West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: BowDown on September 13, 2005, 08:05:20 PM
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Who do you think is the greatest as far as skills go... we're not talking the best rap artist, but just pure skills on the mic.... it doesn't matter if they've never even dropped a hot album, if they've never really made a name for themselves on the mainstream, or if they fell off during their career... whatever... which MC (in his prime) owns or owned all others when it comes to skills on the mic?
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Just based on skills? Rakim, Biggie and Nas are still very close to the top and I'd have The Last Emperor and Saigon up there too, I think those two can be as good as anyone.
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And of course...Lil' Kim
(http://tinypic.com/dnlstv.jpg)
(http://tinypic.com/dnlsu9.jpg)
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Just based on skills? Rakim, Biggie and Nas are still very close to the top and I'd have The Last Emperor and Saigon up there too, I think those two can be as good as anyone.
no way on earth could biggie EVER be considered the G.O.A.T.
there are so many more deserving MC's out there
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no way on earth could biggie EVER be considered the G.O.A.T.
there are so many more deserving MC's out there
This is just based on skills so you can't come back with the usual shit about "he only had two albums". Skill-wise he's top ten easy.
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no way on earth could biggie EVER be considered the G.O.A.T.
there are so many more deserving MC's out there
This is just based on skills so you can't come back with the usual shit about "he only had two albums". Skill-wise he's top ten easy.
I agree IMO Biggie should be top 5......I never heard anyone tell stories and flow as good as Life After Death...Ready to Die was classic, but somethin about LAD was just crazy.....I dont think anybody ever rapped that good IMO
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Ras Kass
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im not hatin on biggie, i mean i do like some of his songs, but i just cant understand how people think hes so good. His rhyme schemes always seemed simple as well as his flow and he didnt have any of the poeticness that pac had. I just dont see it. I dunno what it is but i never could feel him that much, i havent even bothered to buy his albums...maybe thats the problem?
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Supernat should be up there based on skill.
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peep my sig
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peep my sig
Your sig says best "alive"... so you consider him the greatest MC ever?
yep. it took me a couple of years to finally like nas but yeah this dude is definatly the best. he's just not an artist you can just pick up & get into (especially at the age i was at)
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redman, biggie or eminem
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Nas Biggie Rakim (Top 3, in no particular order)
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Supernat should be up there based on skill.
Yup, And Nas too, IMO
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In my opinion,these are the most talented mc's to ever rap on the mic:Big L, Saigon, Masta Killa, GZA, Chace Infinite, Kool G Rap & Nas.
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nas rakim and biggie....
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Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
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people seem to get mixed up ras kass yeah lyrically but never overall same with em just cos someone good at 1 thing doesnt make them the best
id say nas rakim when it come to overall ability
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1. Nas
2. Rakim
3. Biggie
Runner up: Ice Cube
The obvious... ;D I just never really felt Big L and GZA that much. I'm guessing its about easy listening... They're too complex to just put on and chill to.
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The obvious... ;D I just never really felt Big L and GZA that much. I'm guessing its about easy listening... They're too complex to just put on and chill to.
GZA I can see, but Big L consists of a bunch of punchlines and doubles ("gat spit", "wack shit", "backflip", "attack kids" etc)...donīt get me wrong, he was a fucking hell of an MC and the best ever at that style, but I donīt see how it should be "too complex"
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The obvious... ;D I just never really felt Big L and GZA that much. I'm guessing its about easy listening... They're too complex to just put on and chill to.
GZA I can see, but Big L consists of a bunch of punchlines and doubles ("gat spit", "wack shit", "backflip", "attack kids" etc)...donīt get me wrong, he was a fucking hell of an MC and the best ever at that style, but I donīt see how it should be "too complex"
Oh well, the complexity mainly goes for GZA.. You really gotta pay close attention to what he's saying to really enjoy the music. I just don't always feel like listening that closely. A similar thing goes for Big L, he's not the type of rapper I'd put on for any mood. You really got to be in the right mood and right situation for listening to his music. Not really that complex, but still, not a rapper to just chill to.
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lik kim??? ehh... but i love big l, i dunno if hes top 10, but i gotta listen to some of his shit again, its fuckin sick
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lik kim??? ehh...
I think Knuckles was being sarcastic :o
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lik kim??? ehh...
I think Knuckles was being sarcastic :o
She got 5 mics tho... What the fuck? Either she must've done something amazing, or The Source has just reached an all time low. She's probably just good at giving head to reviewers.
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^^ yeah, she got 5 mics, THATīS why Knuckles came up with it...I donīt take the Source serious, havenīt for years
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apart from some of the obvious that have already been mentined, Poetic (of GD).
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The sig explains it
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WTF?? this thread is confusing are we talking lyrical skill or who's got the illest flow on the mic
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WTF?? this thread is confusing are we talking lyrical skill or who's got the illest flow on the mic
Overall emceeing skills.
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
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My top ten in order:
1. 2Pac
2. Eminem
3. Nas
4. Notorious B.I.G.
5. Krs-One
6. Jay-Z
7. Big L
8. Big Pun
9. LL Cool J
10. Scarface
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2pac
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
i do disagree, but whatever. I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow, neither do I think copying pseudo-knowledge from a paranoid, racist book full of no-back-up assumptions and making a paranoid, racist song without flow and mostly without rhymes out of it an impressive manifestation of "lyrical abilities"...thatīs my opinion on it, Iīm not hating or anything
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
i do disagree, but whatever. I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow, neither do I think copying pseudo-knowledge from a paranoid, racist book full of no-back-up assumptions and making a paranoid, racist song without flow and mostly without rhymes out of it an impressive manifestation of "lyrical abilities"...thatīs my opinion on it, Iīm not hating or anything
LOL.. you're an idiot man.
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
i do disagree, but whatever. I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow, neither do I think copying pseudo-knowledge from a paranoid, racist book full of no-back-up assumptions and making a paranoid, racist song without flow and mostly without rhymes out of it an impressive manifestation of "lyrical abilities"...thatīs my opinion on it, Iīm not hating or anything
Just because he did Nature of The Threat and it being racist still doesn't diminish his skills on the mic. And just cause he believes in something through a book does not necesarilly mean he copied. So whenever a rapper makes a refrence to the bible or even a book it mean he "copied". You don't like The Nature Of The Threat and think it's racist, get over it.
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
i do disagree, but whatever. I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow, neither do I think copying pseudo-knowledge from a paranoid, racist book full of no-back-up assumptions and making a paranoid, racist song without flow and mostly without rhymes out of it an impressive manifestation of "lyrical abilities"...thatīs my opinion on it, Iīm not hating or anything
Just because he did Nature of The Threat and it being racist still doesn't diminish his skills on the mic. And just cause he believes in something through a book does not necesarally mean he copied. So whenever a rapper makes a refrence to the bible or even a book it mean he "copied". You don't like The Nature Of The Threat and think it's racist, get over it.
get over me not liking Ras Kass then...itīs not "references", itīs a synopsis of a book, more or less...and if he rapped like Rakim apart from "NOTT" I wouldnīt say it diminishes his skills...
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Biggie, Eminem, Redman, Ras Kass, and if Papoose releases an album not just talking about guns and crack, he will be up there as well.
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
i do disagree, but whatever. I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow, neither do I think copying pseudo-knowledge from a paranoid, racist book full of no-back-up assumptions and making a paranoid, racist song without flow and mostly without rhymes out of it an impressive manifestation of "lyrical abilities"...thatīs my opinion on it, Iīm not hating or anything
Just because he did Nature of The Threat and it being racist still doesn't diminish his skills on the mic. And just cause he believes in something through a book does not necesarally mean he copied. So whenever a rapper makes a refrence to the bible or even a book it mean he "copied". You don't like The Nature Of The Threat and think it's racist, get over it.
get over me not liking Ras Kass then...itīs not "references", itīs a synopsis of a book, more or less...and if he rapped like Rakim apart from "NOTT" I wouldnīt say it diminishes his skills...
Don't really care that you don't like Ras Kass but you are hating on him.
I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow
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Rakim, Ras Kass, and 92-95, 99 kurupt. I guessing when u guys say skills you guys are talking about battle capabilites, multi's, wordplay, and punchlines. Xzibit and several underground west coast mcs I believe can go here as well. I would like to say kool g rap, but I never heard any of his music.
Ras Kass
Fuck no
overall my standard reply is Nas, but how many times have we had this thread anyways....
^ How can u deny his lyrical abilities. He is easily one of the greatest mc's ever just based on his skills. You may disagree, but fuck no. ::)
i do disagree, but whatever. I had the Ras Kass discussion several times already and I will never consider "my secular metaphysical theology is fatal" a genius line just because he used three big words and sacrificed any kind of flow, neither do I think copying pseudo-knowledge from a paranoid, racist book full of no-back-up assumptions and making a paranoid, racist song without flow and mostly without rhymes out of it an impressive manifestation of "lyrical abilities"...thatīs my opinion on it, Iīm not hating or anything
It's your opinion and while there are some inaccuries in the song, you make it sound like the whole song is inaccurate when they were alot truths in it. Second if u read the verses to the nature of the threat, you would that song is very LYRICAL with rhymes, multis, and wordplay. The fact he did this with an EXTREMELY difficult subject has to be ADMIRE. The song is not perfect, but it is far from what u said about it. Third you are overexxagerating on ALOT of things about ras kass which I believe stems from your disagreement with the song nature of the threat. Whatever though, I am not attacking and I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I am done with this subject matter.
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You don't have to like his music, you don't have to agree with what he says, and you can argue that Ras Kass may not be the greatest rapper in any sense of the word... but to say that he doesn't have lyrical skill is just hating and not giving credit where it's due.
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Why do people still insist that Pac is a good MC?
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Id say Nas, if were just talking about skill.
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Why do people still insist that Pac is a good MC?
Because he was ::)
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Why do people still insist that Pac is a good MC?
Pac was an excellent MC. Not the best MC ever, but he excelled in most aspects of what makes a great MC.
Lyrical technique - probably the category he was weakest in, but he could definatly be lyrical at times. I think he wanted people to hear his message more then anything else so he chose to keep his lyricism simple and straight forward.
Flow - He could most definatly flow. He didnt have the best flow of all time but he's probably top 10 in this department.
Mic presence - He was second to NONE in this category. Dude's mic presence was UNREAL.
Charisma - Second to none in this category as well. By far the most charismatic MC of all time.
Body of work - Easily the most proflic songwriter and rap artist of all time, and id say his body of work is pretty much unrivaled. There's only a handful of other MC's that can argue as having a better body of work overall then Pac.
Overall influence - Does this even need a comment??
As an MC, Pac is top 10 all time. As an overall hip hop artist, he is GOAT.
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Why do people still insist that Pac is a good MC?
Pac was an excellent MC. Not the best MC ever, but he excelled in most aspects of what makes a great MC.
Lyrical technique - probably the category he was weakest in, but he could definatly be lyrical at times. I think he wanted people to hear his message more then anything else so he chose to keep his lyricism simple and straight forward.
Flow - He could most definatly flow. He didnt have the best flow of all time but he's probably top 10 in this department.
Mic presence - He was second to NONE in this category. Dude's mic presence was UNREAL.
Charisma - Second to none in this category as well. By far the most charismatic MC of all time.
Body of work - Easily the most proflic songwriter and rap artist of all time, and id say his body of work is pretty much unrivaled. There's only a handful of other MC's that can argue as having a better body of work overall then Pac.
Overall influence - Does this even need a comment??
As an MC, Pac is top 10 all time. As an overall artist, he is GOAT.
Thanx 4 breaking it down 4 the haters ;)
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Why do people still insist that Pac is a good MC?
Pac was an excellent MC. Not the best MC ever, but he excelled in most aspects of what makes a great MC.
Lyrical technique - probably the category he was weakest in, but he could definatly be lyrical at times. I think he wanted people to hear his message more then anything else so he chose to keep his lyricism simple and straight forward.
Flow - He could most definatly flow. He didnt have the best flow of all time but he's probably top 10 in this department.
Mic presence - He was second to NONE in this category. Dude's mic presence was UNREAL.
Charisma - Second to none in this category as well. By far the most charismatic MC of all time.
Body of work - Easily the most proflic songwriter and rap artist of all time, and id say his body of work is pretty much unrivaled. There's only a handful of other MC's that can argue as having a better body of work overall then Pac.
Overall influence - Does this even need a comment??
As an MC, Pac is top 10 all time. As an overall artist, he is GOAT.
Thanx 4 breaking it down 4 the haters ;)
My pleasure :D
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Body of work - Easily the most proflic songwriter and rap artist of all time, and id say his body of work is pretty much unrivaled. There's only a handful of other MC's that can argue as having a better body of work overall then Pac.
Nasir Jones
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Lyrical Technique and Flow are the most important aspect of being an MC. Sure his songs are great but they're not MC tracks.
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Lyrical Technique and Flow are the most important aspect of being an MC. Sure his songs are great but they're not MC tracks.
Content > flow and lyrical technique
You can have the sickest flow in the world with all the lyrical technique, but if you aint saying shit then it dont mean anything. Songwriting ability and content are the most important thing in most other kinds of music, dont see why it should be any different in hip hop.
Pac is the greatest songwriter in hip hop history.
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Yeah i know what you mean about song writing but isnt the whole point of best MC just about flow and technique.
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Yeah i know what you mean about song writing but isnt the whole point of best MC just about flow and technique.
He didn't say the best, he said one of the best. 2Pac isn't the greatest but he definetly is in the top tier.
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I just meant generally.
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(http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/news/images/c/Camron/sq-camron-daydream.roc.jpg)
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2314/goat1gm.jpg)
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(http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/news/images/c/Camron/sq-camron-daydream.roc.jpg)
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2314/goat1gm.jpg)
GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.
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Kain stop wasting my precious hard drive.
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last thing I hope Iīll say: quote me on Ras Kass not having lyrical skills. He does have some, but theyīre highly overrated because he writes with a dictionary up his ass, thatīs my opinion on it.
I think Ras Kass is a fool for his paranoid opinions, yes. I think a lot of people are impressed by his ostentatiously complicated rhyming, yes. But Iīm not "hating", I even listen to him...eg, I really like Diamond Dīs "Soul On Ice" remix (one of the few well-produced Ras Kass songs) and I got myself an OG copy of that album from E-Bay and I paid enough for it. Heīs interesting at times, but heīs also good at saying some dumb shit
Originally I said "fuck no" because he was mentioned as the greatest MC ever. If somebody said O.C. or Bumpy Knuckles in that context I could say "fuck no" too and I like them both
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GOAT: All around: Jay - Z...most lyrical..Nas.
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props to Kill for tellin the truth on ras kass without lettin the 'respected big word throwin underground mc'-status make him ignore the obvious.
Ras Kass fans always refer to "his undeniable unfuckwitable lyrical skills" in general, but fail to get specific cause there's no backing up these claims with examples.
Don't consider him one of the greatest just cause you heard he is. He has some lyrical skill, no doubt, but it's far from superior. ecmee's are not supposed to write poems but LYRICS, to songs, that are flowable, on beat. It's not random that complex rhyme schemes are appreciated by hiphop listeners, it's supposed to support the flow. I don't see how the way Ras Kass' structures his rhymes supports his flow.
as for the content, he is a dude who can phrase things, properly unlike some other rappers, but you also need to know how to structure what you say to get the point across and convince people. He horribly failed to do that in 'nature of the threat' (pretending his audience is of decent intelligence and halfway cirtical, I know in reality alot of fans were amazed, simply because they wanted to be).
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Nas & Jay gotta be in the running
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BIG L without a doubt
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Kurupt is def. one of my favorite lyricists ever, he always comes with some tight lyrics...
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props to Kill for tellin the truth on ras kass without lettin the 'respected big word throwin underground mc'-status make him ignore the obvious.
Ras Kass fans always refer to "his undeniable unfuckwitable lyrical skills" in general, but fail to get specific cause there's no backing up these claims with examples.
Don't consider him one of the greatest just cause you heard he is. He has some lyrical skill, no doubt, but it's far from superior. ecmee's are not supposed to write poems but LYRICS, to songs, that are flowable, on beat. It's not random that complex rhyme schemes are appreciated by hiphop listeners, it's supposed to support the flow. I don't see how the way Ras Kass' structures his rhymes supports his flow.
as for the content, he is a dude who can phrase things, properly unlike some other rappers, but you also need to know how to structure what you say to get the point across and convince people. He horribly failed to do that in 'nature of the threat' (pretending his audience is of decent intelligence and halfway cirtical, I know in reality alot of fans were amazed, simply because they wanted to be).
No specific claims? ::) such as what...actual proof of his "undeniable unfuckwitable lyrical skills"? Ever heard of Soul on Ice or Van Gogh? u want me to post verses to get it through your thick skull that ras kas is easily one fo the greatest lyricists ever? Here I make it simple for you: go to www.ohhla.com (http://www.ohhla.com)
Most likely you are another person hating on ras kass because of the song 'nature of the threat'. Get a life already and stop crying. Fact is: Ras Kass is EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. enuff said.
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Lyrical - Gza, Talib, Mos Def and Nas
General MC-ing - Andre 3000, Biggie and Pac
Flow - Snoop Dogg
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u want me to post verses to get it through your thick skull that ras kas is easily one fo the greatest lyricists ever?
exactly, and thanks for proving my point. You listing his albums, wow that's specific right there.
you tell me to get a life ? who's the one cryin here ? lol
show me how what I said is wrong or keep quiet, callin me a hater without arguments makes you look like the dickrider you probably are.
Like I said he does have lyrical skill but it's not as great as peeps like you make it out to be. Great lyrics enable a good emcee to have a great flow when he spits them.
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ill take biggies or nasses flow over snoops any day
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props to Kill for tellin the truth on ras kass without lettin the 'respected big word throwin underground mc'-status make him ignore the obvious.
Ras Kass fans always refer to "his undeniable unfuckwitable lyrical skills" in general, but fail to get specific cause there's no backing up these claims with examples.
Don't consider him one of the greatest just cause you heard he is. He has some lyrical skill, no doubt, but it's far from superior. ecmee's are not supposed to write poems but LYRICS, to songs, that are flowable, on beat. It's not random that complex rhyme schemes are appreciated by hiphop listeners, it's supposed to support the flow. I don't see how the way Ras Kass' structures his rhymes supports his flow.
as for the content, he is a dude who can phrase things, properly unlike some other rappers, but you also need to know how to structure what you say to get the point across and convince people. He horribly failed to do that in 'nature of the threat' (pretending his audience is of decent intelligence and halfway cirtical, I know in reality alot of fans were amazed, simply because they wanted to be).
No specific claims? ::) such as what...actual proof of his "undeniable unfuckwitable lyrical skills"? Ever heard of Soul on Ice or Van Gogh? u want me to post verses to get it through your thick skull that ras kas is easily one fo the greatest lyricists ever? Here I make it simple for you: go to www.ohhla.com (http://www.ohhla.com)
Most likely you are another person hating on ras kass because of the song 'nature of the threat'. Get a life already and stop crying. Fact is: Ras Kass is EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. enuff said.
lol
1. linking people to ohhla is not making it easy for them, itīs making it easy for yourself
2. "Get a life", "you just hate because you donīt like īNature of the Threatī" and "stop crying", what a great way of making a point. Itīs slightly ambiguous that you Ras Kass "fans" (and "fan" is the euphemistic way of putting it) talk about "crying" and "hating" when somebody says heīs got some lyrical skills (which not a single person in this thread denied), but is not all that because his flow and delivery are mediocre and his oh so complex vocabulary exacerbates that. Thatīs what I call telling your opinion.
You on the other hand, you made a statement the gist to which is that Razzy is EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever, because of his lyrics you can find on ohhla. Great. What Nyasin asked for (and what I think you should be asked for) was that you show what is great about his lyrics and hence back up your claim, not that you tell us where to find those lyrics. We all know about ohhla
And what kind of attempt at what kind of thing is "have you ever heard of Soul On Ice or Van Gogh"...we just stated our opinions based on Rasī work, so itīs rather strange you ask us if we know it. Me, I paid like $30 for Soul On Ice and I already quoted "On Earth as it Is...", which served as another statement for somebody to call me a hater cause I said the opening line wasnīt genius.
NOW, post a lyric and show whatīs so great about it (nobody denied the vocab thing, I just think everybody can use a dictionary). Please take into account that flow does play a role in emceeing. That would be making your point. Linking people to ohhla and telling them to get a life is the very easy way out
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Planet Asia, or Tash
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Planet Asia, or Tash
fuck no lol
no, theyīre good too, but my hating ass still makes me wonder how you think theyīre GOAT...
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2pac and the big boss of new york Nas
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u ask me to post some lyrics to back my claim... cool no problem. Now with these verses that I just posted u asked me what makes thems so great...a fair amount of mc's can battle rap pretty well having subject matter and they do this combination pretty well. A few examples of mc'c like this are common, talib kweli, and xzibit. Ras Kass on the other hand not only does this, but he takes its to the next level. His lyrics are loaded with wordplay, punchlines, and multi's(read the verses below). The subject matter he covers are extremely deep and versatile drawing in political, social, religious, and economic ideas. Kill, you take about his flow being bad I disagree it is not smooth as ras, but it is not as bad as u make it to be. Delivery, I don't know what u are talking about because he has a very charismatic delivery and usually changes it up from real fast to normal pace. I will post a few more verses shortly.
So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape
I'm pressing California license plate
For niggas in all 50 fucking states
But its biting me and fighting me
Inviting me to rhyme I can't hold it back
I'm lookin' for the line
Takin' off my lamb skin, Marc Buchanan
Cause I'm a make you see L.A. (U.C.L.A.) like Ed O'Bannon
Nigga come in peace and brothers can kick it
But you ain't gonna walk me streets
When back east you sellin' wolf tickets
Reciprocate the player hatin'
Bring the bullshit to you
Going through yo coast, like the Green Gar GNU
Who said no is good gnews
But gniggas is gnot gnowing about the gnext shit that I be flowin'
So don't represent at my expense
It's too expensive
The first and last line of my definse is my sentence
You got causght off the coast of the Pacific Ocean
Found face down floatin'
With yo' fuckin' neck broken
I walk the planet and create tremors
If nnuttin' else here's all you need to remember
LLA'Y LLA KCUF for all you backwards niggas
Pschologically, we grapple an MC
Like Gracie at the UFC so place me in your octagon
Coward on mix tapes and interviews, I be hearing you
Certain dissiden'ts dis from a distance
Disresect and discriminate
Bitch I laminate that ass
And wear it at the New Music Seminar for a badge
Mash or get twisted
Dem gwan front like Rosa Parks
But them marks is broke wristed (bytch)
YOu got superiority complex
Based on old statisitics, now listen
Respect due to the pioneers
But what you burrogh did in 83'
Is ancient history brah'
So why these niggas actin' like
Since they live in the state
That rap originates
They automatically, all time greats?
It takes classic material to phat shit
Feeling like a cock, cause I be talking to a burning bush
But I'm not knowing till I fornicated with the hoe and
caught the claps so, my first communion consists of
bread and wine and dioxycill in one-hundred milligram capsules
Let the commandments begin again
Cause just like Moses on Mount Sinai, I broke all ten
For the believing, in the evening, when I covet my neighbors wife
I do dirt and get works to reap life, victimize
and give us this day to make our daily bread
Cause if I'm broke I'm serving cavvy in Bethlehem
Or selling my soul to Satan, six figure record deal
protection's my religious denomination, B.C.
I be the coming like when Mary's water broke
So let there be light, so niggaz can see I rock mics religiously
Those who believe ye shall receive
But non-believers, you niggaz doubt my existence like agnostics
The hostile gospel, I apostle, with epistles from speaking in tongues,
but God sewed up and gave his only begotten Son
to set it on niggaz, blowing backwards bastards to Kingdom Come
And knowing the Judas in my crew
So do unto others before they do unto you
Like Rastas heads be dreadin
Phoenetic armageddeon (On Earth, As It Is In Heaven)
-
I hit the planet like a plague
The Book of Revelations red dragon with ten horns and seven heads
and seven crowns skills concealed until the Seventh Seal revealed
to fulfill prophecy
From B.C. to AC/DC radio receivers
The messiah comes back igniting the fever in the rap world game
(The hit after) The three headed raptor, is after
You hear the HemisFear trinity raps rap to you Babylon fires
Cause thou shalt not worship false idols
Just like David guillotined Philistines even God is homicidal
Fucking these kids like catholic priests after mass
Pubic hair of lamb's wool, and feet of burned brass
That I can put up in your platinum ass son
Instead I arrive the Golden Child, every knee shall bow
when the divine styler is speaking in parables
Like old baptist churches I'm getting old bitches hysterical
HALLELUJAH! Praise be to my medula oblongota
I blew God and not another nigga hotter, believe that Meshach
The hip-hop martyr who sacrificed and gave my life
But got 4Pac, so I'm livin the Thug Life in the afterlife
Then I be walking through the pearly gates
with an infared scope ten millimeter heater
Cuz if my name ain't in the Book of Life I'm snuffing St. Peter
Drinking the blood of Jesus Christ and pissing holy water
no QUESTION who can come cleaner
M-P-C plus M-I-C equals holy B-I-B-L-E to me
Matrimony is getting head but I refuse to break bread
with Jezebels, my management already gets twenty percent
so fuck tieing, go to Hell
I'd rather continue backsliding
You're not from the tribe of Judah, so why you lying?
Come watch the Zion, I'm signifying
the next shit to wreck shit and see the Exodus
I'm sporting trippled down rain gear.
Dumping on flying rain deer
And that overweight queer with the red and white sleeping apparrel.
Sliding down the chimneys, but staring down this double barrel.
I'm putting Santa on alphabet-i-cal med-i-cal.
It's survival of the fittest, as the milineum approaches.
By then the only existing life on Earth is real niggaz and roaches.
But see,
I'm colder than nuclear winters, so concoct the con-tender.
I'm make a nigga change agenda.
Change gender. Change men ta
Feminine. Women in masculine genetalia.
Seasons beatings til the next Saturnalia.
Ain't no competing. Defeating all persons in paraphenalia.
Compel me to inhale the aroma.
"I smell.. I smell.. I smell PUSSY!!!"
My nigga could use some heart like a fucking organ donor.
And conflict? Whenever you plan it, I'm a split it like the equator.
My Sanskrit box n' liquid nitrogen strike the mics colder than polar.
I'm like "Wonder Twins Activate!": pimp in the form of icy boulder.
Missed assist sister. Fool, I'll make your scrotum blister.
Fool, if you ready to be the man then I'm a hit ya
Like Baul Mixler: the ideal.
I'm the rhyming Simon Phoenix with that "murder, death, kill."
You got me all fucked up. I'm the abominable flow-man.
Kiss ya ass goodbye. Your record deal was standing under missle toe.
And!! I'm Mandingo. My cultural experiences doesn't include Kris
Kringle.
Celebrating Satan
No, sorry: Santa.
It continues to be a mind boggler
When black people be picking shit off the ground
and eating it like a toddler.
I shoot the gift like Kwanzaa.
That holiday is pagan. 626 like Mazda
And a billion bucks of fuck
That's bringing up the slack in the gross national product.
I guaduct. My mind avalanches expressions
And from papas erection and mama'sC-section.
Before nore plant contraception conception.
The only exception was the emaculate deception.
Cause contrary to what my bereaved mother believes,
Jesus was concieved by a mitocondria weave.
I leave gagreen when I slang these below zero,
So niggaz better bring more "Heat" than Al Pacino and Robert De Niro.
Lyrically, I smoke whoever it may concern
Even wearing a 21 milligram patch of Niccoderm
Been broke before; ain't nuttin new
But ain't nuttin never knew me not to say 'fuck you'
So had my nuts not grew - I'd still hang in the streets
with lil' niggaz who still bang just to eat
Bang with the heat - the waterproof spit blazes
to give y'all niggaz the business like the yellow pages
Enter the dark ages, enter and spark stage
For whatever wages, until I'm famous
for resurrecting our cave language
And for saying, "Same shit, different toilet..."
The game ain't about who talented
It's about who soundscannin
now them same clowns maddened (peep game)
Go figure, lyricist of the year is a white boy
And the greatest golfer; a confused nigga
-
Also kill u talk about rask kass using big words and trying to sound complex and intelligent? That's bullshit. If anything that should go to canibus using his huge vocabulary and yet talking about nothing. Plus sometimes canibus using those huge vocabs as senseless muliti's. As far as me using www.ohhla.com as a easy way out. No it is just that ras kass has too many great verses to post so u might as well go and browse there. Regarding about buying his albums I couldn't tell because I would think anyone with half a brain who has those albums will see he is EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. The verses I posted are further proof and I stand by my comments. I would like to see your list of mc's who u think has better lyrical skills than rassy kassy.
I pop my collar, pop pistols, and pop ecstasy
Boricuas call me Poppi when they pop they pussy
Used to pop-lock and lock and watch
Pop locks and burglarize spots
Pop wheelies on the red and chrome Huffy
Graduated to Suzukis - hot soda pop or pop bottles at Sky Sushi
Now ask me what's poppin; most likely ya collar bone
Ever had that feelin where ya by yourself and your not alone
With Big Brother, and Big Brother see you
I'm hard-headed, my dick look like R2-D2
Like Mini-Me too - speed through in the V-1-2
C-Arson style, know how we do
All money is legal, dead pres and green eagles
You funny style like Bernie Mac, rappin like Beanie Sigel
Golden Child of the west, don't know how to act though
Kicked off the Up In Smoke tour for scrappin with Death Row
Extraterrestrial poet, my pen stroke is grotesque
Rugged nigga, abrasive to any fo'flesh
So let's paint a thousand words worth a picture
Panoramic though, more esoteric than hieroglyphs and scriptures
And chemical mixtures, spit your's, not just kick words
Spit swords when we joust from the mouth dogg
Heard he got the hottest shit out, but Titanic emcees
Somehow manage to freeze
Fracture your flows so bandage your steez, no royalties
Subtract his mathematics like I was droppin' satanic degrees
Long time no see chico, still eatin' pussy at the Nico? (ha haaa)
I'm screamin' "Power to the people"
Most times, genius is misunderstood, but understand
You stand under unstable tables of foundation
My true occupation, dissemination of information
Usin' both sides of the brain, and I ain't complacent
Complain when I speak, fuck Priority Records
Like Prince, I'm writin' "slave" on my cheek, cause my kids gotta eat
Meanwhile A&R's sniffin' coke, gettin' kickbacks, fuck that
My written's like Christ wit a cross on his back
I'll breathe a total Black experience on a track
What use to be hot was what a emcee said
Now Hip-Hop don't respect you unless you platinum or dead
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
I'm like Illmatic, meets the Good Will Huntin'
Vocal innovator, be equal to or greater
Givin' people levels to digest the data
Cause you can't teach algebra to first graders
I'll school a hustler, about the Sixteen Crucified Saviors
Chrishna of India was Black, Quexalcote of Mexico, Black
Buddha was Black, actual facts
But niggaz only wanna know about money, pussy, and crack
I practiced building this strong rap track, and that's that
Phat rap, y'all keepin' it real, well that's wack
My rap snap torso, and crack back
Doin' this, that and the third
Givin' you my ear like Van Gogh, nigga, ya heard
Went to New York state, pushin' rhymes like weight
And watch some of these rap niggaz hate (what in the homo)
But its all love, Ice Cube did it, 2pac did it
And no matter what, I'ma die shittin', motherfucker
Josh Petell wrote *"The Disenchanted Hero"*
Hell no
-
This goes to you as well Niyasin.
-
ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them
As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease thatīs contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen Iīm outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
thatīs why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc
now, since Iīm just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and Iīm not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
-
And to show you what I understand by "explaining", hereīs a post I made about 7 months ago, wasting a lot of my precious time on "Nature of the Threat"...if you want to back up your claim, thatīs how you could if you brought in good points
ok Infinite, youīre a hard impossible case of ignorance, yet something still makes me react. Congrats on that. Like Seer said, the Isis papers have been debunked. Youīre easy to impress by somebody just saying some shit he defines as īkicking knowledgeī
December 25th, the birth of Saturn
A homosexual god, now check the historical pattern
December 25, now thought the birth of Christ
Was Saturnalia, when men got drunk,
fucked each other then beat their wife
Fact is, it was still practiced, til they called it Christmas
So put a gerbil on your Christmas list
Men practising homosexuality on Saturnalia is a wild assumption. It is true that December 25th is not the definite day of birth of Jesus Christ, however, the reason it was chosen for christmas day was partly because it coincided with the holiday of the profane festival and partly because some evidence did exist that Christ was actually born on that day. However, suggesting there is a connection between the two and then bringing in homosexuality is highly inadequate
The Hellenistic Era, Alexander the Great
Conquers all the way to India leavin four successor states
By the Fifth century B.C., R.O.M.E.
succeeds to be the conqueror of Egypt and Greece
But had the threat of the Black Phoenicians in Sicily
The Punic Wars began 264 B.C.
The Black general Hannibal and Carthaginian Peace
In 146 B.C. Carthage fell after a six-month siege
Rome sold every citizen to slavery
The first genocide of history
On a side note, this is ridiculously amateurish songwriting. As for the content, slavery had existed and flourished very long before the Roman culture rose; it was prevalent in Africa when Southern Europeans still sat around in caves. Nubia knew slavery and so did Egypt where slaves were kept for all purposes and also sacrificed. The only thing he could claim is that the Romans took something a step further that had already been known for centuries
And more bisexuality in sight; Julius Caesar was known as
"every woman's husband and every man's wife" (BEOTCH!)
More bisexuality? He first mentioned homosexuality, thatīs not the same. Razzy, get your facts right. Anyways, it is known that in ancient africa there were certain tribes who did not condone homosexuality. Some even accepted adultery and/or incest and/or rape. This was before the birth of Cesar, I can tell you that
Spartacus Revolt, a slave rebellion that lost
Where 6,000 slaves was nailed on a cross
Cross? Aw, shit! Jesus Christ! Time for some-act-right
Christians get your facts right
Cause Christ was not his name
That's Greek for "One who is anointed"
Yoshua Ben Yosef was his name, do Christians know this?
So who do you praise, do you know his name?
Or do you do this in vain?
Accepting the religion they gave slaves to behave
Peep the description of historian Josephus
"Short, dark, with an underdeveloped beard was Jesus"
actually, "Jesus" does come from "Yeshua" and the way it was spelt. It is not just a name that was made up to cover His real identity. It is widely acknowledged that Jesus/Yeshua was middle eastern in appearance, whatīs his point there? That some creatianists donīt?
He had the Romans fearing revolution
The solution was to take him to court and falsely accuse him
After being murdered by Pilate how can it be
these same white Romans established Christianity
Dumb question. Pilate died in the first half of the first century and it was in 313 that christians were given freedom of belief and in 391 that Romans established the religion. So, how could the same whites who enslaved blacks let them become lawyers, doctors and even politicians? ::)
Constantine would later see the cross in a dream
in his vision, it read "En Hawk Signo Wonka":
"In this sign we conquer" - Manifest Destiny
In 325 he convened the Nicean Creed
And separated god into three
Decided Jesus was born on December 25th
and raised then on the third day is a myth
Plus to deceive us
Commissioned Michelangelo to paint white pictures of Jesus
He used his aunt, uncle, and nephew
Subconsciously that affects you
It makes you put white people closer to God
This suggests that one person decided when Jesus was born, which is not true. Also, how does that correspond with the link Razzy sees to the evil fag tradition of Saturnia? Was that a coincidence then? So why does he mention it?
(Yo, 'The Man' got game like a motherfucker!)
True indeed, fuck it, Jihad
Should I comment on Razzy letting someone say he got game like a mothafucka for giving us a synopsis of the Isis Papers without really writing a song and him confirming that guy he payed off to say that himself and subsequently announcing Jihad? I guess not ::)
In the eight century Muslims conquered
Spain, Portugal and France and controlled it for 700 years
They never mention this in history class
cause o'fays are threatened when you get the real lesson
Moors from Baghdad, Turkey threatened European Christians
Meaning, the white way of life; hence the Crusades for Christ
On November 25th, 1491
Santiago defeats the last Muslim stronghold, Grenada
King Ferdinand gave thanks to God for victory
And the Pope of Rome and declared this date to forever be
A day of "Thanksgiving" for all European Christians
This part gives props to the Muslims for conquering large parts of Europe and depicts them as heroic fighters against the evil white way of life. In fact, Muslims conquering Europe is as just or injust as Europeans conquering whatever...it was territorial expansion, period. Sounds like Razzy accuses Europeans of having defended themselves
______________________________________________________________
Ok, again, this song is just full of shit, really. I am very well aware of all the deplorable and despicable acts committed by whites and europeans in world history, as well as I am strongly in favor of people receiving unbiased information on that, religion as a whole and Jesus/Yeshua in particular, but this is not only biased, it is absolutely stupid. The song itself, since this started out as a comparison to the Beatles, ainīt shit either; musically itīs lame, the lyrics contain a few forced rhymes "embedded" in a soliloquy that is borderline to prose and presented mind-blowingly off-beat.
The Isis papers having been "debunked as inaccurate" is actually almost a euphemism. From all I know about them, they are full of wild assumptions the author bases all her writing on, apodictically claiming theyīre true without backing them up. Eg she claims that guns, the cross and swastikas are male black genitalia. Interestingly, the Swastika is an ancient Indian symbol. Then she sees a connection between melanin and intelligence and is actually oblivious of the fact that white people have melanin too (very hard to find out, since every white is exactly as white as every other white) and so on. From all I know there are no respected black scientists who respect the Isis papers
To sum up, Iīm not THAT impressed. I think "I am the walrus, co-coo-co-choo" is better lyricism
-
As most of the verses you posted show, ras kass has small parts with a good rhyme scheme in his verses but the majority is structured without a concept, seeming almost clumsy, just take the first lines of the fist verse you posted
So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape
he puts his rhymes kinda random, as if he doesn't write the shit to be flowing it later, but just as a random text that has rhymes in it. The end of the fourth line for example doesn't rhyme at all, the rhyming part is january but that hardly supports the flow. Same with line 8 and 11 (and 1,2), that kinda shit kills the flow and when the rest has this very simple structure
I'm pressing California license plate
For niggas in all 50 fucking states
with the short pause he often makes after each of these lines it makes the whole shit sound like an enumeration of lines instead of a nice flow. It often seems like he doesn't know what the point of multis is n how to use em.
Only thing you proved with the post is what we never denied, the fact that ras kass uses an impressive vocabulary (impressive to those who are impressed by it) and can express himself well. If anybody in this thread denied that Ras Kass has wordplay or lyrical skill go ahead n quote it.
He lacks when it comes to
1. writing lyrics in a way that they facilitate a good, clean flow
2. sounding convicing / credible as far as messages he propagates go.
He is a good battle rapper but the political parts are usually not convincing. And I'm don't mean that as in "he's racist and racism is bad so he's not convincing", a racist can put his views a way that they sound sorta convincing too, if he has that ability, Ras kass doesn't have it. He didn't even manage to make white people look bad in their historical 'conflict' with blacks which shouldn't be that hard considering it is the truth that whites fucked up here. Nature Of The Threat was started with a contradiction that killed the rest of the track and practically justified white people's racism against blacks as fair retaliation. That kinda shit's way too heavy to happen to one of the greatest ever.
these 2 aspects are way too major to be overlooked when it comes to the question wether somebody is "EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever"
-
These are the top Mc's of all time overall imo: Biggie,Kool G Rap,Pac,Rakim,Raekwon,GZA,Nas,Jay-z,J-live,Talib Kweli, Common,Chino XL,Big Pun.
-
ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them
As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease thatīs contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen Iīm outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
thatīs why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc
now, since Iīm just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and Iīm not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.
If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.
They wanna know how many rhymes have I ripped in rep., but
Researchers never found all the pieces yet
Scientists try to solve the context
Philosophers are wondering what's next
Pieces are took to last who observe them
They couldn't absorb them, they didn't deserve them
My ideas are only for the audience's ears
For my opponents, it might take years
Pencils and pens, are swords
Letters put together form a key to chords
I'm also a sculpture, born with structure
Because of my culture, I'm a rip and destruct the
Difficult styles that'll be for the technology
Complete sights and new heights after I get deep
You don't have to speak just seek
And peep the technique
The verse above is an average rakim verse. I probably put the verse u posted aboved this one, but I guess according to you because of that Rakim cannot be considered to be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. That's was a fuckin weak attack. ::)
-
As most of the verses you posted show, ras kass has small parts with a good rhyme scheme in his verses but the majority is structured without a concept, seeming almost clumsy, just take the first lines of the fist verse you posted
So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape
he puts his rhymes kinda random, as if he doesn't write the shit to be flowing it later, but just as a random text that has rhymes in it. The end of the fourth line for example doesn't rhyme at all, the rhyming part is january but that hardly supports the flow. Same with line 8 and 11 (and 1,2), that kinda shit kills the flow and when the rest has this very simple structure
I'm pressing California license plate
For niggas in all 50 fucking states
with the short pause he often makes after each of these lines it makes the whole shit sound like an enumeration of lines instead of a nice flow. It often seems like he doesn't know what the point of multis is n how to use em.
Only thing you proved with the post is what we never denied, the fact that ras kass uses an impressive vocabulary (impressive to those who are impressed by it) and can express himself well. If anybody in this thread denied that Ras Kass has wordplay or lyrical skill go ahead n quote it.
He lacks when it comes to
1. writing lyrics in a way that they facilitate a good, clean flow
2. sounding convicing / credible as far as messages he propagates go.
He is a good battle rapper but the political parts are usually not convincing. And I'm don't mean that as in "he's racist and racism is bad so he's not convincing", a racist can put his views a way that they sound sorta convincing too, if he has that ability, Ras kass doesn't have it. He didn't even manage to make white people look bad in their historical 'conflict' with blacks which shouldn't be that hard considering it is the truth that whites fucked up here. Nature Of The Threat was started with a contradiction that killed the rest of the track and practically justified white people's racism against blacks as fair retaliation. That kinda shit's way too heavy to happen to one of the greatest ever.
these 2 aspects are way too major to be overlooked when it comes to the question wether somebody is "EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever"
O.K. I see where you are going with this one. I never denied this and the purpose of this verse were to show his impressive lyrical skills NOT vocabulary. I don't know why you and kill keep stating it that way. His wordplay, rhymes, and the material he covers all at the same time are impressive. Second as far as making his messages convincing and making his flow comes correctly; you are 100%. Ras kass admitted this once in an interview and I never denied it, but I am talking ras kass striclty as a lyricist-lyrical skills. Not ras kass as an emcee where you take in flow, delivery, breath control, and the whole exectuion of his lyrics. That's emceeing which you were talking about, but I talking of lyrical skills on the mic; ras as a lyricist not an mc. I dont know if u will understand what i am saying. Perhaps the confusion lays in OUR definition of a lyricist and mc.
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And to show you what I understand by "explaining", hereīs a post I made about 7 months ago, wasting a lot of my precious time on "Nature of the Threat"...if you want to back up your claim, thatīs how you could if you brought in good points
ok Infinite, youīre a hard impossible case of ignorance, yet something still makes me react. Congrats on that. Like Seer said, the Isis papers have been debunked. Youīre easy to impress by somebody just saying some shit he defines as īkicking knowledgeī
December 25th, the birth of Saturn
A homosexual god, now check the historical pattern
December 25, now thought the birth of Christ
Was Saturnalia, when men got drunk,
fucked each other then beat their wife
Fact is, it was still practiced, til they called it Christmas
So put a gerbil on your Christmas list
Men practising homosexuality on Saturnalia is a wild assumption. It is true that December 25th is not the definite day of birth of Jesus Christ, however, the reason it was chosen for christmas day was partly because it coincided with the holiday of the profane festival and partly because some evidence did exist that Christ was actually born on that day. However, suggesting there is a connection between the two and then bringing in homosexuality is highly inadequate
The Hellenistic Era, Alexander the Great
Conquers all the way to India leavin four successor states
By the Fifth century B.C., R.O.M.E.
succeeds to be the conqueror of Egypt and Greece
But had the threat of the Black Phoenicians in Sicily
The Punic Wars began 264 B.C.
The Black general Hannibal and Carthaginian Peace
In 146 B.C. Carthage fell after a six-month siege
Rome sold every citizen to slavery
The first genocide of history
On a side note, this is ridiculously amateurish songwriting. As for the content, slavery had existed and flourished very long before the Roman culture rose; it was prevalent in Africa when Southern Europeans still sat around in caves. Nubia knew slavery and so did Egypt where slaves were kept for all purposes and also sacrificed. The only thing he could claim is that the Romans took something a step further that had already been known for centuries
And more bisexuality in sight; Julius Caesar was known as
"every woman's husband and every man's wife" (BEOTCH!)
More bisexuality? He first mentioned homosexuality, thatīs not the same. Razzy, get your facts right. Anyways, it is known that in ancient africa there were certain tribes who did not condone homosexuality. Some even accepted adultery and/or incest and/or rape. This was before the birth of Cesar, I can tell you that
Spartacus Revolt, a slave rebellion that lost
Where 6,000 slaves was nailed on a cross
Cross? Aw, shit! Jesus Christ! Time for some-act-right
Christians get your facts right
Cause Christ was not his name
That's Greek for "One who is anointed"
Yoshua Ben Yosef was his name, do Christians know this?
So who do you praise, do you know his name?
Or do you do this in vain?
Accepting the religion they gave slaves to behave
Peep the description of historian Josephus
"Short, dark, with an underdeveloped beard was Jesus"
actually, "Jesus" does come from "Yeshua" and the way it was spelt. It is not just a name that was made up to cover His real identity. It is widely acknowledged that Jesus/Yeshua was middle eastern in appearance, whatīs his point there? That some creatianists donīt?
He had the Romans fearing revolution
The solution was to take him to court and falsely accuse him
After being murdered by Pilate how can it be
these same white Romans established Christianity
Dumb question. Pilate died in the first half of the first century and it was in 313 that christians were given freedom of belief and in 391 that Romans established the religion. So, how could the same whites who enslaved blacks let them become lawyers, doctors and even politicians? ::)
Constantine would later see the cross in a dream
in his vision, it read "En Hawk Signo Wonka":
"In this sign we conquer" - Manifest Destiny
In 325 he convened the Nicean Creed
And separated god into three
Decided Jesus was born on December 25th
and raised then on the third day is a myth
Plus to deceive us
Commissioned Michelangelo to paint white pictures of Jesus
He used his aunt, uncle, and nephew
Subconsciously that affects you
It makes you put white people closer to God
This suggests that one person decided when Jesus was born, which is not true. Also, how does that correspond with the link Razzy sees to the evil fag tradition of Saturnia? Was that a coincidence then? So why does he mention it?
(Yo, 'The Man' got game like a motherfucker!)
True indeed, fuck it, Jihad
Should I comment on Razzy letting someone say he got game like a mothafucka for giving us a synopsis of the Isis Papers without really writing a song and him confirming that guy he payed off to say that himself and subsequently announcing Jihad? I guess not ::)
In the eight century Muslims conquered
Spain, Portugal and France and controlled it for 700 years
They never mention this in history class
cause o'fays are threatened when you get the real lesson
Moors from Baghdad, Turkey threatened European Christians
Meaning, the white way of life; hence the Crusades for Christ
On November 25th, 1491
Santiago defeats the last Muslim stronghold, Grenada
King Ferdinand gave thanks to God for victory
And the Pope of Rome and declared this date to forever be
A day of "Thanksgiving" for all European Christians
This part gives props to the Muslims for conquering large parts of Europe and depicts them as heroic fighters against the evil white way of life. In fact, Muslims conquering Europe is as just or injust as Europeans conquering whatever...it was territorial expansion, period. Sounds like Razzy accuses Europeans of having defended themselves
______________________________________________________________
Ok, again, this song is just full of shit, really. I am very well aware of all the deplorable and despicable acts committed by whites and europeans in world history, as well as I am strongly in favor of people receiving unbiased information on that, religion as a whole and Jesus/Yeshua in particular, but this is not only biased, it is absolutely stupid. The song itself, since this started out as a comparison to the Beatles, ainīt shit either; musically itīs lame, the lyrics contain a few forced rhymes "embedded" in a soliloquy that is borderline to prose and presented mind-blowingly off-beat.
The Isis papers having been "debunked as inaccurate" is actually almost a euphemism. From all I know about them, they are full of wild assumptions the author bases all her writing on, apodictically claiming theyīre true without backing them up. Eg she claims that guns, the cross and swastikas are male black genitalia. Interestingly, the Swastika is an ancient Indian symbol. Then she sees a connection between melanin and intelligence and is actually oblivious of the fact that white people have melanin too (very hard to find out, since every white is exactly as white as every other white) and so on. From all I know there are no respected black scientists who respect the Isis papers
To sum up, Iīm not THAT impressed. I think "I am the walrus, co-coo-co-choo" is better lyricism
u asked me to show what r so exciting abou his lyrics? I cant do that. I know when I first read some of those very verses including many people, I was excited by those lyrics and went to check out his albums. Unlike you I won't waste my precious time trying to convince you what are so exciting about his lyrics. As far as I am concern the number of hip hop fans who don't like ras kass or don't think he is one of the greatest lyricists ever are a minority based on my experiences with other hip hop fans across other hip hop forums and with the hip hop fams I talk to in real life. Right there is enough proof for me that I am not a ras kass fan( and "fan" is the euphemistic way of putting it).
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O.K. I see where you are going with this one. I never denied this and the purpose of this verse were to show his impressive lyrical skills NOT vocabulary. I don't know why you and kill keep stating it that way. His wordplay, rhymes, and the material he covers all at the same time are impressive. Second as far as making his messages convincing and making his flow comes correctly; you are 100%. Ras kass admitted this once in an interview and I never denied it, but I am talking ras kass striclty as a lyricist-lyrical skills. Not ras kass as an emcee where you take in flow, delivery, breath control, and the whole exectuion of his lyrics. That's emceeing which you were talking about, but I talking of lyrical skills on the mic; ras as a lyricist not an mc. I dont know if u will understand what i am saying. Perhaps the confusion lays in OUR definition of a lyricist and mc.
making the message sound convicing is an aspect of lyrical skill, not flow, so you just admitted his lyrical weakness.
As for the flow, there's 2 aspects to the flow, one being like your style, the way you flow it, the other being how you write your verses (rhyme scheme ect.) which is a part of lyricism aswell since were talkin about song lyricists here. Alot of Ras' verses couldn't possibly be spit decently, regardless of who spits them. So the problem lies in the writing part already, not only his lack of emceeing skills (the spitting part).
we're not talkin shakespeare here, great lyrical skill means, in this case, that the person writes great lyrics to songs. Ras Kass cannot be skillfull at writing rap lyrics when he doesn't know how to place his ryhmes. You can't say just cause you don't hear the problem before he raps the lyrics, it ain't existant before he raps them. If a dude writes lyrics like KRS but spits them like Bizarre, then you can talk about one of the greatest lyricists ever who just lacks the rest of emcee skills. But every decent emcee could perfectly spit KRS' lyrics if he was their ghostwriter, that doesn't go for Ras Kass.
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As far as I am concern the number of hip hop fans who don't like ras kass or don't think he is one of the greatest lyricists ever are a minority based on my experiences with other hip hop fans across other hip hop forums and with the hip hop fams I talk to in real life. Right there is enough proof for me that I am not a ras kass fan( and "fan" is the euphemistic way of putting it).
the number of people who agree with one's opinion can never be proof of anything. Millions of fools by nelly's albums, does it make him a great emcee ? no, cause these people don't understand hiphop and lyricism as much as we do, right ? compared to them we are a minority. Unfortunately the smarter people are almost always a minority. What tells you us hiphop fans who don't consider Ras Kass great are not yet another smarter minority, just like you are in comparison to people who consider nelly dope ? You can only prove it by explaining why.. numbers don't mean shit
On a side note, what people on the internet say might not be representative of what the majorty of the hiphop comunity thinks, ras kass doesn't exactly sell loads does he, at least I heard his sales are rather weak, even for his low 'fame status' (dunno how true it is though cause I don't follow these numbers).
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Warren G
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ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them
As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease thatīs contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen Iīm outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
thatīs why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc
now, since Iīm just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and Iīm not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.
If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.
ok, Iīve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so Iīm not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments
You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzyīs style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasnīt mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that Iīm not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but donīt get me wrong: Iīm neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think itīs not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is
but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think heīs mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOATīs - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still havenīt done the opposite even though youīve been discussing for a while
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O.K. I see where you are going with this one. I never denied this and the purpose of this verse were to show his impressive lyrical skills NOT vocabulary. I don't know why you and kill keep stating it that way. His wordplay, rhymes, and the material he covers all at the same time are impressive. Second as far as making his messages convincing and making his flow comes correctly; you are 100%. Ras kass admitted this once in an interview and I never denied it, but I am talking ras kass striclty as a lyricist-lyrical skills. Not ras kass as an emcee where you take in flow, delivery, breath control, and the whole exectuion of his lyrics. That's emceeing which you were talking about, but I talking of lyrical skills on the mic; ras as a lyricist not an mc. I dont know if u will understand what i am saying. Perhaps the confusion lays in OUR definition of a lyricist and mc.
making the message sound convicing is an aspect of lyrical skill, not flow, so you just admitted his lyrical weakness.
As for the flow, there's 2 aspects to the flow, one being like your style, the way you flow it, the other being how you write your verses (rhyme scheme ect.) which is a part of lyricism aswell since were talkin about song lyricists here. Alot of Ras' verses couldn't possibly be spit decently, regardless of who spits them. So the problem lies in the writing part already, not only his lack of emceeing skills (the spitting part).
we're not talkin shakespeare here, great lyrical skill means, in this case, that the person writes great lyrics to songs. Ras Kass cannot be skillfull at writing rap lyrics when he doesn't know how to place his ryhmes. You can't say just cause you don't hear the problem before he raps the lyrics, it ain't existant before he raps them. If a dude writes lyrics like KRS but spits them like Bizarre, then you can talk about one of the greatest lyricists ever who just lacks the rest of emcee skills. But every decent emcee could perfectly spit KRS' lyrics if he was their ghostwriter, that doesn't go for Ras Kass.
Once again I see where you are coming from and even though I admitted ras kass lyrical weakness with displaying messages convincingly like pac or nas(reason why he put them over himself or at least for pac from what I remember); but I disagree with you on ras kass's flow of his rhymes. I believe any decent lyricist can spit ras's lyrics. I dont believe the problem lies in his writings skills, rather I believe it lies in his difficulities to express himself properly hence the emceeing part meaning flow, delivery, breath control, emotion, etc. Ras is a great song lyricist who has proven this before with songs like 'the evil men do', 'interview with a vampire', 't.v guide', and 'jack frost'.
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ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them
As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease thatīs contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen Iīm outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
thatīs why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc
now, since Iīm just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and Iīm not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.
If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.
ok, Iīve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so Iīm not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments
You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzyīs style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasnīt mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that Iīm not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but donīt get me wrong: Iīm neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think itīs not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is
but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think heīs mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOATīs - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still havenīt done the opposite even though youīve been discussing for a while
As far the verse u posted I didn't notice that you were imitating ras kass's style. So right there I dont agree with your generalization of ras kass's lyrics. Second I said that rassy kassy verse was average because after reading it a couple times especially the beginning I thought it was kind of subpar for his standard. Third I didn't really spend time to find some of HIS best verses ever since I felt it wasn't necessary so hence that average verse pop up. As far as my compliments to that verse u wrote that was mainly for the use of vocabulary from a dubcc poster out of nowhere that impressed. While ras has a huge vocabulary that was not what impressed me; it was his skills as lyricist combining deep subject matter and battle raps together a way I never seen before.
You keep saying I still have not proved my case; I do not know what you are trying to prove or get at with this statement. I can easily say the same thing for you since to me you havent proved to me why ras kass is not one of the greatest lyricist ever. To me all I read from you is that he's trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and generalizing his lyrics has a combination of senseless multi's and religion which I see has a HUGE and unfair ras kass stereotype. It reminds me of a stereotype of pac I heard once where this one person said all he raps about is henessy and thugs. I view that ras kass stereotype in the same exact light of the example I presented of pac.
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tupac,rakim,RAS KASS(I loved Nature of the threat),and Nas
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Once again I see where you are coming from and even though I admitted ras kass lyrical weakness with displaying messages convincingly like pac or nas(reason why he put them over himself or at least for pac from what I remember);
In that case you'll have to limit your claim of him being one of the greatest lyricist ever to one of the greatest battle lyricists ever. Somebody who struggles to get his message through cannot be one of the greatest overall lyricists ever.
but I disagree with you on ras kass's flow of his rhymes. I believe any decent lyricist can spit ras's lyrics. I dont believe the problem lies in his writings skills, rather I believe it lies in his difficulities to express himself properly hence the emceeing part meaning flow, delivery, breath control, emotion, etc.
So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape
are you an emcee ? (amateur or not)
try and flow that shit properly, it won't happen. of course you can put it on beat but whoever listens to it will tell you that somethings missing when you ask for constructive criticism or he'll tell you you were stressing the wrong words in a few parts, thinkin the lines / rhymes are structured different to what it seems like when you spit em (which is not the case).
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I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
It's plain to see, you can't change me
Kill will be the GOAT for life
;D
You just outshined Ras Kass... Props on that verse man, it's hot 8)
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ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them
As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease thatīs contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen Iīm outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
thatīs why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc
now, since Iīm just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and Iīm not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.
If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.
ok, Iīve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so Iīm not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments
You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzyīs style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasnīt mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that Iīm not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but donīt get me wrong: Iīm neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think itīs not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is
but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think heīs mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOATīs - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still havenīt done the opposite even though youīve been discussing for a while
As far the verse u posted I didn't notice that you were imitating ras kass's style. So right there I dont agree with your generalization of ras kass's lyrics. Second I said that rassy kassy verse was average because after reading it a couple times especially the beginning I thought it was kind of subpar for his standard. Third I didn't really spend time to find some of HIS best verses ever since I felt it wasn't necessary so hence that average verse pop up. As far as my compliments to that verse u wrote that was mainly for the use of vocabulary from a dubcc poster out of nowhere that impressed. While ras has a huge vocabulary that was not what impressed me; it was his skills as lyricist combining deep subject matter and battle raps together a way I never seen before.
You keep saying I still have not proved my case; I do not know what you are trying to prove or get at with this statement. I can easily say the same thing for you since to me you havent proved to me why ras kass is not one of the greatest lyricist ever. To me all I read from you is that he's trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and generalizing his lyrics has a combination of senseless multi's and religion which I see has a HUGE and unfair ras kass stereotype. It reminds me of a stereotype of pac I heard once where this one person said all he raps about is henessy and thugs. I view that ras kass stereotype in the same exact light of the example I presented of pac.
you exaggerate everything I suggest. I didnīt put up one hell of an imitation, but yes, I made religious references, used a bunch of big words and insinuated racism...plus I made the rhyme structure itself rather simple and irregular. whatever, it was a keystyle
what youīve done again now is you took everything I said a step further to make it look like a generalization. I disagree with what you "blame" me for saying, in fact. Ras does have lyrical skills, as for "getting things through thick skulls", I never said Ras doesnīt have lyrical skills. He tends to use big words where not all that necessary and many of his fans tend to be easily impressed by that. Some of his lyricism is quite decent and some is really pretentious. Thatīs the way I see it. Ras
trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and his lyrics having a combination of senseless multi's and religion
is not entirely the way I see it, itīs a few tendencies he has though (except for the multis, he barely even uses multis)...adding his flow, delivery and the rest of what you said in that other post comparing him to Pac and Nas, he is not too close to GOAT status for me. Plus he hasnīt made one great album really. But he does have a certain talent, he has written some good lyrics, of course having such a vocab can be a quality if you donīt use it TOO ostentatiously (which he doesnīt always do) and I bump some of his stuff, which I wouldnīt do if my opinion could be reduced to your concept right there...and I never said anything else, all I said is certain factors keep him quite far away from GOATability
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...and you can compare my lyric to your fav Ras Kass verse if you wanna, that should be easy since Razzy is one of the best lyricists IYO
(and Iīm not saying me > Ras or me = Ras, Iīd just be curious to see such a comparison by you)
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Planet Asia, or Tash
fuck no lol
no, theyīre good too, but my hating ass still makes me wonder how you think theyīre GOAT...
lol, they're just my favs man, thats all.. I dont really regard any mc as goat
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Once again I see where you are coming from and even though I admitted ras kass lyrical weakness with displaying messages convincingly like pac or nas(reason why he put them over himself or at least for pac from what I remember);
In that case you'll have to limit your claim of him being one of the greatest lyricist ever to one of the greatest battle lyricists ever. Somebody who struggles to get his message through cannot be one of the greatest overall lyricists ever.
but I disagree with you on ras kass's flow of his rhymes. I believe any decent lyricist can spit ras's lyrics. I dont believe the problem lies in his writings skills, rather I believe it lies in his difficulities to express himself properly hence the emceeing part meaning flow, delivery, breath control, emotion, etc.
So can you recoginze shit is real
When I shove this ampex 4-9-9 up your rectum
I'm ready to bust every bitch niggas cherry
See these floods in January got me lookin' in the mirror
Screamin' Bloody Mary
Unnecessary representin', equal set trippin'
Divided by my tennis hoe pimpin'
Got all ya'll niggas dippin', like Lipton Tea Bags, son
His stilo Jeet Kune Do the way of the intercepting fist
Intercepting every sublimial dis
Geographic, prejudice against increments of incredulos legislature
Pschologically, I masturbate with the hands of fate
So bust nuts on Mother Nature coming on your landscape
are you an emcee ? (amateur or not)
try and flow that shit properly, it won't happen. of course you can put it on beat but whoever listens to it will tell you that somethings missing when you ask for constructive criticism or he'll tell you you were stressing the wrong words in a few parts, thinkin the lines / rhymes are structured different to what it seems like when you spit em (which is not the case).
I limit my claim of ras kass to being one of the greatest battle lyricists ever.
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ok, so you just did what we could have done with the help of ohhla: you posted up lyrics. You did not point out what is supposed to be so exciting about them
As I stomp on the planet, I create earthquakes of humiliating exorbitance
wreaking havoc, my status is that of a saint sacrificed and born again
god help me, the epitome of church has a disease thatīs contagious
whitey defined religion, but the clerical depiction of Jesus is fallacious
so I get into your skin like schistosomiasis, with a pen Iīm outrageous
they built up a system of deceipt and sold us crack just to tame us
so I treat my metaphors like sour milk, spit em out from my esophagus
proclaiming sincerity with devotion, overdosing on the rawest stuff
and law is a euphemism for blatantly racially pejorative actions
thatīs why I scream fuck police and all my nigguz is packin
....etc
now, since Iīm just Kill the dubcc poster and Ras is Razzy the lyrical saint, I would like you to explain how my ^cheap keystyle imitation^ of your idol is shit (and Iīm not saying I just wrote something genius) but something like this lyric below is "easily some of the best lyricism in hiphop":
I'm down wit Violet Brown and ebony cats
Down wit 65 niggaz packin' 70 gats
I'm down wit Shinehead, Big Gipp, Goodie M-O-B
My nigga Twista, Killah Priest, and Pimp C
From UGK, Do Or Die, AK
Qwest the Mad LaD, Wendy Day
I self lord am master art form, metaphors and furthermore
Verbal masterpiece to master war, then master more
Cause a real nigga known to flow rigor mortis to stiffen your riffin'
Thugged out without Bloodin' or Crippin', till the needle start skippin'
The cut fuck your hairline up like Scott Pippen
Huh, hopin' the dummies stop frontin'
Hold on I am missing something...'cheap keystyle imitation'. So what does that mean you wrote that verse?. If I am wrong then I missed you on that, but if you wrote it then it is pretty good fuckin verse which I certainly did not expect you to bust out of nowhere.
If I am right on that u wrote that verse then that means I detect sarcasm. In other words you just said you wrote a better verse than one of rassy kassy's average verse; therefore he cannot be EASILY one of the greatest lyricists ever. Well guess what... that doesn't mean shit. Alot of great lyricists have had some average verses and rassy is no exception.
ok, Iīve had 7 or 8 beers right now, so Iīm not in the mood/lack the capabilities to argue. But yes, I did bust that verse out of nowhere and thanks for the compliments
You kind of jumped to conclusions too quickly though...what I did is, I imitated Razzyīs style and wrote (or tried to write, whatever) something similar to the stuff he writes. It wasnīt mere sarcasm, I wrote it to back up my point that Iīm not THAT impressed by Razzy and I wondered if you could compare my verse to the Ras Kass one and show me what makes Ras Kass so great (compared to Kill the dubcc poster). Of course I expressed myself sarcastically, but donīt get me wrong: Iīm neither "hating" on Ras nor am I saying that "I just wrote a better verse"...I just adapted his style to show why I think itīs not all that genius. What I find strange though is that you talked about an "average" verse when I took one of those you posted up in order to show how great Razzy is
but what got the discussion started was me saying "fuck no" to Ras being the GOAT MC - not me saying "Ras has no lyrical skills whatsoever and is the definition of wackness". I never said anything like that, I just think heīs mad overrated by many of his fans and lacks a lot to come close to the GOATīs - flow, good albums, delivery, to say some of it. Plus he has said some pretty fucking dumb shit, which is why I posted what I said about "Nature of the Threat". And you, you still havenīt done the opposite even though youīve been discussing for a while
As far the verse u posted I didn't notice that you were imitating ras kass's style. So right there I dont agree with your generalization of ras kass's lyrics. Second I said that rassy kassy verse was average because after reading it a couple times especially the beginning I thought it was kind of subpar for his standard. Third I didn't really spend time to find some of HIS best verses ever since I felt it wasn't necessary so hence that average verse pop up. As far as my compliments to that verse u wrote that was mainly for the use of vocabulary from a dubcc poster out of nowhere that impressed. While ras has a huge vocabulary that was not what impressed me; it was his skills as lyricist combining deep subject matter and battle raps together a way I never seen before.
You keep saying I still have not proved my case; I do not know what you are trying to prove or get at with this statement. I can easily say the same thing for you since to me you havent proved to me why ras kass is not one of the greatest lyricist ever. To me all I read from you is that he's trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and generalizing his lyrics has a combination of senseless multi's and religion which I see has a HUGE and unfair ras kass stereotype. It reminds me of a stereotype of pac I heard once where this one person said all he raps about is henessy and thugs. I view that ras kass stereotype in the same exact light of the example I presented of pac.
you exaggerate everything I suggest. I didnīt put up one hell of an imitation, but yes, I made religious references, used a bunch of big words and insinuated racism...plus I made the rhyme structure itself rather simple and irregular. whatever, it was a keystyle
what youīve done again now is you took everything I said a step further to make it look like a generalization. I disagree with what you "blame" me for saying, in fact. Ras does have lyrical skills, as for "getting things through thick skulls", I never said Ras doesnīt have lyrical skills. He tends to use big words where not all that necessary and many of his fans tend to be easily impressed by that. Some of his lyricism is quite decent and some is really pretentious. Thatīs the way I see it. Ras
trying to be impressive with a huge vocabularly and his lyrics having a combination of senseless multi's and religion
is not entirely the way I see it, itīs a few tendencies he has though (except for the multis, he barely even uses multis)...adding his flow, delivery and the rest of what you said in that other post comparing him to Pac and Nas, he is not too close to GOAT status for me. Plus he hasnīt made one great album really. But he does have a certain talent, he has written some good lyrics, of course having such a vocab can be a quality if you donīt use it TOO ostentatiously (which he doesnīt always do) and I bump some of his stuff, which I wouldnīt do if my opinion could be reduced to your concept right there...and I never said anything else, all I said is certain factors keep him quite far away from GOATability
O.K. That 'getting through ur skulls comment' came from me at the time cuz I thought you were using one song(NOTT) to dimish his lyrical skillls. I looked back and see you never did such a thing. It was just a vibe I picked off you at the time. I never said he was goat mc. Just one of the greatest mc based on mic skills, but whatever. You still disagree which is your opinion and right and you DID say he had lyrical skills.
...and you can compare my lyric to your fav Ras Kass verse if you wanna, that should be easy since Razzy is one of the best lyricists IYO
(and Iīm not saying me > Ras or me = Ras, Iīd just be curious to see such a comparison by you)
^ I dont know if it is the way you wrote those two lines, but I dont understand what you are saying there.
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Nas And LL Cool J
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O.K. That 'getting through ur skulls comment' came from me at the time cuz I thought you were using one song(NOTT) to dimish his lyrical skillls. I looked back and see you never did such a thing. It was just a vibe I picked off you at the time. I never said he was goat mc. Just one of the greatest mc based on mic skills, but whatever. You still disagree which is your opinion and right and you DID say he had lyrical skills.
ok...yeah, i know you didnīt call him GOAT, that was the guy with Soul On Ice in his sig, I just said "fuck no" and that got this long ass discussion started. And i did use NOTT to show what I dislike about Ras Kass, but i never intended to generalize his lyrics because of that song and i do acknowledge that would be unfair...however, itīs all good
...and you can compare my lyric to your fav Ras Kass verse if you wanna, that should be easy since Razzy is one of the best lyricists IYO
(and Iīm not saying me > Ras or me = Ras, Iīd just be curious to see such a comparison by you)
^ I dont know if it is the way you wrote those two lines, but I dont understand what you are saying there.
all I said was that since you said I posted my verse next to an average Ras one, that you could, if you want, post my verse next to a Ras one you consider one of his best and compare. I just wrote some shit as an opportunity for you to compare, which you havenīt done so far. Plus I stated that Iīm not intending to imply Iīm better than Razzy or anything
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ras kass is an overrated fuck, kill is right.
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ras kass is an overrated fuck, kill is right.
Yep