West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: PLANT on May 16, 2013, 05:08:14 PM
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Phil Jackson had the savvy and good fortune to coach two of the greatest players the NBA has ever known—both 2-guards, both brilliant sociopaths. But for the first time, Jackson writes about how the two measure up against each other.
Jackson's book, Eleven Rings, comes out next week. But today, Mike Bresnahan of the L.A. Times, who often tried unsuccessfully to get Jackson to compare the two, runs a few preview passages in which Jackson does exactly that.
On basketball mindsets:
"Michael was more likely to break through his attackers with power and strength, while Kobe often tries to finesse his way through mass pileups," Jackson wrote. "Michael was stronger, with bigger shoulders and a sturdier frame. He also had large hands that allowed him to control the ball better and make subtle fakes.
"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."
On defense:
"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender. He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense.
"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael's tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game. In general, Kobe tends to rely more heavily on his flexibility and craftiness, but he takes a lot of gambles on defense and sometimes pays the price."
On leadership:
"One of the biggest differences between the two stars from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader," Jackson said. "Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence. Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game, but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones, as Michael had."
Bryant gradually evolved during the 2008-09 championship season, when the Lakers successfully retooled with a more finessed look with Pau Gasol instead of the brute force of the Shaquille O'Neal teams.
If Bryant talked to teammates in his earlier Lakers years, it was usually, "Give me the damn ball," Jackson wrote. "But then Kobe started to shift. He embraced the team and his teammates, calling them up when we were on the road and inviting them out to dinner. It was as if the other players were now his partners, not his personal spear-carriers."
http://deadspin.com/phil-jackson-finally-compares-michael-jordan-and-kobe-b-507658201?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
NIKCC, I know you are going to argue this until the cows come home.....But there you have it, from your very own beloved coach Jackson, who brought Kobe to all his rings....Even Phil knows whats up...theres no comparison.
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no comparison indeed. MJ is the best non-Bill Russell player ever until Lebron retires
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lol...the excerpts were made to look like he was talking about kobe overall, but it was taken from a passage where phil was describing kobe prior to his second run with phil, before he became a leader. nice find tho, young'n
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Phil already said last year "we have to take Jordan out of discussion" so don't know why people are so surprised about this - it was clear a long time ago.
Kobe is great in his own right tho - Top 3 Shooting Guard and Top 15 player of all-time.
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Phil already said last year "we have to take Jordan out of discussion" so don't know why people are so surprised about this - it was clear a long time ago.
Kobe is great in his own right tho - Top 3 Shooting Guard and Top 15 player of all-time.
lmfao....top 3 shooting guard? other than jordan, who's another shooting guard in the discussion with kobe? and top-15 player? could u be any more disrespectful? smfh
phil admits to having a flawed perception of kobe because of the Colorado incident. truth be told, kobe never really liked phil, he just respected him, but they had to force themselves to get along.
phil always changes what he says...a couple years back, phil also said kobe has better basketball skills than MJ.
http://www.youtube.com/v/LtvRatRkevw
he has better basketball skills than MJ, who u probably consider the GOAT, yet is only top 15 of all time by your standards? slap yaself.
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"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender," Jackson writes. "He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense."
and we don't even need to discuss offense...nobody can beat Jordan in that discussion except for 2 years of Wilt's prime
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"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender," Jackson writes. "He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense."
and we don't even need to discuss offense...nobody can beat Jordan in that discussion except for 2 years of Wilt's prime
lol@forgetting that Pippen was the cat shutting down opposing perimeter players for the bulls, while prime Kobe was counted on to shut down the entire perimeter on his own. Jordan had more leverage.
As for offense, Phil already said Kobe's a better scorer than MJ
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and that's a complete joke
MJ averaged 30 every damn year, only an idiot would say Kobe is better on offense
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and that's a complete joke
MJ averaged 30 every damn year, only an idiot would say Kobe is better on offense
Yeah with an offense built around him each of those seasons... Kobe drafted to the bulls in Jordan's shoes woulda had some 40 ppg seasons under his belt
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and that's a complete joke
MJ averaged 30 every damn year, only an idiot would say Kobe is better on offense
Yeah with an offense built around him each of those seasons... Kobe drafted to the bulls in Jordan's shoes woulda had some 40 ppg seasons under his belt
this might be the dumbest thing you've ever said
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Niggas on that Shallow-flow, "IF you COULD go back in time and IF Kobe COULD'VE played for the Bulls, then he PROBABLY WOULD'VE..."
Lmao. Get out.
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Kobe was bitching about this earlier today on Twitter... he said something like, Let's see how Jordan would've played on the same team as Shaq, or some shit.
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and that's a complete joke
MJ averaged 30 every damn year, only an idiot would say Kobe is better on offense
Yeah with an offense built around him each of those seasons... Kobe drafted to the bulls in Jordan's shoes woulda had some 40 ppg seasons under his belt
this might be the dumbest thing you've ever said
excellent argument..u make great points
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Kobe was bitching about this earlier today on Twitter... he said something like, Let's see how Jordan would've played on the same team as Shaq, or some shit.
thats real shit tho
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jordan and shaq would have won a title every year
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jordan and shaq would have won a title every year
jordan woulda never got along with shaqs demands of being the first option against phil's will. threepeat woulda never happened. pippen was a much more submissive superstar, which is exactly what jordan needed.
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But that wouldn't have happened because MJ would've had seniority over Shaq, and even at that point, MJ was that dude. Shaq wouldn't be able to argue with that.
Shaq and Kobe clashed a lot since they signed to the Lakers very close to each other but neither person wanted to yield to the other, even though both had decent arguments toward why they should be the star.
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Shaq was clearly the better of the two though...there's a reason Kobe never won an MVP while playing with the Big Shaqtus and Shaq won one while playing with Kobe
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Shaq was clearly the better of the two though...there's a reason Kobe never won an MVP while playing with the Big Shaqtus and Shaq won one while playing with Kobe
How many times we guna go through this? The numbers are neck and neck, with Kobe being the 2nd option cuz shaq had seniority. Phil wanted to run the offense through Kobe by 2001, but shaq wouldn't allow. It would be no different with a 21 year old MJ
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But that wouldn't have happened because MJ would've had seniority over Shaq, and even at that point, MJ was that dude. Shaq wouldn't be able to argue with that.
Shaq and Kobe clashed a lot since they signed to the Lakers very close to each other but neither person wanted to yield to the other, even though both had decent arguments toward why they should be the star.
lol mj would never have seniority over an ego like shaqs if he was just out of high school with shaq already being an established superstar. U crazy? Shaq was the most dominant and demanding player of his era for a reason.
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Shaq was clearly the better of the two though...there's a reason Kobe never won an MVP while playing with the Big Shaqtus and Shaq won one while playing with Kobe
How many times we guna go through this? The numbers are neck and neck, with Kobe being the 2nd option cuz shaq had seniority. Phil wanted to run the offense through Kobe by 2001, but shaq wouldn't allow. It would be no different with a 21 year old MJ
remember when i showed you those old write-ups on those championship years? they all center around Big Shaq. Kobe was Robin.
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Shaq was clearly the better of the two though...there's a reason Kobe never won an MVP while playing with the Big Shaqtus and Shaq won one while playing with Kobe
How many times we guna go through this? The numbers are neck and neck, with Kobe being the 2nd option cuz shaq had seniority. Phil wanted to run the offense through Kobe by 2001, but shaq wouldn't allow. It would be no different with a 21 year old MJ
remember when i showed you those old write-ups on those championship years? they all center around Big Shaq. Kobe was Robin.
why would robin average more attempts per game than batman? theres no such thing as a robin who averages 30 ppg.
runnin outta troll material
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he didn't average 30 doggy
22, 28 and 25
Shaq scored more PPG each year too
nice try though.
Allen Iverson said "that team starts and ends with Shaq".
Shaq was dropping 30 and grabbing 15 boards and you still think Kobe was the #1 on that team? that is lol worthy
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Michael Jordan is and will always be and go down as the greatest player that every lived end of thread Phils just another person saying the complete obvious anybody who argues has their opinion and I respect that but at the end of the day when people ask 100 years from now who was the greatest basketball player that ever graced the court the answer is always going to be MJ. End Thread
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Michael Jordan is and will always be and go down as the greatest player that every lived end of thread Phils just another person saying the complete obvious anybody who argues has their opinion and I respect that but at the end of the day when people ask 100 years from now who was the greatest basketball player that ever graced the court the answer is always going to be MJ. End Thread
bill russell had 11 rings
but MJ is the best since
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he didn't average 30 doggy
22, 28 and 25
Shaq scored more PPG each year too
nice try though.
Allen Iverson said "that team starts and ends with Shaq".
Shaq was dropping 30 and grabbing 15 boards and you still think Kobe was the #1 on that team? that is lol worthy
in 02-03, he averaged 30 alongside shaq...somehow, i doubt MJ coulda done that. without shaq, it woulda been 40 ppg
again, the offense was ran through shaq, but kobe was not a "robin", it was a 1-2 punch, with both players being alpha males and both sharing leadership duties, depending on the match-up. with each passing year, it became more of kobe's team and less of shaq's. this is what had shaq trippin in the first place.
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Michael Jordan is and will always be and go down as the greatest player that every lived end of thread Phils just another person saying the complete obvious anybody who argues has their opinion and I respect that but at the end of the day when people ask 100 years from now who was the greatest basketball player that ever graced the court the answer is always going to be MJ. End Thread
thats what the general public is made to believe, yes...but it doesnt make it true. if someone argued wilt, magic, kareem, russell, kobe, bird, etc. as the greatest, theres no problem with that. jordan was simply the most marketed and had the most backing by the league, so the push he got was kinda like kendrick getting a push from interscope. without that push, he'd still be a great, but no one would be on his nuts as hard as they are now. jordan is a brand. magic, kobe, bird etc were not brands. thats the main difference... of course, when u have that much behind u, ur guna be made to look unotuchable. people who could look past marketing can see that there are tons of players who have been the greatest at what they do, and none are the undisputed GOAT.
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both 2-guards, both brilliant sociopaths.
Wait a second... how the hell was Jordan a socio-path? That's bullshit!
(By the way, I don't think Kobe is either.. it's just I don't know as much about Kobe)
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Michael Jordan is and will always be and go down as the greatest player that every lived end of thread Phils just another person saying the complete obvious anybody who argues has their opinion and I respect that but at the end of the day when people ask 100 years from now who was the greatest basketball player that ever graced the court the answer is always going to be MJ. End Thread
bill russell had 11 rings
but MJ is the best since
How many teams were in the league then? And do some reading, the Celtics had a near monopoly on top talent at the time
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This nigga is going so deep into his "if" arguement, we got MJ in a Laker uniform. Stop playing that game because you're losing.
We got stats, the accolades and the approval of the coach who watched them both in their primes.
I love how NIK talks like Phil forgot Kobe played with Shaq and didn't factor that in.
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Phil said the same thing last night on Leno. The man who has spent the most team with both guys says Jordan is better, so I'd say that should kill this argument, but of course it won't...
Aside from Kobe and his devoted fans, who actually thinks Kobe is on Jordan's level anyway?
More championships
More regular season Mvps
More playoff mvps
Higher points per game
Etc etc etc
Phil finally saying it is the nail in the coffin to those who question this.
Kobe is a GREAT GREAT player. It's not a knock that he isn't as good as Jordan...being one of the best EVER is pretty damn impressive after all
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Guys, NIK is experiencing the Five Stages of Grief. He is currently at stage 2. Give him some time.
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he didn't average 30 doggy
22, 28 and 25
Shaq scored more PPG each year too
nice try though.
Allen Iverson said "that team starts and ends with Shaq".
Shaq was dropping 30 and grabbing 15 boards and you still think Kobe was the #1 on that team? that is lol worthy
in 02-03, he averaged 30 alongside shaq...somehow, i doubt MJ coulda done that. without shaq, it woulda been 40 ppg
again, the offense was ran through shaq, but kobe was not a "robin", it was a 1-2 punch, with both players being alpha males and both sharing leadership duties, depending on the match-up. with each passing year, it became more of kobe's team and less of shaq's. this is what had shaq trippin in the first place.
where's the ring in 02-03? oh yeah tim duncan fist fucked ya'll in the playoffs :D
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sociopaths run the world and get shit done.
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Phil said the same thing last night on Leno. The man who has spent the most team with both guys says Jordan is better, so I'd say that should kill this argument, but of course it won't...
Aside from Kobe and his devoted fans, who actually thinks Kobe is on Jordan's level anyway?
More championships
More regular season Mvps
More playoff mvps
Higher points per game
Etc etc etc
Phil finally saying it is the nail in the coffin to those who question this.
Kobe is a GREAT GREAT player. It's not a knock that he isn't as good as Jordan...being one of the best EVER is pretty damn impressive after all
I Co-sign and overall MJ-phil said was a better leader while kobe was an anti social and very well known for being a Team chemistry killer/huge asshole.
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he didn't average 30 doggy
22, 28 and 25
Shaq scored more PPG each year too
nice try though.
Allen Iverson said "that team starts and ends with Shaq".
Shaq was dropping 30 and grabbing 15 boards and you still think Kobe was the #1 on that team? that is lol worthy
in 02-03, he averaged 30 alongside shaq...somehow, i doubt MJ coulda done that. without shaq, it woulda been 40 ppg
again, the offense was ran through shaq, but kobe was not a "robin", it was a 1-2 punch, with both players being alpha males and both sharing leadership duties, depending on the match-up. with each passing year, it became more of kobe's team and less of shaq's. this is what had shaq trippin in the first place.
where's the ring in 02-03? oh yeah tim duncan fist fucked ya'll in the playoffs :D
Playoffs:
Won NBA Finals (4-2) versus New Jersey Nets
Won NBA Western Conference Finals (4-2) versus Dallas Mavericks
Won NBA Western Conference Semifinals (4-2) versus Los Angeles Lakers
Won NBA Western Conference First Round (4-2) versus Phoenix Suns
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Kobe is a GREAT GREAT player. It's not a knock that he isn't as good as Jordan...being one of the best EVER is pretty damn impressive after all
End thread for eternity and make this quote a sticky, lol.
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https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/335485124219129856
"The comparisons are #apples2oranges Wonder what the perception would be if M played wit @shaq instead #differentroles #differentcareerpaths"
-Kobe
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kobe butt hurt
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https://twitter.com/kobebryant/status/335485124219129856
"The comparisons are #apples2oranges Wonder what the perception would be if M played wit @shaq instead #differentroles #differentcareerpaths"
-Kobe
Kobe's response is as laughably predictable as yours.
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It's true tho.. Only an idiot or a huge kobe hater/mj lover would deny it
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face it, kobe will never be viewed as good as MJ
nobody will unless Lebron can win at least 3 more championships and pass Kareem on the scoring list for #1 all time.
a lot of older people might take Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain because one has 11 rings and the other dropped 50 a game for a whole season and nobody else even dropped 40 in history.
Kobe? he's lost a few nba finals compared to MJ's 6-0. he's only got one MVP and MJ has 5. MJ has 6 finals MVP's and Kobe only has 2.
Kobe has played 17 years and lead the league in scoring 4 times. Michael Jordan? 11 times in 16 years.
just face it...he really doesn't compare.
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face it, kobe will never be viewed as good as MJ
nobody will unless Lebron can win at least 3 more championships and pass Kareem on the scoring list for #1 all time.
a lot of older people might take Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain because one has 11 rings and the other dropped 50 a game for a whole season and nobody else even dropped 40 in history.
Kobe? he's lost a few nba finals compared to MJ's 6-0. he's only got one MVP and MJ has 5. MJ has 6 finals MVP's and Kobe only has 2.
Kobe has played 17 years and lead the league in scoring 4 times. Michael Jordan? 11 times in 16 years.
just face it...he really doesn't compare.
Different career paths make for different accolades. U said Jordan is 6-0 in the finals.. Well that makes 10 years where he wasn't even good enough to win the conference. Kobe made the finals 7 times.. 1 more than MJ. And he's won with less. Apples 2 oranges.
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LOL. WON WITH LESS.
Won three with the best center ever, who you admit yourself is the #1 option...even Wade doesn't take credit to be the #1 option. And then made it three times with undeniably the best roster in the NBA, aside the Celtics when the rest of the league had just one all-star per team; Bron, Dwight, Wade, Dirk, Melo, etc.
Retarded man.
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LOL. WON WITH LESS.
Won three with the best center ever, who you admit yourself is the #1 option...even Wade doesn't take credit to be the #1 option. And then made it three times with undeniably the best roster in the NBA, aside the Celtics when the rest of the league had just one all-star per team; Bron, Dwight, Wade, Dirk, Melo, etc.
Retarded man.
lol, so the lakers in '09 and '10 without kobe are better than the 50+ win threepeat bulls without jordan?
talk about retard, u limp-wristed idiot.
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I mean, I'll never know...so I guess that's a pretty fucking stupid argument lmao.
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I mean, I'll never know...so I guess that's a pretty fucking stupid argument lmao.
what do u mean ull never know? the fact that u dont know just proves what an unknowledgeable basketball fan u are. i dont expect u to be on my level, but come on, now.
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most points per game in NBA playoff history:
1. Michael Jordan* 33.45
2. Allen Iverson 29.73
3. Jerry West* 29.13
4. Kevin Durant 28.63
5. LeBron James 28.15
6. Elgin Baylor* 27.04
7. George Gervin* 26.98
8. Dirk Nowitzki 25.95
9. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.90
10. Carmelo Anthony 25.65
* Hall of Famer
where's Kobe? :D
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AI > LeBron
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AI > LeBron
they are both equal as scorers but Lebron can rebound and play defense on all 5 positions if needed. AI couldn't play defense on any position :D
and actually Lebron is a better scorer because AI had way more attempts and missed a lot of shots. Melo style but worse.
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AI > LeBron
they are both equal as scorers but Lebron can rebound and play defense on all 5 positions if needed. AI couldn't play defense on any position :D
and actually Lebron is a better scorer because AI had way more attempts and missed a lot of shots. Melo style but worse.
. And at the end of the day, it's still Kobe>Bird>LeBron
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AI > LeBron
they are both equal as scorers but Lebron can rebound and play defense on all 5 positions if needed. AI couldn't play defense on any position :D
and actually Lebron is a better scorer because AI had way more attempts and missed a lot of shots. Melo style but worse.
. And at the end of the day, it's still Kobe>Bird>LeBron
bird>rapist
bird > lebro
lebron > rapist
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AI > LeBron
they are both equal as scorers but Lebron can rebound and play defense on all 5 positions if needed. AI couldn't play defense on any position :D
and actually Lebron is a better scorer because AI had way more attempts and missed a lot of shots. Melo style but worse.
. And at the end of the day, it's still Kobe>Bird>LeBron
bird>rapist
bird > lebro
lebron > rapist
lol u coulda just put bird>lebron>rapist, but when u wrong, u wrong
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I mean, I'll never know...so I guess that's a pretty fucking stupid argument lmao.
what do u mean ull never know? the fact that u dont know just proves what an unknowledgeable basketball fan u are. i dont expect u to be on my level, but come on, now.
It's just an "if" argument. Kobe played every game for those teams, how am I suppose to know how they'd be without him?
I'd think pretty good with two seven footers...but you'll never know.
....so we'll just stick to the facts we can visibly see that have no bias.
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It's Kobe>LeBron>Bird
And that's coming from unbiased opinion.
LeBron is a beast, but neither Bird or LeBron gets mentioned next to Jordan.
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It's Kobe>LeBron>Bird
And that's coming from unbiased opinion.
LeBron is a beast, but neither Bird or LeBron gets mentioned next to Jordan.
do you not hear all the ESPN arguments every two minutes about Lebron and Jordan? lmao
and Bird is the only player to win 3 MVP's in a row.
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and Bird is the only player to win 3 MVP's in a row.
For now. ;)
All LeBron has to do now is win a few more rings.
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I mean, I'll never know...so I guess that's a pretty fucking stupid argument lmao.
what do u mean ull never know? the fact that u dont know just proves what an unknowledgeable basketball fan u are. i dont expect u to be on my level, but come on, now.
It's just an "if" argument. Kobe played every game for those teams, how am I suppose to know how they'd be without him?
I'd think pretty good with two seven footers...but you'll never know.
....so we'll just stick to the facts we can visibly see that have no bias.
if ur lookin at shit objectively, stats are not the only thing u go by when comparing who was the better talent
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It's Kobe>LeBron>Bird
And that's coming from unbiased opinion.
LeBron is a beast, but neither Bird or LeBron gets mentioned next to Jordan.
do you not hear all the ESPN arguments every two minutes about Lebron and Jordan? lmao
and Bird is the only player to win 3 MVP's in a row.
These are the years Kobe SHOULD have won the MVP, and most of the voting journalist admit it now.
2002-2003 - Avg 30 ppg 6.9 rebs 5 assts - Teamed with Shaq, writers were using the same argument NIK uses against LeBron (also the first year Kobe out performed Shaq and established himself as the Laker's number 1 option, this also made the Kobe/Shaq rivalry very touchy.)
2005-2006 - Avg 35 ppg 5rebs 4 assts - Rape case, dude was only the 2nd player since the Wilt era to average 35ppg, the other was His Airness
2006-2007 - Avg 31 ppg 6 rebs 4 assts - Again rape case aftermath, most dominate player in the league.
2007-2008 - Avg 28 ppg 5 rebs 5 assts - Only Time he won MVP
Again, Kobe>LeBron>Bird
Kobe is the closest you'll get to Jordan that you'll ever see again. Sorry you missed it by hating.
LeBron is actually close to Bird in terms of stats than any other athlete. He's game by the eye looks closer to Magics, but his numbers are closer to Bird. The difference is if LeBron and Bird played one on one, I'd put my money on LeBron to beat Bird. So that leaves LeBron vs. Kobe. If we are talking prime for prime, then I'm going 2005-2006 Kobe Bryant, same guy who scored 81 points in one game 62 against Dallas in only 3 quarters.
Your mistake is you are comparing prime for prime. If you compare 2013 LeBron vs. 2013 Kobe, then you are right, LeBron>Kobe. But prime for prime, I think you forgot how truly great Kobe Bryant really was.
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i think he knows kobe is better...just the fact that he's a huge lebron fan/kobe hater makes him state otherwise
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Nash swept Kobe in the playoffs that year...he deserved MVP fair and square
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how did Kobe deserve the 06-07 MVP?? Dirk lead his team to 67 wins. Nash was also voted ahead of Kobe too.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp
and 02-03 look at what KG did, HE truly deserved that MVP
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2003.html#mvp
23 points, 13.4 rebounds and 6 assists per game
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how did Kobe deserve the 06-07 MVP?? Dirk lead his team to 67 wins. Nash was also voted ahead of Kobe too.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp
and 02-03 look at what KG did, HE truly deserved that MVP
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2003.html#mvp
23 points, 13.4 rebounds and 6 assists per game
because kobe was still the more valuable player. the fact that he led a team consisting of kwame brown-smush parker-luke walton in the starting 5 to the playoffs in back-to-back seasons is astonishing in itself. dirk on those laker teams woulda had them at 20 wins, tops.
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Nash swept Kobe in the playoffs that year...he deserved MVP fair and square
HA
Actually it was a 7 game series, the Suns won a game with Kobe scoring 50 POINTS!
The next year, it was a 5 game series and Kobe scored 30+ in 3 out of 4 games, and the other game he basically protested his horrible teammates and kept passing the ball, Odom scored 17 and the next best scorer was Walton with 10, no one else in double digits.
Say what you will about Kobe, during those years, in those years, you couldn't mess with him. He was the best player in the league, many writers admit that now and they cite the rape trail as why he wasn't voted MVP those years. On the flip side, Nash was a good player but he was the "safest" MVP the league could have. He was open minded (he started talking about White Privilege in a majority black league), he had a family man image and he was liked all around. Sports writers admit it today, Kobe was robbed.
The 2003 year, Kobe was the best player in the game. It was given to Duncan. That's a bit more understandable than the Nash win. Kobe was the best player, Duncan was the best player on the best team. That comes into play in a close race. Garnett was up there too. Still, if Kobe didn't have Shaq, people would talk about how great he was.
Let's face it man, when you are arguing prime for prime, you are GREATLY mismatched trying to argue against Kobe. Kobe's best was only second to Jordan. (at least since the 60's) 2003 award was close, as the voting showed. But that was the year that Kobe, with Shaq taking huge numbers still, showed why he was the best player in the league. But when in doubt, they went best player on best team, which makes sense. 2006-2007 awards made NO sense. Kobe had a crap team, carried them to the playoffs, carried that dead weight center they had named... awe shit I forgot his name... to be a starting center for a playoff team even though he scored no more than 7 points in any game against the Suns. He carried Smush Parker to the playoffs. Kobe even made him better, as Parker was actually scoring 10ppg those two years, the only time he ever averaged over 2ppg.
Simply put, Kobe at his best was on some historic shit.
So I say again... Kobe>LeBron>Bird
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you sound like an idiot m-frogg
wilt chamberlain's prime which consists of scoring 50 and 44 points for a whole season can't match kobe's?
oscar robertson can't match kobe?? as I said before, Bird was the MVP for 3 straight years and Kobe was not. You can try to rewrite history but Nash deserved those MVP's because he lead his teams. 18.6 and 12 assists a game isn't slouch shit. neither is what Tim Duncan did in 02-03 (btw his team beat kobe in the playoffs too)
i'd also take Magic and Shaq in their primes over Kobe too. same with Hakeem when he was running through every center in the playoffs (ewing, robinson, shaq, vlade etc)
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Pure shooting: Kobe
Scoring: Toss up
Passing: LeBron by a landslide.
Rebounding: LeBron by a landslide.
Defense: LeBron.
Setting up teammates: LeBron by a landslide.
Fast break finishing: LeBron
Scoring late: Kobe
And if you want to talk things that stats don't show, Shaq was 1st option, Wade deferred to LeBron to be 2nd option when having a Hall of Fame teammate. Kobe also had the greatest coach of all-time, LeBron took previously unemployed Mike Brown to the Finals with Daniel Gibson.
I'll give Kobe the current nod all-time for his achievements, but LeBron's on pace to shatter them all.
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you sound like an idiot m-frogg
wilt chamberlain's prime which consists of scoring 50 and 44 points for a whole season can't match kobe's?
oscar robertson can't match kobe?? as I said before, Bird was the MVP for 3 straight years and Kobe was not. You can try to rewrite history but Nash deserved those MVP's because he lead his teams. 18.6 and 12 assists a game isn't slouch shit. neither is what Tim Duncan did in 02-03 (btw his team beat kobe in the playoffs too)
i'd also take Magic and Shaq in their primes over Kobe too. same with Hakeem when he was running through every center in the playoffs (ewing, robinson, shaq, vlade etc)
Actually, last guy to average 35ppg was Rick Berry, not Wilt, though it was in the Wilt era. I called it the Wilt era because it was different, high scoring games were not as rare as dominate players who could play at a high level today, smashed lesser talent. Oscar Robinson at his best also played in this era. In the 70's, he was still a great player, but not what he was. So I take the Big O out of this argument. Same with Wilt. As I said, since the Wilt era.
LMAO at the Nash argument. You sound like a broken record, one, two you sound like Skip Bayless, and three the writers themselves admit Kobe didn't win because of the rape trail. Nash was good, any other years, he'd be a finalist for MVP. Kobe's prime though was historically good. Numbers that only Jordan has had since the Wilt era. Only Jordan has touched those numbers, and Jordan won MVPs. Of course, you like to agitate, so I'll just leave it at that.
Prime for prime, Since the Wilt era, it's very laughable to put Shaq over Kobe. Dude, I am a Shaq fan. Check all my post since this board was opened about the Lakers. I wanted Shaq over Kobe. It doesn't matter who the better player is, when you have a Shaq, you win titles. While Kobe proved he can win titles without a dominate center, and do it two times in a row. When it comes down to it, Kobe is just a flat out better player than Shaq. And prime for prime, Kobe was a more dominate player than the force that was Shaq.
Bird, Kobe beats Bird in a one on one game, same with Magic. Now Magic is a bit different because he was a team player, so he made everyone else around him better. So there is an argument, and I've made that argument many times to explain why Magic was as good as Jordan. But if you accept Jordan over Magic, then you HAVE to accept Kobe over Magic. Plus Magic has called Kobe the better player.
Lastly, Hakeem. Hakeem is like Magic. I'd actually listen to that argument. Hakeem was a better center than Shaq. Hakeem might have been the second greatest post player in league behind Kareem. But then when you bring in Kareem, it becomes clear that Hakeem ain't better than him. (head to head stats with an old wasted up Kareem are very much in favor of Kareem.) Now it's been said that Kobe is the greatest Laker ever, even by people who played with Kareem. So if Kareem>Hakeem, and Kobe>Kareem, then it is Kobe>Hakeem.
Pure shooting: Kobe
Scoring: Toss up
Passing: LeBron by a landslide.
Rebounding: LeBron by a landslide.
Defense: LeBron.
Setting up teammates: LeBron by a landslide.
Fast break finishing: LeBron
Scoring late: Kobe
And if you want to talk things that stats don't show, Shaq was 1st option, Wade deferred to LeBron to be 2nd option when having a Hall of Fame teammate. Kobe also had the greatest coach of all-time, LeBron took previously unemployed Mike Brown to the Finals with Daniel Gibson.
I'll give Kobe the current nod all-time for his achievements, but LeBron's on pace to shatter them all.
The LeBron chapter is not finished, but my problem with LeBron is that his game is not suited to last into his 30's. Kobe's game could actually allow him to be a shooter off the bench (he'd never take that role, but he's actually a very good 3 point shooter who's tall and takes clutch shots, there are many players who make a career of only doing that.) LeBron's game consist of him being so strong and powerful that he can get inside and create from the middle. In a game, prime for prime though, I just don't see LeBron beating Kobe. Kobe is not weak himself, and he is only one inch shorter. Kobe's who game is what gives him the nod over LeBron.
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It's kind of odd the only knock you have of LeBron's game is your speculation of how it will hold up in his 30's.
This year, they spent a month comparing LeBron to Jordan. The comparison coming one ring should speak to LeBron's game itself. Kobe didn't see that after one ring, they were busy promoting Shaq.
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It's kind of odd the only knock you have of LeBron's game is your speculation of how it will hold up in his 30's.
This year, they spent a month comparing LeBron to Jordan. The comparison coming one ring should speak to LeBron's game itself. Kobe didn't see that after one ring, they were busy promoting Shaq.
Kobe's first ring was because of Shaq, that is true, but Kobe was also 21 at the time, and the next year Kobe was averaging 30ppg with Shaq and the Lakers had 2 years of straight dominance, Kobe only being 22 and 23. I put up his number at 24, and he had better numbers than Shaq. So Kobe did it at a younger age, which people are not going to compare a 23 year old to Michael Jordan. But Kobe more than proved he was just that damn good.
I am not a fan of LeBron vs. Michael. They are two different players. LeBron vs. Bird, LeBron vs. Magic, fine. But LeBron vs. MJ then boils down to preference of what type of player you want. It's like comparing centers in this whole argument. You really can't. You can compare Shaq to Hakeem, and Hakeem to Kareem, but when you throw in Kobe, it doesn't make sense. LeBron is an old school player, and as I said, right now he's the best in the world. You can't fuck with that argument. No one, today is better than LeBron. My thing is LeBron better than Kobe prime for prime, no. But it depends on your style of game.
Since the 1990's, the general standard for best player has changed. Before it was either you like big men (Wilt) or you liked team players (Oscar, Magic). In the 90's, Jordan took the same type of game as Dr. J or Elgin Baylor and put the final piece of the puzzle to make the shoot first type players seen as in a different light. Before people liked the all around team player, or the big man. The shooting guard was a role player who usually could hit a jumper or a timely three. Byron Scott, Danny Ainge. Rarely did you see a shooting guard who was the star of the team, or a score first type player. You had Dr. J (SF), or George Gervin or Jerry West, but none had the full game of MJ. Kobe then took that and came very close. So what you have now is a player who redefined what we think of the greatest of all time, and a player who came after him who tried to be better than Jordan in his own game and came close to matching him.
As I said, prime for prime, give me 81 points in one game Kobe over today's LeBron any day.
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I don't see why. All 81 point Kobe proved was that he couldn't make the players around him better like LeBron was doing in Cleveland, couldn't win without all-star caliber talent surrounding him and just whined to management and threatened to leave them.
Basically all that's here is that you prefer to watch Kobe just stroke it when he's feeling it rather than LeBron pick and tear apart a defense. Because outside of a much purer jumpshot, LeBron takes him everywhere else.
I don't know really see why you're against MJ/Bron. Virtually the same player except Jordan's mid range game is better, and LeBron has a better post up ability and passing game. But other than that they were both unstoppable taking it to the rack, mediocre three point shooters, elite defenders, etc.
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I don't see why. All 81 point Kobe proved was that he couldn't make the players around him better like LeBron was doing in Cleveland, couldn't win without all-star caliber talent surrounding him and just whined to management and threatened to leave them.
Basically all that's here is that you prefer to watch Kobe just stroke it when he's feeling it rather than LeBron pick and tear apart a defense. Because outside of a much purer jumpshot, LeBron takes him everywhere else.
I don't know really see why you're against MJ/Bron. Virtually the same player except Jordan's mid range game is better, and LeBron has a better post up ability and passing game. But other than that they were both unstoppable taking it to the rack, mediocre three point shooters, elite defenders, etc.
Same player?
LeBron is a better passer, a better rebounder and Jordan was a better scorer and had more drive. Basically the same comparison to Kobe.
Kobe scoring 81 shows that he can do it what it takes to win. No one has scored 81 since Wilt scored 100. That's saying something.
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The difference is you sit there and act like Kobe put the cape on and supernaturally played beyond himself just to win that game, where I see Kobe just being hot, didn't need the final 15-20 points, but was forcing contact and shooting there's early in the shot clock in the final five minutes just to add to the total.
If he did that like once a month and broke out for 65+, I'd agree with you, but it wasn't him "elevating his game" for the win, it was just a hot shooting night.
Kobe early this year averaged waaaay more shots per game than whoever was the closest second to him and with a farrrrr better team than when he scored 81, scored about half of that in his "breakout performances"...also lead the Lakers to a pretty shitty record with that style of play.
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Pure shooting: Kobe
Scoring: Toss up LMAO
Passing: LeBron by a landslide.
Rebounding: LeBron by a landslide.
Defense: LeBron. LMAO
Setting up teammates: LeBron by a landslide.
Fast break finishing: LeBron
Scoring late: Kobe
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I don't see why. All 81 point Kobe proved was that he couldn't make the players around him better like LeBron was doing in Cleveland, couldn't win without all-star caliber talent surrounding him and just whined to management and threatened to leave them.
Basically all that's here is that you prefer to watch Kobe just stroke it when he's feeling it rather than LeBron pick and tear apart a defense. Because outside of a much purer jumpshot, LeBron takes him everywhere else.
I don't know really see why you're against MJ/Bron. Virtually the same player except Jordan's mid range game is better, and LeBron has a better post up ability and passing game. But other than that they were both unstoppable taking it to the rack, mediocre three point shooters, elite defenders, etc.
lol@"couldnt make the players around him better"...he took kwame, luke, and smush to the playoffs! and they all had their best years playing next to kobe.
i'll take it a step further and say kobe is a better passer than lebron. is he as willing a passer? no. but if kobe wanted, he could average 9+ assists per game, and he already proved this when the lakers needed him to. he's simply not as passive as lebron on offense, but still puts up great assist numbers for a shooting guard. he's also more of a leader than lebron..lebron likes to fall back in the shadows and go unnoticeable for long stretches. kobe is an in-your-face leader who demands perfection at all times ala jordan, and even is seen as an extension of the coach when addressing teammates. why do u think kobe was the leader of those olympic teams? come on, now.
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it was just a hot shooting night.
:stupid:
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If he did that like once a month and broke out for 65+, I'd agree with you, but it wasn't him "elevating his game" for the win, it was just a hot shooting night. He had many, many games over 40 points and he was over 35 points over half the season.
LMAO... Hot shooting night, well that's one historic hot shooting night! Actually, make that one historic shooting season. Dude, trust me, when you look at it without bias, Kobe in the mid to late 2000's was one of the greatest players ever, and LeBron hasn't touched that yet.
19-Apr vs New_Orleans 35
16-Apr vs Phoenix 43
14-Apr vs Portland 50
11-Apr vs Golden_State 31
9-Apr vs L.A.Clippers 38
7-Apr at Phoenix 51
6-Apr at Denver 42
2-Apr vs Houston 43
31-Mar at Seattle 43
30-Mar vs San_Antonio 23
26-Mar vs New_Orleans 30
24-Mar vs Milwaukee 43
22-Mar vs Sacramento 28
20-Mar at Boston 43
19-Mar at Cleveland 38
17-Mar at New_Jersey 24
15-Mar vs Minnesota 25
14-Mar at Sacramento 30
12-Mar vs Seattle 22
10-Mar at San_Antonio 29
8-Mar at New_Orleans 40
6-Mar vs San_Antonio 43
4-Mar vs Detroit 40
3-Mar at Golden_State 42
1-Mar at Portland 35
28-Feb vs Orlando 28
26-Feb vs Boston 40
24-Feb at L.A.Clippers 39
23-Feb vs Sacramento 36
21-Feb vs Portland 27
15-Feb vs Atlanta 39
13-Feb vs Utah 23
11-Feb vs Memphis 26
8-Feb at Houston 32
7-Feb at Dallas 24
4-Feb at New_Orleans 35
3-Feb at Charlotte 35
1-Feb at Indiana 26
31-Jan at New_York 40
29-Jan at Detroit 39
27-Jan vs Golden_State 30
22-Jan vs Toronto 81
20-Jan at Phoenix 37
19-Jan at Sacramento 51
16-Jan vs Miami 37
14-Jan at Golden_State 38
12-Jan vs Cleveland 27
11-Jan at Portland 41
9-Jan vs Indiana 45
7-Jan at L.A.Clippers 50
6-Jan vs Philadelphia 48
28-Dec vs Memphis 45
26-Dec at Washington 31
25-Dec at Miami 37
23-Dec at Orlando 21
20-Dec vs Dallas 62
18-Dec vs Houston 24
16-Dec vs Washington 41
14-Dec at Memphis 27
12-Dec at Dallas 43
10-Dec at Minnesota 35
9-Dec at Chicago 23
7-Dec at Toronto 11
6-Dec at Milwaukee 33
4-Dec vs Charlotte 29
2-Dec vs Minnesota 20
1-Dec at Utah 30
29-Nov at San_Antonio 25
27-Nov vs New_Jersey 46
24-Nov vs Seattle 34
20-Nov vs Chicago 43
18-Nov vs L.A.Clippers 36
16-Nov vs New_York 42
14-Nov at Memphis 18
11-Nov at Philadelphia 17
9-Nov at Minnesota 28
8-Nov at Atlanta 37
6-Nov vs Denver 37
3-Nov vs Phoenix 39
2-Nov at Denver 33
Also, don't compare Kobe 2012-2013 to any Kobe between 2000-2010. That's not fair at all. that's like me comparing Wizard MJ to 90's Bulls MJ. Kobe was good this year, best SG is the game. But he wasn't as great as those Kobe's. Kobe in that era was top 5 all time.
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Look at those numbers, all half of 81. Why aren't there more 60+ games to defend it wasn't just a better night than usual?
He did have nobody, but I mean if a Melo, Durant even LeBron put the ball up 35 times a game, they'd do something similar.
Last year in the playoffs against the Pacers and Celtics LeBron realized he needed to score to win they game, took the game in his own hands and dropped 45+. Kobe just did it in the regular season because he had no choice.
I never said he wasn't one of the greatest players ever. I actually acknowledged in this very thread, all-time you have to give it to Kobe right now because of what he accomplished. But like I said, LeBron is on pace to shatter it all.
Also LeBron's IQ allows him to get his team the best look every possession. Notice all you've mentioned so far is Kobe's scoring ability. If the Heat and the Lakers score 100 points each, Kobe will be responsible for 50 points, LeBron will be responsible for 85 of them.
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Look at those numbers, all half of 81. Why aren't there more 60+ games to defend it wasn't just a better night than usual?
He did have nobody, but I mean if a Melo, Durant even LeBron put the ball up 35 times a game, they'd do something similar.
Last year in the playoffs against the Pacers and Celtics LeBron realized he needed to score to win they game, took the game in his own hands and dropped 45+. Kobe just did it in the regular season because he had no choice.
I never said he wasn't one of the greatest players ever. I actually acknowledged in this very thread, all-time you have to give it to Kobe right now because of what he accomplished. But like I said, LeBron is on pace to shatter it all.
Also LeBron's IQ allows him to get his team the best look every possession. Notice all you've mentioned so far is Kobe's scoring ability. If the Heat and the Lakers score 100 points each, Kobe will be responsible for 50 points, LeBron will be responsible for 85 of them.
LeBron is on pace to match Magic and Bird. That's great company. But until he does it, it means nothing.
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Look at those numbers, all half of 81. Why aren't there more 60+ games to defend it wasn't just a better night than usual?
He did have nobody, but I mean if a Melo, Durant even LeBron put the ball up 35 times a game, they'd do something similar.
Last year in the playoffs against the Pacers and Celtics LeBron realized he needed to score to win they game, took the game in his own hands and dropped 45+. Kobe just did it in the regular season because he had no choice.
I never said he wasn't one of the greatest players ever. I actually acknowledged in this very thread, all-time you have to give it to Kobe right now because of what he accomplished. But like I said, LeBron is on pace to shatter it all.
Also LeBron's IQ allows him to get his team the best look every possession. Notice all you've mentioned so far is Kobe's scoring ability. If the Heat and the Lakers score 100 points each, Kobe will be responsible for 50 points, LeBron will be responsible for 85 of them.
LeBron is on pace to match Magic and Bird. That's great company. But until he does it, it means nothing.
no he's not...by his 9th season, magic already had 5 titles. lebron has 1. he's on pace to matching dr. j, who won his first nba ring late in his career, just like lebron. dr. j did it with less, though.
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We'll let his career play out. I once thought LeBron was closer to Dr. J, but when I looked up the numbers, the closest player he fit was Larry Bird. So I'll stick with that.
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numbers dont tell it all...dr. j's prime was actually in the ABA, where he put up better numbers than lebron
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numbers dont tell it all...dr. j's prime was actually in the ABA, where he put up better numbers than lebron
Dr. J in his prime would have killed 99% of the players today in the NBA, I do believe that. I told my students that watching LeBron would have been like watching Dr. J, in that he did things no one else could do up to that point. The awe that people looked at Dr. J is only closest to LeBron. Jordan and Dominic both took parts of Dr. J and made it their own. But Dr. J was better than Dominic, not better than Jordan, and LeBron is more comparable to Dr. J than Kobe or MJ. Still, numbers wise, I was just saying LeBron is closest to Bird. The eye test says Dr. J, but by the numbers he's closest to Bird.
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Look at those numbers, all half of 81. Why aren't there more 60+ games to defend it wasn't just a better night than usual?
He did have nobody, but I mean if a Melo, Durant even LeBron put the ball up 35 times a game, they'd do something similar.
Last year in the playoffs against the Pacers and Celtics LeBron realized he needed to score to win they game, took the game in his own hands and dropped 45+. Kobe just did it in the regular season because he had no choice.
I never said he wasn't one of the greatest players ever. I actually acknowledged in this very thread, all-time you have to give it to Kobe right now because of what he accomplished. But like I said, LeBron is on pace to shatter it all.
Also LeBron's IQ allows him to get his team the best look every possession. Notice all you've mentioned so far is Kobe's scoring ability. If the Heat and the Lakers score 100 points each, Kobe will be responsible for 50 points, LeBron will be responsible for 85 of them.
LeBron is on pace to match Magic and Bird. That's great company. But until he does it, it means nothing.
I'd say a majority of people hold Bird and Magic in a brighter light than Kobe anyway.
But still, so far all you've mentioned is Kobe's scoring. You're putting so much stock in Kobe heaving up 30+ a game and talking his scoring is unmeasurable and LeBron, barring injury is going to end his career with more points scored lol.
You've been reading NIKs posts for too long.
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Look at those numbers, all half of 81. Why aren't there more 60+ games to defend it wasn't just a better night than usual?
He did have nobody, but I mean if a Melo, Durant even LeBron put the ball up 35 times a game, they'd do something similar.
Last year in the playoffs against the Pacers and Celtics LeBron realized he needed to score to win they game, took the game in his own hands and dropped 45+. Kobe just did it in the regular season because he had no choice.
I never said he wasn't one of the greatest players ever. I actually acknowledged in this very thread, all-time you have to give it to Kobe right now because of what he accomplished. But like I said, LeBron is on pace to shatter it all.
Also LeBron's IQ allows him to get his team the best look every possession. Notice all you've mentioned so far is Kobe's scoring ability. If the Heat and the Lakers score 100 points each, Kobe will be responsible for 50 points, LeBron will be responsible for 85 of them.
LeBron is on pace to match Magic and Bird. That's great company. But until he does it, it means nothing.
I'd say a majority of people hold Bird and Magic in a brighter light than Kobe anyway.
But still, so far all you've mentioned is Kobe's scoring. You're putting so much stock in Kobe heaving up 30+ a game and talking his scoring is unmeasurable and LeBron, barring injury is going to end his career with more points scored lol.
You've been reading NIKs posts for too long.
Nah, I just watch the games, and from what I've seen, in his Prime Kobe was the best player I've seen not named Michael Jordan. It's more than scoring, it's doing everything, and you forget Kobe was averaging 6 assist and 6 rebounds a game to go with those 40+ games. I see LeBron now, and I am just not convinced he's better than Kobe. And you know I'd say he was better if I thought he was. But from what I see, Kobe was just so damn good, the game too damn easy for him. LeBron is just a physical beast, and he over powers Kobe today, and I'll admit that. But Kobe at his best was dunking on Howard, he was dunking on every center and he was so damn good. Kobe is a bettered skilled player than LeBron, he is a true student of the game. And with that, when his body was at his best, Kobe just could not be beat. Except by Jordan. Kobe couldn't beat Jordan.
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I mean, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I feel your argument has a taste of bias from your childhood and the bulk of what you're saying is "what you saw". Kobe put you in awe when you watched him in his prime and that's fine and you're entitled to your opinion.
But to me I don't care if you score from half court shots, threes, midrange, fadeaway, postups, a combination of all of them, whatever. Bottom line, they both score about 30 a game career-wise and and LeBron takes him in almost every other facet. Not that Kobe can't do the things LeBron hasn't, just LeBron does them and better.
Like NIK said Kobe is a better passer...completely blasphemous, but whatever for the sake of argument lets say Kobe is close. He decided to be an efficient passer in 15 games in his career so were just going to give him credit for that? Even though he never did it in his career? Even thought Bron's proved it since day one? That's like saying Shaq should be the best player ever because IF he hit his free throws, he'd had 15000 more points. He never hit em.
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Like NIK said Kobe is a better passer...completely blasphemous, but whatever for the sake of argument lets say Kobe is close. He decided to be an efficient passer in 15 games in his career so were just going to give him credit for that? Even though he never did it in his career? Even thought Bron's proved it since day one? That's like saying Shaq should be the best player ever because IF he hit his free throws, he'd had 15000 more points. He never hit em.
no, it's more like saying larry bird was a better shooter than daniel gibson......gibson might have the numbers, cuz he shoots more threes. thats his game, he's a three point shooter. but bird simply doesn't shoot as many threes, cuz his focus is somethin different. does that mean bird is not a better shooter? if kobe wanted to make it his game, he could average 9+ assists, he's simply less passive of a player than lebron on offense. ull never catch kobe disappearing from the flow of things dependent on others for long stretches the way lebron does. lebron depends on his teammates as much as he depends on himself. kobe and mj were not like this...still doesnt mean theyre not better passers, just means they're less passive.
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Because like we were talking about Kobe not passing...he doesn't do it and rather shoot the contested, double team.
LeBron doesn't "disappear" he just gets others involved in the team game that is basketball. Like I said earlier, Kobe is responsible for 50 of the Lakers 100, LeBron is responsible for 85 of the 100.
Tibs said himself, you can't stop him...so if you can't stop him, why would LeBron stop? He just gets the double team and instead of th 3-1 hero heave, he just kicks it to the corner with the precision of Peyton Manning and it's just game over.
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Because like we were talking about Kobe not passing...he doesn't do it and rather shoot the contested, double team.
LeBron doesn't "disappear" he just gets others involved in the team game that is basketball. Like I said earlier, Kobe is responsible for 50 of the Lakers 100, LeBron is responsible for 85 of the 100.
Tibs said himself, you can't stop him...so if you can't stop him, why would LeBron stop? He just gets the double team and instead of th 3-1 hero heave, he just kicks it to the corner with the precision of Peyton Manning and it's just game over.
if lebron is responsible for 85 of 100, kobe is for 100 of 100....any point scored by another player on the lakers comes off a kobe double or triple team, leaving said player open. yes, thats how bad our team was minus kobe this season. nobody could create for themselves or anyone else...not even nash.
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smh @ M dogg trying to rewrite the Nash era Suns history in this thread
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Because like we were talking about Kobe not passing...he doesn't do it and rather shoot the contested, double team.
LeBron doesn't "disappear" he just gets others involved in the team game that is basketball. Like I said earlier, Kobe is responsible for 50 of the Lakers 100, LeBron is responsible for 85 of the 100.
Tibs said himself, you can't stop him...so if you can't stop him, why would LeBron stop? He just gets the double team and instead of th 3-1 hero heave, he just kicks it to the corner with the precision of Peyton Manning and it's just game over.
if lebron is responsible for 85 of 100, kobe is for 100 of 100....any point scored by another player on the lakers comes off a kobe double or triple team, leaving said player open. yes, thats how bad our team was minus kobe this season. nobody could create for themselves or anyone else...not even nash.
I can't keep going if that's your mindset, that's just ludicrous.
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smh @ M dogg trying to rewrite the Nash era Suns history in this thread
Numbers speak for themselves, and reporters are the ones reporting that Kobe got robbed, and they were the voters. Simple as that.
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Because like we were talking about Kobe not passing...he doesn't do it and rather shoot the contested, double team.
LeBron doesn't "disappear" he just gets others involved in the team game that is basketball. Like I said earlier, Kobe is responsible for 50 of the Lakers 100, LeBron is responsible for 85 of the 100.
Tibs said himself, you can't stop him...so if you can't stop him, why would LeBron stop? He just gets the double team and instead of th 3-1 hero heave, he just kicks it to the corner with the precision of Peyton Manning and it's just game over.
if lebron is responsible for 85 of 100, kobe is for 100 of 100....any point scored by another player on the lakers comes off a kobe double or triple team, leaving said player open. yes, thats how bad our team was minus kobe this season. nobody could create for themselves or anyone else...not even nash.
I can't keep going if that's your mindset, that's just ludicrous.
im a kobe fan, ur a lebron fan. i'm from LA, ur from New York...that in itself is telling.
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Yeah, telling that you'll sound like an idiot if you have to, to defend your childhood hero from your town and I'll speak strictly in facts.
Lol @ this nigga thinking you can't be a fan of a superstar. Yeah...MJ only became the most idolized, well known, best selling athlete in history because Illinois is the most populated state in the country. ::)
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Yeah, telling that you'll sound like an idiot if you have to, to defend your childhood hero from your town and I'll speak strictly in facts.
Lol @ this nigga thinking you can't be a fan of a superstar. Yeah...MJ only became the most idolized, well known, best selling athlete in history because Illinois is the most populated state in the country. ::)
no...the difference is that i like kobe because his greatness helped bring my team 5 titles. u like lebron because he gives u a boner.
u can be a fan of a player...i'm a fan of steph curry and klay thompson, cuz they can flat out shoot wit precision. but ull never catch me cheerleading them like a fuckin groupie aka you.
most of the general public are fans of mj havent even seen him play a game...they like him because of "space jam" and hanes commercials. i like how u just fit urself into that group of the brainwashed masses. a lot of people are also fans of justin bieber and shake weights.
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Niggas trollin' heavy in the cut.