West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Real American on February 28, 2005, 02:45:52 PM
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This right here shows why I think all Western nations should stop accepting Muslim immigrants immediately. In addition, it offers proof that liberals concepts like multiculturalism and the welfare state are doomed to fail.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/27/international/europe/27dutch.html?ex=1110171600&en=d6582f891be6b650&ei=5070
By MARLISE SIMONS
Published: February 27, 2005
AMSTERDAM - Paul Hiltemann had already noticed a darkening mood in the Netherlands. He runs an agency for people wanting to emigrate and his client list had surged.
But he was still taken aback in November when a Dutch filmmaker was shot and his throat was slit, execution style, on an Amsterdam street.
In the weeks that followed, Mr. Hiltemann was inundated by e-mail messages and telephone calls. "There was a big panic," he said, "a flood of people saying they wanted to leave the country."
Leave this stable and prosperous corner of Europe? Leave this land with its generous social benefits and ample salaries, a place of fine schools, museums, sports grounds and bicycle paths, all set in a lively democracy?
The answer, increasingly, is yes. This small nation is a magnet for immigrants, but statistics suggest there is a quickening flight of the white middle class. Dutch people pulling up roots said they felt a general pessimism about their small and crowded country and about the social tensions that had grown along with the waves of newcomers, most of them Muslims."The Dutch are living in a kind of pressure cooker atmosphere," Mr. Hiltemann said.
There is more than the concern about the rising complications of absorbing newcomers, now one-tenth of the population, many of them from largely Muslim countries. Many Dutch also seem bewildered that their country, run for decades on a cozy, political consensus, now seems so tense and prickly and bent on confrontation. Those leaving have been mostly lured by large English-speaking nations like Australia, New Zealand and Canada, where they say they hope to feel less constricted.
In interviews, emigrants rarely cited a fear of militant Islam as their main reason for packing their bags. But the killing of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh, a fierce critic of fundamentalist Muslims, seems to have been a catalyst.
"Our Web site got 13,000 hits in the weeks after the van Gogh killing," said Frans Buysse, who runs an agency that handles paperwork for departing Dutch. "That's four times the normal rate."
Mr. van Gogh's killing is the only one the police have attributed to an Islamic militant, but since then they have reported finding death lists by local Islamic militants with the names of six prominent politicians. The effects still reverberate. In a recent opinion poll, 35 percent of the native Dutch questioned had negative views about Islam.
There are no precise figures on the numbers now leaving. But Canadian, Australian and New Zealand diplomats here said that while immigration papers were processed in their home capitals, embassy officials here had been swamped by inquiries in recent months.
Many who settle abroad may not appear in migration statistics, like the growing contingent of retirees who flock to warmer places. But official statistics show a trend. In 1999, nearly 30,000 native Dutch moved elsewhere, according to the Central Bureau of Statistics. For 2004, the provisional figure is close to 40,000. "It's definitely been picking up in the past five years," said Cor Kooijmans, a demographer at the bureau.
Ruud Konings, an accountant, has just sold his comfortable home in the small town of Hilvarenbeek. In March, after a year's worth of paperwork, the family will leave for Australia. The couple said the main reason was their fear for the welfare and security of their two teenage children.
"When I grew up, this place was spontaneous and free, but my kids cannot safely cycle home at night," said Mr. Konings, 49. "My son just had his fifth bicycle stolen." At school, his children and their friends feel uneasy, he added. "They're afraid of being roughed up by the gangs of foreign kids."
Sandy Sangen has applied to move to Norway with her husband and two school-age children. They want to buy a farm in what she calls "a safer, more peaceful place."
Like the Sangens and Koningses, others who are moving speak of their yearning for the open spaces, the clean air, the easygoing civility they feel they have lost. Complaints include overcrowding, endless traffic jams, overregulation. Some cite a rise in antisocial behavior and a worrying new toughness and aggression both in political debates and on the streets.
Until the killing of Pim Fortuyn, a populist anti-immigration politician, in 2002 and the more recent slaying of a teacher by a student, this generation of Dutch people could not conceive of such violence in their peaceful country.
After Mr. van Gogh's killing, angry demonstrations and fire-bombings of mosques and Muslim schools took place. In revenge, some Christian churches were attacked. Mr. Konings said he and many of his friends sensed more confrontation in the making, perhaps more violence.
"I'm a great optimist, but we're now caught in a downward spiral, economically and socially," he said. "We feel we can give our children a better start somewhere else."
Marianne and Rene Aukens, from the rural town of Brunssum, had successful careers, he as director of a local bank, she as a personnel manager. But after much thought they have applied to go to New Zealand. "In my lifetime, all the villages around here have merged, almost all the green spaces have been paved over," said Mr. Aukens, 41. "Nature is finished. There's no more silence; you hear traffic everywhere."
The saying that the Netherlands is "full up" has become a national mantra. It was used cautiously at first, because it had an overtone of being anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim. But many of those interviewed now state it flatly, like Peter Bles. He makes a long commute to a banking job in Amsterdam, but he and his wife are preparing to move to Australia.
"We found people are more polite, less stressed, less aggressive there," Mr. Bles said. "Perhaps stress has a lot to do with the lack of living space. Here we are full up."
Space is indeed at a premium here in Europe's most densely populated nation, where 16.3 million people live in an area roughly the size of Maryland. Denmark, which is slightly larger, has 5.5 million people. Dutch demographers say their country has undergone one of Europe's fastest and most far-reaching demographic shifts, with about 10 percent of the population now foreign born, a majority of them Muslims.
Blaming immigrants for many ills has become commonplace. Conservative Moroccans and Turks from rural areas are accused of disdaining the liberal Dutch ways and of making little effort to adapt. Immigrant youths now make up half the prison population. More than 40 percent of immigrants receive some form of government assistance, a source of resentment among native Dutch. Immigrants say, though, that they are widely discriminated against.
Ms. Konings said the Dutch themselves brought on some of the social frictions. The Dutch "thought that we had to adapt to the immigrants and that we had to give them handouts," she said. "We've been too lenient; now it's difficult to turn the tide."
To Mr. Hiltemann, the emigration consultant, what is remarkable is not only the surge of interest among the Dutch in leaving, but also the type of people involved. "They are successful people, I mean, urban professionals, managers, physiotherapists, computer specialists," he said. Five years ago, he said, most of his clients were farmers looking for more land.
Mr. Buysse, who employs a staff of eight to process visas, concurred. He said farmers were still emigrating as Europe cut agricultural subsidies. '"What is new," he said, "is that Dutch people who are rich or at least very comfortable are now wanting to leave the country."
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Are the Muslims really causing alot of problems with their violence and intolerance? Is that article accurate about how Dutch people feel?
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^^ yes!!! :o
*runs*
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Are the Muslims really causing alot of problems with their violence and intolerance? Is that article accurate about how Dutch people feel?
The article is pretty accurate, yeah. Muslims cause a lot of trouble in this country. I'm not being racist here, I'm just stating the facts. This country is also overpopulated and right winged people see that. Unfortunately we have a whole bunch of ignorant left winged people in this country who think we should let in as many immigrants (majority = muslim = relatively big chance of becoming criminal) as possible.
The thing is that about 70% of all criminals are not from here and the majority of them is Muslim. That is why those people create hate against themselves. And of course the Jihad is in this country too... :-\
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And of course the Jihad is in this country too... :-\
LMAO.
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And of course the Jihad is in this country too... :-\
LMAO.
Whats so funny?
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And of course the Jihad is in this country too... :-\
LMAO.
Whats so funny?
Obviously what I quoted. It's not hard to figure out "what" it is that I find funny...
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The thing is that about 70% of all criminals are not from here and the majority of them is Muslim.
Do you have proof? Facts? Statistics? Anything? Or are you just gonna post a picture of your dildo or something?
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(http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/theo_van_gogh/2-1-Theo-Van-Goghs-body.jpg)
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I never denied that crimes are committed by Muslims. Crimes are committed everywhere... by everyone. It's just when the suspect is Muslim, the media points it out. Plus, that has nothing to do with jihad.
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I never denied that crimes are committed by Muslims. Crimes are committed everywhere... by everyone. It's just when the suspect is Muslim, the media points it out. Plus, that has nothing to do with jihad.
LOL
http://rapporter.ffi.no/rapporter/2005/00376.pdf
-It has (.....) been confirmed that three members of the network trained in Kashmiri jihad camps in Pakistan, and that two members attended a training facility in Afghanistan.
-Mohammed Bouyeri probably had a more important role in the group than was first perceived. The fact that the group regularly convened in his house is an indicator that he played an important role. In addition, his profile matches those of leading operatives and coordinators of planned attacks throughout Western Europe. There are indications that Bouyeri was the "communications coordinator" of the Hofstad Network.
-His current whereabouts is unknown, but according to a Dutch intelligence official there are indications that he might have headed back to Syria. (re. the Syrian preacher Ridwan al-Issar, the alleged ideological leader of the group.)
Conclusion
Conclusions from an unclassified Norvegian report on the Van Gogh killing:
The analysis (.....) indicates that the slaying of Theo Van Gogh should be considered a terrorist attack, not by a lone fanatic, but by a member of an al-Qaida inspired Sunni Islamist ad-hoc terrorist network. For example, the modus operandi of the attack was typical of al-Qaida and its associated groups waging global jihad against the US and its allies around the world. The radical Islamist milieu the killer belonged to, the Hofstad Network, was involved in the same type of activities and "organized" itself in the same way as other al-Qaida associated or inspired terrorist networks that have been detected in Western Europe recent years. In addition, the social profiles of Bouyeri, and other members of the Hofstad Network, resemble those of incarcerated militant Islamists who have been planning attacks in European countries.
Contextual analysis of the operation in Amsterdam indicates potential motivations related to multiple contexts that could be considered relevant for Muslim immigrants to Holland, such as Dutch immigration policy and counter-terrorism efforts, the "global war on terrorism" and the invasion of Iraq, as well as increased conflict-levels in areas of political grievance and symbolic value to Islamists and Muslims in general, such as in Palestine, Chechnya and Kashmir. In addition the Van Gogh case suggests that statements by high-profile persons that are exposed in the media might be interpreted as "insults against Islam", and thus serve as partial motivation for terrorism, or at least affect the target selection of the Islamist militants, who have chosen terrorism as a strategy in the battle against the US and its allies. The murder of the filmmaker also showed the effectiveness of an assassination of a public figure in spreading fear and escalating the levels of conflict between the Dutch and immigrants to Holland, adding to a growing xenophobia, which in turn might lead to increased problems of integration, and make alienated young Muslim immigrants receptive of al-Qaida's vision of global jihad.
From a counter terrorism perspective, the concept of complex motivations, or multiple social, political and religious motivations (related to different contexts), implies that the police and intelligence services working to prevent terrorist attacks should pay careful attention to political developments beyond the geographical area they police, and be aware that Islamist terrorism might occur as a response by developments in other countries, or faraway areas of the world. There is an urgent need for systematically mapping motivational factors and "triggers", as well as mapping the various types of targets that might be attacked, the timing and the operational patterns of the terrorist cells, in order to develop effective early warning systems. In this respect one has to find out more about who the terrorists are, and the social contexts that "produce" potential terrorists. In addition it seems important, in the prosecution of terrorist suspects, to strike a balance between being firm, on the one hand, and being prudent and just on the other. This in order not to stir unnecessary anger among broader segments of the Diaspora communities and create new incentives for joining militant groups. On the political level, as much as possible should be done to reduce social and political grievances locally and internationally, that might motivate Islamist terrorists, and might be interpreted in terms of al-Qaida's ideology that Islam is under a worldwide attack by the US and its allies.
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Three members of an extremist Dutch Islamic group were arrested and deported from Portugal just before the Euro 2004 football championship in June on suspicion of planning an attack, the former head of Portugal's police force said in comments published.
The men were arrested June 11 in Oporto, one day before the northern Portuguese city hosted the opening match of the championship, Adelino Salvado told the Portuguese daily Diario de Noticias.
The Dutch interior ministry last week identified the three as belonging to the so-called Hofstad group, which has been linked to the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh earlier this month.
Salvado said he suspected the group wanted to target former prime minister Jose Manuel Barroso, who resigned in July to become the next head of the European Commission, as well as other international figures who were in Oporto for Euro 2004 opening festivities.
The three men possessed a second-hand car with Dutch licence plates which had been bought in the name of van Gogh's alleged killer, Mohammed Bouyeri, and had made daily withdrawals of small amounts of cash from a bank at the airport.
Among the three men was El Fahtni Noreddine, a Moroccan national who at one point shared a flat in Amsterdam with Bouyeri, who holds both Moroccan and Dutch citizenship, he added.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041115/1/3ojgy.html
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http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=13908&name=Terror+arrests+%27thwarted+attack%27
AMSTERDAM The largescale anti-terror operation in The Hague, Amsterdam and Amersfoort on Wednesday thwarted a planned attack in the Netherlands at the last moment, Interior Minister Johan Remkes told MPs on Thursday night.
The seven arrested suspects are allegedly linked to Mohammed B., the 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan man accused of killing Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam last week, newspaper De Telegraaf reported.
The suspected Islamic extremists are belong to the so-called "Hofstadgroep", a network centered around the 18-year-old Samir A., who was arrested in July and is accused of planning attacks against targets such as Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, the Dutch Parliament in The Hague and the Borssele nuclear power plant.
The 19-year-old Jason W. one of the two suspects arrested as Special Forces officers fired tear gas into a house in the Laak district of The Hague after a 14-hour stand-off on Wednesday was allegedly prepared to die in a suicide attack.
A farewell letter written to his mother indicates that he was prepared to die as a martyr for Jihad. The teenager who is the son of a US man and a Dutch woman is believed to have converted to radical Islam five years ago.
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http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=12198&name='Terrorist'+testament+tells+son+to+live+Jihad
He wants his newborn son to live "in the spirit of Jihad"
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=13565&name=News+in+brief%3A+Theo+van+Gogh+
The man suspected of assassinating Theo van Gogh left a letter containing texts calling for a Holy War, or Jihad
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=10715
Terror group threatens Dutch with 'Islamic earthquake'
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=8140
Dutch charity accused of funding Muslim terrorists
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=6901
Mosque a book urging Jihad, the killing of gays and the beating of women
http://framehosting.dowjonesnews.com/sample/samplestory.asp?StoryID=2004031021550002&Take=1
Dutch secret service: Young Dutch Muslims are being recruited for armed terrorism missions against Western targets
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Timothy McVeigh = White, American, Christian terrorist.
CHRISTIAN TERRORISM IS BRINGING AMERICA TO ITS DOOM!!!!
Thats the worst analogy ever.
Mcveigh didn't use Christian theology to justify his actions.
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Ey monkey,
If I collected a couple of local hooligans, looked up in an Arabic thesaraus for a nice fancy name (Emminent Sword of Allah brigade for example) and went around beating old Italians, it would be jihad to you right?
Some dumb immigrants in Dutch land commit crimes, its an international Islamic jihad conspiracy, youre laughable
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Ey monkey,
If I collected a couple of local hooligans, looked up in an Arabic thesaraus for a nice fancy name (Emminent Sword of Allah brigade for example) and went around beating old Italians, it would be jihad to you right?
Some dumb immigrants in Dutch land commit crimes, its an international Islamic jihad conspiracy, youre laughable
Stop posting, start reading.
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Ey monkey,
If I collected a couple of local hooligans, looked up in an Arabic thesaraus for a nice fancy name (Emminent Sword of Allah brigade for example) and went around beating old Italians, it would be jihad to you right?
Some dumb immigrants in Dutch land commit crimes, its an international Islamic jihad conspiracy, youre laughable
You, and Jamal, should really not deny the Jihad is in this country. You only make yourself like more of a fool than you already do.
Those articles Engel posted have been all over the news for months :-\
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Mauzip you can be married to three bitches :D
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The media just like blowing things up. This country is getting no better from all those muslims moving in, for the reasons stated above.
I'm about to leg it. Where shall we go, Mauzip? ;D
[17:11:14] [@Jome]: why is it that WCC is so big in Holland.. ??
[17:12:00] [@Jome]: 16 million people, and half of them on WCC
The only language that other half of the people in Holland speak, is turkish. They don't know any dutch, nor english.
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The media just like blowing things up. This country is getting no better from all those muslims moving in, for the reasons stated above.
I'm about to leg it. Where shall we go, Mauzip? ;D
[17:11:14] [@Jome]: why is it that WCC is so big in Holland.. ??
[17:12:00] [@Jome]: 16 million people, and half of them on WCC
The only language that other half of the people in Holland speak, is turkish. They don't know any dutch, nor english.
I'm going to the States. You should go to Iceland.
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Ey monkey,
If I collected a couple of local hooligans, looked up in an Arabic thesaraus for a nice fancy name (Emminent Sword of Allah brigade for example) and went around beating old Italians, it would be jihad to you right?
Some dumb immigrants in Dutch land commit crimes, its an international Islamic jihad conspiracy, youre laughable
You, and Jamal, should really not deny the Jihad is in this country. You only make yourself like more of a fool than you already do.
Those articles Engel posted have been all over the news for months :-\
What the fuck do u mean by Jihad in your country? Because immigrant populations have a higher tendency to commit crimes? That happens in eveyr western country. The existence of a militant group does not equal jihad, this is what u dont understand. Its not an international conspiracy, or terrorist cartel.
These people are local idiots, they spent their entire adult lives fighting and they suscribe to a particular ideology. An ideology taht is not accepted in mainstream Islam, and does not have the backing of the international muslim community. Theyre agitators, but its not jihad.
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LOL.
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That was my whole point. I don't think Mauzip understands the meaning of Jihad. He thinks any crime committed by a Muslim is a terrorist act or part of some "jihad".
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Ey monkey,
If I collected a couple of local hooligans, looked up in an Arabic thesaraus for a nice fancy name (Emminent Sword of Allah brigade for example) and went around beating old Italians, it would be jihad to you right?
Some dumb immigrants in Dutch land commit crimes, its an international Islamic jihad conspiracy, youre laughable
You, and Jamal, should really not deny the Jihad is in this country. You only make yourself like more of a fool than you already do.
Those articles Engel posted have been all over the news for months :-\
What the fuck do u mean by Jihad in your country? Because immigrant populations have a higher tendency to commit crimes? That happens in eveyr western country. The existence of a militant group does not equal jihad, this is what u dont understand. Its not an international conspiracy, or terrorist cartel.
These people are local idiots, they spent their entire adult lives fighting and they suscribe to a particular ideology. An ideology taht is not accepted in mainstream Islam, and does not have the backing of the international muslim community. Theyre agitators, but its not jihad.
Are you really that stupid or do you just act like you are?
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
how yall gonna let outsiders chase u out of ur own country...where's the patriotism???
peace
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This is Bs. Aint no1 fleeing out of holland. This message isnt right.
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This is Bs. Aint no1 fleeing out of holland. This message isnt right.
LOL!
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
how yall gonna let outsiders chase u out of ur own country...where's the patriotism???
peace
see, if it comes to a point where you feel you like it better somewhere else... why stay?
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Shook Ones get no love. I cant get run out of my neighbourhood, and youre being chased out ya country? By this international boogie man they call the Islamic Terrorist? Are YOU really this stupid?
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Shook Ones get no love. I cant get run out of my neighbourhood, and youre being chased out ya country? By this international boogie man they call the Islamic Terrorist? Are YOU really this stupid?
listen you stupid fuck...
first of all, you have no reason to judge me
secondly, i don't have political ambitions
lastly, get a job
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Shook Ones get no love. I cant get run out of my neighbourhood, and youre being chased out ya country? By this international boogie man they call the Islamic Terrorist? Are YOU really this stupid?
The Dutch government is basically chasing us out of our country by giving the Islamic community a lot of priviliges they get for reasons no one has figured out yet. You have no idea how this country works, so don't be an ignorant loser and just stay out of the discussion if you don't have anything usefull to add.
About the Muslims in this country. A lot of them suck. I know I don't politically correct and all. I even sound like a discriminating piece of shit. But guess what? I don't care. The Muslims here are being raised like they own this country. Because they get their welfare checks to pay for all their brand clothing and fancy perfumes. Yet, most of them don't even care for learning this language properly or even get a proper education. Not that they really need one, considering the states is giving them all they could possibly need.
And to awnser the question about our patriotism. This country has no real culture, so nothing to be really proud of.
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Shook Ones get no love. I cant get run out of my neighbourhood, and youre being chased out ya country? By this international boogie man they call the Islamic Terrorist? Are YOU really this stupid?
youre outnumbered by 65 year old grannies, ofcourse they cant make you leave. i bet 1000000000000Ŗ that if 50 muslims moved into your neghborhood and stated a rucus you would head for the hills.
it pisses me off that muslims cause so much trouble, especially in france, the majorit of crime is by arabs, and their taking over, have a one on one fight with one and kick his ass you will be answering to his sisters brothers aunties uncles grandad and the pets original owner.
the reason they fuck up is coz in their homeland they have strict rules to keep the fucks in order, they go to a western civilisation and the yrun a muck and ge taway with it...
this is a naive solution, but the laws imposed in their homeland should be upheld where they immigrate, death penalty for rape, jail for theft, or even lose a hand for theft... fuck em if they want to live in a different country they should obide the rules or get deported.
in sydney 16 Lebanese gang members raped a girl, some of em got 10 years other less, they think its ok to rape white women because their all sluts...
i believe this article 100%
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In a few years I'll be one of those 'thousands of Dutch' (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Are the Muslims really causing alot of problems with their violence and intolerance? Is that article accurate about how Dutch people feel?
The article is pretty accurate, yeah. Muslims cause a lot of trouble in this country. I'm not being racist here, I'm just stating the facts. This country is also overpopulated and right winged people see that. Unfortunately we have a whole bunch of ignorant left winged people in this country who think we should let in as many immigrants (majority = muslim = relatively big chance of becoming criminal) as possible.
The thing is that about 70% of all criminals are not from here and the majority of them is Muslim. That is why those people create hate against themselves. And of course the Jihad is in this country too... :-\
Mauzip, I know what you are saying but euhmm.. You cant really blame their religion, it doesnt say they should do those things, its just 90% of the immigrants that cause trouble are teeners, depents on what generation they are.
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Shook Ones get no love. I cant get run out of my neighbourhood, and youre being chased out ya country? By this international boogie man they call the Islamic Terrorist? Are YOU really this stupid?
The Dutch government is basically chasing us out of our country by giving the Islamic community a lot of priviliges they get for reasons no one has figured out yet. You have no idea how this country works, so don't be an ignorant loser and just stay out of the discussion if you don't have anything usefull to add.
About the Muslims in this country. A lot of them suck. I know I don't politically correct and all. I even sound like a discriminating piece of shit. But guess what? I don't care. The Muslims here are being raised like they own this country. Because they get their welfare checks to pay for all their brand clothing and fancy perfumes. Yet, most of them don't even care for learning this language properly or even get a proper education. Not that they really need one, considering the states is giving them all they could possibly need.
And to awnser the question about our patriotism. This country has no real culture, so nothing to be really proud of.
I wont say all of those alligations are true.. But we sure shouldnt blame the religion for this as I said before.. I guess Belgium have about the same problem but I think the really problem lays here with the Goverment not wanted to feel racist, its a very touchy spot in politics in Beligium & Netherland...
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If I collected a couple of local hooligans, looked up in an Arabic thesaraus for a nice fancy name (Emminent Sword of Allah brigade for example) and went around beating old Italians, it would be jihad to you right?
Dont trip man, we italians are known for being 90% mafiosi (but mafiosi are just like 1% of our population and 99% of us cant kill a mosquito).
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All Muslim immigration into western countries needs to stop immediately. Immigration should only exist if it benefits the country, and in the case of the Dutch it is only hurting their country.
Just wait until the Arab population gets really big, like say 30 or 40% of the population. They will start trying to enforce Islam on non Muslims the way they do in their own countries.
Wake up people.
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CWalker for president
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All Muslim immigration into western countries needs to stop immediately. Immigration should only exist if it benefits the country, and in the case of the Dutch it is only hurting their country.
Just wait until the Arab population gets really big, like say 30 or 40% of the population. They will start trying to enforce Islam on non Muslims the way they do in their own countries.
Wake up people.
I agree. Let's use the American ideals that the country's founding fathers implemented and start asking people what religion they are before they enter the country. America.... home of the free....
CWalker is a Pollack whose family barely earned their citizenship and now he's trying to show everyone how "American" he is. He doesn't see the difference between patriotism and being a scoundrel, and doesn't know anything about what this country was founded on. Cwalker, you're a chump... you deserve to be raped by an Arab Muslim, who's a Communist on top of it... that should do you well.
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Religion has nothing to do with it imo. It's all about poverty.
Here in Italy we have huge problems with Albanians and Slavs, and most of them aint muslims.
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Nah man... us Muslims are savages... we just love killing people...
Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Cortez.... all Muslim at heart. I'm telling you... those guys had to have been following Islam..
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I agree. Let's use the American ideals that the country's founding fathers implemented and start asking people what religion they are before they enter the country. America.... home of the free....
CWalker is a Pollack whose family barely earned their citizenship and now he's trying to show everyone how "American" he is. He doesn't see the difference between patriotism and being a scoundrel, and doesn't know anything about what this country was founded on. Cwalker, you're a chump... you deserve to be raped by an Arab Muslim, who's a Communist on top of it... that should do you well.
If a particular immigrant group is causing tons of problems with crime and religious extremism, why do we have to pretend that it doesn't exist? Does it make sense to let more and more of the problem continue to flood into the country? Do you think the people of the Netherlands really want their open and tolerant society to slowly become an oppressive and intolerant country like Saudi Arabia?
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Nah man... us Muslims are savages... we just love killing people...
Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Cortez.... all Muslim at heart. I'm telling you... those guys had to have been following Islam..
Watch out! I'm a mafioso.. 8)
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Nah man... us Muslims are savages... we just love killing people...
Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Cortez.... all Muslim at heart. I'm telling you... those guys had to have been following Islam..
I wouldn't say that Muslims are savages, but I would definitely say that they are racist, intolerant, and oppressive. They don't care about anyone who is not a Muslim, that is why religious minorities have no rights in Muslim countries. And I don't want them moving to western countries and bringing their intolerance with them and trying to force their ways on us the way they force there ways on people in other parts of the world.
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I agree. Let's use the American ideals that the country's founding fathers implemented and start asking people what religion they are before they enter the country. America.... home of the free....
CWalker is a Pollack whose family barely earned their citizenship and now he's trying to show everyone how "American" he is. He doesn't see the difference between patriotism and being a scoundrel, and doesn't know anything about what this country was founded on. Cwalker, you're a chump... you deserve to be raped by an Arab Muslim, who's a Communist on top of it... that should do you well.
If a particular immigrant group is causing tons of problems with crime and religious extremism, why do we have to pretend that it doesn't exist? Does it make sense to let more and more of the problem continue to flood into the country? Do you think the people of the Netherlands really want their open and tolerant society to slowly become an oppressive and intolerant country like Saudi Arabia?
Man you're wrong cause you are making it looks like muslims are the problem of the world.
Here in Italy we have no problems with muslims at all.
We got problems with Albanians and Slavs.
Some of them are muslims, but shit they robb and kill for money, not for Allah.
That's what i'm saying.
P.S. Remember Americans did concentration camps for Japanesi too. When you fight a war you hate your enemy. Now you at war with some "muslims", but dont do the mistake to judge millions of muslims. Some of them are totally anti-war, some are anti-kamikazee, some are happy Saddam's ass got served, some are really close to Roman Church and they respect "us", some of them apologized with jews when they bombed a Mosque in Turkey, etc..
You in America got problems with muslims. And it's because this war.
People in Holland got problems with muslims, and it's because wrong immigration system and poverty.
Here in Italy we got problems with other people.
In the Middle East they got problems with jews and Americans......
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Nah man... us Muslims are savages... we just love killing people...
Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Cortez.... all Muslim at heart. I'm telling you... those guys had to have been following Islam..
I wouldn't say that Muslims are savages, but I would definitely say that they are racist, intolerant, and oppressive. They don't care about anyone who is not a Muslim, that is why religious minorities have no rights in Muslim countries. And I don't want them moving to western countries and bringing their intolerance with them and trying to force their ways on us the way they force there ways on people in other parts of the world.
You're not Muslim, so why are you racist and intolerant? LOLL faggot ass get the fuck outta here with your bullshit
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Yo CWalker... what religion were the people who conquered the Americas and killed the indigenous people AKA genocide?
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One thing you retards have to ask yourself is: when did the people in the Middle East start having anti-American sentiments? Only after you guys started fucking with their countries. Before nobody gave a shit about Arabs... after oil is discovered these fucking Americans/Europeans start causing chaos in the region, setting up puppet states, invading countries for no justified reasons, etc.... CWalker, go educate yourself.
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One thing you retards have to ask yourself is: when did the people in the Middle East start having anti-American sentiments? Only after you guys started fucking with their countries. Before nobody gave a shit about Arabs... after oil is discovered these fucking Americans/Europeans start causing chaos in the region, setting up puppet states, invading countries for no justified reasons, etc.... CWalker, go educate yourself.
he's right, we did start this and i'm just glad we have the power to keep them contained to a degree
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One thing you retards have to ask yourself is: when did the people in the Middle East start having anti-American sentiments? Only after you guys started fucking with their countries. Before nobody gave a shit about Arabs... after oil is discovered these fucking Americans/Europeans start causing chaos in the region, setting up puppet states, invading countries for no justified reasons, etc.... CWalker, go educate yourself.
That's one reason, no doubt.
Reason two imo is that you dont really have good Governments there..
(not a good reason to randomly invade "your" Countries to change them, dont get me wrong)
With all the oil Iraq got it's incredible how population cant buy something to eat.
Shit they poorest than Albanians!
This makes shit extremely worse, cause when you hungry, you hate.
All the money/power in the hands of a few guys..
90% of the population poor.
They let you feel like Americans are the ones to blame.
Or jews.
But it's not always like that.
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Reason two imo is that you dont really have good Governments there..
With all the oil Iraq got it's incredible how population cant buy something to eat.
All the money/power in the hands of a few guys..
90% of the population poor.
They let you feel like Americans are the ones to blame.
1. You're right. They don't have "good" governments. If you read, you'd know why. Who put Saddam in power? Who supported Saddam? Who supports Egypt? Who supports the Saudi royal family? Who supported the Mujahideen and later the Taliban? We set up these governments that are "not good". It's all about $$$.
2. Yes, you're right again. You want to know why Iraq's population didn't have shit? Well they wanted to nationalize their oil fields, but we wouldn't let them. We got rid of that leader and gave them Saddam instead. Instead of letting them help themselves with THEIR OWN resources, we decided it's more important that we make the profits. Then they fought a war against Iran (we sold weapons to both sides, basically saying: let them blow each other to pieces). After that, their economy was in ruins. Now would be a good time to use that oil to help rebuild the country. That's when Kuwait increased its oil production (drive down the price of oil) to appease western interests, even though the countries had set up quotas. That angered Saddam because this is when he needed money the most. The U.S. publicly stated that we would not get involved, so Saddam decided to enter Kuwait. Within 2 days the U.S. was over there. There have been many reports from people in the military that have admitted to preparing for a war against Iraq because they knew they were going to invade. The government lied... surprise surprise. So after the Gulf War, the country was even more fucked up than before. We bombed electric/water facilities, buildings that stored food, etc. Use some fucked up shit to kill people for ten years after we leave. Kids have continued to die of cancer because of radiation from shit we left behind for ten years after we left. You want to know why the country couldn't feed its own people, there's your answer. We fucked their country up.
3. If you don't think Americans are to blame, I will give you a whole run-down of history proving exactly why America IS to blame. Our government knows its to blame. Our biggest mistake in the last 20 years was leaving Afghanistan after the Cold War. If you don't know why, let me know, and I'll explain this as well.
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There's a "only" missing in that sentence, sorry.
They let you feel like Americans are the ONLY ones to blame.
I agree with what you wrote tho.
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Shook Ones get no love. I cant get run out of my neighbourhood, and youre being chased out ya country? By this international boogie man they call the Islamic Terrorist? Are YOU really this stupid?
The Dutch government is basically chasing us out of our country by giving the Islamic community a lot of priviliges they get for reasons no one has figured out yet. You have no idea how this country works, so don't be an ignorant loser and just stay out of the discussion if you don't have anything usefull to add.
About the Muslims in this country. A lot of them suck. I know I don't politically correct and all. I even sound like a discriminating piece of shit. But guess what? I don't care. The Muslims here are being raised like they own this country. Because they get their welfare checks to pay for all their brand clothing and fancy perfumes. Yet, most of them don't even care for learning this language properly or even get a proper education. Not that they really need one, considering the states is giving them all they could possibly need.
And to awnser the question about our patriotism. This country has no real culture, so nothing to be really proud of.
I wont say all of those alligations are true.. But we sure shouldnt blame the religion for this as I said before.. I guess Belgium have about the same problem but I think the really problem lays here with the Goverment not wanted to feel racist, its a very touchy spot in politics in Beligium & Netherland...
I never said it's because of their religion. It's just a fact that most of those people behave like that here.
And yes, I also stated that it's because of the government.
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Lets all stick to the topic ok
In my opinion its hard to judge the Islam because most of us don't know shit about it. I do think that there is a big problem in the Netherlands because of the fact that when all the turkey's and maroks etc came to the Netherlands to do the jobs that the Dutch people wouldn't do, like all kinds of shitty jobs, afterwards we didn't want them anymore but we couldn't send them back so we just kept them here and didn't put any effort in to make them adjust to the western world. A couple of decania's later we face the problem, but this is mainly because of the so called CULTURE SHOCK; two culture's who don't understand each other.
The reason why many young islam people are criminal is because the youth lives between two cultures; At home where everything is very strict and they don't have much freedom or money, and outside where they can do what they want to do without being punished severe by the soft Dutch law system. Besides most of the immigrants don't come from the big cities like Istanbul but from villages who are still underdeveloped.
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Lets all stick to the topic ok
Everything's still on topic. See the last post before yours?
two culture's who don't understand each other
No shit. And it's their fucking job to understand ours and adept to it. Not vica versa. You live in our country, you live by our fucking rules. Get used to it, do it, or get the fuck out of here.
And as I stated before, my mom's a Greek immigrant. So I don't mind the fact that people move to the Netherlands for work.
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Lets all stick to the topic ok
Everything's still on topic. See the last post before yours?
two culture's who don't understand each other
No shit. And it's their fucking job to understand ours and adept to it. Not vica versa. You live in our country, you live by our fucking rules. Get used to it, do it, or get the fuck out of here.
And as I stated before, my mom's a Greek immigrant. So I don't mind the fact that people move to the Netherlands for work.
Wow easy tiger I'm just stating some facts nothing to get upset about.
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Lets all stick to the topic ok
In my opinion its hard to judge the Islam because most of us don't know shit about it. I do think that there is a big problem in the Netherlands because of the fact that when all the turkey's and maroks etc came to the Netherlands to do the jobs that the Dutch people wouldn't do, like all kinds of shitty jobs, afterwards we didn't want them anymore but we couldn't send them back so we just kept them here and didn't put any effort in to make them adjust to the western world. A couple of decania's later we face the problem, but this is mainly because of the so called CULTURE SHOCK; two culture's who don't understand each other.
The reason why many young islam people are criminal is because the youth lives between two cultures; At home where everything is very strict and they don't have much freedom or money, and outside where they can do what they want to do without being punished severe by the soft Dutch law system. Besides most of the immigrants don't come from the big cities like Istanbul but from villages who are still underdeveloped.
First of all I respect you for your sincerity. I just want to add a few thoughts. First of all, crime has nothing to do with Islam, Muslim countries have crime rates that are extremely lower then the crime rates in Western countries. Look it up anywhere you want on the internet. Second of all, it has nothing to do with the Muslims being from "underdeveloped" regions. Talk to a Muslim immigrant and ask them where the crime is located at in their countries, they will tell you that if crime exists, it is in the cities. In the rural, so-called "underdeveloped" regions of Muslim countries, there are tribal and Islamic laws in place, and people strictly follow and adhere to these laws in a community effort, and they are often in no need of a government to enforce these laws.
As for your other assesments about the crime being caused by poverty, etc., that could be true.
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..... And as for CWalker, you got to learn your history man, Just look at the history of America. Until the 14th century, Muslims had been ruling Spain for almost 700 years, under Muslims, Jews and Christians were able to have their own courts and follow the laws of their own Holy Books inside their regions. The Jews experienced their golden age of art and literature under Muslims. Then Queen Isabella, a Chrisitan, came down from the North, and killed anyone who said they were anything other than a Christian. Then later, a Spaniard, Christopher Columbus, another Christian, came to the Bahamas, and was quoted as saying "the only thing the Native people were good for was for being slaves." When they didn't make good slaves, he killed them all, and they shipped in "better slaves" from Africa. That is the reason the Bahamas is black today. Christians did the same thing in America. They commited genocide against the Native American's, and used African's as slaves, many of those Africans came from regions such as Senegal and Gambia which are almost 100% Muslim countries, they were forced, whipped and tortured into changing their name and their religions. Their history's were erased.
^^^^^^^ CWalker, Everything I said above is fact. You can not deny it. It is no propaganda, you can find it in your own textbooks.
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Lets all stick to the topic ok
Everything's still on topic. See the last post before yours?
two culture's who don't understand each other
No shit. And it's their fucking job to understand ours and adept to it. Not vica versa. You live in our country, you live by our fucking rules. Get used to it, do it, or get the fuck out of here.
And as I stated before, my mom's a Greek immigrant. So I don't mind the fact that people move to the Netherlands for work.
Wow easy tiger I'm just stating some facts nothing to get upset about.
If I'd get upset over the internet, I'd do it like the rest of the forum and call you a "pUnc asz biatch". But considering I have other things to worry about, I, uh, don't.
I just want to add a few thoughts. First of all, crime has nothing to do with Islam
Jesus H Christ, yes, we know. No one stated that. We know.
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But you sayin' "Muslims" all the time... don't say shit against the religion, but against the people who commit such ignoble acts.
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If you read my opinion properly you will notice that I meant things in the same content as you; I mean the reason why the culture shock is big is because POOR muslim people from underdeveloped villlages immigrate to Western Europe, and in their villages they can't do shit because it's all in one community or there ain't shit to do, plus if they do they get punnished severe. So when they come to the Netherlands they feel like they can do anything they want without being punished. I mean they laugh at the Dutch law if they steal something they will only have to go to prison for a couple of nights, if they try that shit in their home country their hand will be cut off. Now thats a big difference
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Lets all stick to the topic ok
Everything's still on topic. See the last post before yours?
two culture's who don't understand each other
No shit. And it's their fucking job to understand ours and adept to it. Not vica versa. You live in our country, you live by our fucking rules. Get used to it, do it, or get the fuck out of here.
And as I stated before, my mom's a Greek immigrant. So I don't mind the fact that people move to the Netherlands for work.
Wow easy tiger I'm just stating some facts nothing to get upset about.
If I'd get upset over the internet, I'd do it like the rest of the forum and call you a "pUnc asz biatch". But considering I have other things to worry about, I, uh, don't.
I just want to add a few thoughts. First of all, crime has nothing to do with Islam
Jesus H Christ, yes, we know. No one stated that. We know.
Yo chill man you take this shit way too seriously haha
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Yo chill man you take this shit way too seriously haha
My God, how blind are some of you people?
If I'd get upset over the internet, I'd do it like the rest of the forum and call you a "pUnc asz biatch". But considering I have other things to worry about, I, uh, don't.
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Yo chill man you take this shit way too seriously haha
My God, how blind are some of you people?
If I'd get upset over the internet, I'd do it like the rest of the forum and call you a "pUnc asz biatch". But considering I have other things to worry about, I, uh, don't.
Again you need to chill out, why are you so mad? haha
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Yo chill man you take this shit way too seriously haha
My God, how blind are some of you people?
If I'd get upset over the internet, I'd do it like the rest of the forum and call you a "pUnc asz biatch". But considering I have other things to worry about, I, uh, don't.
Again you need to chill out, why are you so mad? haha
I rest my fucking case.
Shit, some people.
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Go eat some cheese and chill the fuck out...
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man I wanna leave this fucked up country... you can't mix two cultures who don't understand each other
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I agree with some of the shit that have been said, i'm not racist but i think immigrants should stay in their country, or immigrate in country that looks more like they own than to come in occident. They come here and we are very tolerant so they dont integrate themselves in our culture, they do the same shit they were doing in their country, and it's always us who have to bow to their conditions.
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This thread is BS. I live in holland and i can say this is not true.
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so sad