West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on July 24, 2007, 03:13:50 PM
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Game 4 of this years playoffs, Lakers were down to Phoenix 2-1 with momentum swayed in their direction and a homecourt game to tie up the series. I was there. Tim Donaghy was a ref, and this is what I said:
We were a missed call away from making a strong comeback on several occions. I was at the game. Every time the Lakers made a run and the momentum was shifting, the refs sucked the energy right out of the arena. The turning point for me was when the Lakers were making that strong run and Kwame had an And-1 to cut it to 8, I believe, but the refs called it a charge, Lakers got down on themselves, Suns ran back and hit a 3, and there's your 5 point switch+the game...Not saying the refs are the whole reason we lost, but if we woulda' won (and we had a chance), NONE of you would be bitching this much...PeACe
4/29/07 - Game 4 NBA Playoffs -
Suns 113 Lakers 100
Lakers FT- 13-17 Phoenix FT- 24-31
:puke:
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yeah but wasn't he accused of 'fixing' a game for the lakers in 2004 though.
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yeah but wasn't he accused of 'fixing' a game for the lakers in 2004 though.
Are you retarded? LMAO. He was doing this for money, to cover spreads, not because he favored one team or the other...PeACe
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no duh, reportedly for the mob. that's why i put my statement their. quit making it out to be a conspiracy againt the lakers then, and quit riding thine sack
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no duh, reportedly for the mob. that's why i put my statement their. quit making it out to be a conspiracy againt the lakers then, and quit riding thine sack
Obviously, the Lakers/Kobe have been getting the short end of the stick... ::)
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jake is not a laker fan
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jake is not a laker fan
your right jake is an educated laker fan
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no duh, reportedly for the mob. that's why i put my statement their. quit making it out to be a conspiracy againt the lakers then, and quit riding thine sack
Obviously, the Lakers/Kobe have been getting the short end of the stick... ::)
okay see that's what i'm talking about
this whole tim donaghy thing is the worst thing to happen to the NBA, but he's not siding against one team/player. he's 'helped' the lakers get the win against san antonio, then 'helped' the suns against the lakers, then 'helped' the spurs against the suns.
there's no conspiracy against the lakers/kobe here. donaghy is running in circles for the $.
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jake is not a laker fan
your right jake is an educated laker fan
+1 thank you!
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jake is not a laker fan
your right jake is an educated laker fan
+1 thank you!
LMAO. He's sayin Laker haters are educated, genius...
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This isn't a persona vendetta against the Lakers, douchebag. He screwed a lot of teams/players over.
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no duh, reportedly for the mob. that's why i put my statement their. quit making it out to be a conspiracy againt the lakers then, and quit riding thine sack
Obviously, the Lakers/Kobe have been getting the short end of the stick... ::)
okay see that's what i'm talking about
this whole tim donaghy thing is the worst thing to happen to the NBA, but he's not siding against one team/player. he's 'helped' the lakers get the win against san antonio, then 'helped' the suns against the lakers, then 'helped' the spurs against the suns.
there's no conspiracy against the lakers/kobe here. donaghy is running in circles for the $.
Lakers have been a target to bet against in recent years. It's fucking obvious, Jake. All this time, I've been shouting somethings up, and only a select few have been listening...Real Laker fans would be disgusted at this shit...PeACe
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(http://www.dreamwork.dk/cunningplan.jpg)
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no duh, reportedly for the mob. that's why i put my statement their. quit making it out to be a conspiracy againt the lakers then, and quit riding thine sack
Obviously, the Lakers/Kobe have been getting the short end of the stick... ::)
okay see that's what i'm talking about
this whole tim donaghy thing is the worst thing to happen to the NBA, but he's not siding against one team/player. he's 'helped' the lakers get the win against san antonio, then 'helped' the suns against the lakers, then 'helped' the spurs against the suns.
there's no conspiracy against the lakers/kobe here. donaghy is running in circles for the $.
Lakers have been a target to bet against in recent years. It's fucking obvious, Jake. All this time, I've been shouting somethings up, and only a select few have been listening...Real Laker fans would be disgusted at this shit...PeACe
You are a weird person
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^Yea, I'm so weird...Moron, look at the facts. Lakers have been getting screwed and the Laker Nation, INCLUDING PHIL JACKSON, have been speaking up against it for years now. The weird ones are the incompetent fucks like you, who hate at every chance they get with NO substance whatsoever. :-X
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This isn't a persona vendetta against the Lakers, douchebag. He screwed a lot of teams/players over.
Moron number 684844, I never said it was a personal vendetta. I said the Lakers have been getting screwed through this, while players like Wade have been benefitting. Learn how to differentiate before you comment, dumbass.
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Game 4 of this years playoffs, Lakers were down to Phoenix 2-1 with momentum swayed in their direction and a homecourt game to tie up the series. I was there. Tim Donaghy was a ref, and this is what I said:
We were a missed call away from making a strong comeback on several occions. I was at the game. Every time the Lakers made a run and the momentum was shifting, the refs sucked the energy right out of the arena. The turning point for me was when the Lakers were making that strong run and Kwame had an And-1 to cut it to 8, I believe, but the refs called it a charge, Lakers got down on themselves, Suns ran back and hit a 3, and there's your 5 point switch+the game...Not saying the refs are the whole reason we lost, but if we woulda' won (and we had a chance), NONE of you would be bitching this much...PeACe
4/29/07 - Game 4 NBA Playoffs -
Suns 113 Lakers 100
Lakers FT- 13-17 Phoenix FT- 24-31
:puke:
Congratulations NIK!. Now not only were you 1 rebound away from a title, but you can add 1 bad ref to the mix as well.
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I think nik has lost his marbles
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^ I would agree, but that number he posted is extremely close to my phone number...I think he may be one to something.
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^^lol
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I guess it's just a coincidence that I pointed out the terrible reffing as soon as I got back from attending the game live, PRIOR to any knowledgue of Tim Donaghy, as well as the 31-17 free throw attempt advantage for Phoenix at a LAKER HOMECOURT game, huh fuckheads?
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jake is not a laker fan
your right jake is an educated laker fan
+1 thank you!
LMAO. He's sayin Laker haters are educated, genius...
no im not. genius!!
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(http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/64511/180px-Gribble_qjpreviewth.jpg)
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(http://www.summersdale.com/images/Conspiracy-Theories.jpg)
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(http://www.statsdirect.com/help/images/bias1_wmf.gif)
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(http://www.nba.com/media/lakers/lg07auditions2.jpg)
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NIK
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I've been saying how awful NBA refs have been for years now..... the reason I don't watch basketball anymore
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jake is not a laker fan
your right jake is an educated laker fan
+1 thank you!
LMAO. He's sayin Laker haters are educated, genius...
no im not. genius!!
Yes you are. LOL.
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(http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/64511/180px-Gribble_qjpreviewth.jpg)
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(http://www.summersdale.com/images/Conspiracy-Theories.jpg)
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(http://www.statsdirect.com/help/images/bias1_wmf.gif)
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(http://www.nba.com/media/lakers/lg07auditions2.jpg)
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NIK
Of course, since you can't disprove what I'm saying, you come up with this childish shit that you think is funny...You lose again, Jakob.
(http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040715/040715_shaq_miami_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg)
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(http://www.dovewear.com/images/Heat%20Warm-ups%20001%20(2).jpg)
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(http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/5924/knotafoul2kf.gif)
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(http://www.t0lm.net/images/suck/LAKERS-SUCK-PURPLE%20ON%20WHITE.jpg)
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(http://www.villagehatshop.com/media/mexican-sombrero.jpg)
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Jakob
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If I was going to place a bet, and fix a game, so that I could make the most money...id try to make the FAVORITE lose.....not the Lakers. ;)
Btw...You dont have to be completely biased and ignorant to be a REAL fan. A real fan doesnt always need to make excuses or makeup bullshit conspiracies. The leagues out to get the Lakers....lolol.
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(http://www.villagehatshop.com/media/mexican-sombrero.jpg)
That hat is sick!!!
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Btw...You dont have to be completely biased and ignorant to be a REAL fan. A real fan doesnt always need to make excuses or makeup bullshit conspiracies. The leagues out to get the Lakers....lolol.
I never said that...However, you can't deny the biased officiating against the Lakers/Kobe on many instances, enough to finally cause a public outburst from Phil Jackson himself...ESPECIALLY on this specific incident, with all the proof provided....PeACe
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Btw...You dont have to be completely biased and ignorant to be a REAL fan. A real fan doesnt always need to make excuses or makeup bullshit conspiracies. The leagues out to get the Lakers....lolol.
I never said that...However, you can't deny the biased officiating against the Lakers/Kobe on many instances, enough to finally cause a public outburst from Phil Jackson himself...ESPECIALLY on this specific incident, with all the proof provided....PeACe
Likewise, you cant deny the biased officiating FOR Kobe and the Lakers on many instances. Kobe gets away with as many fouls as anybody, especially on the offensive end where he gets away with more then anyone probably. Phil Jackson and "public outburst about foul calls" are almost synonymous with eachother so his opinion pretty much means nothing. He is the biggest post/ pregame complainer maybe ever. Mark Cuban might have him beat, but its close. There are bad calls in EVERY single game, fact. The Lakers arent looked at as the "bad boys of the NBA" or anything. They arent hated by the league, the officials, or anyone. There is absolutely no reason to think that the league or officials have something against any of the teams...but especially the Lakers. The Lakers are "glamourous" (like Fergi lol), they have the biggest percentage of "fans" who arent even basketball fans. But that means they do generate a lot of money for the league. The league would like nothing more then to see LA in the finals. If they could get the Lakers vs the Knicks in the finals it would be a dream come true for the league. So if the league was to favor any team MAKING it to the finals....it would be the Lakers. Now how does it make sense that there would be some sort of plot against them with the foul calls?
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Btw...You dont have to be completely biased and ignorant to be a REAL fan. A real fan doesnt always need to make excuses or makeup bullshit conspiracies. The leagues out to get the Lakers....lolol.
I never said that...However, you can't deny the biased officiating against the Lakers/Kobe on many instances, enough to finally cause a public outburst from Phil Jackson himself...ESPECIALLY on this specific incident, with all the proof provided....PeACe
Likewise, you cant deny the biased officiating FOR Kobe and the Lakers on many instances. Kobe gets away with as many fouls as anybody, especially on the offensive end where he gets away with more then anyone probably. Phil Jackson and "public outburst about foul calls" are almost synonymous with eachother so his opinion pretty much means nothing. He is the biggest post/ pregame complainer maybe ever. Mark Cuban might have him beat, but its close. There are bad calls in EVERY single game, fact. The Lakers arent looked at as the "bad boys of the NBA" or anything. They arent hated by the league, the officials, or anyone. There is absolutely no reason to think that the league or officials have something against any of the teams...but especially the Lakers. The Lakers are "glamourous" (like Fergi lol), they have the biggest percentage of "fans" who arent even basketball fans. But that means they do generate a lot of money for the league. The league would like nothing more then to see LA in the finals. If they could get the Lakers vs the Knicks in the finals it would be a dream come true for the league. So if the league was to favor any team MAKING it to the finals....it would be the Lakers. Now how does it make sense that there would be some sort of plot against them with the foul calls?
LMAO. Were you not paying attention when Kobe got suspended TWICE for a ridiculous follow-through? Even worse, when other players did the EXACT SAME THING, no one got suspended. Then LeBron close-lined an opponent, and didn't even get fined... LMAO@acting like Kobe isn't looked at as a bad boy in the NBA. Come on now, bro. Phil Jackson didn't just complain, he called the NBA out on a "Kobe witch hunt", one that many people within the Laker Nation had been buzzin about for years...The league wants to push the Lakers and Knicks? Where are you getting this? The league is trying to push its younger superstars (Wade, LeBron..). The more superstars they have, the more money they generate......And Tim Donaghy has nothing to do with what the league wants to begin with, he on his own decided to fuck up this game. To claim Kobe typically gets calls in his favor is absurd! EVERYONE around the league has pointed out how Kobe never gets the preferential treatment that younger cats like Wade and LeBron do...And Jordan? FORGET ABOUT IT! You couldn't even breathe on Mike without getting whistled...PeACe
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Btw...You dont have to be completely biased and ignorant to be a REAL fan. A real fan doesnt always need to make excuses or makeup bullshit conspiracies. The leagues out to get the Lakers....lolol.
I never said that...However, you can't deny the biased officiating against the Lakers/Kobe on many instances, enough to finally cause a public outburst from Phil Jackson himself...ESPECIALLY on this specific incident, with all the proof provided....PeACe
Likewise, you cant deny the biased officiating FOR Kobe and the Lakers on many instances. Kobe gets away with as many fouls as anybody, especially on the offensive end where he gets away with more then anyone probably. Phil Jackson and "public outburst about foul calls" are almost synonymous with eachother so his opinion pretty much means nothing. He is the biggest post/ pregame complainer maybe ever. Mark Cuban might have him beat, but its close. There are bad calls in EVERY single game, fact. The Lakers arent looked at as the "bad boys of the NBA" or anything. They arent hated by the league, the officials, or anyone. There is absolutely no reason to think that the league or officials have something against any of the teams...but especially the Lakers. The Lakers are "glamourous" (like Fergi lol), they have the biggest percentage of "fans" who arent even basketball fans. But that means they do generate a lot of money for the league. The league would like nothing more then to see LA in the finals. If they could get the Lakers vs the Knicks in the finals it would be a dream come true for the league. So if the league was to favor any team MAKING it to the finals....it would be the Lakers. Now how does it make sense that there would be some sort of plot against them with the foul calls?
LMAO. Were you not paying attention when Kobe got suspended TWICE for a ridiculous follow-through? Even worse, when other players did the EXACT SAME THING, no one got suspended. Then LeBron close-lined an opponent, and didn't even get fined... LMAO@acting like Kobe isn't looked at as a bad boy in the NBA. Come on now, bro. Phil Jackson didn't just complain, he called the NBA out on a "Kobe witch hunt", one that many people within the Laker Nation had been buzzin about for years...The league wants to push the Lakers and Knicks? Where are you getting this? The league is trying to push its younger superstars (Wade, LeBron..). The more superstars they have, the more money they generate......And Tim Donaghy has nothing to do with what the league wants to begin with, he on his own decided to fuck up this game. To claim Kobe typically gets calls in his favor is absurd! EVERYONE around the league has pointed out how Kobe never gets the preferential treatment that younger cats like Wade and LeBron do...And Jordan? FORGET ABOUT IT! You couldn't even breathe on Mike without getting whistled...PeACe
lol@ a witch hunt against Kobe. Phil can be such a drama queen. Im not saying that the league is pushing for a LA/ NY finals...im saying that having those two teams face off in the finals would generate the largest tv audience probably ever in an NBA finals. So of course, the league would WANT it. So why would they have a vendetta in place keeping that from happening? Makes no sense. Also, throughout the entire history of the NBA, the best players have received the most favorable calls from refs. Your argument is that, Kobe is the one exception to that rule lol. Cmon man, think how ridiculous that sounds. The best years for the NBA were the 80's and 90's. MJ being responsible for almost one entire decade of that. The league is constantly looking for the next MJ. They WANT that guy who is invinsible. Do I think Kobe is that guy? No. But i know you do man. So where would it make sense that they would be on a "witch hunt" against him? Given the leagues history, this can be looked at one of two ways. One, Kobe is a great player...therefor he gets ticky tack fouls called in his favor (like every other great player throughout history). Or two, he doesnt get those calls in his favor, so he is not considered a great player by the league or the refs. You make the call. In no way am I a Kobe fan, but I do think he is the second best two guard ever (as of right now). Theres no reason the league would be out to get him.
As for Donaghy, any attempt to use him as the sole reason for a team not winning titles or series is fuckin stupid. Guarenteed, if hes found guilty of this, he could have affected a ton of games. Some for, some against our favorite teams. So its a wash, and theres no way to prove JUST how many or which games he affected.
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throughout the entire history of the NBA, the best players have received the most favorable calls from refs. Your argument is that, Kobe is the one exception to that rule lol. Cmon man, think how ridiculous that sounds
EXACTLY! That's what me, and countless people connected to the Laker organization have BEEN saying. Stu Lantz says it on broadcasts, man...It MUST be his image or something...which brings me to my next point.
The best years for the NBA were the 80's and 90's. MJ being responsible for almost one entire decade of that. The league is constantly looking for the next MJ. They WANT that guy who is invinsible. Do I think Kobe is that guy? No. But i know you do man. So where would it make sense that they would be on a "witch hunt" against him?
Why wouldn't the league want Kobe to be the next MJ? BECAUSE OF THE IMAGE! Kobe has been looked at and treated as a dirty player for some time now...We all know how much the league would love a hated player like Kobe with former rape allegations to be the face of the NBA, huh? Think about it. And on top of that, like I said, the NBA wants NUMEROUS superstars. 3 or 4 superstars on the same level make more money than one clear-cut...That's common sense. Either way, I don't think you've watched your share of Laker games if you say you haven't noticed any biased reffing against the Lakers/Kobe at some point or another...
Given the leagues history, this can be looked at one of two ways. One, Kobe is a great player...therefor he gets ticky tack fouls called in his favor (like every other great player throughout history). Or two, he doesnt get those calls in his favor, so he is not considered a great player by the league or the refs. You make the call. In no way am I a Kobe fan, but I do think he is the second best two guard ever (as of right now). Theres no reason the league would be out to get him.
Wow. You are very close-minded if you think those are the only possibilities. Did you ever think that the league recognizes Kobe as an amazing player, but doesn't respect him? It's just common sense, bro...
As for Donaghy, any attempt to use him as the sole reason for a team not winning titles or series is fuckin stupid. Guarenteed, if hes found guilty of this, he could have affected a ton of games. Some for, some against our favorite teams. So its a wash, and theres no way to prove JUST how many or which games he affected.
Well, I'd say I pretty much have enough evidence to claim he disturbed the outcome of this particular game...PeACe
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NIK, all NBA fans have been screwed, not just us. This isn't just about the Lakers. You're wrong in this case.
This incident only underscores something I've complained about for a minute, and that is referees having agendas, incompetent officiating, and kurupt officiating. This was all condoned with David Stern's arrogance and refusal to hold referees accountable, while slapping players, coaches and owners with absurdly high fines for criticizing officiating and implementing the Rasheed Wallace rule (no tolerance).
This isn't just about us Laker fans getting screwed. Everyone at some point has gotten screwed, except perhaps the 2006 Miami Heat in the finals. In fact we've benefited from bad officiating at times.
In 2000, Rasheed Wallace got a technical for staring. That one play may have helped us beat Portland that year.
2002 WCF game 6, the officiating was biased in favor of the Lakers, although in game 5 that we lost, there was a blown play where Chris Webber landed out of bounds with the ball and they gave the ball back to Sac, costing us the game.
At any rate, this whole problem started when Stern decided to market superstars to boost ratings, and this goes all the way back to the 80's with Magic and Bird. That started the whole notion of "superstar calls". I remember hearing that term way back then. When Jordan started to dominate in the '90's, the superstar calls became even more extreme. We all have seen the instant replay where Jordan pushes off on Bryon Russel, but no call. Kobe had gotten superstar calls until the rape trial, until Stern decided to market Lebron and Dwayne Wade a year later. They now get the superstar calls, with DWade's falling down in the lane and Lebron's traveling.
That's just part of the problem right there. Stern encourages kurupt officiating in that sense due to his promotion of certain superstars. In contrast, when you look at international officiating, falling down in the lane isn't ruled a foul on the defender and traveling is actually called.
Problem number 2 is referees with agendas. The classic example of this is good old Steve Javie. If he gets mad, he completely takes over a game as an official. Now picture this happening in baseball. Let's say an umpire gets mad at Barry Bonds, so every pitch thrown at the plate is a strike, even if it's a wild pitch. In baseball and other sports, that never happens but since the NBA has 0 accountability for officiating, referees like Javie can take over a game at whim just because they get mad. I remember that game where Payton was mysteriously tossed from the game in 2004, costing us the game. We also saw Joey Crawford kick Tim Duncan out of the game for inexplicable reasons this past season.
Problem number 3 is rule changes. Since sneezing on someone is a foul nowadays, you can't even play defense anymore without getting whistled. Stern has repeatedly taken something that wasn't broken and hit it with a sledgehammer. As a result, we have games ruined by excessive whistles. This makes many games unwatchable.
When you have a system of 0 accountabililty, when you handcuff players and coaches when it comes to talking about officiating, and when you anoint NBA golden boys that become untouchable, something like this is bound to happen. A ref like Donaghy can easily fly under the radar and influence games due to the extreme amount of kuruption and incompetence in NBA officiating today.
This time it's not about the Lakers. Since LA is a big market, it's actually in the league's best interest to be biased in favor of the Lakers if you think about it, due to national interest and the huge fan base of the Lakers but it isn't about us. It's about the arrogance of Stern and the refusal to accept any amount of accountability on his part for taking responsibility for this situation. I put this squarely on Stern.
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I never said this whole thing was about the Lakers...But this particular incident, yes, was about the Lakers. About Tim Donaghy taking over a very recent pivitol Game 4. I agree with all your points though, sounds like something I heard on AM570. Refs need to learn to adapt to the game of basketball, cuz lately, the game of basketball has been adapting to refs.
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Kobe must pay this cat.
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Kobe must pay this cat.
This isn't about Kobe, it's about Lakers-Suns Game 4 this season and Tim Donaghy...:stupid:
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throughout the entire history of the NBA, the best players have received the most favorable calls from refs. Your argument is that, Kobe is the one exception to that rule lol. Cmon man, think how ridiculous that sounds
EXACTLY! That's what me, and countless people connected to the Laker organization have BEEN saying. Stu Lantz says it on broadcasts, man...It MUST be his image or something...which brings me to my next point.
The best years for the NBA were the 80's and 90's. MJ being responsible for almost one entire decade of that. The league is constantly looking for the next MJ. They WANT that guy who is invinsible. Do I think Kobe is that guy? No. But i know you do man. So where would it make sense that they would be on a "witch hunt" against him?
Why wouldn't the league want Kobe to be the next MJ? BECAUSE OF THE IMAGE! Kobe has been looked at and treated as a dirty player for some time now...We all know how much the league would love a hated player like Kobe with former rape allegations to be the face of the NBA, huh? Think about it. And on top of that, like I said, the NBA wants NUMEROUS superstars. 3 or 4 superstars on the same level make more money than one clear-cut...That's common sense. Either way, I don't think you've watched your share of Laker games if you say you haven't noticed any biased reffing against the Lakers/Kobe at some point or another...
Given the leagues history, this can be looked at one of two ways. One, Kobe is a great player...therefor he gets ticky tack fouls called in his favor (like every other great player throughout history). Or two, he doesnt get those calls in his favor, so he is not considered a great player by the league or the refs. You make the call. In no way am I a Kobe fan, but I do think he is the second best two guard ever (as of right now). Theres no reason the league would be out to get him.
Wow. You are very close-minded if you think those are the only possibilities. Did you ever think that the league recognizes Kobe as an amazing player, but doesn't respect him? It's just common sense, bro...
As for Donaghy, any attempt to use him as the sole reason for a team not winning titles or series is fuckin stupid. Guarenteed, if hes found guilty of this, he could have affected a ton of games. Some for, some against our favorite teams. So its a wash, and theres no way to prove JUST how many or which games he affected.
Well, I'd say I pretty much have enough evidence to claim he disturbed the outcome of this particular game...PeACe
close-minded.....lol Man, think about how far-fetched your accusations are. For one, this is Kobe Bryant we're talking about. Youre acting like its Dennis Rodman. Kobe is "milk and cookies" compared to any other "dirty" players that the league has seen. Youre using this Kobe against the World argument to cover up the fact that the Lakers just havent been a championship team the last few years, regardless of Kobe. If Phil wants to focus on his make believe Witch Hunt rather then improving the team, then he can watch every year as other teams win the championship. Remember (and im sure youll agree), Phil Jackson is very psychological. Most of what he says to the media, is said for a reason. When he complains about refs, its for a reason. He uses that as leverage to hopefully sway the refs calls in his favor. He's hoping they will overcompensate on the calls and he'll gain an advantage. When he makes statements about the league being out to get Kobe, its probably because he recognizes something about Kobe. Just like most superstars in the league, he plays better when he feels he has something to prove. He's using that to light a fire under Kobe's ass.
Back to Donaghy, my only point is that if he affected one game....he's affected a million. There isnt one team that has had it worse then any other. So its kind of pointless to bring up every possible scenario where he might have influenced the outcome of a game.
This argument is going nowhere btw...agree to disagree..
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throughout the entire history of the NBA, the best players have received the most favorable calls from refs. Your argument is that, Kobe is the one exception to that rule lol. Cmon man, think how ridiculous that sounds
EXACTLY! That's what me, and countless people connected to the Laker organization have BEEN saying. Stu Lantz says it on broadcasts, man...It MUST be his image or something...which brings me to my next point.
The best years for the NBA were the 80's and 90's. MJ being responsible for almost one entire decade of that. The league is constantly looking for the next MJ. They WANT that guy who is invinsible. Do I think Kobe is that guy? No. But i know you do man. So where would it make sense that they would be on a "witch hunt" against him?
Why wouldn't the league want Kobe to be the next MJ? BECAUSE OF THE IMAGE! Kobe has been looked at and treated as a dirty player for some time now...We all know how much the league would love a hated player like Kobe with former rape allegations to be the face of the NBA, huh? Think about it. And on top of that, like I said, the NBA wants NUMEROUS superstars. 3 or 4 superstars on the same level make more money than one clear-cut...That's common sense. Either way, I don't think you've watched your share of Laker games if you say you haven't noticed any biased reffing against the Lakers/Kobe at some point or another...
Given the leagues history, this can be looked at one of two ways. One, Kobe is a great player...therefor he gets ticky tack fouls called in his favor (like every other great player throughout history). Or two, he doesnt get those calls in his favor, so he is not considered a great player by the league or the refs. You make the call. In no way am I a Kobe fan, but I do think he is the second best two guard ever (as of right now). Theres no reason the league would be out to get him.
Wow. You are very close-minded if you think those are the only possibilities. Did you ever think that the league recognizes Kobe as an amazing player, but doesn't respect him? It's just common sense, bro...
As for Donaghy, any attempt to use him as the sole reason for a team not winning titles or series is fuckin stupid. Guarenteed, if hes found guilty of this, he could have affected a ton of games. Some for, some against our favorite teams. So its a wash, and theres no way to prove JUST how many or which games he affected.
Well, I'd say I pretty much have enough evidence to claim he disturbed the outcome of this particular game...PeACe
close-minded.....lol Man, think about how far-fetched your accusations are. For one, this is Kobe Bryant we're talking about. Youre acting like its Dennis Rodman. Kobe is "milk and cookies" compared to any other "dirty" players that the league has seen. Youre using this Kobe against the World argument to cover up the fact that the Lakers just havent been a championship team the last few years, regardless of Kobe. If Phil wants to focus on his make believe Witch Hunt rather then improving the team, then he can watch every year as other teams win the championship. Remember (and im sure youll agree), Phil Jackson is very psychological. Most of what he says to the media, is said for a reason. When he complains about refs, its for a reason. He uses that as leverage to hopefully sway the refs calls in his favor. He's hoping they will overcompensate on the calls and he'll gain an advantage. When he makes statements about the league being out to get Kobe, its probably because he recognizes something about Kobe. Just like most superstars in the league, he plays better when he feels he has something to prove. He's using that to light a fire under Kobe's ass.
Back to Donaghy, my only point is that if he affected one game....he's affected a million. There isnt one team that has had it worse then any other. So its kind of pointless to bring up every possible scenario where he might have influenced the outcome of a game.
This argument is going nowhere btw...agree to disagree..
He's no Dennis Rodman? LMAO...Come on, man. Kobe Bryant is about 10 billion times more hated than Dennis Rodman. I'm done with you, man. You're obviously basing your arguments purely on what you think, not what you saw, not what's been said, not what's been PROVEN. Explain Kobe getting suspended by the league for circumstances that other players constantly get away with, TWICE IN A ROW. And that's AFTER all that has been said by people close to the organization who have watched Kobe reffed...Is there a conspiracy? Probably not. Do the NBA and its officials lack a respect for Kobe? Yes, OBVIOUSLY. You can't deny this with all that's been going on, and trust that I've been watching it a lot closer than you...PeACe
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^^maybe your problem is that youre watching too closely. You always say how many Laker games you watch. Youre over-analyzing shit, but using your own biased opinion to form your conclusions. And if you think Kobe is considered dirtier and the league respects him less them someone like Rodman...then youve become completely delusional man.
Anyways, im done with this one...peace
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Yea, you are done...Rodman was no where near as hated as Kobe, bro. dunno if you've been watching close enough, but does your city chant "Kobe sucks" when the Lakers are in town? I'm willin to bet they do...Either way, I'll leave you with this
http://www.youtube.com/v/BVTIYTSCG90
http://www.youtube.com/v/T6SpBM8dB4k
http://www.youtube.com/v/Mh_Y8Flb934
http://www.youtube.com/v/XhqDI-ODgz0
http://www.youtube.com/v/f8X7jPPi_4M
Technical Foul?:
http://www.youtube.com/v/qYPujQiKIzE
Suspended for his natural follow through:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Y6FOsBjD3ik
Natural follow through without hitting someon:
http://www.youtube.com/v/qY9itGGtWcI
Same story, different player=no suspensions?:
http://www.youtube.com/v/GGnnN5BMXwE
http://www.youtube.com/v/czuYGbup914
http://www.youtube.com/v/1q9OYzh4w1s
http://www.youtube.com/v/XwHXS2k_sPk
NO SUSPENSION?:
http://www.youtube.com/v/aRhNzT9dfrI
1 GAME SUSPENSION, SAME AS KOBE'S FOLLOW-THROUGH?!:
http://www.youtube.com/v/7V8ZukXsWmk
Does anyone remember Michael Jordan?
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Rodman was without a doubt more "hated" by the league. I dont even think they HATED him, but he was a lot less tolerated. The reason some people chant "Kobe sucks" isnt because he is dirty and they hate him for that. Its because he's viewed by a lot of fans (outside of LA) as an arrogant, self centered crybaby drama queen. Being the Kobe fan that you are, you wouldnt realize that. As for your pictures, i couldnt see the images for some reason. Anyways, I will give you this. Your Kobe obsession is unmatched and in top form. You are the champion.
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Rodman was without a doubt more "hated" by the league. I dont even think they HATED him, but he was a lot less tolerated. The reason some people chant "Kobe sucks" isnt because he is dirty and they hate him for that. Its because he's viewed by a lot of fans (outside of LA) as an arrogant, self centered crybaby drama queen. Being the Kobe fan that you are, you wouldnt realize that. As for your pictures, i couldnt see the images for some reason. Anyways, I will give you this. Your Kobe obsession is unmatched and in top form. You are the champion.
Rodman was looked at as a weirdo, no one really hated him. LOL@"people don't chant Kobe sucks because they hate him". That's too funny, man...Watch the videos...They aren't pictures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVTIYTSCG90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6SpBM8dB4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh_Y8Flb934
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhqDI-ODgz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8X7jPPi_4M
Technical Foul?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYPujQiKIzE
Suspended for his natural follow through:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Y6FOsBjD3ik
Natural follow through without hitting someon:
http://www.youtube.com/v/qY9itGGtWcI
Same story, different player=no suspensions?:
http://www.youtube.com/v/GGnnN5BMXwE
http://www.youtube.com/v/czuYGbup914
http://www.youtube.com/v/1q9OYzh4w1s
http://www.youtube.com/v/XwHXS2k_sPk
NO SUSPENSION?:
http://www.youtube.com/v/aRhNzT9dfrI
1 GAME SUSPENSION, SAME AS KOBE'S FOLLOW-THROUGH?!:
http://www.youtube.com/v/7V8ZukXsWmk
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Man I love those follow throughs where he slapped Ginobli and Jaric. Kobe makes the game exciting.
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every fucking game has bad refering nowadays.
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(http://www.summersdale.com/images/Conspiracy-Theories.jpg)
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(http://www.nba.com/media/lakers/lg07auditions2.jpg)
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NIK
Of course, since you can't disprove what I'm saying, you come up with this childish shit that you think is funny...You lose again, Jakob.
(http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040715/040715_shaq_miami_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg)
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(http://www.dovewear.com/images/Heat%20Warm-ups%20001%20(2).jpg)
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(http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/5924/knotafoul2kf.gif)
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(http://www.t0lm.net/images/suck/LAKERS-SUCK-PURPLE%20ON%20WHITE.jpg)
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(http://www.villagehatshop.com/media/mexican-sombrero.jpg)
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Jakob
good thing you're talking about jakob and not jacob.
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(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/821602~Jakob-the-Liar-Video-Release-Posters.jpg)
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Btw...You dont have to be completely biased and ignorant to be a REAL fan. A real fan doesnt always need to make excuses or makeup bullshit conspiracies. The leagues out to get the Lakers....lolol.
I never said that...However, you can't deny the biased officiating against the Lakers/Kobe on many instances, enough to finally cause a public outburst from Phil Jackson himself...ESPECIALLY on this specific incident, with all the proof provided....PeACe
Likewise, you cant deny the biased officiating FOR Kobe and the Lakers on many instances. Kobe gets away with as many fouls as anybody, especially on the offensive end where he gets away with more then anyone probably. Phil Jackson and "public outburst about foul calls" are almost synonymous with eachother so his opinion pretty much means nothing. He is the biggest post/ pregame complainer maybe ever. Mark Cuban might have him beat, but its close. There are bad calls in EVERY single game, fact. The Lakers arent looked at as the "bad boys of the NBA" or anything. They arent hated by the league, the officials, or anyone. There is absolutely no reason to think that the league or officials have something against any of the teams...but especially the Lakers. The Lakers are "glamourous" (like Fergi lol), they have the biggest percentage of "fans" who arent even basketball fans. But that means they do generate a lot of money for the league. The league would like nothing more then to see LA in the finals. If they could get the Lakers vs the Knicks in the finals it would be a dream come true for the league. So if the league was to favor any team MAKING it to the finals....it would be the Lakers. Now how does it make sense that there would be some sort of plot against them with the foul calls?
LMAO. Were you not paying attention when Kobe got suspended TWICE for a ridiculous follow-through? Even worse, when other players did the EXACT SAME THING, no one got suspended. Then LeBron close-lined an opponent, and didn't even get fined... LMAO@acting like Kobe isn't looked at as a bad boy in the NBA. Come on now, bro. Phil Jackson didn't just complain, he called the NBA out on a "Kobe witch hunt", one that many people within the Laker Nation had been buzzin about for years...The league wants to push the Lakers and Knicks? Where are you getting this? The league is trying to push its younger superstars (Wade, LeBron..). The more superstars they have, the more money they generate......And Tim Donaghy has nothing to do with what the league wants to begin with, he on his own decided to fuck up this game. To claim Kobe typically gets calls in his favor is absurd! EVERYONE around the league has pointed out how Kobe never gets the preferential treatment that younger cats like Wade and LeBron do...And Jordan? FORGET ABOUT IT! You couldn't even breathe on Mike without getting whistled...PeACe
nobody likes a rapist!!!
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LMAO
Thomas wants probe of referee's conduct in 2 Suns games (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0815ref-letter0815-ON.html)
Michael Kiefer
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 15, 2007 04:25 PM
Former NBA referee Tim Donaghy, who pleaded guilty to gambling-related charges in federal court Wednesday, may also face charges in Maricopa County if investigations by the basketball league or the FBI reveal that he deliberately miscalled two Phoenix Suns playoff games earlier this year.
Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas on Wednesday sent letters to NBA Commissioner David Stern and to the head of the FBI in Washington, DC, asking that his office be given any and all information about Donaghy's handling of the two Suns games that he officiated. Thomas wants to know whether Donaghy gambled on the games, provided inside information to gamblers or helped determine the outcome by making bad officiating calls.
In federal court in New York, Donaghy pleaded guilty to felony counts of conspiracy to engage in wire fraud and transmitting wagering information through interstate commerce. He was released on $250,000 bond. He faces up to 25 years in prison.
In his letters, Thomas stated that Donaghy might have also broken Arizona state law.
"Specifically it has been reported that Mr. Donaghy refereed playoff series games between the Phoenix Suns and the Los Angeles Lakers on April 29, 2007, and the Phoenix Suns and San Antonio Spurs on May 12, 2007," Thomas wrote.
"If Mr. Donaghy purposely failed to officiate the games properly, and his conduct resulted in changing the outcome of games, such conduct might have violated various Arizona criminal statutes and could be the subject of criminal prosecution."
The Suns played both of the games on the road, including the match-up against San Antonio in Game 3 of the Western Conference Finals. The Spurs won, 108-101.
Thomas did not comment on the letters, but Special Assistant County Attorney Barnett Lotstein said that the state's "long arm statute" allows the county to prosecute in such cases.
"If any element of the crime happened in our county, we have jurisdiction," Lotstein said.
Those elements would include the planning of the crime, even if it took place elsewhere, he said.
Among the possible felony charges are fraudulent schemes and artifices, which carries a possible prison sentence of 3 to 10 years; and bribery of participants in professional or amateur games, which carries a possible prison sentence of 1 to 3 ¾ years.
The latter applies to players, coaches, trainers or referees who try to profit from deliberately influencing the outcome of any sporting event.
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Unless a call is missed on the very last play of the game, how do you determine whether it determined the outcome of the game?
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Unless a call is missed on the very last play of the game, how do you determine whether it determined the outcome of the game?
I was at that game...I made a thread on it the very next day about how the Lakers had momentum the whole time and were playing better ball, and still managed to lose. Even my fucking girl, who was at the game with me and knows nothing about basketball, was amazed at how incompetent the refs were that day...Everyone in the section I was sitting at wanted to go onto the floor and strangle the officials. That game woulda tied the series 2-2...Horrible incident which could potentially cause irreversible damage to the Laker organization...PeACe
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Jesus Christ. Give it up NIK...what fans of a team that is losing doesn't want to strangle the refs?
And just for the record, are we to assume that "your girl" is now to be considered as a Laker Insider?
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^^Give what up, you fucking nutriding moron? TIM DONAGHY ADMITTED TO FIXING THIS GAME, DUMBSHIT. Someone, check this dudes last posts. This guy only exists here to ride my nuts.
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?action=profile;u=4997;sa=showPosts
:grumpy: