West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on August 16, 2006, 12:33:15 AM
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These kids I know around 14 and 15 years old are always rapping songs on the radio like Young Joc, or E-40's new stuff, Franchise Boys, stuff like that. So anyway, I wanted to try and expose them to some of what I consider to be real hip-hop. Because to me, real hip-hop involves great lyrics, so I wanted to play them something really lyrical. I decided to pull out a concept song.
I played Common's "I Used To Love Her" track. It failed to have any impact on them. They thought the song was about a woman, and by the time Common indicates to the listener that the woman is a metaphor for hip-hop their short, abbrievated tension spans had long forgotten the song was even playing. I had to later explain to them what the song was talking about, which took the piss out of the whole thing.
I think it went way over their heads, I think these kids only understand basic lyrics about money or sex, two of the most basic desires.
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I'm trying to explain the same thing to my younger brother. I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam, Masta Ace, and Talib Kweli the other day. He was really only into the Talib Kweli......I guess it's a start.
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if "these young rap fans" are really interested in rap, hip hop.. they gonna discover themselves what's real hip hop with the time.. I think it's safe to say nobody (or a very few) start to listen to rap by pickin a Immortal Technique or Mos Def album... On the other hand, rap has turned pop nowadays so a lot don't care about the music, they just listen to rap becoz that's the number 1 kind of music these days.. same people will listen to techno(or whatever) if it'll become the main kind of music played on radio, tv
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i guess i was the same when i was younger, it really took me a while to discover that a lot of artists, who dont necessarily get a lot of airplay or have videos on mtv, make dope music and i suppose the internet has a lot to do with that...i wouldnt have heard of a lot of my favourite artists if it wasnt for the net...it was only then i really started listening to music i consider to be dope, rather than those who are forced on you by tv and radio...its frustrating to me trying to explain to friends about these dope artists, usually the reply i get is "if they're that good, why havent i seen their video on tv"? :-\
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I've been listening to rap since like 13.... but I started paying attention and understanding music a lot more when I got like 17
depends, could either be a maturity thing or the kids will never get it... one or the other
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Hopefully, they'll get it!
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if "these young rap fans" are really interested in rap, hip hop.. they gonna discover themselves what's real hip hop with the time.. I think it's safe to say nobody (or a very few) start to listen to rap by pickin a Immortal Technique or Mos Def album... On the other hand, rap has turned pop nowadays so a lot don't care about the music, they just listen to rap becoz that's the number 1 kind of music these days.. same people will listen to techno(or whatever) if it'll become the main kind of music played on radio, tv
I agree. If they want to understand hip hop they'd do it by themselves. You can't force a kid to do something cuz it'll just turn them away more...most likely. I had to come to a realization myself. I used to be obsessed wit the Hot Boys. I used to rock bandannas all over myself. One on my head, one around my neck, one holding my pant leg up and another one on my wrist. I even used to buy the silver chains out the 25 cent machine becuz that's the kind of music I used love. Just anything Cash Money. I was blind about what real hip hop was. But nobody told me what I was listening too was crap or something until I really started to listen to Busta Rhymes lyrics. Than my love for real hip hop started to surface. If a kid listens to something and likes it alot they're just gonna stick wit it, there's no way to try and school 'em, unfortunetly, if they hooked on something its gon take alot to get em off....unless they figure it out by themselves.
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E-40 is one of the most lyrical rappers this genre has ever seen. Soak his shit in, you might learn something.
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I played Common's "I Used To Love Her" track. It failed to have any impact on them. They thought the song was about a woman, and by the time Common indicates to the listener that the woman is a metaphor for hip-hop their short, abbrievated tension spans had long forgotten the song was even playing. I had to later explain to them what the song was talking about, which took the piss out of the whole thing.
I think it went way over their heads, I think these kids only understand basic lyrics about money or sex, two of the most basic desires.
+1 for even trying... Perhaps Common isn't really a good example because he seems soft to these kids. Maybe next time try some Eric B. & Rakim or something...
Then again, as mentioned already; they'll discover by themselves sooner or later. That's the best way to get around to it. And well, if they never really get to find out what Hip-Hop is... Ignorance is bliss, so they say. I'm not quite positive on that one though ;)
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Same thing happened with my brother (who's 16 years old)... He was listening to Chingy, Mike Jones and all that shit... But one day he started to check out some 2pac shit, and then he started to understand the importance of lyrics!!!
Then he got into The Roots, Talib, Cee-lo, Outkast, Boot Camp, etc... So I really think that if you want to catch someone attention with "real" hip-hop you gotta start with something they already know and respect (like 2pac, Biggie, Wu-Tang, etc.), and then, once they understand the essence of hip hop, they would discover other things...
Or maybe my brother ain't just that stupid!!!!!!!
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You need to get some years before you can really take many things seriously.
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They'll get it into their heads. Do you see any 25 year old guys driving by bumping Mike Jones??? No. They will follow in your footsteps. My brothers have. It takes repetition.
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Your mistake was showing them a guy like Common. He just won't appeal to mainstream hip hop listeners. Like someone else said introduce them to someone like 2Pac, because he has great crossover music that's versatile and is deeply respected by all hip hop listeners.
I'm trying to explain the same thing to my younger brother. I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam, Masta Ace, and Talib Kweli the other day. He was really only into the Talib Kweli......I guess it's a start.
No dipset?
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i was like them for just like 3-4 years ago... what really got me into hiphop was 50 cent's get rich or die trying.. even though i heard the music a little before that it was 50 cent who took me in.. i must say i have come alot further than 50 cent now :P... so 50 cent actually do 1 good thing for me :)
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Shit I started off with shit like Young MC and MC Hammer back in the day, then I gravitated towards Public Enemy and it was all over after that.
The difference between now and back then is that the mainstream stuff is so easily accessible. Back then, there were maybe 4 or 5 rap songs that were played on the radio at any given time period, so if you wanted to hear more, you had to search for it. Nowadays, mainstream rap is so huge and diluted that it's everywhere. There's no need for kids to dig deeper to find the real shit.
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I remember when I was just getting into Hip-Hop, when a rapper was mentioned, or played I'd always smile that they were getting attention because it was nowhere then a few years later it was everywhere. They even use Rap to advertise Broadsheet newspapers.
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For me it started out with Dre and Snoop, 2001 and Doggystyle. I heard Common for the first time on the weekend of September 11th when MTV played videos all weekend and The Light came on. I asked my brother if he had the CD and I copped it from him. From then I expanded away from the mainstream bullshit.
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These kids I know around 14 and 15 years old are always rapping songs on the radio like Young Joc, or E-40's new stuff, Franchise Boys, stuff like that. So anyway, I wanted to try and expose them to some of what I consider to be real hip-hop. Because to me, real hip-hop involves great lyrics, so I wanted to play them something really lyrical. I decided to pull out a concept song.
I played Common's "I Used To Love Her" track. It failed to have any impact on them. They thought the song was about a woman, and by the time Common indicates to the listener that the woman is a metaphor for hip-hop their short, abbrievated tension spans had long forgotten the song was even playing. I had to later explain to them what the song was talking about, which took the piss out of the whole thing.
I think it went way over their heads, I think these kids only understand basic lyrics about money or sex, two of the most basic desires.
Well, guess what? Not everybody cares about "real hip hop." Just because the hip hop they like isnt the kind of hip hop you like doesnt mean the shit they like is not "real hip hop." Hip hop is hip hop. We just need to come to grips with the fact that hip hop as we knew it growing up is not hip hop as it is today, and yesterday is not coming back. Besides, people are not gonna pay you no mind when you're telling them "Hey, you listen to bullshit. Listen to what I listen to." People dont respond well to that type of thing.
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The term "real hiphip" is kinda wack, really. These kids will expand their listening if they are really down with hiphop, if not, who cares, they will find some other genre. Even thought some of the artists these kids listened to are wack, it's understandable how its catchy. Besides, hiphop was created as a party music, not necessarily some shit to educate. Some people don't need to LEARN when they are listening to music, they just wanna have a good time.
Myself, i really got into hiphop with DOggystyle in Grade 8, but eventually i started listening to a lot of old school stuff, checking out all the classics, PE, Rakim, etc. Basically, don't force anything on these kids, they'll figure it out if they want.
For the kids nowadays, Pac is the best way. Kids worship Pac to this day, and his music is a good start cuz it goes from gangster to conscious, so tehy get some of both, and the music is still commerically viable. If you want to start them on some Nas, start with some of his more catchy songs, like Message, If I Ruled, One Mic, etc . Masta Ace, go with some INC Ride, Cube go with Lethal Injection, and then from there if they want kids will look into Illmatic, Amerika's Nightmare, Disposable arts. But to go straight from Dem Franchise BOys or Camron to "real hiphop" is kinda tough
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These kids I know around 14 and 15 years old are always rapping songs on the radio like Young Joc, or E-40's new stuff, Franchise Boys, stuff like that. So anyway, I wanted to try and expose them to some of what I consider to be real hip-hop. Because to me, real hip-hop involves great lyrics, so I wanted to play them something really lyrical. I decided to pull out a concept song.
I played Common's "I Used To Love Her" track. It failed to have any impact on them. They thought the song was about a woman, and by the time Common indicates to the listener that the woman is a metaphor for hip-hop their short, abbrievated tension spans had long forgotten the song was even playing. I had to later explain to them what the song was talking about, which took the piss out of the whole thing.
I think it went way over their heads, I think these kids only understand basic lyrics about money or sex, two of the most basic desires.
To me it seems that if they were into that "mainstream vibe" you cant go from something with simple lyrics to something really deep like common. Kinda like learnin to stand before u crawl, they just started and not yet ready for deep lirycal meanning. If u wanna help just try to spark the interest, not enforce it. Cuz in the end they choose what they wanna hear.
When i was like in 4th-5th grade all i could do was record songs on tape from the radio beacuse of cost of cds (and the parents :P). SO all i knew about rap was wateva the radio played (coolio, ll cool j, etc). Then i heard my cousins wu-tang tape (enter the wu) and it just sounded different from what i was use to (from the radio) and it just sparked real interest. She gave it to me as a gift along with odb's "return of the 36 chambers" and ever since then ive been a "real" hip hop fan just cuz i was able to see what else is out there and not just bump wateva the radio plays.
Alot of people have proven that everyone finds "true" hip hop in their own ways. So inorder to help with their direction simply just play what u llike when u around them but dont bother explaing it unless they ask because at that age they already hate school,IMO.
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You just gotta know your audience man. When I introduce Hip Hop to peeps, I'm consciously thinking on how I can play to their ear. From production style, rap style, tempo, subject matter, it's all crucial to know who you're dealing with. For instance, my pops is 55 years old. If I want to show him why I think Tupac was a dope artist, I'm not gonna bust out Hit Em Up. I'm gonna give him something less edgy, and something that he can hear harmonies / melodies and sing / hum along too. A song like "Skandalouz" - a nice, laid back, jazz / funk song with a great hook. That's something he can relate to, because those elements are prevalent in the style of music he listens too.
If I'm dealing with a 14 year old that thinks 50 cent is God's gift to hip hop, then I might play Hit Em Up. Let them hear the raw emotion / gun talk / disses. That song would probably blow their mind.
So, I hear you about peeps not knowing and apparently not caring about some of the classics. But I think they can be shown the light if done the correct way. I've introduced countless people to Hip Hop that would have never picked it up on their own.
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I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam,
LMALOAMLAMAL @ you putting cam in the same group as Illmatic and old school cube
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I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam,
LMALOAMLAMAL @ you putting cam in the same group as Illmatic and old school cube
I think he was talking about KAM, not CAM.
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I Remember My Brother Putting Me Up On Some West Coast Shit Early On. Like Rodney O, CMW, Dj Quik, Shit Like That. I Owe Him Big Time.
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I was listenin to dr. dre and snoop dogg for like 4 years maybe and lots of gangster shit but then this guy who used to post here told me about some underground stuff, after that, Ive been listenin to it ever since, so Ive got him to thank really.. haha havnt hardly touched any of my mainstream/gangster albums for looong time now either..
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I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam,
LMALOAMLAMAL @ you putting cam in the same group as Illmatic and old school cube
Please take a frying pan and bash your brains in...
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I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam,
LMALOAMLAMAL @ you putting cam in the same group as Illmatic and old school cube
I think he was talking about KAM, not CAM.
Me too. And even so all Sikotic said was that he let him hear them not that he let him hear 'the reatest rappers ever' or whatever.
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LMAO if you don't know the difference between Kam and Cam don't ever enter a Forum dedicated to westcoast rap.
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Times Change Niggas, Aren't You Tired Of Older Cats Telling You Rap Music Isn't Music? Shit's Just Evolving. Which For Muslims Like Bryan, Is A Threat To Their Way Of Life
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I was exposing him to some Nas' Illmatic, old skool Cube, Kam,
LMALOAMLAMAL @ you putting cam in the same group as Illmatic and old school cube
Looks like jokes on you, clown. I'm not your resident wanna-be blood or cuzzo on this forum. When I use a "C", I mean a "C". When I use a "K", I mean a "K".
Kam as in Brother Kam from Watts, ya okie doke muthafucka, not Cam as in Cam'ron from Harlem. Catch up on ya Sesame Street, son.
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The shit they play on the radio man is horrible. I don't see how any of it even gets airtime. The only reason they get spins is because they forcefeed you shit. Record company pays clear channel to play that shit because they want to market their artist. there is no talent involed its all $$$$
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don't get your pussies wet over this
so I thought he was talking about cam instead of Kam because he has dip all over his sig
but now we talking about Kam, what I said still holds
SMH @ anyone thinking he was on Nas and Cube's level
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I just finished Dave Chappelle's Block Party (for the 200th time)... "TURN OFF THE RADIO... TURN OFF THAT BULLSHIT"!!!!!!!!
All these guy are so talented lyricly wise and musicly wise... It's a shame they don't get that much recognition from the mainstream...
IMO this is the REAL hip-hop...
All the other "rappers" who have nothing to say better than "Shoulder Lean" and "Right Turrrr" and "Get Low", should be classified as "hip-pop"!!!!!!
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I just finished Dave Chappelle's Block Party (for the 200th time)... "TURN OFF THE RADIO... TURN OFF THAT BULLSHIT"!!!!!!!!
All these guy are so talented lyricly wise and musicly wise... It's a shame they don't get that much recognition from the mainstream...
IMO this is the REAL hip-hop...
All the other "rappers" who have nothing to say better than "Shoulder Lean" and "Right Turrrr" and "Get Low", should be classified as "hip-pop"!!!!!!
word ...
DCs block party was so much FUN (ACTUAL FUN!) to watch end seeing all these great emcees and vocalists and musicians together HAVING FUN without having a mean expression on their face or talking bullshit ... THAT IS HIPHOP ...
watch that and BROWN SUGAR ...
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you got to understand one thing
they are kids still , that's the main underlining italisized fact. KIDS
when i was a kid i use to listen to everything my dad listend to, but i didn't really appreciate it, but what really got my hair to rise on the back of my neck was MC Hammer , 2 Legit 2 quit, The Ninja Rap by Vanilla Ice and some Ninja Turtles Live tape i got from pizza hut. i bumped that shit 3 million and a half times a day. Then i started liking gangster rap (all the shit we talk about here) it opened my eyes to the reality of what was happening just right outside of my door , and i grew because i knew my environment better. then when i was about 12-13 years old i discovered (or really rediscovered) Metal music , Metallica became like God to me and i was blown away with their technical abilities....i grew away from the basic sounds of hip hop . Now i can sit here and listen to Toccata and Fugue in D minor and enjoy it
you see it's all about growth from a kid to a man. Hip Hop in my eyes will always be a genre mainly for people in their teens and early to mid 20's . yes there will be people older who listen to this and such but mainly it's going to be people stuck in that young mindset OR people following artists who CAN grow in their music as well.
most hip hop is disposable anyways ......kids today will look back in 5 years and laugh at what they USE to listen to . I do , and everyone of my friends do, and everyone i've ever known in my life do. Yes there will be songs that will be remembered. you play stairway to heaven today it's just as big as it was in 72' . just like there are Pac songs that were made in 95' that are still played today. But the point here is Most of this music is meant to have a short shelf life, it's meant to be played for 3 months in a club so people like SGV can get that quick fix of euphoria. It's only until you grow in your mindset to you learn to appreciate better music.
heres another example:
how many of us here use to watch Duck Tales, Rescue Rangers, Power Rangers, and Ninja Turtles? Back in the Day those stories were FUCKING INTENSE and DRAMATIC HUH? IF mom or dad put on the godfather....we'd be bored as fuck and crash the hell out wouldn't we? But that's when we had child's mindset . Now ....most of us can sit there and enjoy 3 hours of the Godfather, Citizen kane, ect. IT's growth
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Shit I started off with shit like Young MC and MC Hammer back in the day, then I gravitated towards Public Enemy and it was all over after that.
The difference between now and back then is that the mainstream stuff is so easily accessible. Back then, there were maybe 4 or 5 rap songs that were played on the radio at any given time period, so if you wanted to hear more, you had to search for it. Nowadays, mainstream rap is so huge and diluted that it's everywhere. There's no need for kids to dig deeper to find the real shit.
That's really how I see it. I started out with Run-DMC, LL Cool J, Fat Boys, Newcleus, etc...all of whom were looked upon as "hip-pop". It was only later that I started getting into Boogie Down Productions, Public Enemy, Ice-T, N.W.A., and all of the hardcore/gangsta rappers of the late-80s. Of course, once I did that, I started acting like I'd never listened to the hip-pop of my earlier years and bashed Young MC, Hammer, Vanilla Ice, etc. cause that's what was trendy to do.
As far as I'm concerned, though, what's changed is that (1.) Hip-hop is more accessible than ever and (2.) There's far more thug posturing in the mainstream and underground alike. Anyone who says shit like, "Hip-hop today" sucks obviously wasn't around for all the shit that came out in the 80s and 90s. It will always be ironic to me that on DubCC, nobody appreciates that G-Funk was considered a "pop" rap sound in the mid-90s, and if you were doing G-Funk, you were automatically respected less.
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These kids I know around 14 and 15 years old are always rapping songs on the radio like Young Joc, or E-40's new stuff, Franchise Boys, stuff like that. So anyway, I wanted to try and expose them to some of what I consider to be real hip-hop. Because to me, real hip-hop involves great lyrics, so I wanted to play them something really lyrical. I decided to pull out a concept song.
I played Common's "I Used To Love Her" track. It failed to have any impact on them. They thought the song was about a woman, and by the time Common indicates to the listener that the woman is a metaphor for hip-hop their short, abbrievated tension spans had long forgotten the song was even playing. I had to later explain to them what the song was talking about, which took the piss out of the whole thing.
I think it went way over their heads, I think these kids only understand basic lyrics about money or sex, two of the most basic desires.
First of all, I bet you're lying. You've lied before.
Second, I work on a college campus. Many white kids I see are listening as much to "conscious" stuff as the thug stuff. This whole "backpacker" movement is the same as the thug-pop shit...an attempt to make hip-hop palatable to white suburban kids.
Third, many rappers you've praised (most recently, Crucial Conflict) rap only about money, sex, and violence...that makes you a hypocrite.
Fourth, I have told you before that converting to Islam and being an apologist to Farrakhan will not earn you any special respect. You are still white, and when Judgment Day comes, you will still have to perish along with the other white devils. You are inherently devilish and cannot be reformed.
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but now we talking about Kam, what I said still holds
SMH @ anyone thinking he was on Nas and Cube's level
Well, I agree with you. I never said Kam was on Nas and Cube's level. That wasn't the point of this thread. Those just happened to be 3 of the artist's I was exposing to my brother at the time.
It's like you didn't even read what I said. You saw my avitar, sig, the word "Kam", and busted a nut all over your monitor. But, hey, keep hatin', it only makes you look like an idiot.
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but now we talking about Kam, what I said still holds
SMH @ anyone thinking he was on Nas and Cube's level
Well, I agree with you. I never said Kam was on Nas and Cube's level. That wasn't the point of this thread. Those just happened to be 3 of the artist's I was exposing to my brother at the time.
It's like you didn't even read what I said. You saw my avitar, sig, the word "Kam", and busted a nut all over your monitor. But, hey, keep hatin', it only makes you look like an idiot.
haha at "busted a nut all over your monitor."