATIVE! Don't you think you're a bitch for that? I do.
Peace~!
Ya'll are jealous of Tech and therefore you would try to demonize him even if he made more posotive threads about America. Ya'll aren't intelligent enough to understand him so you try to bring him down. He just got finished explaining to you, in plain english, why he has an aversion towards America. Instead of trying to understand him you disregarded everything he said and called him a bitch.
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And you're a bitch-baby ,because you're not even on his intellectual level.
MY POST, since I have to explain myself again, was; why ONLY focus on the negative?
Because you're a bitch! That's why, and you, infinite, are a traitor to your own nation.
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And you're a bitch-baby ,because you're not even on his intellectual level.
MY POST, since I have to explain myself again, was; why ONLY focus on the negative?
Because you're a bitch! That's why, and you, infinite, are a traitor to your own nation.
LOL. Patriotism and nationalism have no place in my life. I am loyal to Allah, he is the creator and sustainer of this world. And to him I will return. I don't pledge allegiance to anything but Allah's will.
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this has to be one of the funniest threads in the while
The media has done its job really well
Im not gonna talk too long cuz its like this, yall dont know the real deal, you guys dont know the real shit that goes on in this world...
so its like explaining the world order to a baby
America is not hated because it is "free" or cuz its "the best economy"...for Gods sake how naive are you guys?
Does the fact that America has interfered with almost every single country in the world mean anything? The fact that America's foreign policy is oozing with hypocricy? The fact that your war mongering leaders support oppression and tyranny in the middle east and islamic world? the fact that any country that resembles any sort of individuality is deemed Evil ? Maybe its the fact that while you remain armed to the teeth, u call for war against a country with half a dozen scud missles? Maybe its the fact that almost every day a new muslim nation pops up in ya mouths when ya talkin about war..(now its the saudis...can yall believe these devils? lol)
like i said, you dont understand this shit, you guys aint lived through it, you know nothing of it...your eyes are closed....
Osama/Columbine Complex...
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And you're a bitch-baby ,because you're not even on his intellectual level.
MY POST, since I have to explain myself again, was; why ONLY focus on the negative?
Because you're a bitch! That's why, and you, infinite, are a traitor to your own nation.
LOL. Patriotism and nationalism have no place in my life. I am loyal to Allah, he is the creator and sustainer of this world. And to him I will return. I don't pledge allegiance to anything but Allah's will.
"Stupid" complex...
I haven't explained this one, but it's pretty easy to figure out.
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HAHAHAHA.
Well, I'm gonna apologize to Tech. He got me pretty heated. I don't think he's a bitch, but he acts like one. Tech's a pretty good guy, I just think he should think about what he says. He offended me when he called me a devil. I am anything but a devil. You could call me a fag before you could call me a devil.
Infinite on the other hand is disgusting. While Tech would never stoop to the level of insulting my religion and my god, as I understand my god; .... Infinite would. What a bitch. How infinite can think it's alright to attack my belief system is astounding. How can he possibly feel he's doing ANY god right by that? Allah as he understands him is not that different from God as I understand him, and Allah would never support Infinite's continual attacks at the CORE of my beliefs. He's attacking my life, everything I stand for.
And you know what? I can't do anything about it. I can't argue with an opinion. I can't bash Islam, because I'm physically incapable of it, I'd make myself sick if I did; besides, I don't have 1 thing bad to say about Islam, and that's on my life.
Infinite, you've done me a HUGE injustice, and for that, you oughta be ashamed.
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Your apology is wrapped around insults towards me and infinite , therefore i dont accept it
its really complex u see, im not pissed now,on the contrare Im quiet relaxed, see it aint a personal thing, its just reality,u guys dont know the real...and im not intending to insult u when i call yall babies but when it comes to understanding the historical and geo political ramifications of America's military/economic superiority, your knowledge is very limited. Just like how my knowledge is very limited when it comes to cars, i dont know shit about cars.
By the way, that devil comment was intended for your govt, not you Trauma. (US senators callin for probe into saudi/911 link...)
And please dont ask me why i feel they are devils..lol
Once again, im really cool now, i aint gonna get into a war of words.
Just very simply..you guys dont know whats going on...If you knew what ya govt has done historically, you would piss on the stars and stripes.
Peace
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HAHAHAHA.
Well, I'm gonna apologize to Tech. He got me pretty heated. I don't think he's a bitch, but he acts like one. Tech's a pretty good guy, I just think he should think about what he says. He offended me when he called me a devil. I am anything but a devil. You could call me a fag before you could call me a devil.
Infinite on the other hand is disgusting. While Tech would never stoop to the level of insulting my religion and my god, as I understand my god; .... Infinite would. What a bitch. How infinite can think it's alright to attack my belief system is astounding. How can he possibly feel he's doing ANY god right by that? Allah as he understands him is not that different from God as I understand him, and Allah would never support Infinite's continual attacks at the CORE of my beliefs. He's attacking my life, everything I stand for.
And you know what? I can't do anything about it. I can't argue with an opinion. I can't bash Islam, because I'm physically incapable of it, I'd make myself sick if I did; besides, I don't have 1 thing bad to say about Islam, and that's on my life.
Infinite, you've done me a HUGE injustice, and for that, you oughta be ashamed.
As somebody looking in, I'd like to offer this:
Infinite dosen't live Islam like he says, It's clear from his comments that he dosen't take the words of the Quran to heart. He just likes to use it as a justification for his hate.
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And can u please explain to me how you came up with this theory of yours Engle? Have you studied the Quran and subsequently Infinites daily routines?
Youre the same person who refferred to Infinite as being a "stupid complex" because he reaffirmed his allengiance to God only, what makes you think I shouldnt dismiss this nonsense right now?
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And can u please explain to me how you came up with this theory of yours Engle? Have you studied the Quran and subsequently Infinites daily routines?
Youre the same person who refferred to Infinite as being a "stupid complex" because he reaffirmed his allengiance to God only, what makes you think I shouldnt dismiss this nonsense right now?
I know that the Quran dosen't support hate.
Infinite has repeatedly belittled, made fun of and showed Hate twards Trauma, and anybody else who dosen't share his extremist views.
That's not real Islam in my mind, and it's not the Islam I've read about.
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:-\ I dunno, but its not only america, you rarely see any positive threads here. I guess its 'fun' to disscuss about negative things, and you can really have a big debate over it.
-{bLaDe}
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With all respect, I realize Muslims are great people, and on the average, your average muslim is probably just as close to god as your average christian. But the insults, jabs, cussing, and fighting that constantly occurs on this board has really given me a jaded view of Muslims.
Tech, I'm sorry you felt I was insulting you. I'm pretty upset at how you talk about my government, and how infinite talks about my government and my religion.
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but see...and again, i aint catchin no feelins or nuthin..
but i dont understand why yall average citizens get so upset when i criticize your American govt, do u realize how much Bush is hated in the world? Do u fully understand the amount of anti American hatred in the world? See the middle east? 80% of the people there dont like you, THERE HAS TO BE A REASON FOR THAT GUYS...cmon man put 2 and 2 together,
anyways, im wastin time here when i should finish this god damn essay, its 12:30 am , and im gonna be up all night...
*gets back to his essay*
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but see...and again, i aint catchin no feelins or nuthin..
but i dont understand why yall average citizens get so upset when i criticize your American govt, do u realize how much Bush is hated in the world? Do u fully understand the amount of anti American hatred in the world? See the middle east? 80% of the people there dont like you, THERE HAS TO BE A REASON FOR THAT GUYS...cmon man put 2 and 2 together,
anyways, im wastin time here when i should finish this god damn essay, its 12:30 am , and im gonna be up all night...
*gets back to his essay*
I totally agree i think there are definitely reasons that much of the world hates us and I would very much like to objectively understand this problem. However, by your same logic there is a good portion of the world that dislikes many middle eastern cultures there must also be a reason for this. If you want the people on this board to consider your side perhaps you should also consider theirs.
I think you should also consider whether your actions and words on this site are helping the situation. When you engage someone on here you attempt to produce a desired outcome. From what I've noticed that desired outcome is to get them to understand the other side of things. If your side is a logical one then it is possible to achieve this however seroius though must be place on one's actions before they are acted upon in order to do so.
This is a difficult skill to acquire, but what is the point of arguing without it. On a personal level, I don't believe I have such a talent so for me I prefer now to observe more than anything else. Although at times my temper gets flared and I mess up.
Anyways, I'm curious about what you think. And also about your thoughts on why america is so hated.
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Tech Is what I would call a "Jealousy" Complex...same with 80% of the world U were tlaking about. We,Americans and American governemnt are SELFISH ASSHOLES...and we'r proud of it. Little nations such as Afghanistan (and People such as Infinite) look at us with great contempt and hatred...they fuel their hatred even more by learning more about us. Honestly, we are on the top and everyone hates it since we do everything possible to make SURE we are on the top...I dunno but thats how the world is and we are not "evil" or "wrong"...we are just selfish and I think the whole world is selfish so whats all u haters' point?
Infinite...haha I think he has had a hard (maybe depressing) life and he found islam as a good way to establish peace and order in his krazy life...but he hates America, and prolly blames america for his previous problems, i think...and He uses his hate for merica(which is unjustified) to motivate his quest to become a better musim/learn more about Islam. I dunno let him do his thing, I guess but we all know he is wrong...and a traitor of course.
thats my 20 cents, lol
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It's funny listening to Englewood and Trauma talk about the Holy Qur'an and Muslims like they know anything about Islam. I challenge you to find it in the Qur'an, an ayat where it says that if someone is doing or saying something wrong you can't be mad at them and voice your aversion. Infact, you will find the exact opposite. But yes, Allah is with those who show restraint. Assalamulakum brothers.
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It's funny listening to Englewood and Trauma talk about the Holy Qur'an and Muslims like they know anything about Islam. I challenge you to find it in the Qur'an, an ayat where it says that if someone is doing or saying something wrong you can't be mad at them and voice your aversion. Infact, you will find the exact opposite. But yes, Allah is with those who show restraint. Assalamulakum brothers.
The point is, that you were showing hatred to Tauma for having a different religion than you. You deleted the evidence so I can't show people, but Im sure Trauma will back me up on this and anybody else who saw it before you deleted it.
Last time I checked, what Trauma is doing isn't wrong.
You are a bigot. End of Discussion.
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damn... where the new infinite go :'( we back to square one
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It's funny listening to Englewood and Trauma talk about the Holy Qur'an and Muslims like they know anything about Islam. I challenge you to find it in the Qur'an, an ayat where it says that if someone is doing or saying something wrong you can't be mad at them and voice your aversion. Infact, you will find the exact opposite. But yes, Allah is with those who show restraint. Assalamulakum brothers.
The point is, that you were showing hatred to Tauma for having a different religion than you. You deleted the evidence so I can't show people, but Im sure Trauma will back me up on this and anybody else who saw it before you deleted it.
Last time I checked, what Trauma is doing isn't wrong.
You are a bigot. End of Discussion.
Yeah. Trauma's religion says that Jesus has been in America. I asked him to explain that once and he got upset.
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damn... where the new infinite go :'( we back to square one
Phew!! Thank goodness, sometimes I feel like Im the only one!
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Allah teaches us to be patient, tolerant. I was not. An aversion overtook me after Trauma and Jake repeatedly called me the devil. Trauma had previously reported me to the authorities as being a terrorist. I then strayed away from everything I've been taught by my Islamic mentors, and I made attempts to discredit another man's religion.
I sincearly ask for your forgiveness, Jake and Trauma. And upon Isha prayer today I will ask for Allah's forgiveness.
In the future I will continue to defend my religion, but I will refrain from discrediting anothers religion. I ask that Siavish and Tech help prevent me from doing this again. I am eternally sorry and ask for forgiveness. Peace.
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I'm gonna try and bring some objective thinking to this debate. I may fail, but I'll try.
First off : Why are all posts negative? I think the reason for this is to counter-balance the propoganda of TV, movies etc, which proclaim the US as the clean-cut hero of the world. I think the purpose of these posts is not to make you hate your own country, but to realise the crimes to humanity that are being done behind the curtain of capitalism. I myself am not against capitalism, but I am against the corruption that is allowed breed because of it. Perhaps with the knowledge that these posts hope to give you, you can question your own government and maybe they will change in a small way.
As for the Stupid/osama/jealous complexes i don't think they apply. The worldwide anti-american feeling is not towards the american citizens. In fact they are probably related to us in some way. It is with, as Quake put it, the selfishness of the US government foreign policies. It is one thing to remain on top, but doing so by putting other countrys down, bombing them, basically fucking around with their own concerns, thats what breeds hate. Also, the fact that yall backed out of KYOTO, which everyone else, regardless of their economic situation signed up to. The fact that GWB wouldnt even go to the world summit in south africa.
Now trauma made a good point, every country has its rotten apples. Very true. Here in Ireland our current government are a lying corrupt bunch of dick-lickers. But the only thing i can say in their favour is they pay their dues internationally and dont go around trying to control the world. I may have missed out on a few points here, but if I have, point them out and I'll gladly answer them.
One last thing....Why does this always become Christian vs Muslim??? I'm of no religion, brought up in a christian society but I think it needs to be seperated from political discussions.
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^^ Props to you homie. This is the kind of response I'm sure Trauma was hoping for, and it actually makes alot of sense. I'm not saying I think it's okay for constant shots at america, but it does shed some light on why there are so many posts. As for the muslim/christian issue, the shit is tired. Just worship who you worship, and don't sweat someone else's views. And to people who generalize all americans, it's tired too. I know my government does some shady shit, and I don't condone it. However, I'm still proud of my country. It does a huge amount of good too, and that is what I concentrate on. I'm allowed to say what I want, worship who I want, and I have a good job that puts food on the table. So why wouldn't I reflect positivley on my nation. Fuck the haters.
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LOL Yall...Irish Thug...Look at history and tha nations that have been on the top of the world...America is fucking super-considerate if you compare US to the superpoweres of the past. Dont be going on with the "its one thing to be on top" bullshit...here are sum examples:-->
Ceaser's Empire...fool was ruthless and took over every damn nation he could
Britian...super imperialists ..were cruel, used evil strategies such as "divide and conquer" which are still hurting some peoples(hindus and muslims in india)...Britain didnt give a shit about anyone but themselves
Look at the Islamic rulers of the past...pathans fucking plundered and raped and destroyed everyplace they went and left the place like shit with no money and in shambles too...
THINK ABOUT ALL THIS SHIT, adn THEN call US bad
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Here's how the board rolls.
Somebody comments on how negative everything is, it turns into a big debate with christians and muslims getting slammed. Since the muslims rule the board, they slam harder.
Then somebody comes along and says "Oh, lets forget it" and everybody tries to play nice again.
It's like a bad girlfriend.
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but see...and again, i aint catchin no feelins or nuthin..
but i dont understand why yall average citizens get so upset when i criticize your American govt, do u realize how much Bush is hated in the world? Do u fully understand the amount of anti American hatred in the world? See the middle east? 80% of the people there dont like you, THERE HAS TO BE A REASON FOR THAT GUYS...cmon man put 2 and 2 together,
anyways, im wastin time here when i should finish this god damn essay, its 12:30 am , and im gonna be up all night...
*gets back to his essay*
I'm with ant on this one, if 80% of the people in the middle east hate us, so what? A lotta people hate muslims right now, that doesn't mean "THERES A REASON FOR THAT GUYS!".
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Quake ... you don't need to tell me how bad those superpowers were.
We fought for 900years to get rid of the british. I personally don't "hate" them, but still I am wary of british people, even though i have family there. What they did was horrible, horrific, but I think that can be put under a different heading. What we have here is a new form of imperialism or global superpower. Very like how the enemies are no longer nations, but cells that work within the nations. I think america is bad in a different way. It gives a good standard of living to healthy, wealthy americans. My uncle who emigrated there would testify this. However social framework is not great, but I won't give out about that because you dont give out about policies within my country. The badness of america mainly resides within the big corporations and their puppets in government.In an attempt to maintain its own economic stability, the US is exploiting other countries and the environment. In the past issues were different. The US doesnt colonise other countries and enslave them. However, it does tend to search for "strategic strongholds" in parts of the world, and rather than enslave the people, enslave their economies. The US is not an evil country. GWB is not evil. He may be stupid and/or dangerous, but not evil. At least not evil like old british colonists. However his lack of empathy on foreign issues and his eagerness for war make him a major threat to the world. Damn, Ive lost my train of thought....
Anyway, heres a metaphor i think may apply... Every basket has it's rotten apples, but unless you get rid of these apples and replace them with good ones the basket will always be tainted.
Every country has a dirty underside, but what is unfortunate is the one with a greater amount of dirt, is the nation that is trying to control the world.
I guess what I'm trying to say is two wrongs dont make a right quake. The british were bastards, but that doesnt mean you should be too.
I dont want to come across as totally anti american because i know there are good aspects to it. Just try and open ur mind slightly and see its not all good, but it could be.
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but see...and again, i aint catchin no feelins or nuthin..
but i dont understand why yall average citizens get so upset when i criticize your American govt, do u realize how much Bush is hated in the world? Do u fully understand the amount of anti American hatred in the world? See the middle east? 80% of the people there dont like you, THERE HAS TO BE A REASON FOR THAT GUYS...cmon man put 2 and 2 together,
anyways, im wastin time here when i should finish this god damn essay, its 12:30 am , and im gonna be up all night...
*gets back to his essay*
I'm with ant on this one, if 80% of the people in the middle east hate us, so what? A lotta people hate muslims right now, that doesn't mean "THERES A REASON FOR THAT GUYS!".
Sorry Trauma thats not what I was getting at. Actually I was trying to say the exact opposite. There are a lot of muslims that hate america and there is an must be a reason for this. I think its a worthwhile situation to try and understand. Likewise, I think we should try to understand the reverse. That being why do americans dislike many muslim and middle eastern countries.
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o.k.
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all i'm going to say is i know america isn't the only 'bad' country out there........if america deserves to be panned so much and y'all are sooooo intellectual about world history let's talk about
the british
the french
the italians
japan
korea
spain(the slaughtering of aztecs in mexico, and the crusades in spain where many muslums killed innocent spanish people in church to "show them the rath of allah)
let's talk about how blacks are more racist than whites currently
let's talk about woman's lib in other countries
let's talk about aaallllllllllll the negative stuff then guys if there's so much crap out there in the world
you don't always have to single us out
and to answer tech's question "why do you americans get so mad when i criticize your government"
tech....for someone who prides himself on knowing everything there is to know about the american government your ignorant to the basic principle of US government............WE RUN THE GOVERNMENT , this ain't a dictatorship........and perhaps if more people voted here you'd see that the average citizen isn't what YOU foriegnors think it is.......god
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all i'm going to say is i know america isn't the only 'bad' country out there........if america deserves to be panned so much and y'all are sooooo intellectual about world history let's talk about
the british
the french
the italians
japan
korea
spain(the slaughtering of aztecs in mexico, and the crusades in spain where many muslums killed innocent spanish people in church to "show them the rath of allah)
let's talk about how blacks are more racist than whites currently
let's talk about woman's lib in other countries
let's talk about aaallllllllllll the negative stuff then guys if there's so much crap out there in the world
you don't always have to single us out
and to answer tech's question "why do you americans get so mad when i criticize your government"
tech....for someone who prides himself on knowing everything there is to know about the american government your ignorant to the basic principle of US government............WE RUN THE GOVERNMENT , this ain't a dictatorship........and perhaps if more people voted here you'd see that the average citizen isn't what YOU foriegnors think it is.......god
so YOU decided that that George Bush should be president even though Al Gore had more votes??
you decided to bomb afghanistan??
YOU decided to put the "parental advisory" on explicit cd's ??
...
....
...
i think not...
the people dont decide a shit... not even a rightfull president ::)
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all i'm going to say is i know america isn't the only 'bad' country out there........if america deserves to be panned so much and y'all are sooooo intellectual about world history let's talk about
the british
the french
the italians
japan
korea
spain(the slaughtering of aztecs in mexico, and the crusades in spain where many muslums killed innocent spanish people in church to "show them the rath of allah)
let's talk about how blacks are more racist than whites currently
let's talk about woman's lib in other countries
let's talk about aaallllllllllll the negative stuff then guys if there's so much crap out there in the world
you don't always have to single us out
and to answer tech's question "why do you americans get so mad when i criticize your government"
tech....for someone who prides himself on knowing everything there is to know about the american government your ignorant to the basic principle of US government............WE RUN THE GOVERNMENT , this ain't a dictatorship........and perhaps if more people voted here you'd see that the average citizen isn't what YOU foriegnors think it is.......god
so YOU decided that that George Bush should be president even though Al Gore had more votes??
you decided to bomb afghanistan??
YOU decided to put the "parental advisory" on explicit cd's ??
...
....
...
i think not...
the people dont decide a shit... not even a rightfull president ::)
Yes... I voted for George Bush.
Yes I thought that THE TALIBAN, and AL QUEDA should be removed by any means necessary
Although I didn't decide to put the stickers on CD's, I think it's a good idea.
Plus, couldn't you come up with something better to diss us on? Stickers on CD's? Come on... Aren't there more pressing issues in the world than the stickers on CDs? ::)
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and to answer tech's question "why do you americans get so mad when i criticize your government"
tech....for someone who prides himself on knowing everything there is to know about the american government your ignorant to the basic principle of US government............WE RUN THE GOVERNMENT , this ain't a dictatorship........and perhaps if more people voted here you'd see that the average citizen isn't what YOU foriegnors think it is.......god
LMFAO!!!!!!! America is not controlled by the people , wtf?
damn cuz...you need help....
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all i'm going to say is i know america isn't the only 'bad' country out there........if america deserves to be panned so much and y'all are sooooo intellectual about world history let's talk about
the british
the french
the italians
japan
korea
spain(the slaughtering of aztecs in mexico, and the crusades in spain where many muslums killed innocent spanish people in church to "show them the rath of allah)
let's talk about how blacks are more racist than whites currently
let's talk about woman's lib in other countries
let's talk about aaallllllllllll the negative stuff then guys if there's so much crap out there in the world
you don't always have to single us out
and to answer tech's question "why do you americans get so mad when i criticize your government"
tech....for someone who prides himself on knowing everything there is to know about the american government your ignorant to the basic principle of US government............WE RUN THE GOVERNMENT , this ain't a dictatorship........and perhaps if more people voted here you'd see that the average citizen isn't what YOU foriegnors think it is.......god
so YOU decided that that George Bush should be president even though Al Gore had more votes??
you decided to bomb afghanistan??
YOU decided to put the "parental advisory" on explicit cd's ??
...
....
...
i think not...
the people dont decide a shit... not even a rightfull president ::)
Yes... I voted for George Bush.
Yes I thought that THE TALIBAN, and AL QUEDA should be removed by any means necessary
Although I didn't decide to put the stickers on CD's, I think it's a good idea.
Plus, couldn't you come up with something better to diss us on? Stickers on CD's? Come on... Aren't there more pressing issues in the world than the stickers on CDs? ::)
1. you did vote for bush, but did you decide that its fair for bush to be president when gore had more votes??
2. you think taliban bombing is a good idea, but face it.. you didn not decide a SHIT
3. you think that PA-stickers is a good idea, but face it.. you didn not decide a SHIT
belive me, i can drag more important issues, but i dont wanna spend my time
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all i'm going to say is i know america isn't the only 'bad' country out there........if america deserves to be panned so much and y'all are sooooo intellectual about world history let's talk about
the british
the french
the italians
japan
korea
spain(the slaughtering of aztecs in mexico, and the crusades in spain where many muslums killed innocent spanish people in church to "show them the rath of allah)
let's talk about how blacks are more racist than whites currently
let's talk about woman's lib in other countries
let's talk about aaallllllllllll the negative stuff then guys if there's so much crap out there in the world
you don't always have to single us out
and to answer tech's question "why do you americans get so mad when i criticize your government"
tech....for someone who prides himself on knowing everything there is to know about the american government your ignorant to the basic principle of US government............WE RUN THE GOVERNMENT , this ain't a dictatorship........and perhaps if more people voted here you'd see that the average citizen isn't what YOU foriegnors think it is.......god
so YOU decided that that George Bush should be president even though Al Gore had more votes??
you decided to bomb afghanistan??
YOU decided to put the "parental advisory" on explicit cd's ??
...
....
...
i think not...
the people dont decide a shit... not even a rightfull president ::)
Yes... I voted for George Bush.
Yes I thought that THE TALIBAN, and AL QUEDA should be removed by any means necessary
Although I didn't decide to put the stickers on CD's, I think it's a good idea.
Plus, couldn't you come up with something better to diss us on? Stickers on CD's? Come on... Aren't there more pressing issues in the world than the stickers on CDs? ::)
1. you did vote for bush, but did you decide that its fair for bush to be president when gore had more votes??
2. you think taliban bombing is a good idea, but face it.. you didn not decide a SHIT
3. you think that PA-stickers is a good idea, but face it.. you didn not decide a SHIT
belive me, i can drag more important issues, but i dont wanna spend my time
-
i wish Gore won..Maybe alot of the bullshit would stop.I actully thought Clinton did a pretty good job..We need a President like Roosevelt.SO anybody that can help get in there at 2004. Bush ran this country into a big ass ditch.
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so YOU decided that that George Bush should be president even though Al Gore had more votes??
you decided to bomb afghanistan??
YOU decided to put the "parental advisory" on explicit cd's ??
...
....
...
i think not...
the people dont decide a shit... not even a rightfull president ::)
1. actually yes the people DO decide, each state is like a prize and is worth a certain amount of points california the largest (54) and wyoming or alaska the smallest.......this all goes through the electora college and if you win alot of the big states you win the election.....bush was the former gov of texas (the second biggest 'prize') so ummm yeah you can seehow that effected something there and florida is the 3rd biggest and bush's brother governs that so ummmmm yeah that also effected things......alsothe NADER factor cheated gore out of electoral points in key states so that fucked him.....gore won a lot of the small states and california and the popular overall vote and would've won IFF there wasn't the electoral system....but a technicallity screwed him........i think Gore should've been pres but the electoral system (which was in the past virtually a nonfactor) was a big factor becuase of very close and historic race, so it's like whaaaaaaaaaaaat !!!!! to me saying we don't pick our pres we do it's just in a weird way.....think of it like jepordy the game show yeah you can answer all the easy questions that are worthless and answer the most ?'s but your not always going to win that way, you gotta get them daily doubles and the big questions
2. congress decides to declare war, congress is made up of the house of represenatives which is half of congress.....the house of reps have a certain amount of reps by the population of states (california being the biggest has 54 reps and wyoming has like 1) each of them are from a certain district in thier state and are suppose to be the men and women who think like the majority of the people in their district........so if congress declares a war.....guess who they're speaking for
it's not always that reps personal opinion either that he choses when he votes either....your always seeing shit in papers and crap saying house rep so and so voted yes on such and such dispite reported dislike for such and such it's a complex thing and sometimes it gets corropt when reps and senators lose touch with their states or become corropted but all and all it's pretty good way to do business
3. why should a sticker matter? i support something like that and legally it IS neccisary , do you want your child to watch nude scences when he's 10 years old?? do you want your child to hear about gun violence and drug use when they're 11......no, do you want meat that's not gone through the FDA and rated? HEEEEELLLL NO! it's all a protection devise for parents , and that's what GOV is suppose to be .....protection for its citizens
i rest my case
the people rule my country , not a dictator(s)
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i wish Gore won..Maybe alot of the bullshit would stop.I actully thought Clinton did a pretty good job..We need a President like Roosevelt.SO anybody that can help get in there at 2004. Bush ran this country into a big ass ditch.
we might get our wish yo
it looks like it might be Gore/Clinton in 2004 .....hillary clinton that is
and everyon in the media is doing polls like if it was gore and bush again who would you vote fore....and gore is looking GOOD in those polls.....also liberman is what bogged down gore last time cuz liberals thought liberman was too conservative so some of their votes went to nader i think....and if nader doesn't run it should be a better race, plus 2000 elections still had the sour taste of the clinton scandol around so that hurt gore too......so yeh if Gore accepts his nomination....Gore might be pres
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i wish Gore won..Maybe alot of the bullshit would stop.I actully thought Clinton did a pretty good job..We need a President like Roosevelt.SO anybody that can help get in there at 2004. Bush ran this country into a big ass ditch.
and everyon in the media is doing polls like if it was gore and bush again who would you vote fore....and gore is looking GOOD in those polls.....also liberman is what bogged down gore last time cuz liberals thought liberman was too conservative so some of their votes went to nader i think....and if nader doesn't run it should be a better race, plus 2000 elections still had the sour taste of the clinton scandol around so that hurt gore too......so yeh if Gore accepts his nomination....Gore might be pres
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so YOU decided that that George Bush should be president even though Al Gore had more votes??
you decided to bomb afghanistan??
YOU decided to put the "parental advisory" on explicit cd's ??
...
....
...
i think not...
the people dont decide a shit... not even a rightfull president ::)
1. actually yes the people DO decide, each state is like a prize and is worth a certain amount of points california the largest (54) and wyoming or alaska the smallest.......this all goes through the electora college and if you win alot of the big states you win the election.....bush was the former gov of texas (the second biggest 'prize') so ummm yeah you can seehow that effected something there and florida is the 3rd biggest and bush's brother governs that so ummmmm yeah that also effected things......alsothe NADER factor cheated gore out of electoral points in key states so that fucked him.....gore won a lot of the small states and california and the popular overall vote and would've won IFF there wasn't the electoral system....but a technicallity screwed him........i think Gore should've been pres but the electoral system (which was in the past virtually a nonfactor) was a big factor becuase of very close and historic race, so it's like whaaaaaaaaaaaat !!!!! to me saying we don't pick our pres we do it's just in a weird way.....think of it like jepordy the game show yeah you can answer all the easy questions that are worthless and answer the most ?'s but your not always going to win that way, you gotta get them daily doubles and the big questions
2. congress decides to declare war, congress is made up of the house of represenatives which is half of congress.....the house of reps have a certain amount of reps by the population of states (california being the biggest has 54 reps and wyoming has like 1) each of them are from a certain district in thier state and are suppose to be the men and women who think like the majority of the people in their district........so if congress declares a war.....guess who they're speaking for
it's not always that reps personal opinion either that he choses when he votes either....your always seeing shit in papers and crap saying house rep so and so voted yes on such and such dispite reported dislike for such and such it's a complex thing and sometimes it gets corropt when reps and senators lose touch with their states or become corropted but all and all it's pretty good way to do business
3. why should a sticker matter? i support something like that and legally it IS neccisary , do you want your child to watch nude scences when he's 10 years old?? do you want your child to hear about gun violence and drug use when they're 11......no, do you want meat that's not gone through the FDA and rated? HEEEEELLLL NO! it's all a protection devise for parents , and that's what GOV is suppose to be .....protection for its citizens
i rest my case
the people rule my country , not a dictator(s)
1. the fact still remains... the president with most votes didnt became president...
2. since the truthfully president didnt get his spot, technically, bush's acts does NOT represent his people.
3. rock musicians are allowed to talk bullsihit without any parental advisory.... i even remember that song "im your bitch im your lover" or something like that... it was shown on mtv and shit with no problem... so explain for me how that can be fair
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1. the fact still remains... the president with most votes didnt became president...
2. since the truthfully president didnt get his spot, technically, bush's acts does NOT represent his people.
3. rock musicians are allowed to talk bullsihit without any parental advisory.... i even remember that song "im your bitch im your lover" or something like that... it was shown on mtv and shit with no problem... so explain for me how that can be fair
1. that's not the idea, it's obvious you dont understand the electoral college. it's not set up cut and dry like that, it's obvious you don't understand it , no offense cuz i don't either but i understand it more apparently
2. yeah no shit
3. so what are you trying to say? rock stars shouln't be able to have freedom of speech? parental advisory stickers are jsut there to let parents know what their kids are listening to , just like the motion picture ratings
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Yall are street dreaming. There's no way bush will get beat next election. He'll just rally up american sentiment over 9-11, and win by a landslide.
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BTW, you said you don't understand the electoral college.. here's what you're missing.
All 50 states are important to the president... BUT! There's a hella lot more people living in California, over Rhode Island. If there were no electoral college, the presidents would never give a SH*T about Rhode Island, because they could lose every vote in that state, and it wouldn't mean crap. The reason the electoral college is in place, is so that each state has a better "weight" or whatever towards the final election. For instance, say, hypothetically, that 2/3rd's of america lived in Nevada. The presidental candidates would all just rally nevada, because the rest of the united states would be unimportant... whoever won nevada's votes would be the winner... so they'd never even visit the other 49 states. That's extreme, but that's the ideal, on an extremely watered down scale, behind the electoral college. Peace~
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BTW, with that said, I think it's all a load of crap and needs to be done away with, and left up to popular vote. Peace~
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yup i believe in one vote, one voice.
here i believe its done by having a majority in regional seats and these seats relate to having a seat in the parliament, the final majority then has power.
its a little more complicated than that though.
seems similar to the US system.
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i jumped a few chapters in my government book at school and heres what it says about the electoral college
The original version of he electoral college worked as the framers intended only for as long as George Washington was willing to seek and hold the presidency. He was twice, and uanimously, elected President. That is, in 1789 and agan in 1792, each elector cast one of his two ballot for the great Virginian.
flaws began to ppear in the syste in 1796, however. By the, political partie had begun to form. John Adams the Federalist candidate, was elected to the presidency. Thomas Jefferson , an arch-rival and Democratic-Republican, who lost to Adams by just 3 votesin the electoral ballotin, became his vice president.
the framers wre against selecting the president by eitherof the obvious ways: by Congress or by a dirct vote of the people. Early in the convention, most of the delegates favored selection by Congress. Lter nearlyall delegates came to the view that congressional selection would as hamilton said, put the presidet "too much under the legislative thumb" only a few o the framersfvored choosing the president by popular vote. nerly all agreed that that wouldlead "to tumult and disorder" the Most delegates felt, too, that the people, scttered over so wde an area, could not possibly know enough about the available candidates to make wise, informed choices. George Mason of virginia spoke for most of his colleagus at the convention: "te extent of the country rendes it impossible tha the people can have the requisite capacity to judge th respective contentions of the candidates"
After week of debat, the Framers finlly agreed on a plan first put forward by hamiltonnder it, the president was to be chosn by a special body of electors. in detail the plan provided :
1. each of the several states would have as many presidential electors as it has senators and representatives in congress
2. these electors would be chosen in each state in a manner the state legislature directed
3. the electors, meeting in their own States, would ach cast two votes-each for a diffeent person for president
4. the electoral votes from the states would beopened and counted before a joit session of congress
5. the person receiving the largest nmber of electoral votes, provided that total was a majority of all the elector, would become president
6. the person wit the second highest number of electoral votes would become vice president
7. if a tie accurred, or if no one received the votes of a majority of the electors, the president would be chosen by thehouse representatives, voting by states
8. if a tie occurred for the second spot , the vice president would be chosen by the senate
the 12th amendment
the election of 1800 produced another natable rsult the 12th amendment was added to the constitution in 1804, to make certain there would never be another such fiasco. the amendment is a lengthyone, but it made noly one major change in the electoral college system. it seperated the presidential and vice presidentail elctions : "the electors...shal name i ther ballots the person voted for as prsidet, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as vice president"
the electoral college today
here you come to one of the least understood pars of the american political process. As the people vote in the presidential election, they do not cast a vote directly for one of the contenders for the presidency. instead, they vote to elect presidential electors
the electors are chosen by popular vote in every state and on the same day everywhere, the tuesday after the first monday in november every fourth year .
the electors are chosen at lage in every state except maine. that is, they are chosen on a winnertake all basis. the presidential candidate tchnically, the slate of electo candidates nomiated by is party-receiving he largest popular vote in the state wins all of that state's electoral votes. today the names of the individual elector candidates appear on the ballot in less than a fourth of te states. in most, only the names of the presidential and vice presidential candidates are listed. they stand as "shorthand" for the elector slates
.(...then it talks about dates which arn' important for thisargument)
there is ever present threat that the winner of the popular vote wil not win the presidency. this continuing threat is largely the result of two factors. the most important is he winer take all featureof the electoral college system. in each state the winning candidae customarily receives all that states electoral votes thus, in 1992 bill clinton won arely 50 percen of the popular vote in NY, butall of that states 33 electoral votes -even though some 2.2 millon new yorkers voted for republican George Bush and aother 1.1 for Ross Perot
the other major culprit here is the way the electoal votes are distributed among the states. rmember, each state has 2 electors becuase of it's senate seats, regardless of it's population. because of them, the distribution of electoral votes does not match the facts of population and voter distribution
take the extreme case to illustrate this situation : California , the largest state, now has 54 (56 now, but this book was published in 95') electoral votes, 1 one for each 551,112 persons, basedon its 1990 population of 29,760, 021 ( it's well into 30 now and if i was never born it woulda been a clean 29,760, 020 in 1990 lol) Alaska has 3 elevtoral votes, or 1 for each 183,343 persons,with it's 1990 population of 550,043.
The popular vote winner has, in fact, failed to win the residency 3 (4 now)times : 1824, 1876, and 1888 (and now 2000) IN 1824 Andrew Jackson won the largest share (a plurality, but not a majority) of the popular votes: 151,174, or 40.3 percent of the ttal Jackson's nearest rival, john quincy adams, received 113,122 votes or 30.9% Ninety-nine of the 261 electors then voted for jackson agin more than any other candidate but far short of a majority. the election thus went to the house early in 1825, it elected adams to the presidency.
in the election of 1876 , republican candidate Rutherford B Hays received 4034311 pop votes and his democrat opponent Smuel J Tilden, won 4288, 548. Tilden received 184 electoral votes and Hayes won 185 electoral votes and so became president
then it explains like 5 pages more about the elctoral college but i think this is the most important stuff
so basically when i'm 18 and i go vote for gore (if he runs) i'm voting for a dude who will vote for him for me in the electoral college ...if the majority of californians say no we want the republican to win.... my vote goes to the republican candidate and he gets california's 56 electoral votes....but california is usually democrat so 56 point would go to gore...basically you got to win key states like california texas florida and new york who have the most votes and get the middle states like ohio and wisconsin which are the difference makers
so how Gore lost the electoral but won the majority was he won a bunch states that got 3 or 2 votes and barely lost states like texas and florida that had big