West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: R-Tistic on April 01, 2008, 07:07:08 AM
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Yeah, another one of these damm Detox threads. My question to everyone now is...what do you think would truly be worst at this point...for Detox to be scrapped and never be released, not even as bootleg collector's item or MP3 leak, or for it to come out and be seen as a major commercial failure, which would probably mean that it failed to reach platinum, wasn't loved by his main fans, or wasn't even seen as being a top Five album of the year?
I'll break it down like this:
If it was scrapped.......
Cons: There would be millions of bad things that would happen about this. Most people would completely give up hope in the West, and many producers would be lost in what direction to follow with the sound of the West and music in general. A lot of questions would remain unanswered unless Dre did an interview, and most of his die hard fans would feel like they were punched in the stomach. Many people would be asking millions of "what if?" questions, and we'd probably see 1,000 fake "Detox: The OFFICIAL Leak!" albums up for download.
Pros: At this point, many people have almost forgotten about it, and not many people seem to be as excited about it anymore...so if we got the word that it was completely scrapped, it's like "damn...at least we can start the process to moving on." This may motivate someone else from the West to aim at making a major album, or even give spotlight to someone younger that Dre would hail as his successor. The best part would be that in the future, his legacy would still be cemented as being an artist to come out with two major albums seen as classics, versus risking the chance of having a questionable/arguable classic, which may be the best possible scenario this late in the game.
If it was a major commercial failure, and wasn't well received by any fans, whether die hard Dre fans or just regular fans.....
Cons: Once again, nothing but bad could come from this. Most of the cons are the same as if it were to be scrapped, because people will feel that if Dre is done, people will definitely give up on the West. This could even make some people give up on Rap/Hip Hop, which most people feel is already a dying art and on the decline. It would take some people years to stop talking about it.
Pros: Because of the fact that most of the hype has died, it won't even be as bad as it would have been if he had dropped in 2003...and outside of critics and older fans, it wouldn't really break too many hearts. As hard as it would be to take it, it could be a very valuable lesson to the rest of the rap game, since many people put more into hype and anticipation of albums than they actually put effort into it. It may actually put many older rappers into retirement if they realize that the rap game really isn't meant to last a lifetime, because Dre had the longest run out of anyone else in the game and couldn't pull through.
The best part about this would be that Dre may take this motivation to realize "damn...even I don't come out with classics everytime" and instead of retiring since he just "knows" he's gonna make a classic, this would definitely motivate him to REALLY come back strong as hell, because he would HATE hearing everyone say "Dre is done, he hyped us up for nothing." The main difference between the time period before Chronic 2001 and Detox is that he had the world against him before 2001, and many people were saying he was finished, a sellout, and would never make another Chronic. After proving himself, and then making numerous hits with other artist, the hype built more and more for Detox because everybody knew he was on his game, and would "easily" make a classic.
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So overall...at this point, what scenario do you think would be worst at this point? Honestly...I'm in a dead draw right now, and can't decide.
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I could give a damn about Dre's bank account, happiness or sales. All I want is just to hear the music. If it sucks, so be it. There's plenty of other good music. I voted for the first option.
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Seriously It'S all about the music man. Im a big fan of game and dre. not cause im a dickrider. Because i like good music. I need good music. These dudes deliver. That'S what it is. I voted for it to never come out, that would be horrible!
LOOK OUT FOR DETOX.
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Seriously It'S all about the music man. Im a big fan of game and dre. not cause im a dickrider. Because i like good music. I need good music. These dudes deliver. That'S what it is. I voted for it to never come out, that would be horrible!
LOOK OUT FOR DETOX.
Well yeah, we do all like good music (I hope)....but that's the question...what if he didn't deliver on this one? What I described is if he not only dropped an album that critics hated, but that us fans who have his posters on walls and bought everything he does also thought it was wack...how would you feel about it?
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Seriously It'S all about the music man. Im a big fan of game and dre. not cause im a dickrider. Because i like good music. I need good music. These dudes deliver. That'S what it is. I voted for it to never come out, that would be horrible!
LOOK OUT FOR DETOX.
Well yeah, we do all like good music (I hope)....but that's the question...what if he didn't deliver on this one? What I described is if he not only dropped an album that critics hated, but that us fans who have his posters on walls and bought everything he does also thought it was wack...how would you feel about it?
He only cares about the music... If the success of a man who you don't know personally and have no relationship with at all honestly bothers you, then I believe you need to take a step back from your passion for music.
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Yeah, another one of these damm Detox threads. My question to everyone now is...what do you think would truly be worst at this point...for Detox to be scrapped and never be released, not even as bootleg collector's item or MP3 leak, or for it to come out and be seen as a major commercial failure, which would probably mean that it failed to reach platinum, wasn't loved by his main fans, or wasn't even seen as being a top Five album of the year?
I'll break it down like this:
If it was scrapped.......
Cons: There would be millions of bad things that would happen about this. Most people would completely give up hope in the West, and many producers would be lost in what direction to follow with the sound of the West and music in general. A lot of questions would remain unanswered unless Dre did an interview, and most of his die hard fans would feel like they were punched in the stomach. Many people would be asking millions of "what if?" questions, and we'd probably see 1,000 fake "Detox: The OFFICIAL Leak!" albums up for download.
Pros: At this point, many people have almost forgotten about it, and not many people seem to be as excited about it anymore...so if we got the word that it was completely scrapped, it's like "damn...at least we can start the process to moving on." This may motivate someone else from the West to aim at making a major album, or even give spotlight to someone younger that Dre would hail as his successor. The best part would be that in the future, his legacy would still be cemented as being an artist to come out with two major albums seen as classics, versus risking the chance of having a questionable/arguable classic, which may be the best possible scenario this late in the game.
If it was a major commercial failure, and wasn't well received by any fans, whether die hard Dre fans or just regular fans.....
Cons: Once again, nothing but bad could come from this. Most of the cons are the same as if it were to be scrapped, because people will feel that if Dre is done, people will definitely give up on the West. This could even make some people give up on Rap/Hip Hop, which most people feel is already a dying art and on the decline. It would take some people years to stop talking about it.
Pros: Because of the fact that most of the hype has died, it won't even be as bad as it would have been if he had dropped in 2003...and outside of critics and older fans, it wouldn't really break too many hearts. As hard as it would be to take it, it could be a very valuable lesson to the rest of the rap game, since many people put more into hype and anticipation of albums than they actually put effort into it. It may actually put many older rappers into retirement if they realize that the rap game really isn't meant to last a lifetime, because Dre had the longest run out of anyone else in the game and couldn't pull through.
The best part about this would be that Dre may take this motivation to realize "damn...even I don't come out with classics everytime" and instead of retiring since he just "knows" he's gonna make a classic, this would definitely motivate him to REALLY come back strong as hell, because he would HATE hearing everyone say "Dre is done, he hyped us up for nothing." The main difference between the time period before Chronic 2001 and Detox is that he had the world against him before 2001, and many people were saying he was finished, a sellout, and would never make another Chronic. After proving himself, and then making numerous hits with other artist, the hype built more and more for Detox because everybody knew he was on his game, and would "easily" make a classic.
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So overall...at this point, what scenario do you think would be worst at this point? Honestly...I'm in a dead draw right now, and can't decide.
that's easy to answer, the worst scenario would be that Detox will never come out, but i don't think that will happen.
for arguments see the serious detox topic.
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musically I don't think there is a chance it will dissapoint, if you mean commercially I would consider 2 million to be a huge success if it sells that amount, others might not
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It would be worst for it to not come out at all
Because as long as it comes out, you know it's going to be hot even if it doesn't sell well. And even if it's not the hottest album ever, it'll still have a gang of dope tracks on it...
Dre's released some really dope beats on other people's stuff like on Busta's album, Snoop's, a couple of bangers on Jay-Z's, and those are just relatively recently... if we go further back he had dope-ass beats on Game's first LP, Obie Trice's shit, etc etc etc.... so he MUST have saved some slightly doper ones for Detox, or at least have some of the same quality for his own album... so at the very worst the album should have better/as-good-as beats than all those albums he's worked on, which were usually the best beats on those albums
They may not be mind-shattering, but they should be very, very dope, like a collection of the hottest beats off some of the dopest albums of the last few years, at the very least, just because of the way he works
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It would be worst for it to not come out at all
Because as long as it comes out, you know it's going to be hot even if it doesn't sell well. And even if it's not the hottest album ever, it'll still have a gang of dope tracks on it...
Dre's released some really dope beats on other people's stuff like on Busta's album, Snoop's, a couple of bangers on Jay-Z's, and those are just relatively recently... if we go further back he had dope-ass beats on Game's first LP, Obie Trice's shit, etc etc etc.... so he MUST have saved some slightly doper ones for Detox, or at least have some of the same quality for his own album... so at the very worst the album should have better/as-good-as beats than all those albums he's worked on, which were usually the best beats on those albums
They may not be mind-shattering, but they should be very, very dope, like a collection of the hottest beats off some of the dopest albums of the last few years, at the very least, just because of the way he works
real talk, you can take 17 of those beats on other albums he did and put it on one and it would be dope, I do think he has saved the better ones for Detox like you stated
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To me, i'm pretty sure that Detox WILL actually come out one day at this point and be a huge success. Your two options are not possible in our world.
But to answer your question, i would really prefer that the album drops even if it's dissapointing and a commercial failure.
If it doesn't come out, its not so bad... He'll give his ideas and tracks to bishop, stat, 50, busta, slim the mobsta, raekwon, rakim, ice cube, snoop, jay z, nas or whoever else
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Seriously It'S all about the music man. Im a big fan of game and dre. not cause im a dickrider. Because i like good music. I need good music. These dudes deliver. That'S what it is. I voted for it to never come out, that would be horrible!
LOOK OUT FOR DETOX.
Well yeah, we do all like good music (I hope)....but that's the question...what if he didn't deliver on this one? What I described is if he not only dropped an album that critics hated, but that us fans who have his posters on walls and bought everything he does also thought it was wack...how would you feel about it?
He only cares about the music... If the success of a man who you don't know personally and have no relationship with at all honestly bothers you, then I believe you need to take a step back from your passion for music.
I still don't think y'all get what I mean....yeah, we only care about the music...but WHAT IF the music didn't hit us at all? And for most (normal) fans, it's not that the success of a person will bother us like that, but we are all passionate enough to hope that it makes an impact, especially for those of us from the West who have been waiting forever for the coast to "come back" in some way.
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It would be worst for it to not come out at all
Because as long as it comes out, you know it's going to be hot even if it doesn't sell well. And even if it's not the hottest album ever, it'll still have a gang of dope tracks on it...
Dre's released some really dope beats on other people's stuff like on Busta's album, Snoop's, a couple of bangers on Jay-Z's, and those are just relatively recently... if we go further back he had dope-ass beats on Game's first LP, Obie Trice's shit, etc etc etc.... so he MUST have saved some slightly doper ones for Detox, or at least have some of the same quality for his own album... so at the very worst the album should have better/as-good-as beats than all those albums he's worked on, which were usually the best beats on those albums
They may not be mind-shattering, but they should be very, very dope, like a collection of the hottest beats off some of the dopest albums of the last few years, at the very least, just because of the way he works
That's what I would hope for. I guess the scenario I speaks about means that his beats wouldn't be as hot as the 15-20 hottest beats he's done since 2005....or even if he did have beats of those levels, the songs themselves just didn't hit hard or move us at all. It should never happen, but it wouldn't be impossible for that to happen. I don't even think I'd say the beats on Snoop and Jay's albums were the best beats on there, the way I could say it about Get rich or die trying, Obie Trice's album, Game's album, or Eve's album with "Blow ya mind" where Dre's tracks completely stood out and were the main ones.
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I'd rather it never come out, than for it to come out and suck and be full of rappers that I hate. I would lose so much respect for dre.
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I dont think it can flop cause all the hype around it and he hasnt released an album since 1999
the first option would be worse
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I dont think it can flop cause all the hype around it and he hasnt released an album since 1999
the first option would be worse
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I'd rather it never come out, than for it to come out and suck and be full of rappers that I hate. I would lose so much respect for dre.
True, this is a good question you brought up. A lot of people aren't really seeing your idea through, and they are putting Dr. Dre under an aura of invincibility, but it's not guaranteed that, if Detox comes out, it will be great. If he drops something average or worse, it could severly tarnish his legacy. I would rather have him never come out than come with something weak, it's always better to leave your fans wanting more than getting tired of him. It's possible that if he came out weak he could come back hungry with something else, but the fact that he has had so much time for this would kind of cancel that thought out for me. Interesting discussion.
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If it was scrapped.......
Cons: There would be millions of bad things that would happen about this. Most people would completely give up hope in the West, and many producers would be lost in what direction to follow with the sound of the West and music in general.
can you tell me why do you really think that many producers would be lost ? Actually the producers are not waiting dre to know which direction they should choose......
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around 2005 I stopped caring.
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Seriously It'S all about the music man. Im a big fan of game and dre. not cause im a dickrider. Because i like good music. I need good music. These dudes deliver. That'S what it is. I voted for it to never come out, that would be horrible!
LOOK OUT FOR DETOX.
Well yeah, we do all like good music (I hope)....but that's the question...what if he didn't deliver on this one? What I described is if he not only dropped an album that critics hated, but that us fans who have his posters on walls and bought everything he does also thought it was wack...how would you feel about it?
He only cares about the music... If the success of a man who you don't know personally and have no relationship with at all honestly bothers you, then I believe you need to take a step back from your passion for music.
I still don't think y'all get what I mean....yeah, we only care about the music...but WHAT IF the music didn't hit us at all? And for most (normal) fans, it's not that the success of a person will bother us like that, but we are all passionate enough to hope that it makes an impact, especially for those of us from the West who have been waiting forever for the coast to "come back" in some way.
IF the music don't hit us at all, there's plenty of other good music to listen to. Dre's been putting out wack shit for the last few years, so it wouldn't be a shock, would it?
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I could give a damn about Dre's bank account, happiness or sales. All I want is just to hear the music. If it sucks, so be it. There's plenty of other good music. I voted for the first option.
on point
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Not releasing it at all would be the worst option for sure. I mean there would be tons of "if"-questions and then we would never know if there was any classics...
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::)