West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on April 20, 2005, 10:53:57 AM
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http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/features/id.406
Would you say that is a major problem with the hip-hop industry today? That they dictate the direction now, rather than listen?
“One of many problems, I’m afraid. The industry is all about the hard sell and they make no secret of it. This youth market – the largest ever – will be the name of the game for the foreseeable future and with hip-hop already established as the world’s most effective delivery system, young consumers are about to be taken for a ride the likes of which we have never seen. But it’s not their fault, because until you are old enough to develop some semblance of critical reasoning, you will fall prey to every bright, shiny object that comes along. The industry is in the middle of the perfect storm and they plan to stay awhile. They are no longer compelled to listen to our wishes, and as consumers we don’t do nearly enough to voice our displeasure at the way things are going. So we get what we get.
How did this sad state of affairs come to pass? One word: laziness. Instead of going out in the wilderness and finding interesting things to expose, most industry shot callers and gatekeepers just sat back and let things come to them. Now, they still have to sift through a lot of garbage in order to find whatever gems might be lurking about, but what tends to happen is that people all over the country are sifting through the exact same piles of junk and simply selecting and serving up the best of the worst. And if the consumer has no objection – which very few 13-year-olds will — and older heads who might raise the alarm have been long pushed to the sidelines, then junk becomes the standard and the industry makes sure that its junk is attractively packaged and ready for replication and distribution.
This is why so many of the magazines are the same. If the same publicist sends out the same press package to everyone under the sun, and if five people bite, then you’ve got five magazines running the exact same story. If a radio format works in Seattle and Atlanta, then it will probably work in Chicago, Miami and New York. And if these institutions are profitable, then there won’t be any pressure or need for them to reinvent themselves. And this is the rut in which we find ourselves today. Back in the day, when the industry – or “machine” as brother Zino calls it – was still ramping up to speed, it had no choice but to follow the culture — which is why hip-hop always seemed able to reinvent itself every eight months or so, and stay ten steps ahead of stagnation. The culture had an elasticity that we all took for granted and assumed would last forever. But the industry – and remember: the industry employs thousands of people whose only goal in life is to refine a successful approach until it becomes an irresistible force – is like the Borg from Star Trek: it will consume; it will adapt; and ultimately, it will set an agenda that serves only itself. It took about 20 years, but hip-hop is now safely in pocket and it hurts my heart to see it come to this. McDonald’s is already paying rappers to name check hamburgers. Can it get any worse?”
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^^^^ I had to post up a piece of this article. It's from the guy who edited The Source back in 91-94.
I agree with him. One of the big reasons why we keep seeing the same old ideas recycled in hip-hop (more creative ways to say the same old shit) is because there's always a new group of 13 year old coming up for the industry to exploit. I like what he said about "these kids are getting taken for a ride". That's the truth. I feel like these kids are missing out, hip-hop used to be so much more back in day, it was music that enlightened the disenfrachised, hip-hop spoke for the unheard; now rap music represents mass media.
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I can't deny it... Hiphop music isn't about the hiphop culture anymore these days. I can't really say I'm breathing hiphop in real life. If you just saw me in the streets, there would be nothing at all that classifies me as a hiphop fan, even though I hardly listen to any music other than hiphop.
Then again... How much is the story you posted talking about the hiphop culture? It's mostly just about rap music. How much is that affecting the culture itself? Some of it has been commercialised, with white suburban kids breakdancing to music by Public Enemy, for example. They don't truly feel hiphop, they don't live hiphop. They see hiphop and they think hiphop is cool. So they try to be hiphop.
I don't consider myself hiphop, apart from the fact that I listen to rap music all day long. Yeah, I'm still young, I remember joints like Dr. Dre's "Keep their heads ringin" and 2Pac's "California love" as some commercial joints I liked back when I was young and ignorant. Back then, it didn't go much further than that. It was people like Eminem, D12 and Dr. Dre who finally really got me into the music, around the time when 2001 dropped. They're the reason I listen to rap music these days, even though I dislike all of D12's music these days, and I think Eminem hasn't dropped a good album in 5 years. Their commercialised styles got me into it.
I guess I'm just different from the average kid described in the article. I felt a hunger for more serious music, so that's what I was looking for. Not just the random shit talking, trying to be funny, what Eminem and D12 do. Nowadays, my favorite artists are Cypress Hill, Redman, Nas, Wu-Tang, Onyx, BTNH, Ice Cube, Biggie, De La Soul etc. That's quite a change from what I used to listen to. I got deeper into the music.
The majority of the kids you're saying are controlling hiphop music now, are controlling the pop side of hiphop. There's always artists who care more about the art than about the sales. It's a shame they're rare these days. You just can't blame the kids who listen to hip-pop for this, it's the artists who are to blame. They're so hungry they're selling out, not caring about what they're representing. Snoop Dogg, WC and Xzibit shouldn't be cripwalking in their videos. They know it'll be copied by these kids, who don't know the meaning of it. Xzibit should have never c-walked anyway. They just do some moves that have the potential of commercially blowing up. A big sellout. Blame these artists.
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We gotta show our brothers/sisters/cousins what real hip hop is too. I cant blame cats for doing what they can to make money.
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My brother's 14 years old & like me, he bumps about 75% of the old classics and about 25% on the new shit coming out...the other day we were listening to "The Chronic", and I asked him how many of his homies that listen to rap\hip-hop have heard The Chronic...he goes 'this one dude. Everyone else just listens to the recent records'. That's sad as fuck, to think a kid will bump "Drop It Like It's Hot" or something, and think it's the illest Snoop song, when they haven't heard Gin & Juice. :o
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^^^That's not too bad. They are only 14, if they really like hip-hop and get into it I'm sure they'll eventually go back and catch up on all the older gems. When I was that age I pretty much only listened to Death Row shit and didn't even know of older stuff like Slick Rick or BDP but then got into eastcoast stuff like Biggie and Wu-Tang, then old school stuff and just kept branching out to cover everything.
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We gotta show our brothers/sisters/cousins what real hip hop is too. I cant blame cats for doing what they can to make money.
^^^^exactly. If you dont buy it there wont be a market for it.
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All I listened to was GRODT, Beg For Mercy, & Marshall Mathers LP. Then I realized that there was someone behind the music; Dr. Dre. If I hadn't seen that Wanksta video almost 3 years ago I wouldn't be listening to this today. I just downloaded a bunch of Run DMC, Snoop, & Dre, and I'm looking for the albums in stores now. I personally don't like Tupac and Biggie, mainly their voices. I don't think they go good with the beats, cuz they mostly talk about the sturggle or being a thug; club-bangers are good though, like Realest Niggaz and California Love. I like the fast beats without drums and alot of sfx.
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i would say you cant keep living in the past, but a lot of rap is garbage nowadays so i guess its all we got. :-\
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I hate it when these old timers from back in the day bitch and moan about the "culture". The monks in tibet belong to a culture. Villagers in southern Europe belong to a culture. Japanese people outside the big cities have a distinct culture. Hip Hop is just a second rate peice of shit music that some idiots take too seriously. No one ever called Heavy Metal, or Punk a culture. They were simply a genre, much like hip hop is.
Okay, so the old timers don't like that the guns and bling are ruining this "culture". Big fucking deal. If you don't like it then don't listen. It's not like there isn't any rap out there that these idiots can't listen to. Even if it means re-listening to old records. Ask any Rock fan from the 70s what he did when Disco came out, or how many new bands he listens to these days. He'll probably tell you he listened the the less popular good stuff for the former, and doesn't listen to any for the latter. When Cobain killed himself and the media left alt Rock and decided to overhype 90s RnB, I didn't care that MTV and radio was shoving Boyz II Men's second rate II album down my throat. I just went to the record store and bought Pearl Jam's Vitalogy, with or with out the "machine" behind it.
What really gets me is how stupid all of these old timers are. It's kind of like how high school was at it's peak when you were younger, in grade 9 or 10, because everything was new and you look back and think about how great it was. As the years go by and you get older it's not as fun in grade 12 as grade 9. Then you leave the school you look back and think how much it sucks now that you're not there. It took me little while to realize everyone who ever fucking graduated in any year thinks the same thing. That year when I looked back said it was shit, was an amazing year for some freshman out there, and that year that was so amazing for me was a piece of shit for some visting alumni.
When The Beasties came out and sold a lot of records Biz Markie caled them a mockery of rap (something he later took back). Well I'll bet that the Furious 5 weren't too keen what Biz Markie was doing. Didn't Big Daddy Kane also brag about his clothes and women. I wonder how many 80s rappers thought the Chronic was a big joke, with all it's sexism, violence, and just plain stupidity. Just because Dre ripped of 70s funk with a live studio band rather than rip off 60s soul with a turn table does not make him a musical genius.
Hip Hop is what it is to whoever wants it to be what they want it to be. Listen to what you like and don't listen to what don't like, but for the love of God stop fucking complaining about a change that hasn't really happened.
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Great post, Abdul Infinite aka Mullah Nasrudin . I still breathe hip hop. I only do it through real artists though. I will not listen to shit music or as Tip says, shit slop. I agree with the age and people using hip hop to market products. However, if hip hop is going universal then people are not going to understand a Nas, Tribe Called Quest, Roots, Redman etc.... I look at it this way too; 50 Cent for example is a piece of shit when it comes to Hip Hop. However, he makes decent music but not from a hip hop perspective. He is Hip-Pop. Look at whats real and hope that the real will shine above the BS and someday, we will reap the benefits. I hope Common can sell well and prove real hip hop like Common and Kanye keep selling because Kanye West album was an example that real hip hop can still sell.
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I hate it when these old timers from back in the day bitch and moan about the "culture".
Remember that hip-hop is more than just music.
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I hate it when these old timers from back in the day bitch and moan about the "culture".
Remember that hip-hop is more than just music.
And ever other sub genre of Rock n Roll isn't? Punk is more than music, so is Metal, folk, funk, disco was. Even before Rock, the Blues, and Jazz were. Only idiot hip hop heads refer to their genre as a culture. Culture is more than entertainment. Culture involves a distinct way of life that includes religion, philosophy, work, eduacation. Is there a religion that indentifies solely with hip hop? How about a type of job, schooling, state of mind? There isn't. Hip hop is not a culture, it's a form of entertainment. Just because that form of entertainment includes spiing, scratching, breaking, grafitti, etc, does not make it any more than a form of entertainment. Hip hop is just a small aspect of American culture, that has made it's way across the globe. It is not a culture all it's own.
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hip hop is mostly a club culture thing now
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RAP is mostly a club culture thing now
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hip hop is mostly a club culture thing now
yeah and i got a problem with that
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Hip Hop is only entertainment for you, Shallow. But thats because you're NOT Hip Hop. It IS a culture to many people. Shit! It's soon to be a Religion, thanks to KRS-One. Graffing, Emceeing, Breaking, Popping, DeeJaying, Beatboxing etc. is ALL apart of the culture, making up Hip Hop. Hip Hop is a way of living. It's more than just wearing Sean John and listening to Rakim, it's the way you think, act, etc.
Hip Hop has ALWAYS been a Club culture. When they weren't in the parks, where were they? In the clubs! Look at the "Rappers Delight" video... Where were they? The CLUB! The only difference is, when WE (Being the Mid to Late 80s kids) were coming up we were stuck in Gangsta Rap mania and the music was not very geared toward Clubs or Partying.
People these days are too lazy to peep the history. I would think Rock is garbage if I never peeped out The Doors, Hendrix or people of the sort. I would think R & B is garbage if I never peeped out EWF, Mary Wells etc. Even though I started listening to Hip Hop at the end of the 80s, I still checked out the Grandmaster Flash's, the Ice-T's, the Mixmaster Spade's etc. How can you rep something without knowing it's history?
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Hip Hop is only entertainment for you, Shallow. But thats because you're NOT Hip Hop. It IS a culture to many people. Shit! It's soon to be a Religion, thanks to KRS-One. Graffing, Emceeing, Breaking, Popping, DeeJaying, Beatboxing etc. is ALL apart of the culture, making up Hip Hop. Hip Hop is a way of living. It's more than just wearing Sean John and listening to Rakim, it's the way you think, act, etc.
Hip Hop has ALWAYS been a Club culture. When they weren't in the parks, where were they? In the clubs! Look at the "Rappers Delight" video... Where were they? The CLUB! The only difference is, when WE (Being the Mid to Late 80s kids) were coming up we were stuck in Gangsta Rap mania and the music was not very geared toward Clubs or Partying.
People these days are too lazy to peep the history. I would think Rock is garbage if I never peeped out The Doors, Hendrix or people of the sort. I would think R & B is garbage if I never peeped out EWF, Mary Wells etc. Even though I started listening to Hip Hop at the end of the 80s, I still checked out the Grandmaster Flash's, the Ice-T's, the Mixmaster Spade's etc. How can you rep something without knowing it's history?
Okay, so do you consider, Punk, Heavy Metal, Folk, Country Western, and the Blues culture's as well? If hip hop is a culture then the hippies of the 60s were an entire civilization of there own, and not just Americans with distorted minds.
And don't talk to me like I don't know the history. You speak like I don't know anyone before Eminem, or 50. I know plenty of the history of hip hip, from it's 70s undeground in the streets of New York period, to it's mainstream crossover of the 80s. Could I write a book about it with research? No, but I doubt you could either. Just because I would rather listen to other genres doesn't mean I don't know about hip hop. It's all Rock n Roll to me. Chuck D agrees with me on that.
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shallow dropping knowledge
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Punk is a culture, Country Western is a culture. There's more to those than music. KRS-One would agree with me on that.
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Punk is a culture, Country Western is a culture. There's more to those than music. KRS-One would agree with me on that.
America is a culture, and that can be broken into north and south, like it's always been. I look at a culture as a complete way of life. Something that can be depended on to live every aspect of life. You can live as an American and survive based on things, and only things, that have been created by the American culture, which ever race it comes from. This inclues food. Other parts would be, as mentioned before, economy, education, religion, philosophy. Hip hop is not complete in these things, and neither is Punk, or Country. They are all just subdivisions of a full culture. You could argue that the American City is a culture, or that the South is a culture. But both these fall under the full American Culture that has a distinct way of seeing things. Does this mean that all Americans are the same, or that all cities are the same? No, but there are enough similarities and customs that are unique to America, more or less, to have them fall under one main culture. Got to New York, Chicago, Dalllas, and Detroit, and you'll find the day to day life of most isn't too different. They all speak the same laguage, all had the same type of schooling, depending on how far they went. They all have the same major types of food that are present thanks to franchising. They all watch the same TV channels. Go to Tokyo, or Athens and you'll see a difference. (of course one could argue that the differences between a southerner, and northern yankee are completely different, except for the major cities in the South.)
Aside from a sideways hat, pants that are too low and some broken English, you won't be able to tell the difference between a hip hop fan in New York, and a kid from New York that doesn't listen to music at all, but goes to the same school, eats the same food, and watches the same TV. Take that hip hop kid from New York and put him in a formal environment like a church or a wedding and he won't be any different from the other kid in New York because they both come from the same culture that teaches the same edicate for formal situations. Now take a kid from Manitoba Canada, or a Native from Cocopah Tribe of Arizona and put them in the same environemt as the two new york kids and you'll know with in seconds that these kids are not from the some place, race not included. If you took a black kid fom New York and raised him in Manitoba he'd be nothing like other New York blacks, and if you took a white from New York and raised him in the Arizona reseveration he'd be nothing like a white kid from New York. Why because they'd be raised in a completely different culture, rather than the same culture but from different sub-divisions. Listen to N.Y. State of Mind by Nas, and then Jungle Land by Bruce Springsteen and you'll see a the same portrait of the same way of life painted by both artists, obviously not the same story, but a similar view on the world. These songs are 20 years apart, one is rap and one is 70s rock. One is from a poor black kid from New York, the other is from a poor white kid from Jersey. Why do they talk about the same way of like, the streets, in a poetic way? Because they grew up in the same culture more or less. They were from different eras and those differences may pop up, but the general tone is the same. If they were truly from different cultures the simlarities would not be there.
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I'll take a kid from my school as an example. Matt. We went to school together from Junior High until we Graduated. Both had the same friends. Both of us Latino. Both of us came up in the same area, no more than 5 minutes from each other. Both had a mother and father. Both of us were the younger brother. Very similar right?
We both were submerged in music and let it influence us more so than anything. His Rock influence took him down a much different path than my Hip Hop influence. He was very immature, couldn't hold a conversation. He was very heavy into drugs and would stay home playing his Bass guitar. I was more mature, held conversations with everyone. Only drank and smoked a little weed. Enjoyed going out and partying.
Am I saying that Rock made him that way? No. But, we were VERY different in many areas outside of speech and dress. We both came from the same background/Racial cutlure, but he went one way, I went another.
Im sure the same can be said about kids anywhere. If they're as passionate about music as we were, then you can see there difference. The crooked hat and pants below the ass is NOT the epitome of Hip Hop culture, which is why I don't think you're Hip Hop in the slightest. Thats the "mainstream" image that we know. But look at KRS, look at Cube, look at Run!!! None of them dress that way. Yes, they may have at one point, but thats only when it was "in." They still embody what Hip Hop Culture is today.
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hip hop is mostly a club culture thing now
yeah and i got a problem with that
So do I, I hate the fact hip-hop is about mass media and not music
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Get the fuck outta here!
13 yr olds running the indutry, thats some bullshit right there
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I'll take a kid from my school as an example. Matt. We went to school together from Junior High until we Graduated. Both had the same friends. Both of us Latino. Both of us came up in the same area, no more than 5 minutes from each other. Both had a mother and father. Both of us were the younger brother. Very similar right?
We both were submerged in music and let it influence us more so than anything. His Rock influence took him down a much different path than my Hip Hop influence. He was very immature, couldn't hold a conversation. He was very heavy into drugs and would stay home playing his Bass guitar. I was more mature, held conversations with everyone. Only drank and smoked a little weed. Enjoyed going out and partying.
Am I saying that Rock made him that way? No. But, we were VERY different in many areas outside of speech and dress. We both came from the same background/Racial cutlure, but he went one way, I went another.
Im sure the same can be said about kids anywhere. If they're as passionate about music as we were, then you can see there difference. The crooked hat and pants below the ass is NOT the epitome of Hip Hop culture, which is why I don't think you're Hip Hop in the slightest. Thats the "mainstream" image that we know. But look at KRS, look at Cube, look at Run!!! None of them dress that way. Yes, they may have at one point, but thats only when it was "in." They still embody what Hip Hop Culture is today.
Are you sure it wasn't the drugs that made him start acting stupid? Particularly if they were heavy drugs. Also it was the type of person he is. If you listened to Rock instead Rap don't you think most of your characteristics would be more or less the same, as far as intelligence, and edicate are concerned? Rap has just as many drugs and stupidness as Rock, but you didn't fall victim to it, much like you probably wouldn't with Rock.
KRS ONE is a grown man, so are the other two. You picked 3 very distinct adults that left behind they're childhood. Look at Mobb Deep, Fat Joe, Eminem, 50, Jay Z up until very recently. These are all grown men that for the most opart still dress like teenagers. I live in Toronto and I see a whole bunch of kids dressing that way. I visited New York and saw the same. I see it on the street way more than I see it on TV. I'm not going to further the sideways hat, low pants thing anymore because it was a joke. I still think it looks stupid.
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99% of the msuic I listen to is gangsta-rap, and I act like a total idiot at school and everywhere else. I'm one of the most immature people at my school, easily. But I wear G-Unit Sneakers and sagging pants. I don't try to act like a gangsta, but I dress like one. I don't talk like a gangsta, but I listen to the music. I don't do anything that would be considered "black", but I still have the knowledge of hip-hop culture and street mantality. I've never tried any drugs, but I know all the slang. It's not the music that changes you, it's the opinion of the person who's representing it.
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Im 14 and I own around 300 rap cds. Most people my age are clueless to what real hip-hop is...Its pretty sad.
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He acted that way prior to the drugs and he always listened to Rock. He parents were lax, much like mine. As far as intelligence and edicate go, we had different influences at the time. He wanted to be a Revolutionary like Rage Against The Machine. I was more into Ras Kass, Chino XL and people of that sort. I was becoming more mature, he was carrying "Free Mumia" Papers, not knowing SHIT about Mumia.
I wouldn't say ANY of these dudes dress like Teenagers. THEY start the trends and THEN Teenagers follow. Example? The Button Up craze. That is FAR from a Teenage-style of Dress. But they WILL dress that way if Jay-Z or someone of the sort makes it a trend.
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If your not a gangsta why are you frontin like one
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He acted that way prior to the drugs and he always listened to Rock. He parents were lax, much like mine. As far as intelligence and edicate go, we had different influences at the time. He wanted to be a Revolutionary like Rage Against The Machine. I was more into Ras Kass, Chino XL and people of that sort. I was becoming more mature, he was carrying "Free Mumia" Papers, not knowing SHIT about Mumia.
I wouldn't say ANY of these dudes dress like Teenagers. THEY start the trends and THEN Teenagers follow. Example? The Button Up craze. That is FAR from a Teenage-style of Dress. But they WILL dress that way if Jay-Z or someone of the sort makes it a trend.
So then he's just a dumb kid. That has nothing to do with the "culture" he chose to listen to. Like I said, if you listened to Rage instead of Rass Kass you'd probably be the same calibre human being you are now. You'd still drink, and go to parties, but you'd know your limit. You'd still listen to music a lot. You'd still go or have gone to the same school. You'd still eat the same food. You'd still pray to the same God (if you're religious). You'd still speak the same laguage. Why? Because you'd still be part of the same culture. Which is American, and Latino, not hip hop. If someone asks you what your culture is, would you truly respond by saying "I'm , latino, american, and hip hop"? By that token Lebron James could say his culture is Basketball. "Hey Jim Carrey, what's your culture?", "Comedy". Does that sound reasonable to you? because it doesn't to me.
As for the dressing like teenagers. I don't mean they dress like today's teenagers (even though they do). I mean they dress like they're still teenagers. The sideways hat and low jeans go a long way back. THis is how they dressed back then. Sometimes you just have to grow up and some people just don't. Look at the tape of Pac and Suge beating up the guy in the night club. These are bunch of guys between 26 and 40. They are businessmen, and millionaires, and they are getting into brawls. Don't tell me this isn't teenage behaviour. Could you imagine Tony Danza, Scott Baio, and John Stamos back in the late 80s beating the shit out of a guy in a lobby? How about Denzel Washington, and Sydney Poitier roughing up some punk that pissed them off? There are boys and then there are men. Boys are stupid, and men aren't.
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OK Shallow u say calling a genre of music a 'culture' is completely absurd, you dont think it is much more than just music, something that influences people so much and can influence decisions made by a person. something we dump money into and embrace in almost every aspect of life, hell we come onto the internet to argue about music, do you think hip hop is nothing more than hip hop, punk no more than just punk? both of these just like almost every single genre of music has spawned millions of followers into a counter culture. what wouldf you use in place of culture wwhen referring to your love for music and bringing it into your life in some instances for guidance?
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both of these just like almost every single genre of music has spawned millions of followers into a counter culture. what wouldf you use in place of culture wwhen referring to your love for music and bringing it into your life in some instances for guidance?
I'd use the word interest, or hobbie. I like video games, or at least I used to, and I would treat it the same way I treat music, and I'd see people just as wrapped up in them as others are rapped up into hip hop. Are video games a culture? I don't think so personally. How about Magic, the card game. I know people that paid for University off of Magic winnings. They practically lived that game. I wouldn't call it there culture. Are games and music, an aspect of culture? Yes. Are they a culture all their own? No. When you read about African tribes and their culture, you read about their way of life, their food, their education, their jobs, their music, but you never hear their music called a culture all its own, because it's not. It's just a part of their culture.